How to make Lockbox Gamblers out of EVERYONE, even ME

Cryptic, you're doing it wrong.

Does the current formula bring in money, we'll obviously.

But for a company as greedy as PW, it blows my mind that they dont run their casino better, for MUCH higher returns per player in STO.

How do you make a gambling hater gamble? By being REASONABLE with it.

Lets look at average player common sense. We all know, in America at least, a new game costs $60. No sensible player is going to pay MORE than the cost of the ENTIRE game for ONE item/housing/vehicle in that game. Sure, maybe you have 1% of all STO players that are stupid whales, but why rely solely on them to keep your game affloat?

Lets take a Tier 6 ship. $30 alone. Already high, but under the whole game cost. Even I have bought bundles to get 3 ships at $17ish each. Still, thats 2/5 the cost of the whole game. But that works, thats the ceiling you get even sensible non gamblers to buy in.

It was great when they came out with the Lobi concept, but they missed the mark to hook nearly everyone with it.

You make a C store T6 version good. You make a Lockbox version GREATER than Fleet status.

If $1 for key, and $30 for a T6 regular ship, you make and SHOW the odds are 1/120 (4 times the value of a regular ship) and you set the Lobi price of the lockbox ship at $53 (75% markup).

Now common sense non gambler me looks at that and says, well Im gambling, and the odds are reasonable, and if I never get a hit on the max prize, I'll never be paying more than double for the ship. And its still just less than the cost of a new game of something else. But I REALLY want that ship.

And so I gamble. With the promise Im going to get what I want within acceptable financial risk.

And maybe I dont hit it within 30 boxes. Maybe I dont have the money to keep going. Maybe I opened 40 boxes, still no JJ prize. But you know what, Im SOO close. Next month, I'll risk $13 more dollars.

So out of say 10,000 players, lets say they somehow have 5% ignoring the lockbox horrir stories, and they throw about $100 at it. Good money at 500 players spending $100 gets them $50,000.

But my formula tempts WAY more players to gamble. Lets say I tempt 30% of 10,000. And that 30% spend an average of $40 to get the ship, factoring in the players that hit it spending less than $30. 3000 players spend $40 and bring in $120,000.

50 grand being unreasonable jerks with your gambling formula.

120 grand being reasonable with your customers.

Now dont tell me treating your customers fairly doesnt make you more money, since we HAVE to have some Lockboxing.

But PW is apparently happy making significantly LESS per ship than they could be with a FAIR gambling model

Mind boggling...
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader

Comments

  • thekodanarmada#7342
    thekodanarmada#7342 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    And?
    DInb0Vo.gif[/url][/center]
  • farmallm
    farmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I will open up some when I get around to it. But I let the others open them up. And buy what I want with EC. That is how I get some ground gear out of the boxes. In the past I would go after some of the "cheaper" ships. Like the Mirror ones, etc. However they killed those. So now I don't have to spend as much.
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    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
    Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
  • gavinruneblade
    gavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,893 Arc User
    Your premise is flawed. People absolutely pay more than the cost of a game for one item.

    $500 for a costume on a mech.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/mechwarrior-online-announces-clan-collection-with-500-gold-mechs-ui-2-0-still-coming/

    $5,500+ for a space ship.
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5356498/eve-online-battle-sees-200000-dollars-worth-of-spaceships-destroyed

    $60 is nothing.
  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,950 Arc User
    Cryptic, you're doing it wrong.

    Does the current formula bring in money, we'll obviously.

    But for a company as greedy as PW, it blows my mind that they dont run their casino better, for MUCH higher returns per player in STO.

    How do you make a gambling hater gamble? By being REASONABLE with it.

    Lets look at average player common sense. We all know, in America at least, a new game costs $60. No sensible player is going to pay MORE than the cost of the ENTIRE game for ONE item/housing/vehicle in that game. Sure, maybe you have 1% of all STO players that are stupid whales, but why rely solely on them to keep your game affloat?

    Lets take a Tier 6 ship. $30 alone. Already high, but under the whole game cost. Even I have bought bundles to get 3 ships at $17ish each. Still, thats 2/5 the cost of the whole game. But that works, thats the ceiling you get even sensible non gamblers to buy in.

