Also could limit it to 24k per account, as that is enough for 3 characters and the ability to earn 1000Z a month, even based on the max 500 Dil per Zen limit..
If you really want to dig into things just look at the example Cryptic give us for earning a top tier ship:
A free event ship at T6 should take you 25 days, which if you were buying it each day with daily dilithium turn-ins at 8000 dilithium per day means it costs 1.5million dilithium. So that's 1.5 million for a top tier account unlock ship with a trait and special console. If you use that as a basis for how quickly you should be able to earn a ship then it makes for some interesting angles on the whole thing. With a max exchange rate that 1.5 million would net you 3000 zen, the exact price of a c-store ship. So if cryptic has any sort of preference for how quickly you can earn anything in game it must be based off how quickly you can earn a free ship, because even with a max exchange rate it's not more expensive than the bought ships in game.
If you really want to dig into things just look at the example Cryptic give us for earning a top tier ship:
A free event ship at T6 should take you 25 days, which if you were buying it each day with daily dilithium turn-ins at 8000 dilithium per day means it costs 1.5million dilithium.
So that's 1.5 million for a top tier account unlock ship with a trait and special console.
If you use that as a basis for how quickly you should be able to earn a ship then it makes for some interesting angles on the whole thing.
With a max exchange rate that 1.5 million would net you 3000 zen, the exact price of a c-store ship. So if cryptic has any sort of preference for how quickly you can earn anything in game it must be based off how quickly you can earn a free ship, because even with a max exchange rate it's not more expensive than the bought ships in game.
Ummm, 8000 dilith x 25 days = 200,000 dilith not 1.5mil dilith
Oops, I meant 2 million, where the hell did I get 1.5 from...??
Anyhow, the same logic stands though. The prices of the "free" ships have been roughly consistent with a single toon working with a max refining limit of 500 for around one month. There's your baseline for how much any sort of cap should be. Don't base it on a massive number of toons, base it on what the devs think a player account should be earning over a set period of time.
Also could limit it to 24k per account, as that is enough for 3 characters and the ability to earn 1000Z a month, even based on the max 500 Dil per Zen limit..
I don't know, an account based cap might be a bit too far. Even if they did do it, 24k would be way too low IMO.
With many threads bitching about the price of the dil exchange and the fact theres too much dil readily available in the game you ask if the refinement cap should be lifted ?, well i can picture what would happen to that economy
Also an account based cap would cause me to stop playing, upgrading and funding the character that are exempt from contributing to the account cap. So if it were 3 characters that contribute to a account cap then 17 of my characters would get abandoned.
Also could limit it to 24k per account, as that is enough for 3 characters and the ability to earn 1000Z a month, even based on the max 500 Dil per Zen limit..
I don't know, an account based cap might be a bit too far. Even if they did do it, 24k would be way too low IMO.
Well the whole point is to make Dilithium harder to get and make it more desirable to buy.
Either way, Cryptic have to either limit how much an account can get, or remove rewards from Admiralty and Doffing etc.
Removing rewards has never gone down very well, and has never really worked, so the best way is to limit how much an account can refine, then it doesn't matter how much you can earn.
Cryptic could then add in special event's to make the limit higher, much like Dilithium weekends where you earn 50% more, for instance..
Also could limit it to 24k per account, as that is enough for 3 characters and the ability to earn 1000Z a month, even based on the max 500 Dil per Zen limit..
I don't know, an account based cap might be a bit too far. Even if they did do it, 24k would be way too low IMO.
Well the whole point is to make Dilithium harder to get and make it more desirable to buy.
Either way, Cryptic have to either limit how much an account can get, or remove rewards from Admiralty and Doffing etc.
Removing rewards has never gone down very well, and has never really worked, so the best way is to limit how much an account can refine, then it doesn't matter how much you can earn.
Cryptic could then add in special event's to make the limit higher, much like Dilithium weekends where you earn 50% more, for instance..
Why should we be penalising players who have multiple alts ?. There already is a cap and that is 8k per character.
I do agree with limiting the ability to generate dilithium via Doffing and Admiralty thou, so dil generated is via mission reruns, STF's ect rather than creating bot toons to simply turn in contraband every 4 hrs (which has been addressed) or cycle through Admiralty.
While I agree that an account-based cap would help reduce "dil farming" (because instead of switching alts, you'd have to switch whole accounts) it's not really going to limit what's already in existence, because the game is F2P in the first place. While I also disagree that raising the refinement cap would be "DOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!" to the Dil market, I think the existing cap is fine, no need to really raise it.
