Cryptic missed the boat in my opinion They could have charged a premium for mac client use. LTS could have had an extra 100 bucks on the tag I know I would have paid. For the players who don't want to cough up the extra Benjamin the instead of free to play it could have has a $3.99 charge per month for the OS X client. there are games on the App Store that are "free" that people pay way way more than that per month and get Waaaay less content.
You've decided that there are enough Mac players to pay for that, year in and year out.
Cryptic has a much better idea than you or I do of how many Mac players there are, and how much they are spending now. They like money. They decided they would lose money not make money. They are more likely to be right about that than you are.
Do you play on Mac? Do you work for Cryptic? Why do you care if I am right or not? my opinion or speculation does not affect you! Do you have the idea in your head that anyone on this thread is advocating canceling the windows client in favor of the mac? We all know how much Apple stuff costs. I know its not the likely solution for everyone. Its better than PC but not always ideal. My solution offers a way for the Mac users to pay their own way. So if they like money so much what sense does it make to cut of part of your revenue base. This is a result of the Free to Play model. Revenues are based on in game purchase and LTS. What do you wana bet that monthly subs are down. Has nothing to do with how much Mac users play or spend. Well guess what now all of those monthly subs are going to go back to WOW.
You do realize you didn't actually refute any of my points?
Just because some people will pay extra for an iPhone or Mac, does not mean several thousand of them will pay $50 a year to fund development of a Mac client, especially when the Windows client is free.
Cryptic is a business. They look at the projected revenue from Mac players, compare it to the projected development costs, and (apparently) see that the result will be a loss.
Apple no longer makes iPod Classics. I like mine and would buy another when mine dies. Apple is not a charity for iPod fans so they aren't going to keep the manufacturing lines running just for me. That's life.
Cryptic missed the boat in my opinion They could have charged a premium for mac client use. LTS could have had an extra 100 bucks on the tag I know I would have paid. For the players who don't want to cough up the extra Benjamin the instead of free to play it could have has a $3.99 charge per month for the OS X client. there are games on the App Store that are "free" that people pay way way more than that per month and get Waaaay less content.
You've decided that there are enough Mac players to pay for that, year in and year out.
Cryptic has a much better idea than you or I do of how many Mac players there are, and how much they are spending now. They like money. They decided they would lose money not make money. They are more likely to be right about that than you are.
Do you play on Mac? Do you work for Cryptic? Why do you care if I am right or not? my opinion or speculation does not affect you! Do you have the idea in your head that anyone on this thread is advocating canceling the windows client in favor of the mac? We all know how much Apple stuff costs. I know its not the likely solution for everyone. Its better than PC but not always ideal. My solution offers a way for the Mac users to pay their own way. So if they like money so much what sense does it make to cut of part of your revenue base. This is a result of the Free to Play model. Revenues are based on in game purchase and LTS. What do you wana bet that monthly subs are down. Has nothing to do with how much Mac users play or spend. Well guess what now all of those monthly subs are going to go back to WOW.
You do realize you didn't actually refute any of my points?
Just because some people will pay extra for an iPhone or Mac, does not mean several thousand of them will pay $50 a year to fund development of a Mac client, especially when the Windows client is free.
Cryptic is a business. They look at the projected revenue from Mac players, compare it to the projected development costs, and (apparently) see that the result will be a loss.
Apple no longer makes iPod Classics. I like mine and would buy another when mine dies. Apple is not a charity for iPod fans so they aren't going to keep the manufacturing lines running just for me. That's life.
Since when is it my job to refute any of your points that are based in conjecture and guess work. Your not a Mac user so how would you know what a mac users is willing to cough up to play in native OS X. Good try with the iPod classic reference but this is not manufacturing this is simply porting code from one OS to another which the developer "was" doing and for what ever reason stopped doing it. You know what, I want to play on my Mac. Could I play on widows sure but I don't want to put on a ton of TRIBBLE anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months. I used to build PCs for fun. I used to OC graphic cards (then burn them out ) so I would have an excuse to go buy a new one. Then I grew up. It became not fun any more. It became work. Not to mention the family I support. I bought my first Mac in 2009 and I still have it, was playing this very game on it. Just upgraded to a new 15inch. Was looking forward to playing the game in this one too. You windows apologists should just be happy you can still play. I however am not going to be able too. I think you all should respond with the same post.
"WOW! Cryptic are a bunch of dicks for killing the Mac client. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope they bring it back soon."
That would make you all sound a lot less snobby. Even if you don't mean it. It would make us feel better to hear it. You never know there may be a player that you were in a fleet with or did STF with that you will be cruising along one day and say "hey whatever happened to". Your right though that's life. So when someone swings their car door too hard and scratches your car would you like your friends to all in unison say "that's life, just buy another car."?
You claim windows gets ridic numbers of viruses? Never had that problem. But I actually understand internet security.