    It was great when they came out with the Lobi concept, but they missed the mark to hook nearly everyone with it.

    You make a C store T6 version good. You make a Lockbox version GREATER than Fleet status.

    If $1 for key, and $30 for a T6 regular ship, you make and SHOW the odds are 1/120 (4 times the value of a regular ship) and you set the Lobi price of the lockbox ship at $53 (75% markup).

    Now common sense non gambler me looks at that and says, well Im gambling, and the odds are reasonable, and if I never get a hit on the max prize, I'll never be paying more than double for the ship. And its still just less than the cost of a new game of something else. But I REALLY want that ship.

    And so I gamble. With the promise Im going to get what I want within acceptable financial risk.

    And maybe I dont hit it within 30 boxes. Maybe I dont have the money to keep going. Maybe I opened 40 boxes, still no JJ prize. But you know what, Im SOO close. Next month, I'll risk $13 more dollars.

    So out of say 10,000 players, lets say they somehow have 5% ignoring the lockbox horrir stories, and they throw about $100 at it. Good money at 500 players spending $100 gets them $50,000.

    But my formula tempts WAY more players to gamble. Lets say I tempt 30% of 10,000. And that 30% spend an average of $40 to get the ship, factoring in the players that hit it spending less than $30. 3000 players spend $40 and bring in $120,000.

    50 grand being unreasonable jerks with your gambling formula.

    120 grand being reasonable with your customers.

    Now dont tell me treating your customers fairly doesnt make you more money, since we HAVE to have some Lockboxing.

    But PW is apparently happy making significantly LESS per ship than they could be with a FAIR gambling model

    Mind boggling...

    dur6tji.jpg

    can't tell if bored, happy or constipated...​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents
    #LegalizeAwoo
    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • doubleohnine
    doubleohnine Member Posts: 816 Arc User
    Your premise is flawed. People absolutely pay more than the cost of a game for one item.

    $500 for a costume on a mech.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/mechwarrior-online-announces-clan-collection-with-500-gold-mechs-ui-2-0-still-coming/

    $5,500+ for a space ship.
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5356498/eve-online-battle-sees-200000-dollars-worth-of-spaceships-destroyed

    $60 is nothing.

    Because those are just crazy whales. My point still stands, tempt the average frugal player into gambling a bit too, and their total contribution will outweigh the contribution of a few whales.
    STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
    Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
  • starkaos
    starkaos Member Posts: 11,547 Arc User
    Cryptic, you're doing it wrong.

    Does the current formula bring in money, we'll obviously.

    But for a company as greedy as PW, it blows my mind that they dont run their casino better, for MUCH higher returns per player in STO.

    How do you make a gambling hater gamble? By being REASONABLE with it.

    Lets look at average player common sense. We all know, in America at least, a new game costs $60. No sensible player is going to pay MORE than the cost of the ENTIRE game for ONE item/housing/vehicle in that game. Sure, maybe you have 1% of all STO players that are stupid whales, but why rely solely on them to keep your game affloat?

    Lets take a Tier 6 ship. $30 alone. Already high, but under the whole game cost. Even I have bought bundles to get 3 ships at $17ish each. Still, thats 2/5 the cost of the whole game. But that works, thats the ceiling you get even sensible non gamblers to buy in.

    It was great when they came out with the Lobi concept, but they missed the mark to hook nearly everyone with it.

    You make a C store T6 version good. You make a Lockbox version GREATER than Fleet status.

    If $1 for key, and $30 for a T6 regular ship, you make and SHOW the odds are 1/120 (4 times the value of a regular ship) and you set the Lobi price of the lockbox ship at $53 (75% markup).

    Now common sense non gambler me looks at that and says, well Im gambling, and the odds are reasonable, and if I never get a hit on the max prize, I'll never be paying more than double for the ship. And its still just less than the cost of a new game of something else. But I REALLY want that ship.

    And so I gamble. With the promise Im going to get what I want within acceptable financial risk.

    And maybe I dont hit it within 30 boxes. Maybe I dont have the money to keep going. Maybe I opened 40 boxes, still no JJ prize. But you know what, Im SOO close. Next month, I'll risk $13 more dollars.