There was no option for "Convert Dil to EC and remove the Zen/Dil exchange" so I chose the "No - Keep it as is" option instead.
I'm fully aware people disagree, and that's fine. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
actually its 380/1 now - but I think that is because of the upgrade weekend. it may go back up after Thursday. Still too much dilithium floating around out there.
That and people want dil for their AoY toons. You can see exchange prices up as well as people are outfitting them, DOFFs for example. Next ship release or maybe promo pack or something will have people buying up Zen again and it will keep going back up. Too much dil out there is just a symptom of not enough stuff to spend it on especially for those that already have "everything" they really want.
I don't understand how anyone could think that putting an account cap in place would hamper dil farmers. Guess they don't know how they actually do things. Even limits to the number of accounts you can have are useless as they can just use proxies, change their IP etc. There is absolutely no way to stop the hardcore dil farmers. Which is why, assuming it was put in place to try and counteract them, the contraband nerf is just ridiculous.
Dilithium is very similair to Cruel oil in real life
If OPEC limit oil production
dilithium/Cruel oil price will be driven up
you may sell your dilithium/Cruel oil for better price
but everything else will become more expensive ( like a loaf of bread or piece of machinery )
do you know what happen to tiny dilithium/oil farmers when everything else become more expense?
...
I dont know I am not OPEC and I didn live in the '70 )
Yup indeed. I've used this exact example many, many times to explain the Dil-Zen economy. Simple fact is, the cap is a handbrake to stop the rate completely spiraling out of control.
OP, if you want more Dil available to 1 character, make another and transfer the Dil to it. Increasing the cap will not benefit anyone in the long term, with the exception of people buying Dil with Zen as that 500-1 rate will be even more readily hit and therefore hurting ALL players who buy Zen with Dil.
Once again, another poorly thought out suggestion.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Well I vote for raise it but do not account cap it! I have insane raw dilth sitting in toons that is useless as the amount never drops but is either maxed or keeps growing due to the refining cap but no cap on earning dilith.
you forgot the Option: raise only for lifetimers (and not by a lot)
I have 18 toons and I am a lifetimer - it's rare that I would Need to refine more on a single toon. But when I had to...the Veteran refiner DOff missions were just rubbish. On some toons I didn't have the required Duty officer and it takes far too Long. Plus you have to travel to accedemy. So in effect I used that Option maybe 20 times or so and I ahve been in the game for a few years now.
Now Argument: this game isn't pay to win -> then giving a bit of not even extra Dil, just the Option to refine more won't make much of a difference
this game is pay to win -> then lifetimers who HAVE paid should also get an Advantage
I wouldn'T raise it by much though - from 8k to 10k is absolutely enough imo.
18 characters
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
Also could limit it to 24k per account, as that is enough for 3 characters and the ability to earn 1000Z a month, even based on the max 500 Dil per Zen limit..
I think that this is fair. I only real use my AOY toon now. Finished upgrading. I now have 120k unrefined on this toon. I will be finishing 8 reps in a few days = about 400k more unrefined. So in a few days I will have 500k+ unrefined on my new main toon. Without playing any content or the doff/adm system that would take 50 days to refine. 2 months to work through the backlog on this new toon - not one that have been racking up unrefined for years. This is a frustrating situation.
I actually really like this idea. Dilithium is a defacto account currency as it is, so that may as well be made official.
Instead of encouraging people to hustle between toons and grind for dil, making it an account wide 16, 24, or even 32k (for gold/lts) would be so much more reasonable, you'd never feel the pressure to have to cycle alts, you'd be free to play the game, earning as you go, rather than playing just to earn.
This is a good way to reel in the economy while improving play for the average player. End the dil machine.
how about revamping dilithium refinement system and in a place of "click daily for a timewall with hard limit" introduce the system that mathes dynamic of pretty much every other similar system in the game?
[hint hint: what is the only common element between doffing, admirality, reputation, fleet holdings, that is perfectly missing from current dilithium refinement mechanics?]
while introducing such a new system cryptic could also warrant a much better flexibility on it so in case if you want to farm your... backs out for the sake of better daily refinement ratio, you could do it, but at a cost that when you don't really care about it more than just click a day you would end up on lower ratio per character than in current system
[I had like 3 different ideas on how such system could look like but it would be hella to long to read if I wanted to post details here.... maybe somewhen I'll find the tiem to write it down properly on the furms if cryptic won't invent it sooner :P]
This is a bad idea. If I have 2 characters on one account, I can refine 8k per character or 16k per day total. But if a 24k per account system is created, then we will see the dil/zen exchange max out at 500 relatively quickly. The reason is that if I create a 2nd account, I can now effectively make another character that can max out 24k per day. I can also create another single character 3rd account that can max out 24k per day. In my case, instead of grinding 8 characters on one account to get 64k per day, I can grind 3 characters total on 3 accounts to get 72k per day.