Also, the Mac client was actually being run in emulation mode, but it was an official install package to do so, there has never been a STO client actually coded to work on Mac. So no they did not actually port the code. And if you really want to play on a Mac... you still have the option to run the game via emulation.
Cryptic missed the boat in my opinion They could have charged a premium for mac client use. LTS could have had an extra 100 bucks on the tag I know I would have paid. For the players who don't want to cough up the extra Benjamin the instead of free to play it could have has a $3.99 charge per month for the OS X client. there are games on the App Store that are "free" that people pay way way more than that per month and get Waaaay less content.
You've decided that there are enough Mac players to pay for that, year in and year out.
Cryptic has a much better idea than you or I do of how many Mac players there are, and how much they are spending now. They like money. They decided they would lose money not make money. They are more likely to be right about that than you are.
Do you play on Mac? Do you work for Cryptic? Why do you care if I am right or not? my opinion or speculation does not affect you! Do you have the idea in your head that anyone on this thread is advocating canceling the windows client in favor of the mac? We all know how much Apple stuff costs. I know its not the likely solution for everyone. Its better than PC but not always ideal. My solution offers a way for the Mac users to pay their own way. So if they like money so much what sense does it make to cut of part of your revenue base. This is a result of the Free to Play model. Revenues are based on in game purchase and LTS. What do you wana bet that monthly subs are down. Has nothing to do with how much Mac users play or spend. Well guess what now all of those monthly subs are going to go back to WOW.
You do realize you didn't actually refute any of my points?
Just because some people will pay extra for an iPhone or Mac, does not mean several thousand of them will pay $50 a year to fund development of a Mac client, especially when the Windows client is free.
Cryptic is a business. They look at the projected revenue from Mac players, compare it to the projected development costs, and (apparently) see that the result will be a loss.
Apple no longer makes iPod Classics. I like mine and would buy another when mine dies. Apple is not a charity for iPod fans so they aren't going to keep the manufacturing lines running just for me. That's life.
Since when is it my job to refute any of your points that are based in conjecture and guess work. Your not a Mac user so how would you know what a mac users is willing to cough up to play in native OS X. Good try with the iPod classic reference but this is not manufacturing this is simply porting code from one OS to another which the developer "was" doing and for what ever reason stopped doing it. You know what, I want to play on my Mac. Could I play on widows sure but I don't want to put on a ton of TRIBBLE anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months. I used to build PCs for fun. I used to OC graphic cards (then burn them out ) so I would have an excuse to go buy a new one. Then I grew up. It became not fun any more. It became work. Not to mention the family I support. I bought my first Mac in 2009 and I still have it, was playing this very game on it. Just upgraded to a new 15inch. Was looking forward to playing the game in this one too. You windows apologists should just be happy you can still play. I however am not going to be able too. I think you all should respond with the same post.
"WOW! Cryptic are a bunch of dicks for killing the Mac client. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope they bring it back soon."
That would make you all sound a lot less snobby. Even if you don't mean it. It would make us feel better to hear it. You never know there may be a player that you were in a fleet with or did STF with that you will be cruising along one day and say "hey whatever happened to". Your right though that's life. So when someone swings their car door too hard and scratches your car would you like your friends to all in unison say "that's life, just buy another car."?
I know what Mac users are willing to cough up to play in native OSX: not enough to justify supporting a separate client. Is it really that difficult for you to accept that buying an overpriced Unix box does not make you special? OSX machines represent a tiny share of the market.
What do you mean, "for whatever reason"? They were doing it, it cost too much for the profits it generated, so they stopped. Perfectly understandable, for most people.
If you had to load up your PC with AV software and reformat every six months, I guess it was a pretty reasonable idea to move to Mac. You obviously couldn't handle it. I built my current PC in 2009, used to run some virus scanners out of caution, but now I just stick with Windows default stuff and don't get viruses. I did do an "erase and install" in 2014... friends were raging at me to stop using an end-of-lifed OS (XP), and I was getting tired of running a 32-bit OS. 8.1 has been quite nice. Getting a machine that is much more limited in what software it can run just because some of that software is bad and you don't know how to avoid it seems like kind of a drastic measure.
What exactly is an upgrade about the 15" model? Better CPU? More RAM? It can't possibly be screen size alone - that's basically an oversized iPad. I was using a 19" monitor over a decade ago, and would no longer consider using anything less than my current setup of dual 22" (which seems to be pretty standard these days).
Cryptic are a bunch of reasonable businesspeople for killing a product that didn't generate enough revenue. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope you accept reality soon.
I like how a Mac user is calling others "snobby." The whole point of buying a Mac is so you can lord it over others. Ooo, a rounded rectangle! Totally worth a couple grand.
Cryptic did not damage or remove any of your property. They are not required to provide you with the exact free services you desire. And is it really that necessary in the first place? If you built PCs in the last ten years, you surely have a copy of a Windows OS that can run STO. Is it that much of a hassle to dual-boot? You could even run a VM of Windows, which Microsoft provides for free.