    So out of say 10,000 players, lets say they somehow have 5% ignoring the lockbox horrir stories, and they throw about $100 at it. Good money at 500 players spending $100 gets them $50,000.

    But my formula tempts WAY more players to gamble. Lets say I tempt 30% of 10,000. And that 30% spend an average of $40 to get the ship, factoring in the players that hit it spending less than $30. 3000 players spend $40 and bring in $120,000.

    50 grand being unreasonable jerks with your gambling formula.

    120 grand being reasonable with your customers.

    Now dont tell me treating your customers fairly doesnt make you more money, since we HAVE to have some Lockboxing.

    But PW is apparently happy making significantly LESS per ship than they could be with a FAIR gambling model

    Mind boggling...

    dur6tji.jpg

    can't tell if bored, happy or constipated...​​

    Maybe all 3?
  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    I cant say this would make me open keys much, if ever
  • gavinruneblade
    gavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,893 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Your premise is flawed. People absolutely pay more than the cost of a game for one item.

    $500 for a costume on a mech.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/mechwarrior-online-announces-clan-collection-with-500-gold-mechs-ui-2-0-still-coming/

    $5,500+ for a space ship.
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5356498/eve-online-battle-sees-200000-dollars-worth-of-spaceships-destroyed

    $60 is nothing.

    Because those are just crazy whales. My point still stands, tempt the average frugal player into gambling a bit too, and their total contribution will outweigh the contribution of a few whales.
    No, there's a larger population than you think. This is not to say your idea is bad, just your opinion that only a few crazy people spend that much is wrong. Your suggestion is a valid one, and there is some market data to support you. But the low spenders combined are smaller than the big spenders. The only in-depth analysis with large numbers that I am aware of are the 2014 and 2016 SWRVE reports on the spending habits of 10 million+ gamers for 200+ games combined. The 2016 PDF is a very fascinating read:
    https://www.swrve.com/images/uploads/whitepapers/swrve-monetization-report-2016.pdf

    They have some very interesting support for your suggestion to lower the cost of gambling on page 7. But notice the size of the group spending over $50 and the really big group spending up to $20. Also note that the group you are talking about appealing to is shrinking and the group you say is "just crazy whales" is growing:
    "Most notably, we see that while purchases between $0 and $5 represent over 39% of all purchases (not surprising), they contribute just 14.5% of revenue (a huge decrease from the 27% of revenue purchases at this level contributed in the original report). What is really interesting, however, is that high value purchases (those over $50), unsurprisingly account for a mere 2.5% of the total number, but almost 18% of total revenue. This is up from the 11% we found in the original report. The continued strong performance of 'mid-tier' SKU values, with those between $10.01 and $20 contributing 18% of all purchases and 26% of all revenue, also indicates an ongoing willingness among gamers to buy in-app purchases at higher price points."

    Here's the really strong analysis that supports your suggestion:
    "All in, there's a clear indication that SKUs from across the mix each make a healthy contribution to revenue. It appears that game developers are learning that a range of SKUs, for a range of player types, is the way to go."
    Personally, I like the idea of products for everyone, and I think STO does a better job than most games at this. But like you I agree there could be more low-end purchase options. I'd love to see a range of less than 100-zen items that don't suck (like the buffs and boosts which completely suck). If that means cheaper gambling options like you suggest, or completely new products, either way I'd like to see more cheap options.

    However, their final conclusion for game developers is to aim for whales:
    "the vast majority of players deliver no revenue, again confirming that greater care should be taken in user acquisition to ensure as much as possible that onboarded users fit the subset of 'spenders'. Why spend money on users who will never generate revenue?"

    This is what they used as the logic to support their conclusion:
    "The top 10% of players contribute over 48% of total revenues in the month"
    and
    "a full 60% of all payers (those actually making a purchase in the month) contribute a little under 20% of all revenues... it remains the case that 'all paying players are not created equal'.

