Of course the big thing here is the assumption that Cryptic wants to fix this 'problem' which of course.. they don't. And I don't blame them for that at all.
That's the main issue. Any long term solution would make Cryptic sell less Zen for real money,
which of course they are unlikely to do.
Any other dil-sink (holdings, sellable (cosmetic) dil-items etc.) will only work for a short time
until the market is saturated and they become so cheap that selling Dil for Zen is a better option
again.
Other things might work in the long run but the sink would be to small to expect a noticable
difference on the market.
E.g. spending Dil to remove a "bound to character/account" from an item that is bound due to
equipping it (so not for items that are generally "bind on pickup"), in depenence on ratity and
MK.
Or being able to remove the the last added mod from an item (not reduce the tier though). So
if you don't like the mod on your crafted gear you can spent Dil (in dependence on rarity and MK)
and remove it so you can have another, more expensive go.
This will spell the end of STO if not fixed - I suggest either playing the market or increasing the cap. I love this game but it is becoming pointless and the numbers are dropping steadily.
Well, the last few times the numbers had dropped below sustainable levels (according to forum posts) they didn't. As well as the last few ends of STO weren't really ending STO. Actually, with all that's going on (more and more voice acting, skill system revamp, console expansion) it might seem that there actually are players and Cryptic are actually making a profit. And if they are getting into massively reclining numbers, they will find out themselves. And shockingly, consumer satisfaction will only be a point in as much as it keeps people at bay to enjoy the game, not as a "they want candy so we hand out candy for free" concept.
Disclaimer: I am not in the Zen/Dil market. I once traded up to 5 zen back and forth to see how it works but decided to use money for zen instead and at the same time not get dil that way. Though I might be tempted now.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I have to say at this high exchange rate STO is going to loose it new players base Let alone AOY wanting coming up, Starting a new toon. Hehe what would be funny not sure if this is intended or a exploit is to stop transferring in same accounts refined DIL to other toons that might drop some of the exchange rate.
Dunno. As a new player I didn't really look into zen/dil stuff and "how much can I refine for shinies". I wouldn't have been deterred then - maybe later, true, but then I'd already have been in the game.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Why everyone, who produces yet again another post about "oh nos, dil/zen exchange rate too high, we're DOOMED", assumes that producing "free" zen for f2p players is its primary and almost sole purpose ?
As far as I see, it is actually vice versa. The dil exchange in this game was designed primarly for people, who are willing to spend real money, to bypass dilithium grind.
Making it a source of zen for f2p players is just a bonus and partially PR move.
So as of now from the point of game design, it is WAI.
The reality of free to play is that it favors those willing to pay to support the game. The entire design is to draw you in enough to open your wallet. By running the game you accept this reality, and thus you cannot be surprised when this happens. I'm making a killing off of this because I'm willing to put $10 into the game- I enjoy playing it and I'm willing to pay subscription level money to do so.
On a personal note, I am LOVING the high Dill/Z rate... Having come back from a loooong break, my characters items need upgrading (roll on the upgrade weekend next month) , so spending a little $ for some Z and supporting the game I am rewarded with lots of lovely Dill for my upgrades.
On a personal note, I am LOVING the high Dill/Z rate... Having come back from a loooong break, my characters items need upgrading (roll on the upgrade weekend next month) , so spending a little $ for some Z and supporting the game I am rewarded with lots of lovely Dill for my upgrades.
Seems only the spend-shy are moaning.
this^
I hoping there is a Key Sale this Friday. I'll get 20$ worth of Zen and get a 10 key pack and change the rest to Dilithium for
upgrade weekend too.
Honestly, f2p'ers had a real good run. They've got nothing to complain about.
Frankly, I'm surprised it took Cryptic this long to find a way to bring that dil ex ratio up to near max 500/1.
Why should they do all that work, for people who have 0 desire to invest in the game ? And run many alts in order to skirt buying Zen with actual money ?
Sorry, but f2p'er complaining at this point are very self absorbed and selfish.
Instead of thanking them for the free ride over the years, they're instead throwing tantrums. Pretty disgusting.
But we are in the age of Entitlement. And they feel they're owed something.
What an awful attitude some have.