I really don't care about cryptic finances or revenues. This was a game i got an LTS for the week of launch. I am one of the founding LTS subscribers. I grew up in this universe I feel like it was taken from me.
Cryptic missed the boat in my opinion They could have charged a premium for mac client use. LTS could have had an extra 100 bucks on the tag I know I would have paid. For the players who don't want to cough up the extra Benjamin the instead of free to play it could have has a $3.99 charge per month for the OS X client. there are games on the App Store that are "free" that people pay way way more than that per month and get Waaaay less content.
You've decided that there are enough Mac players to pay for that, year in and year out.
Cryptic has a much better idea than you or I do of how many Mac players there are, and how much they are spending now. They like money. They decided they would lose money not make money. They are more likely to be right about that than you are.
Do you play on Mac? Do you work for Cryptic? Why do you care if I am right or not? my opinion or speculation does not affect you! Do you have the idea in your head that anyone on this thread is advocating canceling the windows client in favor of the mac? We all know how much Apple stuff costs. I know its not the likely solution for everyone. Its better than PC but not always ideal. My solution offers a way for the Mac users to pay their own way. So if they like money so much what sense does it make to cut of part of your revenue base. This is a result of the Free to Play model. Revenues are based on in game purchase and LTS. What do you wana bet that monthly subs are down. Has nothing to do with how much Mac users play or spend. Well guess what now all of those monthly subs are going to go back to WOW.
You do realize you didn't actually refute any of my points?
Just because some people will pay extra for an iPhone or Mac, does not mean several thousand of them will pay $50 a year to fund development of a Mac client, especially when the Windows client is free.
Cryptic is a business. They look at the projected revenue from Mac players, compare it to the projected development costs, and (apparently) see that the result will be a loss.
Apple no longer makes iPod Classics. I like mine and would buy another when mine dies. Apple is not a charity for iPod fans so they aren't going to keep the manufacturing lines running just for me. That's life.
Since when is it my job to refute any of your points that are based in conjecture and guess work. Your not a Mac user so how would you know what a mac users is willing to cough up to play in native OS X. Good try with the iPod classic reference but this is not manufacturing this is simply porting code from one OS to another which the developer "was" doing and for what ever reason stopped doing it. You know what, I want to play on my Mac. Could I play on widows sure but I don't want to put on a ton of TRIBBLE anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months. I used to build PCs for fun. I used to OC graphic cards (then burn them out ) so I would have an excuse to go buy a new one. Then I grew up. It became not fun any more. It became work. Not to mention the family I support. I bought my first Mac in 2009 and I still have it, was playing this very game on it. Just upgraded to a new 15inch. Was looking forward to playing the game in this one too. You windows apologists should just be happy you can still play. I however am not going to be able too. I think you all should respond with the same post.
"WOW! Cryptic are a bunch of dicks for killing the Mac client. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope they bring it back soon."
That would make you all sound a lot less snobby. Even if you don't mean it. It would make us feel better to hear it. You never know there may be a player that you were in a fleet with or did STF with that you will be cruising along one day and say "hey whatever happened to". Your right though that's life. So when someone swings their car door too hard and scratches your car would you like your friends to all in unison say "that's life, just buy another car."?
I know what Mac users are willing to cough up to play in native OSX: not enough to justify supporting a separate client. Is it really that difficult for you to accept that buying an overpriced Unix box does not make you special? OSX machines represent a tiny share of the market.
What do you mean, "for whatever reason"? They were doing it, it cost too much for the profits it generated, so they stopped. Perfectly understandable, for most people.
If you had to load up your PC with AV software and reformat every six months, I guess it was a pretty reasonable idea to move to Mac. You obviously couldn't handle it. I built my current PC in 2009, used to run some virus scanners out of caution, but now I just stick with Windows default stuff and don't get viruses. I did do an "erase and install" in 2014... friends were raging at me to stop using an end-of-lifed OS (XP), and I was getting tired of running a 32-bit OS. 8.1 has been quite nice. Getting a machine that is much more limited in what software it can run just because some of that software is bad and you don't know how to avoid it seems like kind of a drastic measure.
What exactly is an upgrade about the 15" model? Better CPU? More RAM? It can't possibly be screen size alone - that's basically an oversized iPad. I was using a 19" monitor over a decade ago, and would no longer consider using anything less than my current setup of dual 22" (which seems to be pretty standard these days).
Cryptic are a bunch of reasonable businesspeople for killing a product that didn't generate enough revenue. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope you accept reality soon.
I like how a Mac user is calling others "snobby." The whole point of buying a Mac is so you can lord it over others. Ooo, a rounded rectangle! Totally worth a couple grand.