    So, it is 2.5% of players that are willing to spend more than the cost of a game on a single item. That's not just "crazy whales", that's a solid chunk of people. And those who will spend repeatedly in the $10-$20 range are 18% of all people willing to spend any money at all. The $0 to $5 spenders only are 14% of total game revenue and dropping. Appealing to that group has value yes, but it does NOT exceed the value of the larger purchases, especially since that group is shrinking. Not just in one game, this is looking at 200 games over multiple years.

    So your idea for cheaper gambling has merit, keep promoting it and I hope it catches on. But your view of whales and the amount people are willing to spend is not based on fact.

    In closing, I'll even give you some more ammunition: In Champions, at least while I was playing, keys were 100zen, not 125zen. Cryptic has (or at least had) permission from PWE, at a bare minimum for one of their games, to sell at a lower price.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/9010353-holiday-key-sale
    20% discount resulting in a 10-pack price of 720 zen. 900zen at a 20% discount = 720zen, their 10 pack only costs 900zen normally. Ours needs a 15% discount to get down to 900zen. Can they drop the price of gambling without PWE's permission? I dunno, I suspect this is a legacy price that's grandfathered into their contract with PWE or something like that. But who knows. And note that I have no idea what the difference in key sales is between the two games. Their internal data might show that lowering the cost for champions had no effect or even a decrease in revenue when you look at per-player spending.
  • alpharaider47#7707
    alpharaider47#7707 Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    Your premise is flawed. People absolutely pay more than the cost of a game for one item.

    $500 for a costume on a mech.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/mechwarrior-online-announces-clan-collection-with-500-gold-mechs-ui-2-0-still-coming/

    $5,500+ for a space ship.
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5356498/eve-online-battle-sees-200000-dollars-worth-of-spaceships-destroyed

    $60 is nothing.

    Because those are just crazy whales. My point still stands, tempt the average frugal player into gambling a bit too, and their total contribution will outweigh the contribution of a few whales.

    I find the term "whale" to be offensive. I am a great white shark of the microtransaction world.

    To respond to your premise, you can entice people to spend money by instead offering desirable rewards in the boxes- which is exactly what Cryptic has done with the upcoming Kelvin lockbox. Myself for example, I spend maybe $50 every few months on this game, usually coinciding with a new ship release or a desire to upgrade gear and sell zen for dilithium. I put money into the game to enjoy playing the game. I don't drop huge sums of money for lockboxes. Until this one: the two promotions yesterday/today and the Kelvin Lockbox encouraged me to drop more than I'm generally interested in spending to earn two ships, ground weapons, and a couple virtual costumes. I would say that their current strategy is working quite well. On top of that, we've been fighting for a T6 Connie since launch, and I have been fighting for JJTrek content since launch. We finally did it, it's finally happening, and you can bet your *** I'm going to own as much of it as I can.
    sFfAcbR.jpg
    STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
  • jayfresh11
    jayfresh11 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    jayfresh11 wrote: »
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me

    thats.... insane....
  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,950 Arc User
    what's even more insane is that he now has 50k shy of 2 BILLION EC if he decides to sell them when the kelvin box hits the open market and keys jump back up to 7.5m a piece​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents
    #LegalizeAwoo
    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    what's even more insane is that he now has 50k shy of 2 BILLION EC if he decides to sell them when the kelvin box hits the open market and keys jump back up to 7.5m a piece​​

    oh I hope they go that high I have 10 waitin to see where the price goes and 8 posted for 5.8mil
  • jarfaru
    jarfaru Member Posts: 554 Arc User
    jayfresh11 wrote: »
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me

    thats.... insane....

    Tons of players like this in this game. Its why PWE does what it does.
  • doubleohnine
    doubleohnine Member Posts: 816 Arc User
    jayfresh11 wrote: »
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me

    Please let us know if you get a JJ Prize. Im going to LMAO if you dont. But seriously good luck.