...This will spell the end of STO if not fixed - I suggest either playing the market or increasing the cap. ...and the numbers are dropping steadily
What numbers? Can you share your metrics? It was worse before this MMO went F2P but even with Steam metrics you cannot see a major drop. On the contrary there will be lots more players coming as a result of AOY and the new consoles.
The easiest and fastest solution--though may not be the best--is to have Cryptic drop the rate cap from 500 to 200. That way, the max 1 Zen could be worth is 200 Refined Dil. Granted, this would TRIBBLE off a lot of people.
The only people that plan would anger are the people who imagine they can sell their dilithium for 200:1 since a) there would be megatons of the stuff piled up against the cap and adding more would put you at the back of que that'll take weeks or months to clear out. And b) I would be far from the only person who is actually buying dilithium who would pull my money out of the system thinking "hell no, I'll grind it myself before I buy it for that much. Plenty of good things I can spend my zeni on other than pink mud-coin..."
Don't meddle with the invisible hand of the market. Also will be interesting to see where the market is 6 wks from now after players have all done all the AOY they can handle.
Well - any cap does meddle with the "invisible hand" of the market, which is overrated, too, as a "solve everything" deus ex machina.
And to make a point for F2P players: many of them are needed to fill the universe. This game would be way smaller without them. And that may reduce the fun for payers. Also, who is gonna get me my dil since I didn't really have time the last months due to RL and just now when our starbase is finally finishing?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Well - any cap does meddle with the "invisible hand" of the market, which is overrated, too, as a "solve everything" deus ex machina.
And to make a point for F2P players: many of them are needed to fill the universe. This game would be way smaller without them. And that may reduce the fun for payers. Also, who is gonna get me my dil since I didn't really have time the last months due to RL and just now when our starbase is finally finishing?
However having a few people putting in place new rules to the exchange which will effect thousands of people who play the game is something that should be thought about carefully....very carefully. Also for all the complaints about the current prices where will the exchange be in 2 months or 6 months? And how will changes that are implemented now affect that?
Why everyone, who produces yet again another post about "oh nos, dil/zen exchange rate too high, we're DOOMED", assumes that producing "free" zen for f2p players is its primary and almost sole purpose ?
As far as I see, it is actually vice versa. The dil exchange in this game was designed primarly for people, who are willing to spend real money, to bypass dilithium grind.
Making it a source of zen for f2p players is just a bonus and partially PR move.
So as of now from the point of game design, it is WAI.
portion I want people to pay close attention to below (changed Cryptic Points to Zen):
The final piece to this puzzle for us is the Currency Exchange, which is not yet available on Tribble. The Currency Exchange will allow players to trade their Dilithium for other players' Zen. Why is this important? What this means is that anyone who is willing to spend their time to get Dilithium can trade that away for Zen, which means anyone willing to spend enough time can get anything and everything from the C-Store without spending any money. What it also means is that players with Zen can trade their points to get Dilithium that they want to get the in-game gear and starships they want.
The key thing to note here is that Cryptic will not be selling Dilithium, so there will only be as much Dilithium available as the player base wants to trade away. The laws of supply and demand come into play here. If Dilithium is difficult to come by, it will have a high value. If it's easy to come by, its value will decrease.
Your view point is the reverse. I see it that the devs wanted both f2p players who don't spend money on the game and players who do spend money on the game to benefit from this as long as it is a good enough rate that one person feels like they're getting enough zen and the other person feels like they get enough dilithium. With a 500 dil cap I'd think a good number would be 250, since that's half of the cap.
The main problem though is that with a cap on refinement per day you can only move 8000 refined dil per day per character. so if I have 10 characters that I've got unrefined dil on, I'm moving 80,000 refined dil a day once I refine it. For someone coming into the game, without any new characters, the most they'll be able to move is 24,000 daily if they refine 8000 a day per character. I've seen people say they have millions of unrefined and because of how plentiful dil can be now between episodes rewarding it, queues rewarding it, reputation marks to dil (especially the ones if you have a lot of marks), battlezones and the elite marks, with an 8000 a day refinement cap for most, it's hard to make a dent in your supply if you farm more than you can refine.
Don't meddle with the invisible hand of the market. Also will be interesting to see where the market is 6 wks from now after players have all done all the AOY they can handle.