Cryptic did not damage or remove any of your property. They are not required to provide you with the exact free services you desire. And is it really that necessary in the first place? If you built PCs in the last ten years, you surely have a copy of a Windows OS that can run STO. Is it that much of a hassle to dual-boot? You could even run a VM of Windows, which Microsoft provides for free.
No your right they did not.... However, you are still defending the decision like they were some how protecting the sanctity of windows or proving something that you knew all along supporting OS X in any way is some kind of insult. If you knew how *** VM does gaming because it can't leverage the graphics card. Just own that this does not affect you. It affects CUSTOMERS who were paying for a product that they can't use. Typical lack of understanding or empathy. So if it makes you feel better your all absolutely right I should accept reality. I personally don't lord anything over anyone. The users on this board have been from what I read seem to be taking some strange pleasure in the Mac client getting killed. I was simply giving some options on how it could have been saved. What was the response, "just accept its dead" or "Mac users don't spend money" or "thats life" or "Apple Sucks" or "cryptic is awesome and who ever questions is a enemy" or "your overpriced round rectangle is way worth it". What I still don't understand is why this thread has so many respondents that don't have Mac or have never used Macs. Its like you all wanted to kick us on the way out. I have no ill will toward windows I just don't like it anymore that's my choice. If you like it great. But don't treat me like I am dumb or any less a game than you because I choose a different OS that you. NOW I'M DONE....
You claim windows gets ridic numbers of viruses? Never had that problem. But I actually understand internet security.
Also, the Mac client was actually being run in emulation mode, but it was an official install package to do so, there has never been a STO client actually coded to work on Mac. So no they did not actually port the code. And if you really want to play on a Mac... you still have the option to run the game via emulation.
A very astute observation. Your right there are ways to reduce the virus risk on windows but I have already made the switch several years ago (2009). I tried the emulation mode, Even got a free copy of Parallels (work perk from Apple) but sadly none of the virtualization options in on the market support use of the GPU. So the 2GB AMD I have in this "overpriced rounded rectangle" would not work. Dual-boot is an option but I have others to think about (wife). She does YouTube video blogs and need to use FCP X fairly regular. Would not be fair to her making it harder for her to edit. Did have an Idea to get a Flash drive external with thunderbolt make that bootable and just shutdown and unplug it when I am done but that too would be more $$ and hassle.
It is too bad there aren't enough Mac players of STO to support a Mac client. I have nothing against Macs, and do own an iPod.
But that's reality: Mac users as a group in STO are not plentiful enough to justify continuing to offer the client. That's not an insult to any individual Mac user, that's not saying anything about how much each of you are willing to pay. There just aren't enough of you.
STO has a smaller user base than WoW, and Macs have 1/15 the market share of Windows. Put that together and it's much harder for Cryptic to make the numbers work than Blizzard.
I really don't care about cryptic finances or revenues. This was a game i got an LTS for the week of launch. I am one of the founding LTS subscribers. I grew up in this universe I feel like it was taken from me.
Cryptic missed the boat in my opinion They could have charged a premium for mac client use. LTS could have had an extra 100 bucks on the tag I know I would have paid. For the players who don't want to cough up the extra Benjamin the instead of free to play it could have has a $3.99 charge per month for the OS X client. there are games on the App Store that are "free" that people pay way way more than that per month and get Waaaay less content.
You've decided that there are enough Mac players to pay for that, year in and year out.
Cryptic has a much better idea than you or I do of how many Mac players there are, and how much they are spending now. They like money. They decided they would lose money not make money. They are more likely to be right about that than you are.
Do you play on Mac? Do you work for Cryptic? Why do you care if I am right or not? my opinion or speculation does not affect you! Do you have the idea in your head that anyone on this thread is advocating canceling the windows client in favor of the mac? We all know how much Apple stuff costs. I know its not the likely solution for everyone. Its better than PC but not always ideal. My solution offers a way for the Mac users to pay their own way. So if they like money so much what sense does it make to cut of part of your revenue base. This is a result of the Free to Play model. Revenues are based on in game purchase and LTS. What do you wana bet that monthly subs are down. Has nothing to do with how much Mac users play or spend. Well guess what now all of those monthly subs are going to go back to WOW.
You do realize you didn't actually refute any of my points?
Just because some people will pay extra for an iPhone or Mac, does not mean several thousand of them will pay $50 a year to fund development of a Mac client, especially when the Windows client is free.
Cryptic is a business. They look at the projected revenue from Mac players, compare it to the projected development costs, and (apparently) see that the result will be a loss.
Apple no longer makes iPod Classics. I like mine and would buy another when mine dies. Apple is not a charity for iPod fans so they aren't going to keep the manufacturing lines running just for me. That's life.