The economy won't be "reeled in." It will explode because with 8 accounts, 8 characters total, I could now grind 192k dil per day instead of 64k per day.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
This is a very poorly thought out idea. Capping an account not only discourages making Alt's. It would turn off F2P as 24k dil daily equates to 59 Zen per day at 406-1 (current rate). What if the Dil exchange doesn't fall ? it would take average Joe F2P over 50 days at current dilex rate to earn 1 tier 6 ship, or 19 days to earn enough to buy 10 master keys.
This idea seriously hurts the casual player who may only have 1-3 characters. Not everyone is a massive alt grinding,farming behemoth with to much time on their hands.
Others aren't/may not be in the position to put money in to the game due to circumstances which is why there is no upper limit cap, the more alts you have the more you play is the idea and the C-Store should be accessible to everybody, paying or F2P and at a reasonable pace for F2P . If it isn't broke don't fix it. It has worked fine since inception and still works fine.
Cryptic's given us the key to this whole flap, they just haven't advertised it... So I will...
Back when they were "adjusting" the Dil payouts from STFs, one of our upper esteemed Dev team (thinking Borticus but maybe Geko) posted that they "intend" for players to need 3.5 to 4 hours of play to "reach" the dilithium cap on their character - "in normal circumstances"...
As such, let's base a hypothetical account cap on this number. But, for sake of argument - and to give the "hardcore intelligent Dil grinders" a benefit to their grinding, let's base the account cap off of needing 3 hours to reach a character's cap.
8 "3 hour character sessions" in a 24 hour day. 8*8k=64k.
Account dilithium refining limit (normal circumstances, daily) = 64k. Maybe doubled for Dil weekends, as dil earnings are "doubled" for a lot of stuff on dil weekend...
There you go. Simple, clean, and quite in line with what they did with the Admiralty Cap... Gives a clear "upper limit", is within the "reasonable" players earning rates, gives the "hardcore" something to strive for, but locks out the "exploiters" who are just farming dil with as little effort as possible...
Well 64k seems high still. I am sure the 3 hours of play to equal cap is long before all dilithium was adjusted. Does it still take 3 hours to reach 8k?
Not sure it only take me about 10 mins tuning in Doffs and Admertly to get 8k dill for the day sometimes a short mission
24k per day is a lot for 1 character and avg for 3 characters. If you are refining more than 24k per day on more than 3 alts, you are farming dilithium. Not that it is a bad thing, I don't have the metrics, so cryptic would have to run the numbers to see how this might play out.
Comments
Also could limit it to 24k per account, as that is enough for 3 characters and the ability to earn 1000Z a month, even based on the max 500 Dil per Zen limit..
A free event ship at T6 should take you 25 days, which if you were buying it each day with daily dilithium turn-ins at 8000 dilithium per day means it costs 1.5million dilithium.
So that's 1.5 million for a top tier account unlock ship with a trait and special console.
If you use that as a basis for how quickly you should be able to earn a ship then it makes for some interesting angles on the whole thing.
With a max exchange rate that 1.5 million would net you 3000 zen, the exact price of a c-store ship. So if cryptic has any sort of preference for how quickly you can earn anything in game it must be based off how quickly you can earn a free ship, because even with a max exchange rate it's not more expensive than the bought ships in game.
Ummm, 8000 dilith x 25 days = 200,000 dilith not 1.5mil dilith
Which incidentally is the amount the T5 freebie/Dil ships used to be before the massive cost reduction when Admiralty was brought out.
Anyhow, the same logic stands though. The prices of the "free" ships have been roughly consistent with a single toon working with a max refining limit of 500 for around one month.
There's your baseline for how much any sort of cap should be. Don't base it on a massive number of toons, base it on what the devs think a player account should be earning over a set period of time.
I don't know, an account based cap might be a bit too far. Even if they did do it, 24k would be way too low IMO.
Also an account based cap would cause me to stop playing, upgrading and funding the character that are exempt from contributing to the account cap. So if it were 3 characters that contribute to a account cap then 17 of my characters would get abandoned.
Well the whole point is to make Dilithium harder to get and make it more desirable to buy.
Either way, Cryptic have to either limit how much an account can get, or remove rewards from Admiralty and Doffing etc.