Don't forget 6 weeks is literally half of the time that devs report that they have to come out with new content to keep players logging in.
Evilmark, what is good for you isn't necessarily good for someone who can't afford to pay for a 30 dollar ship. That's a 2 month sub right there. The only reason it's good for you is that the higher the price of dilthium there is, the more you'll get for zen, but the less overall someone who depends on trading that dilithium to you will get so they can spend something from the c-store.
Let me show you the math for this.
At the current exchange rate (474-5 currently) for 1 day's worth of dilithium on one toon: 16 zen.
To get 2 character slots @ 625 zen, one would need to be on the game for about 39-40 days just to get those, while one T6 ship would be a little more than 6 months to get.
Even if someone were using 3 character slots total for 48 zen per day, 1 character slot, it's still nearly 2 weeks of playing just to afford 2 character slots and 2 months to get a T6 ship from the c-store.
Someone has to put Zen on the market for someone to be able to buy it with Dil. Free-to-play means actually you pay $$ so others can play for free. Dil to Zen is the baby of F2P. Good ships, modules, traits, etc are put in the C-store and only you will have to use Zen to buy the ships directly or use your luck with a key + lockbox.
At some point people will stop using $$ to get their Zen and start using their collected "free" Dil. But for the Zen > Dil and keys on the Exchange, someone will have to use their $$ and buy Zen (or keys) and put them up there.
That's why I prefer a subscription. Maybe fewer players will play it. But if I "work" for somethin, I might get that item after 2 months. Not that there's a surprise after 2 months and the inflation of Zen suddenly requires me an additional month to grind Dil.
Personally I also strongly believe that in case of subscription the devs would actually add (more) innovating and fun elements to their game and not have to waste their time on fancy whale-bait and other clever ways to get more money out of our pockets in order to pay their bills.
Don't get me wrong, the C-store has a function. I get it that some people do not have time to spend 90 hours a week in a game and want to get that one ship. Rather they are going to give their $$ to third-party goldsellers, let them spend it on Zen. Yet, make sure that people can also get those C-store items by playing the game in a reasonable amount of time. (not after a year or instantly after 1 quest).
Honestly, f2p'ers had a real good run. They've got nothing to complain about.
Frankly, I'm surprised it took Cryptic this long to find a way to bring that dil ex ratio up to near max 500/1.
Why should they do all that work, for people who have 0 desire to invest in the game ? And run many alts in order to skirt buying Zen with actual money ?
Sorry, but f2p'er complaining at this point are very self absorbed and selfish.
Instead of thanking them for the free ride over the years, they're instead throwing tantrums. Pretty disgusting.
But we are in the age of Entitlement. And they feel they're owed something.
What an awful attitude some have.
I was Playing before this game went F2p and DIL rate was at 390 back then. and Finally it went to F2p and the Dil rate came down as low as 99 that was the time the Starbase system came out.
Comments
which of course they are unlikely to do.
Any other dil-sink (holdings, sellable (cosmetic) dil-items etc.) will only work for a short time
until the market is saturated and they become so cheap that selling Dil for Zen is a better option
again.
Other things might work in the long run but the sink would be to small to expect a noticable
difference on the market.
E.g. spending Dil to remove a "bound to character/account" from an item that is bound due to
equipping it (so not for items that are generally "bind on pickup"), in depenence on ratity and
MK.
Or being able to remove the the last added mod from an item (not reduce the tier though). So
if you don't like the mod on your crafted gear you can spent Dil (in dependence on rarity and MK)
and remove it so you can have another, more expensive go.
Well, the last few times the numbers had dropped below sustainable levels (according to forum posts) they didn't. As well as the last few ends of STO weren't really ending STO. Actually, with all that's going on (more and more voice acting, skill system revamp, console expansion) it might seem that there actually are players and Cryptic are actually making a profit. And if they are getting into massively reclining numbers, they will find out themselves. And shockingly, consumer satisfaction will only be a point in as much as it keeps people at bay to enjoy the game, not as a "they want candy so we hand out candy for free" concept.
Disclaimer: I am not in the Zen/Dil market. I once traded up to 5 zen back and forth to see how it works but decided to use money for zen instead and at the same time not get dil that way. Though I might be tempted now.