Since when is it my job to refute any of your points that are based in conjecture and guess work. Your not a Mac user so how would you know what a mac users is willing to cough up to play in native OS X. Good try with the iPod classic reference but this is not manufacturing this is simply porting code from one OS to another which the developer "was" doing and for what ever reason stopped doing it. You know what, I want to play on my Mac. Could I play on widows sure but I don't want to put on a ton of TRIBBLE anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months. I used to build PCs for fun. I used to OC graphic cards (then burn them out ) so I would have an excuse to go buy a new one. Then I grew up. It became not fun any more. It became work. Not to mention the family I support. I bought my first Mac in 2009 and I still have it, was playing this very game on it. Just upgraded to a new 15inch. Was looking forward to playing the game in this one too. You windows apologists should just be happy you can still play. I however am not going to be able too. I think you all should respond with the same post.
"WOW! Cryptic are a bunch of dicks for killing the Mac client. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope they bring it back soon."
That would make you all sound a lot less snobby. Even if you don't mean it. It would make us feel better to hear it. You never know there may be a player that you were in a fleet with or did STF with that you will be cruising along one day and say "hey whatever happened to". Your right though that's life. So when someone swings their car door too hard and scratches your car would you like your friends to all in unison say "that's life, just buy another car."?
I know what Mac users are willing to cough up to play in native OSX: not enough to justify supporting a separate client. Is it really that difficult for you to accept that buying an overpriced Unix box does not make you special? OSX machines represent a tiny share of the market.
What do you mean, "for whatever reason"? They were doing it, it cost too much for the profits it generated, so they stopped. Perfectly understandable, for most people.
If you had to load up your PC with AV software and reformat every six months, I guess it was a pretty reasonable idea to move to Mac. You obviously couldn't handle it. I built my current PC in 2009, used to run some virus scanners out of caution, but now I just stick with Windows default stuff and don't get viruses. I did do an "erase and install" in 2014... friends were raging at me to stop using an end-of-lifed OS (XP), and I was getting tired of running a 32-bit OS. 8.1 has been quite nice. Getting a machine that is much more limited in what software it can run just because some of that software is bad and you don't know how to avoid it seems like kind of a drastic measure.
What exactly is an upgrade about the 15" model? Better CPU? More RAM? It can't possibly be screen size alone - that's basically an oversized iPad. I was using a 19" monitor over a decade ago, and would no longer consider using anything less than my current setup of dual 22" (which seems to be pretty standard these days).
Cryptic are a bunch of reasonable businesspeople for killing a product that didn't generate enough revenue. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope you accept reality soon.
I like how a Mac user is calling others "snobby." The whole point of buying a Mac is so you can lord it over others. Ooo, a rounded rectangle! Totally worth a couple grand.
Cryptic did not damage or remove any of your property. They are not required to provide you with the exact free services you desire. And is it really that necessary in the first place? If you built PCs in the last ten years, you surely have a copy of a Windows OS that can run STO. Is it that much of a hassle to dual-boot? You could even run a VM of Windows, which Microsoft provides for free.
No your right they did not.... However, you are still defending the decision like they were some how protecting the sanctity of windows or proving something that you knew all along supporting OS X in any way is some kind of insult. If you knew how *** VM does gaming because it can't leverage the graphics card. Just own that this does not affect you. It affects CUSTOMERS who were paying for a product that they can't use. Typical lack of understanding or empathy. So if it makes you feel better your all absolutely right I should accept reality. I personally don't lord anything over anyone. The users on this board have been from what I read seem to be taking some strange pleasure in the Mac client getting killed. I was simply giving some options on how it could have been saved. What was the response, "just accept its dead" or "Mac users don't spend money" or "thats life" or "Apple Sucks" or "cryptic is awesome and who ever questions is a enemy" or "your overpriced round rectangle is way worth it". What I still don't understand is why this thread has so many respondents that don't have Mac or have never used Macs. Its like you all wanted to kick us on the way out. I have no ill will toward windows I just don't like it anymore that's my choice. If you like it great. But don't treat me like I am dumb or any less a game than you because I choose a different OS that you. NOW I'M DONE....
If you don't care about Cryptic's finances, why should they care about yours? They were tired of wasting resources. Either spend the ZERO DOLLARS IT WOULD COST YOU and dual boot, or deal with it.
I'm defending the decision because it's perfectly reasonable. I don't see why you think a company should waste time and money on something just because you're too lazy to do something as simple as dual-boot. It's incredibly self-centered of you.
Yes, you're such a hardcore gamer that you switched to a platform that hardly runs any games. Very wise of you.
You have Windows. You have a computer that can run Windows. Dual-boot and stop complaining about a non-issue.
Cryptic/PWE have shown what they think of the MAC player base in not only removing support for that platform. But by also refusing to honour the LTS and Zen refunds promised in the closure statement. That i have big issues with particularly the LTS.