    I didnt actually read that report posted above, just the post with the highlights. Frankly, I think its flawed logic to compile data on 200 games and use that math to make your point in THIS game, which I want to believe is an outlier. This is freakin STAR TREK, a 50 year franchise, and fans who love to collect stuff. IMO, you cant let all that data drag down your value of low end players. If Cryptic had been handling Lockboxes the way I suggested, from day 1, I guarantee they have a LOT more revenue in these past few years. But now that the LAST highly canon desirable stuff is being used up, the JJ content, theres nothing left to pull in that much demand. The STO artists miss a lot more than they hit, designing ships people want. So dont expect my formula to make as much in the next 3 years as it could have the last 3 years. They went all in on whales, and and spit in the faces of LOYAL fans who SPEND and wanted to spend in this game. How many thousands of thread topics have been made for them to TAKE our money with ideas to do so. But they still get access to a few big things, and they just offer it to the mega whales. Its not like in other games where the IP is new and has no history, and their stuff is all made up TRIBBLE that has no tv and movie and book nostalgia to increase demand, vs the average space ship IP game. Cryptic could have made much more money by being GOOD to the Star Trek fan willing to pay into this game, but they just assumed we were like all the other lame MMOs, and applied their ludicrous gambling models to this fanbase. A fanbase thats smarter on average than the average MMO, where our very IP has taught us over the years not to be so gullible. Sure many balked hard at gambling, but they could have won over SOO many more if they were fair with it. Now its too late, they have a GREAT ship to offer on a gambling hook, and they have YEARS of bitter jadded gamblers who wont spend more to get it, combined with JJ universe haters, at this stage of the game, its not smart to lock a mega seller behind the whale wall. Sell it straight up in the C store, or some SENSIBLE gambling for it, but not THIS strategy.

    But whatever. Im honestly surprised the game has lasted THIS long. Ive got gambling restraint, I always have. It just boggles my mind the way Cryptic has thrown away hundreds of thousands a year with their pricing strategy. Especially considering their staff ship artists cant design to save their lives, and the only mega sellers are canon ships from movies, shows, and books. When you know your artists cant compete with nostalgia ships, you dont blow your potential profit keeping the canon ships from the masses who will gladly pay you a reasonable price for them. Its a huge financial mistake to apply the pricing logic of an average of MMOs out there with THIS IP, that needed kid gloves to get more money per year from the average players.
    STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
    Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    jayfresh11 wrote: »
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me
    thats.... insane....

    ((shrug)) When they popped the zeni sale and key discount on the same day I gave them $200 and cashed out my ARC quest piggy bank. I've got 220 keys lined up for the new lockbox and bought the cross-faction battle cruiser pack. Sure, I'll probably skip a nice diner out or two and rein in some other impulse buys between now and the end of August, but I'll also still be playing with my new toys in STO then so its a value I intent to recoup over time.

    You've got to understand, in F2P country, 'Whale" means dropping thousands of dollars at a time, often every month. $200 once or twice a year is more like a 'plump trout' than a 'whale'.

  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Please let us know if you get a JJ Prize. I'm going to LMAO if you don't. But seriously good luck.

    Why? Its a mixed bet at best to pull a ship box in even 260 tries. The only thing you know you'll get is ~1250 lobi, which is plenty to go for a shopping spree in the lobi store.

    I've no interest in the Fed-prize myself, but I am planning to document my results for science. I intend to open up to 70 boxes per faction, starting with my Klingon captain as the ship I'm most interest in is the KT raider. If a captain does hit the grand prize I'll pause the run and transfer any remaining boxes to the other factions before continuing.

    The ship I'm most interested in is a Vengeance for my Fed Intel-focused main. I can't lose on that bet because I'll automatically get more than enough lobi. I'm basically opening boxes just to get some phaser emitters/KT torpedoes to mount on that beast. And to tell Cryptic 'Yes, bringing in KT elements IS the money maker you dreamed it would be.'

    Funny thing: when you open lock boxes with an eye towards the mid-tier prize, you suffer a LOT less gambler's remorse. I guess you'll be laughing with me, rather than at me as my Vengeance pulls out of space-dock.
  • starkaos
    starkaos Member Posts: 11,547 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    Please let us know if you get a JJ Prize. I'm going to LMAO if you don't. But seriously good luck.

    Why? Its a mixed bet at best to pull a ship box in even 260 tries. The only thing you know you'll get is ~1250 lobi, which is plenty to go for a shopping spree in the lobi store.