As far as I see, it is actually vice versa. The dil exchange in this game was designed primarly for people, who are willing to spend real money, to bypass dilithium grind.
Making it a source of zen for f2p players is just a bonus and partially PR move.
So as of now from the point of game design, it is WAI.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
Seems only the spend-shy are moaning.
I hoping there is a Key Sale this Friday. I'll get 20$ worth of Zen and get a 10 key pack and change the rest to Dilithium for
upgrade weekend too.
Frankly, I'm surprised it took Cryptic this long to find a way to bring that dil ex ratio up to near max 500/1.
Why should they do all that work, for people who have 0 desire to invest in the game ? And run many alts in order to skirt buying Zen with actual money ?
Sorry, but f2p'er complaining at this point are very self absorbed and selfish.
Instead of thanking them for the free ride over the years, they're instead throwing tantrums. Pretty disgusting.
But we are in the age of Entitlement. And they feel they're owed something.
What an awful attitude some have.
What numbers? Can you share your metrics? It was worse before this MMO went F2P but even with Steam metrics you cannot see a major drop. On the contrary there will be lots more players coming as a result of AOY and the new consoles.
Original STO beta tester.
And to make a point for F2P players: many of them are needed to fill the universe. This game would be way smaller without them. And that may reduce the fun for payers. Also, who is gonna get me my dil since I didn't really have time the last months due to RL and just now when our starbase is finally finishing?
However having a few people putting in place new rules to the exchange which will effect thousands of people who play the game is something that should be thought about carefully....very carefully. Also for all the complaints about the current prices where will the exchange be in 2 months or 6 months? And how will changes that are implemented now affect that?
I know this blog post is old compared to today, but I'm hoping it serves a good point: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/1059290-path-to-f2p-dev-blog-_11
portion I want people to pay close attention to below (changed Cryptic Points to Zen):
Your view point is the reverse. I see it that the devs wanted both f2p players who don't spend money on the game and players who do spend money on the game to benefit from this as long as it is a good enough rate that one person feels like they're getting enough zen and the other person feels like they get enough dilithium. With a 500 dil cap I'd think a good number would be 250, since that's half of the cap.
The main problem though is that with a cap on refinement per day you can only move 8000 refined dil per day per character. so if I have 10 characters that I've got unrefined dil on, I'm moving 80,000 refined dil a day once I refine it. For someone coming into the game, without any new characters, the most they'll be able to move is 24,000 daily if they refine 8000 a day per character. I've seen people say they have millions of unrefined and because of how plentiful dil can be now between episodes rewarding it, queues rewarding it, reputation marks to dil (especially the ones if you have a lot of marks), battlezones and the elite marks, with an 8000 a day refinement cap for most, it's hard to make a dent in your supply if you farm more than you can refine.
Don't forget 6 weeks is literally half of the time that devs report that they have to come out with new content to keep players logging in.
Someone has to put Zen on the market for someone to be able to buy it with Dil. Free-to-play means actually you pay $$ so others can play for free. Dil to Zen is the baby of F2P. Good ships, modules, traits, etc are put in the C-store and only you will have to use Zen to buy the ships directly or use your luck with a key + lockbox.
At some point people will stop using $$ to get their Zen and start using their collected "free" Dil. But for the Zen > Dil and keys on the Exchange, someone will have to use their $$ and buy Zen (or keys) and put them up there.
That's why I prefer a subscription. Maybe fewer players will play it. But if I "work" for somethin, I might get that item after 2 months. Not that there's a surprise after 2 months and the inflation of Zen suddenly requires me an additional month to grind Dil.
Personally I also strongly believe that in case of subscription the devs would actually add (more) innovating and fun elements to their game and not have to waste their time on fancy whale-bait and other clever ways to get more money out of our pockets in order to pay their bills.
Don't get me wrong, the C-store has a function. I get it that some people do not have time to spend 90 hours a week in a game and want to get that one ship. Rather they are going to give their $$ to third-party goldsellers, let them spend it on Zen. Yet, make sure that people can also get those C-store items by playing the game in a reasonable amount of time. (not after a year or instantly after 1 quest).
I was Playing before this game went F2p and DIL rate was at 390 back then. and Finally it went to F2p and the Dil rate came down as low as 99 that was the time the Starbase system came out.