Please help me understand how absolute unavoidable death = "Challenge"?

kiksken · August 2016

Before anything, let me say, i am autistic with ADHD, and a simpleton (only 163IQ).
I am by far not as intelligent as the people at Cryptic, or any of you...
And as being this simpleton, i come to you in the hope one can shed a light into this matter...

Example: Vaudwaar ships, about 6, deploy these blue balls of death, all simultaneously, and even Evasive Maneuvers seems entirely noneffective due to the space taken by all these balls.
Result: Absolute unavoidable death.

Now, this is not the first mission in which situations as these happen, and i contacted Cryptic about this.
10 deaths in less than 5 minutes seems a bit crazy to me, since, no matter what one tries, one cannot escape death.

Cryptic, and I have to say, they were very friendly and polite, tells me this is just a bit of challenge given to us players.

But, challenge, or inescapable death, to me, do not seem to be the same.

Or, am I mistaken here?

Kindly explain how such system that is absolute death = "challenge"?

Thank you very much.

ADDENDUM:
I am NOT! challenging cryptic's word, or their way of thinking.
This is not a letter in which I am trying to dishonor them, or to insult them in whatever form or whatever means.

mustrumridcully0 · August 2016

There is pretty much exactly one "unavoidable death" scene in STO, and that's the end of the AOY arc.

If you're having problems surviving in other missions, it might be due to suboptimal gear or tactics. (This is not unusual if you're still levelling and haven't spend much effort keeping your ship optimized and figuring out how to fly your newest ship.)

The Vaadwaur are certainly among the toughest foes to fight, but I don't think there is any mission where it's impossible to avoid death.

For example - how did you get into these ball of Death? Why are you fighting 6 enemies at once? Could you have outmaneuvered them or split them up with tools like Gravity Well or Tractor Beam Repulsors? Did you harden your shields with powers like Emergency Power to Shields to blunt the enemy attacks? Why did Evasive Maneuvers fail you -was it really because the ball was too big, or were you tractored or gravity anchored?

risian4 · August 2016

It's not unavoidable. Since you have an IQ of 163, I'll let you figure out what that means for the rest of your post yourself.

dareau · August 2016

My question is "what are you doing to draw the ire of six of these ships at the same time?" While I didn't pay tons of attention during my Temp's travels through the Delta Quadrant, the only time there were more than 2 ships capable of spitting these "Polaron barrages" was in "boss" battles where there were significant NPC presences to soak up some of these barrages while I was "fairly quickly" dispatching a squad.

So, unless you're a high-threat BFaW spam boat that's not really applying tons of lasting damage - so that you aggro all 6 of them onto you at once and haven't actually killed many of them, or are taking "so long" in battles that your NPC allies are all dead, there shouldn't be a reason for you to stare down 6 sets of these barrages at once.

IF your issue is "aggro", then lighten up on the aggro attraction till a squad or two is dead. If it's "too long and no more NPCs", look into improving your build. If all else fails, go slow, let all 6 start targeting you in a "tight area", then use evasives to get the heck out of dodge. Heck, running an effective 50 power through a hyper impulse engine usually lets me escape most of the brunt of a polaron barrage if I max throttle and head dead straight - then a "well timed" EPtS and tac team keeps that back shield from buckling to the point that I can survive being on the edge of one or two blasts...
Note: that's an "unoptimized build" there, and it still more-or-less escapes the "challenge". If you've got a hyper engine, you want higher engine power. Combat engines are usually more efficient at lower power levels.

Unknown · August 2016

This content has been removed.

alexraptorr · August 2016

Unavoidable? not by a long shot. Whether or not you can avoid them is entirely on "you".

phenomenaut01 · August 2016

I've run into that issue myself. I understand that they believe it's challenging, but I believe that it's nothing more than frustrating. It would be one thing if the previous missions ramped up to that level of difficulty, but sometimes the previous missions - fighting the exact same enemies - are just as easy to accomplish as most content with my ship build.

And sometimes this happens towards the end of a particularly long mission - where you're warping from one place to another to defeat various enemies in a chain mission - and then all of the sudden you go to a nearly one hit death, or worse, to spend 5 minutes wearing down a suddenly overpowered enemies defenses only to be killed and have them restore completely during the respawn counter and have to spend another 5 minutes doing the same is ridiculous.

I like challenges, but when I spend 30+ minutes on a mission chain like that and then have to exit the mission to retool my ship equipment - thus losing all of my progress on that mission...

That's not challenging, it's annoying.

salazarraze · August 2016

Usually all I need to survive that "blue ball" attack is Reverse Shield Polarity. Of course, the standard for surviving is killing them before they can kill you.