    I've no interest in the Fed-prize myself, but I am planning to document my results for science. I intend to open up to 70 boxes per faction, starting with my Klingon captain as the ship I'm most interest in is the KT raider. If a captain does hit the grand prize I'll pause the run and transfer any remaining boxes to the other factions before continuing.

    The ship I'm most interested in is a Vengeance for my Fed Intel-focused main. I can't lose on that bet because I'll automatically get more than enough lobi. I'm basically opening boxes just to get some phaser emitters/KT torpedoes to mount on that beast. And to tell Cryptic 'Yes, bringing in KT elements IS the money maker you dreamed it would be.'

    Funny thing: when you open lock boxes with an eye towards the mid-tier prize, you suffer a LOT less gambler's remorse. I guess you'll be laughing with me, rather than at me as my Vengeance pulls out of space-dock.

    Been a couple of years since I went on a Lockbox spree, but it was always the Lobi Store that drove my Lockbox purchases. If I got the grand prize, then fine, but Lockbox ships are usually easier to get by selling keys instead of opening boxes. There is the possibility that I might have gotten the grand prize by opening up a few boxes, but there is also the possibility that I could open up 1000 boxes and still not get it.
  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited July 2016
    nikeix wrote: »
    jayfresh11 wrote: »
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me
    thats.... insane....

    ((shrug)) When they popped the zeni sale and key discount on the same day I gave them $200 and cashed out my ARC quest piggy bank. I've got 220 keys lined up for the new lockbox and bought the cross-faction battle cruiser pack. Sure, I'll probably skip a nice diner out or two and rein in some other impulse buys between now and the end of August, but I'll also still be playing with my new toys in STO then so its a value I intent to recoup over time.

    You've got to understand, in F2P country, 'Whale" means dropping thousands of dollars at a time, often every month. $200 once or twice a year is more like a 'plump trout' than a 'whale'.

    apparently I will forever remain a half starved minnow then :P I consider the $150 I spend on STO between the AoY pack and a couple master key 10packs to be bordering on absurdly insane

    also if any of you crazies get doubles or triples of cool toys I can give them a good home! :D
  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,950 Arc User
    i went on the biggest box spree i've ever gone on since they were first introduced when the infinity box dropped...mainly because of the choice packs, which quickly switched gears to lobi when i found out the vengeance was going to be a lobi ship

    unfortunately, i'm still 190 short and i used up all my EC, though i currently have a metric ton of stuff up for sale across many characters, so hopefully some of it sells and i'll be able to grab more keys soonish​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents
    #LegalizeAwoo
    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
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    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

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    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Apparently I will forever remain a half starved minnow then :P

    And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that :). The ecology relies on all niches being filled - many whales need an audience of minnows to swim around them tickling their belly.
    I consider the $150 I spend on STO between the AoY pack and a couple master key 10packs to be bordering on absurdly insane.

    I've gotta ask: do you own a gaming console? Because dropping $150 on video games when they're $45-$60 a disk is something a lot of gamers do quarterly. Either way the AoY pack is a pretty good value in STO-terms, so hopefully you'll feel like you got fun proportionate to your expense over the next few months :).
    Also if any of you crazies get doubles or triples of cool toys I can give them a good home! :D

    Having captains for all three factions I doubt I'll end up with any duplicate ships, but I'll keep it in mind :grin:.

  • kamuii2
    kamuii2 Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    I am going to try my best to get a d4x but who knows. anything can happen with lockboxes. seen people get the grand prize in 1 key seen people blow 100s of keys and never get it.
  • doubleohnine
    doubleohnine Member Posts: 816 Arc User
    The JJ Vengeance is uglier than the STO Lego-prize. Im surprised by how many people actually want that TRIBBLE. Im also surprised its not the grand prize with mega stats and the Connie is the lobi ship.

    I guess we'll just wait and see how long you actually would have gotten use out of a T1 JJ Prize. If its the blink of an eye most are expecting, I wont regret not having it.
    STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
    Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
  • gradii
    gradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    nikeix wrote: »
    jayfresh11 wrote: »
    I guess I'm a stupid whale cryptic relies on. I took advantage of the zen sale and with the zen I already have, I now have 260 keys. My buddy has way more than I do so he's a bigger whale compared to me
    thats.... insane....