Removing rewards has never gone down very well, and has never really worked, so the best way is to limit how much an account can refine, then it doesn't matter how much you can earn.
Cryptic could then add in special event's to make the limit higher, much like Dilithium weekends where you earn 50% more, for instance..
Why should we be penalising players who have multiple alts ?. There already is a cap and that is 8k per character.
I do agree with limiting the ability to generate dilithium via Doffing and Admiralty thou, so dil generated is via mission reruns, STF's ect rather than creating bot toons to simply turn in contraband every 4 hrs (which has been addressed) or cycle through Admiralty.
There was no option for "Convert Dil to EC and remove the Zen/Dil exchange" so I chose the "No - Keep it as is" option instead.
I'm fully aware people disagree, and that's fine. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
That and people want dil for their AoY toons. You can see exchange prices up as well as people are outfitting them, DOFFs for example. Next ship release or maybe promo pack or something will have people buying up Zen again and it will keep going back up. Too much dil out there is just a symptom of not enough stuff to spend it on especially for those that already have "everything" they really want.
I don't understand how anyone could think that putting an account cap in place would hamper dil farmers. Guess they don't know how they actually do things. Even limits to the number of accounts you can have are useless as they can just use proxies, change their IP etc. There is absolutely no way to stop the hardcore dil farmers. Which is why, assuming it was put in place to try and counteract them, the contraband nerf is just ridiculous.
Yup indeed. I've used this exact example many, many times to explain the Dil-Zen economy. Simple fact is, the cap is a handbrake to stop the rate completely spiraling out of control.
OP, if you want more Dil available to 1 character, make another and transfer the Dil to it. Increasing the cap will not benefit anyone in the long term, with the exception of people buying Dil with Zen as that 500-1 rate will be even more readily hit and therefore hurting ALL players who buy Zen with Dil.
Once again, another poorly thought out suggestion.
I have 18 toons and I am a lifetimer - it's rare that I would Need to refine more on a single toon. But when I had to...the Veteran refiner DOff missions were just rubbish. On some toons I didn't have the required Duty officer and it takes far too Long. Plus you have to travel to accedemy. So in effect I used that Option maybe 20 times or so and I ahve been in the game for a few years now.
Now Argument: this game isn't pay to win -> then giving a bit of not even extra Dil, just the Option to refine more won't make much of a difference
this game is pay to win -> then lifetimers who HAVE paid should also get an Advantage
I wouldn'T raise it by much though - from 8k to 10k is absolutely enough imo.
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
I think that this is fair. I only real use my AOY toon now. Finished upgrading. I now have 120k unrefined on this toon. I will be finishing 8 reps in a few days = about 400k more unrefined. So in a few days I will have 500k+ unrefined on my new main toon. Without playing any content or the doff/adm system that would take 50 days to refine. 2 months to work through the backlog on this new toon - not one that have been racking up unrefined for years. This is a frustrating situation.
Instead of encouraging people to hustle between toons and grind for dil, making it an account wide 16, 24, or even 32k (for gold/lts) would be so much more reasonable, you'd never feel the pressure to have to cycle alts, you'd be free to play the game, earning as you go, rather than playing just to earn.
This is a good way to reel in the economy while improving play for the average player. End the dil machine.
[hint hint: what is the only common element between doffing, admirality, reputation, fleet holdings, that is perfectly missing from current dilithium refinement mechanics?]
while introducing such a new system cryptic could also warrant a much better flexibility on it so in case if you want to farm your... backs out for the sake of better daily refinement ratio, you could do it, but at a cost that when you don't really care about it more than just click a day you would end up on lower ratio per character than in current system
[I had like 3 different ideas on how such system could look like but it would be hella to long to read if I wanted to post details here.... maybe somewhen I'll find the tiem to write it down properly on the furms if cryptic won't invent it sooner :P]
The economy won't be "reeled in." It will explode because with 8 accounts, 8 characters total, I could now grind 192k dil per day instead of 64k per day.
And no I'm not trolling, I really think it could be a benefit overall.
This idea seriously hurts the casual player who may only have 1-3 characters. Not everyone is a massive alt grinding,farming behemoth with to much time on their hands.
Others aren't/may not be in the position to put money in to the game due to circumstances which is why there is no upper limit cap, the more alts you have the more you play is the idea and the C-Store should be accessible to everybody, paying or F2P and at a reasonable pace for F2P . If it isn't broke don't fix it. It has worked fine since inception and still works fine.
Not sure it only take me about 10 mins tuning in Doffs and Admertly to get 8k dill for the day sometimes a short mission
NO!.
fing learn to use forum search tool.