Unknown · August 2016

This content has been removed.

kiksken · August 2016

@mustrumridcully0
1) Sub-optimal gear: well yes, I am no were near millionaire.
Although, my equipment is not abominable...

2)These balls are being produced by the Vaudwaar, around the targeted ship (me thus).
These are placed in an area, and have an area of effect upon exploding.
I can survive one assault with these, but not two, not to mention 5 or more.

3)As a Tac, i am limited in avoidance skills, flying the Bortasqu', it is not the most agile nor fast ship.
Using EM3 does not cut it, since it's an area of effect assault.
Hardening shield systems/skills I do not have (yet).
Gravity/Anchor does have hardly to none effect on my ship.

@Risian4
Please do elaborate?
And there's no need for rudeness, my friend...

risian4 · August 2016

kiksken wrote: »

@mustrumridcully0
1) Sub-optimal gear: well yes, I am no were near millionaire.
Although, my equipment is not abominable...

2)These balls are being produced by the Vaudwaar, around the targeted ship (me thus).
These are placed in an area, and have an area of effect upon exploding.
I can survive one assault with these, but not two, not to mention 5 or more.

3)As a Tac, i am limited in avoidance skills, flying the Bortasqu', it is not the most agile nor fast ship.
Using EM3 does not cut it, since it's an area of effect assault.
Hardening shield systems/skills I do not have (yet).
Gravity/Anchor does have hardly to none effect on my ship.

@Risian4
Please do elaborate?
And there's no need for rudeness, my friend...

I didn't mean to be rude, but stating that your IQ is 163 seemed a bit arrogant to me.

As for elaboration: there are plenty of ways to deal with the incoming fire. I believe (but could be mistaken in that belief) that it's kinetic damage they're dealing so more resistance against that might help. Or if it's some other type, try getting more resistance against that. I haven't fought them for a while so I have no idea what kind of damage it is tbh

thay8472 · August 2016

What difficulty are you running it on? If you're doing it on elite, maybe bring it down to advanced for X mission? or normal if your running it on advanced.

risian4 · August 2016

I admit that they do hit hard by the way. But that's what makes it interesting if you ask me: you've got to stay alert or you're dead.

jonsills · August 2016

People talk about BFAW as if it were a sin to be avoided at all costs. However, if this is the attack I'm thinking of, those mines are targetable, and BFAW is a good way to thin them out. (So are your own mines; there's a reason why my Escorts always have a minedropper in the aft weapons slot(s).)

Unknown · August 2016

This content has been removed.

kiksken · August 2016

risian4 wrote: »

I didn't mean to be rude, but stating that your IQ is 163 seemed a bit arrogant to me.

I did not meant to come across as arrogant, my apologies.
I am far from being capable of getting the better gear, so far, working on that, but both EC and Dil pour in VERY slowly...
Trying my best.
I was advised to craft, so I have begun learning to craft.
I fear however, since I have donated all my resources and a lot of Dil into our Fleet Spire.
Truthfully, I am not sorry about that.
So, this leaves me rather vulnerable.

However, this brings me back to my question: for beginning players: how on Qo'nos are they supposed to make it out of these situations?

No one is born "rich" here!
And for beginning players, these events are VERY deadly and frustrating.

dareau wrote: »

So, unless you're a high-threat BFaW spam boat that's not really applying tons of lasting damage

Myeah, I guess, i am a BFaW, with a serious threat level...
I'm not known to be... cautious, really.
I try to, I think I am fairly good in combat, but every so often things go extremely bad.
In logical combat, you take down the weak first, only THEN you take out the big cannons.
But this does not apply in STO, which baffles me.

Logic here seems quite far off, tactic wise.

thay8472 wrote: »

What difficulty are you running it on? If you're doing it on elite, maybe bring it down to advanced for X mission? or normal if your running it on advanced.

Normal difficulty.

@risian4
Yes, but once a squadron begins to deploy AoE weapons, then the game's over before it even began.
My ship is not known to be facilitated for speed/agility...
Once I hit EM3, it takes a wee for the ship to actually respond, resulting in death.
Apparently, on top, by the time I am respawned, the V can re-use this weapon system.
So, being this extremely deadly, how can they spam it like that?
Balance surely is not a part in these situations, seems.

nikeix · August 2016

The Vaadwaur are one of the few truly interesting enemies in the game

. They are also nearly unique for having three abilities/attacks that are actually synergistic: An area-devastation attack that's quite punishing if you don't keep moving, a snare-drone that keeps you from moving, and multi-warhead torpedo that will utterly melt your face if your shields are down. There's lots of links in that chain that can be broken by thoughtful and aware counter-play, but if you don't respond specifically to their tactics it will be the end of you.