I don't know the technobabble of the Official MAC Client but seeings as there are 3rd parties out there like PlayOnMac that allow you to run Star Trek Online and other Windows applications in it and the software is free and it is emulation software i can't see much difference in what Cryptic/PWE were offering. As the game was not officially ported and coded to MAC, we were using a Wine wrapper, emulation software to run Star Trek Online downloaded from their site. I'm sure those more technically savvy than me can explain and point out any flaws in my statement and i'll be happy to read them so my knowledge is enhanced a little
However if you want to continue playing use a workaround like i have its not ideal but i'm able to continue playing, or be braver than me and walk away.
But by also refusing to honour the LTS and Zen refunds promised in the closure statement. That i have big issues with particularly the LTS.
Yeah, that's the only issue I really have, is the refusal to honor the commitment they made on the reimbursements. Macs are doing well — market share is up to about 10%, and it's pretty much the only company seeing increasing PC sales while the market as a whole contracts. But they're building with mobile chipsets to save power and size, and Metal is a whole new API. So I can get a small team not being able to support it.
But failing to put together an accurate list of Mac users for the reimbursements? That's just terrible.
Either spend the ZERO DOLLARS IT WOULD COST YOU and dual boot, or deal with it.
I'm defending the decision because it's perfectly reasonable. I don't see why you think a company should waste time and money on something just because you're too lazy to do something as simple as dual-boot. It's incredibly self-centered of you.
Yes, you're such a hardcore gamer that you switched to a platform that hardly runs any games. Very wise of you.
You have Windows. You have a computer that can run Windows. Dual-boot and stop complaining about a non-issue.[/quote]
Since when is Windows free? I am pretty sure you still have to pay for that. I know the upgrade version from Windows 10 is free but I am pretty sure that you needed to have purchased a license of 7 or 8 for that. I might be just a non-gamer stupid Mac user but a am pretty sure that what your advising me to do is piracy (stealing).
Of course i am a stupid Mac user.....
P.S. - MisterFerengi is right it is time to move on. I do appreciate the graphic about bringing support back to ALL PLATFORMS. Its a nice gesture, probably never going to happen but its the thought that counts.
Either spend the ZERO DOLLARS IT WOULD COST YOU and dual boot, or deal with it.
I'm defending the decision because it's perfectly reasonable. I don't see why you think a company should waste time and money on something just because you're too lazy to do something as simple as dual-boot. It's incredibly self-centered of you.
Yes, you're such a hardcore gamer that you switched to a platform that hardly runs any games. Very wise of you.
You have Windows. You have a computer that can run Windows. Dual-boot and stop complaining about a non-issue.
Since when is Windows free? I am pretty sure you still have to pay for that. I know the upgrade version from Windows 10 is free but I am pretty sure that you needed to have purchased a license of 7 or 8 for that. I might be just a non-gamer stupid Mac user but a am pretty sure that what your advising me to do is piracy (stealing).
Of course i am a stupid Mac user.....
P.S. - MisterFerengi is right it is time to move on. I do appreciate the graphic about bringing support back to ALL PLATFORMS. Its a nice gesture, probably never going to happen but its the thought that counts.
You yourself said that you used to build PCs for fun, and got tired of having to "put on a ton of **** anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months." What did you do, throw away all your copies of Windows?
Please learn some reading comprehension before accusing others of encouraging illegal behavior.
Yes. The Mac Client probably cost about the same amount of money to support as the Windows client did, yet made disproportionately less revenue due to low usage. Since we don't have hard numbers, I'll choose to believe that the Cryptic did this because of math and not prejudice.
I don't blame them for killing the Mac client, but "about the same" cost is a comical claim. There's no way there was that much effort in the Mac client.
However, I think it's likely to get a good Mac client, they'd have had to put that much effort in. And with Apple shifting how 3d should be done on the Mac, I agree it wasn't worth the effort.
On the other hand, the console port looks incredibly bad. My kid laughs at the bad graphics every time he sees me playing it. This is not PS4 (or, one assumes, Xbox One) quality.
Yes. The Mac Client probably cost about the same amount of money to support as the Windows client did, yet made disproportionately less revenue due to low usage. Since we don't have hard numbers, I'll choose to believe that the Cryptic did this because of math and not prejudice.
I don't blame them for killing the Mac client, but "about the same" cost is a comical claim. There's no way there was that much effort in the Mac client.
However, I think it's likely to get a good Mac client, they'd have had to put that much effort in. And with Apple shifting how 3d should be done on the Mac, I agree it wasn't worth the effort.
On the other hand, the console port looks incredibly bad. My kid laughs at the bad graphics every time he sees me playing it. This is not PS4 (or, one assumes, Xbox One) quality.
You're a bit late to the party.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Yeah. I read through this thread way back and managed not to comment, but I thought I'd read through it again in light of the Console release and see if the choices made more sense. I think they did. And I think the existing Mac client was worthless, and a new Mac client would have been a rewrite rather than a wrapper.
But that one statement about similar costs still irked me.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Comments
You do realize you didn't actually refute any of my points?