    ((shrug)) When they popped the zeni sale and key discount on the same day I gave them $200 and cashed out my ARC quest piggy bank. I've got 220 keys lined up for the new lockbox and bought the cross-faction battle cruiser pack. Sure, I'll probably skip a nice diner out or two and rein in some other impulse buys between now and the end of August, but I'll also still be playing with my new toys in STO then so its a value I intent to recoup over time.

    You've got to understand, in F2P country, 'Whale" means dropping thousands of dollars at a time, often every month. $200 once or twice a year is more like a 'plump trout' than a 'whale'.

    apparently I will forever remain a half starved minnow then :P I consider the $150 I spend on STO between the AoY pack and a couple master key 10packs to be bordering on absurdly insane

    This. Not everyone is swimming in money. some of us struggle to keep our heads above financial water constantly.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • ashstorm1
    ashstorm1 Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    Cryptic, you're doing it wrong.

    Does the current formula bring in money, we'll obviously.

    But for a company as greedy as PW, it blows my mind that they dont run their casino better, for MUCH higher returns per player in STO.

    How do you make a gambling hater gamble? By being REASONABLE with it.

    Lets look at average player common sense. We all know, in America at least, a new game costs $60. No sensible player is going to pay MORE than the cost of the ENTIRE game for ONE item/housing/vehicle in that game. Sure, maybe you have 1% of all STO players that are stupid whales, but why rely solely on them to keep your game affloat?

    Lets take a Tier 6 ship. $30 alone. Already high, but under the whole game cost. Even I have bought bundles to get 3 ships at $17ish each. Still, thats 2/5 the cost of the whole game. But that works, thats the ceiling you get even sensible non gamblers to buy in.

    It was great when they came out with the Lobi concept, but they missed the mark to hook nearly everyone with it.

    You make a C store T6 version good. You make a Lockbox version GREATER than Fleet status.

    If $1 for key, and $30 for a T6 regular ship, you make and SHOW the odds are 1/120 (4 times the value of a regular ship) and you set the Lobi price of the lockbox ship at $53 (75% markup).

    Now common sense non gambler me looks at that and says, well Im gambling, and the odds are reasonable, and if I never get a hit on the max prize, I'll never be paying more than double for the ship. And its still just less than the cost of a new game of something else. But I REALLY want that ship.

    And so I gamble. With the promise Im going to get what I want within acceptable financial risk.

    And maybe I dont hit it within 30 boxes. Maybe I dont have the money to keep going. Maybe I opened 40 boxes, still no JJ prize. But you know what, Im SOO close. Next month, I'll risk $13 more dollars.

    So out of say 10,000 players, lets say they somehow have 5% ignoring the lockbox horrir stories, and they throw about $100 at it. Good money at 500 players spending $100 gets them $50,000.

    But my formula tempts WAY more players to gamble. Lets say I tempt 30% of 10,000. And that 30% spend an average of $40 to get the ship, factoring in the players that hit it spending less than $30. 3000 players spend $40 and bring in $120,000.

    50 grand being unreasonable jerks with your gambling formula.

    120 grand being reasonable with your customers.

    Now dont tell me treating your customers fairly doesnt make you more money, since we HAVE to have some Lockboxing.

    But PW is apparently happy making significantly LESS per ship than they could be with a FAIR gambling model

    Mind boggling...

    Then it's a good thing that i am not a gambler...

    Although getting a Vonph dreadnought, a Quas cruiser, a Tarantula dreadnought and a Narcine dreadnought in two months of interval was in no way unpleasant either ^^
  • hyefather
    hyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    I kinda understand what he's saying. If cryptic were to give us the odds and even if they were unreasonable we would still buy more than we do lnormally because we automatically think we are being ripped off way more than we are if the odds are hidden. Even though we are still being took to the cleaners we would do it more willing if we knew we were being took to the cleaners. Its like your drug dealer says I only have one pill left so I need to get more money than usual. Its a crazy thing but its true. If we know how hard were getting F#$(ED we will usually let someone F#($) us. There for let the odds be known, not hidden. Then what will people have bad to say about lockbox gambling....nothing.