Good times!

kiksken · August 2016

I understand.
However, how are players that, like me, are fairly poor, meant to survive?
I understand gear is about everything, combined with tactics, but tactics if one does not have the gear to support that tactic, fails always.
As per in my case.

Which brings me back to balance...
How can new characters survive such ordeal?

Unknown · August 2016

This content has been removed.

risian4 · August 2016

Yeah trying to avoid being hit seems the best thing to do. Evasive maneuvers is probably the best ability here, if it's on cooldown try Rock and Roll.

And if you can't avoid being hit, use brace for impact, hazard emitters and Aux to SIF. Besides quickly and passively restoring your hull for a while, hazard emitters, like SIF, also increases your damage resistance. It might help.

kiksken · August 2016

Thank you.

markhawkman · August 2016

Well there's the old fall back of "stop sucking".

Post your ship build and we can tell you a lot more about what you're doing wrong.

tempus64 · August 2016

Fighting the Vaudwaar and dealing with the artillery barrage is all about tactics. You know they're going to be doing it and it follows a pattern. Unlike the majority of missions, you can't go in guns blazing unless you've got great gear etc. I was very new (month or two) to the game when I first ran those missions and died often until I changed up the way I did things. I picked off outer targets. I watched for them launching them and piloted myself out of the midst of them. Once you figure out the pattern, you know whether or not you need to use evasive maneuvers or not. Having Deterium (stock up way down south west of the Beta quadrant at Athena I think it's called) as a backup is also a good idea as it's effectively an evasive maneuver. I timed the use of brace for impact to protect from the explosions just before I knew they'd start. If I took too much damage, I withdrew a bit and healed up. The path you take and especially the speed you're traveling is very important as you can stay "just" ahead of them to minimize damage. In terms of speed, make sure you're using an appropriate engine for your power levels. I didn't have anything special in terms of equipment (was flying a cruiser though) at that point but once I figured some of those things out, I stopped dieing except when I messed up, got cocky and took a bad flight path.

Unknown · August 2016

This content has been removed.

bones1970 · August 2016

If you select full engine power before Evasive maneuvers you move a lot faster.
I use for things like that the next key-bind. ( on pressing ` it set speed to full. set power to engine and then press row 4, 3th button (here i have my Evasive maneuvers, then it put on screen Full speed ahead.)

(in tray 4 , 3th space i have Evasive maneuvers)
` "GenSendMessage Throttle_FullImpulse_Button FullThrottle$$genbuttonclick powerlevel_preset_2$$+trayexecbytray 3 2$$playersay Full speed ahead."

Unknown · August 2016

This content has been removed.

kodachikuno · August 2016

A full set of blue mkXII gear isn't that expensive and all you really need to deal with Vaadwaur at lv60. That said you need the correct gear. Are you mixing beams and cannons? Are you mixing Damage types? Are you using the right Tac/Eng/Sci consoles. Torpedo Spread and Beam Fire at Will can help with the cluster torp/mine, one doesn't have to use a BFaW build to get use out of that power.

Also evasive maneuvers should easily get you out of the range of the polaron bombardment if you just fly a straight line. That also works in the one mission where the planet aims oversized artillery at you. Knowing your ship well can be a big difference as well, often more useful than expensive gear.

There are a lot of little things that can add up here that could result in your situation.

kiksken · August 2016

markhawkman wrote: »

Well there's the old fall back of "stop sucking".

Ah, back to insults?
I thought we no longer were children?
There's really no need for that, brother.

As for the ship:
Ship: Bortasqu' War Cruiser
AP Beam MK XIII purple (7)
AP Omnidirectional MK XII purple
AP Mag Tac console MK XII purple (4)
Field Generator Sci console MK XIII (purple)
RCS Accelerator MK XI Blue (5)
Solanea Deflector MK XII purple
Solanea Hyper Efficient Impulse Engine MK XII Purple
Obelisk Subspace Rift Warp Core Purple
Solanea Resilient Shield array MK XII Purple

Tempus64
Yes, problem is, my ship accelerates about as fast as an old man that has epileptia, no legs, and suffers from a hernia...

Even EM3 is simply inefficient.
As Bones1970 suggests, i could put more into engines, but maintaining 8 beams on what is supposed to be a cannon vessel...
Or do i get that last wrong?
Anyway, i drain my weapon energy fairly fast.
Hence I put all in Defense and secondary Weapon Systems.
I do use Brace for Impact 3, but the sheer force of the attack makes that pointless.
Emergency Power to Shields should give shield resistance, however, the blue balls seemingly surpass shields.
At least, to great extend, although i run Resilient Shields...

kodachikuno · August 2016

Well the ship gear looks solid enough to do the job.. As you said, not fabulous, but functional.
Only things I would suggest changing are all those RCS. Get a Neutronium armor or better, get a fleet Neutronium Armor[Turn] and a Fleet RCS[ResAll].

As for boff Skills, perhaps get a reverse shield polarity and hazard emitter II? Theres also the T5 iconian rep trait that gives you hull heals as long as you are shooting something.

The only other "obvious" fix I could think of would be to have someone skilled with skill builds go over your space skills and make sure you are loaded out right there. I know most of my alts, regardless of class, have a lot of eng skills for those power level boosts.

zarato4218 · August 2016

This won't really help you with survivability, and I'm not sure if you have any interest in saving for low tier C-Store ships anyway, but since you mentioned weapon power issues, one sure way to keep your many beam weapons fed and at full power would be the famous plasmonic leach console. For a Fed or Fed-Rom they can be very cost prohibative but for a KDF, like your toon, or KDF-Rom they are account wide if you get the Tier 3 Nausicaan ship. Right now its on sale for 800 Zen which considering its usefulness is not bad, but again if that is not really up your alley then just ignore this bit. The current sale ends early Monday, but there should be another around Black Friday or the holidays. (If you did go that route though you might need to respec and put points into drain expertise to get the best results which again might not be what you really wanted to do as I can understand having limited resources might make that a bit too much all at once. Still it might be something to consider in the long run.)

Otherwise Kodachikuno is right about the RCS consoles. I know the Bortas has an annoyingly low turn rate, but with diminishing returns on stacked consoles the last couple really are not helping much. Personaly I like to slot the Delta Rep trait (Advanced Engines) as a buff so as to not have to use up so many console slots. The trait also increases your speed a bit which might be helpful too. Either way good luck with your build and defeating the Vaadwaur.

EDIT: Another option to consider for turn rate would be a "Conductive" RCS accelerator. A ship can only slot one at a time but at ultra rare they gain one of many useful modifiers. All versions, purple through gold, also have an extra trait that grants shield damage reduction and an additional temporary turn rate boost. They can be crafted at level 15 Engineering or bought on the exchange but I'm not sure anymore how much they cost. Still its something else to think about for the future and can pair well with the neutronium consoles that Kodachikuno mentioned.

kiksken · August 2016

kodachikuno wrote: »

Well the ship gear looks solid enough to do the job.. As you said, not fabulous, but functional.
Only things I would suggest changing are all those RCS. Get a Neutronium armor or better, get a fleet Neutronium Armor[Turn] and a Fleet RCS[ResAll].

As for boff Skills, perhaps get a reverse shield polarity and hazard emitter II? Theres also the T5 iconian rep trait that gives you hull heals as long as you are shooting something.

The only other "obvious" fix I could think of would be to have someone skilled with skill builds go over your space skills and make sure you are loaded out right there. I know most of my alts, regardless of class, have a lot of eng skills for those power level boosts.

I figured it would be functional.
I try to have my vessels functional.

As for the Fleet systems: Working towards that, my friend.

Thank you.

zarato4218 wrote: »

This won't really help you with survivability, and I'm not sure if you have any interest in low tier C-Store ships anyway, but since you mentioned weapon power issues, one sure way to keep your beam weapons fed and at full power would be the famous plasmonic leach console. For a Fed or Fed-Rom they can be very cost prohibative but for a KDF, like your toon, they are account wide if you get the Tier 3 Nausicaan ship. Right now its on sale for 800 Zen which considering its usefulness is not bad, but again if that is not really up your alley then just ignore this bit. (If you did go that route though you might need to respec and put points into drain expertise to get the best results which again might not be what you really wanted to do as I can understand having limited resources might make that a bit too much all at once. Still it might be something to consider in the long run.)

Otherwise Kodachikuno is right about the RCS consoles. I know the Bortas has an annoyingly low turn rate, but with diminishing returns on stacked consoles the last couple really are not helping much. Personaly I like to slot the Delta Rep trait (Advanced Engines) as a buff so as to not have to use up so many console slots. The trait also increases your speed a bit which might be helpful too. Either way good luck with your build and the Vaadwaur.

EDIT: Another option to consider for turn rate are "Conductive" RCS accelerators. A ship can only slot one at a time but at ultra rare they gain one of many usefull modifiers. All versions also have an extra trait that grants shield damage reduction and an additional temporary turnrate boost. They can be crafted at level 15 Engineering or bought on the exchange but I'm not sure anymore how much they cost. Still its something else to think about for the future and can pair well with the neutronium consoles that Kodachikuno mentioned.

Interesting: so I get me the ship, strip that console, put it on my ship...
I will be testing this.
Thank you.

Please help me understand how absolute unavoidable death = "Challenge"?

Comments