Just because some people will pay extra for an iPhone or Mac, does not mean several thousand of them will pay $50 a year to fund development of a Mac client, especially when the Windows client is free.
Cryptic is a business. They look at the projected revenue from Mac players, compare it to the projected development costs, and (apparently) see that the result will be a loss.
Apple no longer makes iPod Classics. I like mine and would buy another when mine dies. Apple is not a charity for iPod fans so they aren't going to keep the manufacturing lines running just for me. That's life.
Since when is it my job to refute any of your points that are based in conjecture and guess work. Your not a Mac user so how would you know what a mac users is willing to cough up to play in native OS X. Good try with the iPod classic reference but this is not manufacturing this is simply porting code from one OS to another which the developer "was" doing and for what ever reason stopped doing it. You know what, I want to play on my Mac. Could I play on widows sure but I don't want to put on a ton of TRIBBLE anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months. I used to build PCs for fun. I used to OC graphic cards (then burn them out ) so I would have an excuse to go buy a new one. Then I grew up. It became not fun any more. It became work. Not to mention the family I support. I bought my first Mac in 2009 and I still have it, was playing this very game on it. Just upgraded to a new 15inch. Was looking forward to playing the game in this one too. You windows apologists should just be happy you can still play. I however am not going to be able too. I think you all should respond with the same post.
"WOW! Cryptic are a bunch of dicks for killing the Mac client. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope they bring it back soon."
That would make you all sound a lot less snobby. Even if you don't mean it. It would make us feel better to hear it. You never know there may be a player that you were in a fleet with or did STF with that you will be cruising along one day and say "hey whatever happened to". Your right though that's life. So when someone swings their car door too hard and scratches your car would you like your friends to all in unison say "that's life, just buy another car."?
Also, the Mac client was actually being run in emulation mode, but it was an official install package to do so, there has never been a STO client actually coded to work on Mac. So no they did not actually port the code. And if you really want to play on a Mac... you still have the option to run the game via emulation.
My character Tsin'xing
I know what Mac users are willing to cough up to play in native OSX: not enough to justify supporting a separate client. Is it really that difficult for you to accept that buying an overpriced Unix box does not make you special? OSX machines represent a tiny share of the market.
What do you mean, "for whatever reason"? They were doing it, it cost too much for the profits it generated, so they stopped. Perfectly understandable, for most people.
If you had to load up your PC with AV software and reformat every six months, I guess it was a pretty reasonable idea to move to Mac. You obviously couldn't handle it. I built my current PC in 2009, used to run some virus scanners out of caution, but now I just stick with Windows default stuff and don't get viruses. I did do an "erase and install" in 2014... friends were raging at me to stop using an end-of-lifed OS (XP), and I was getting tired of running a 32-bit OS. 8.1 has been quite nice. Getting a machine that is much more limited in what software it can run just because some of that software is bad and you don't know how to avoid it seems like kind of a drastic measure.
What exactly is an upgrade about the 15" model? Better CPU? More RAM? It can't possibly be screen size alone - that's basically an oversized iPad. I was using a 19" monitor over a decade ago, and would no longer consider using anything less than my current setup of dual 22" (which seems to be pretty standard these days).
Cryptic are a bunch of reasonable businesspeople for killing a product that didn't generate enough revenue. Sorry guys and gals. That is a tough break. I hope you accept reality soon.
I like how a Mac user is calling others "snobby." The whole point of buying a Mac is so you can lord it over others. Ooo, a rounded rectangle! Totally worth a couple grand.
Cryptic did not damage or remove any of your property. They are not required to provide you with the exact free services you desire. And is it really that necessary in the first place? If you built PCs in the last ten years, you surely have a copy of a Windows OS that can run STO. Is it that much of a hassle to dual-boot? You could even run a VM of Windows, which Microsoft provides for free.
No your right they did not.... However, you are still defending the decision like they were some how protecting the sanctity of windows or proving something that you knew all along supporting OS X in any way is some kind of insult. If you knew how *** VM does gaming because it can't leverage the graphics card. Just own that this does not affect you. It affects CUSTOMERS who were paying for a product that they can't use. Typical lack of understanding or empathy. So if it makes you feel better your all absolutely right I should accept reality. I personally don't lord anything over anyone. The users on this board have been from what I read seem to be taking some strange pleasure in the Mac client getting killed. I was simply giving some options on how it could have been saved. What was the response, "just accept its dead" or "Mac users don't spend money" or "thats life" or "Apple Sucks" or "cryptic is awesome and who ever questions is a enemy" or "your overpriced round rectangle is way worth it". What I still don't understand is why this thread has so many respondents that don't have Mac or have never used Macs. Its like you all wanted to kick us on the way out. I have no ill will toward windows I just don't like it anymore that's my choice. If you like it great. But don't treat me like I am dumb or any less a game than you because I choose a different OS that you. NOW I'M DONE....
A very astute observation. Your right there are ways to reduce the virus risk on windows but I have already made the switch several years ago (2009). I tried the emulation mode, Even got a free copy of Parallels (work perk from Apple) but sadly none of the virtualization options in on the market support use of the GPU. So the 2GB AMD I have in this "overpriced rounded rectangle" would not work. Dual-boot is an option but I have others to think about (wife). She does YouTube video blogs and need to use FCP X fairly regular. Would not be fair to her making it harder for her to edit. Did have an Idea to get a Flash drive external with thunderbolt make that bootable and just shutdown and unplug it when I am done but that too would be more $$ and hassle.
Cryptic made a similar decision
It is too bad there aren't enough Mac players of STO to support a Mac client. I have nothing against Macs, and do own an iPod.
But that's reality: Mac users as a group in STO are not plentiful enough to justify continuing to offer the client. That's not an insult to any individual Mac user, that's not saying anything about how much each of you are willing to pay. There just aren't enough of you.
STO has a smaller user base than WoW, and Macs have 1/15 the market share of Windows. Put that together and it's much harder for Cryptic to make the numbers work than Blizzard.
If you don't care about Cryptic's finances, why should they care about yours? They were tired of wasting resources. Either spend the ZERO DOLLARS IT WOULD COST YOU and dual boot, or deal with it.
I'm defending the decision because it's perfectly reasonable. I don't see why you think a company should waste time and money on something just because you're too lazy to do something as simple as dual-boot. It's incredibly self-centered of you.
Yes, you're such a hardcore gamer that you switched to a platform that hardly runs any games. Very wise of you.
You have Windows. You have a computer that can run Windows. Dual-boot and stop complaining about a non-issue.
Cryptic/PWE have shown what they think of the MAC player base in not only removing support for that platform. But by also refusing to honour the LTS and Zen refunds promised in the closure statement. That i have big issues with particularly the LTS.
I don't know the technobabble of the Official MAC Client but seeings as there are 3rd parties out there like PlayOnMac that allow you to run Star Trek Online and other Windows applications in it and the software is free and it is emulation software i can't see much difference in what Cryptic/PWE were offering. As the game was not officially ported and coded to MAC, we were using a Wine wrapper, emulation software to run Star Trek Online downloaded from their site. I'm sure those more technically savvy than me can explain and point out any flaws in my statement and i'll be happy to read them so my knowledge is enhanced a little
However if you want to continue playing use a workaround like i have its not ideal but i'm able to continue playing, or be braver than me and walk away.
Yeah, that's the only issue I really have, is the refusal to honor the commitment they made on the reimbursements. Macs are doing well — market share is up to about 10%, and it's pretty much the only company seeing increasing PC sales while the market as a whole contracts. But they're building with mobile chipsets to save power and size, and Metal is a whole new API. So I can get a small team not being able to support it.
But failing to put together an accurate list of Mac users for the reimbursements? That's just terrible.
I'm defending the decision because it's perfectly reasonable. I don't see why you think a company should waste time and money on something just because you're too lazy to do something as simple as dual-boot. It's incredibly self-centered of you.
Yes, you're such a hardcore gamer that you switched to a platform that hardly runs any games. Very wise of you.
You have Windows. You have a computer that can run Windows. Dual-boot and stop complaining about a non-issue.[/quote]
Since when is Windows free? I am pretty sure you still have to pay for that. I know the upgrade version from Windows 10 is free but I am pretty sure that you needed to have purchased a license of 7 or 8 for that. I might be just a non-gamer stupid Mac user but a am pretty sure that what your advising me to do is piracy (stealing).
Of course i am a stupid Mac user.....
P.S. - MisterFerengi is right it is time to move on. I do appreciate the graphic about bringing support back to ALL PLATFORMS. Its a nice gesture, probably never going to happen but its the thought that counts.
You yourself said that you used to build PCs for fun, and got tired of having to "put on a ton of **** anti-virus programs or have to do and erase and install every 6 months." What did you do, throw away all your copies of Windows?
Please learn some reading comprehension before accusing others of encouraging illegal behavior.
I don't blame them for killing the Mac client, but "about the same" cost is a comical claim. There's no way there was that much effort in the Mac client.
However, I think it's likely to get a good Mac client, they'd have had to put that much effort in. And with Apple shifting how 3d should be done on the Mac, I agree it wasn't worth the effort.
On the other hand, the console port looks incredibly bad. My kid laughs at the bad graphics every time he sees me playing it. This is not PS4 (or, one assumes, Xbox One) quality.
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah. I read through this thread way back and managed not to comment, but I thought I'd read through it again in light of the Console release and see if the choices made more sense. I think they did. And I think the existing Mac client was worthless, and a new Mac client would have been a rewrite rather than a wrapper.
But that one statement about similar costs still irked me.
They just get less sober.
My character Tsin'xing
/Closed
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider