Omega Kinetic Shearing is an exception, and not in need of re-writing rules for. This is simply because its effectiveness is equal to a proportion of the damage that triggers it. Allowing this to additionally be affected by damage enhancements would create a "double-dipping" situation, since the original damage was already subject to enhancements.
Again, 100% not asking for a change of the rules inside the engine - I'm asking that the description text be written so it parses correctly when read by a human player. If Omega Kinetic Shearing is not going to be affected by an ability that affects all Damage-over-Time (and Hazards) then remove the term 'damage over time' from OKS's text (yes, I know it currently calls it a "DoT"). No change in mechanics. Just an adjustment to the description.
I suspect this is just one of the differences between writing a game for a computer and for a tabletop audience - in the later case if a player can't read it and parse it correctly It Doesn't Work . I'm very sensitive to the player experience looking at game mechanics text. Same as it annoys the poo out of me the Avenger's V.A.T.A. console says it can be equipped to "any Federation Battlecruiser" and yet it can't be equipped to the Concorde, Geneva, and Presidio... which by any reasonable use of the English language are Federation Battle Cruisers. Grrr.
Predictive Decay Algorithms is a lovely piece of mechanical design, but its existence generates the need for a clean-up pass though the game text to clearly delineate what it does and does not affect, and it's elevating "damage-over-time" to a 'reserved for specific meanings' status that needs to be respected throughout the rest of the game. If you'd like to keep the more informal language then that clean-up pass has to happen or your just gonna get confused players asking the question over and over until the clean-up gets done anyway. So I'd rather see it done before the general public starts banging their heads against it .
Also the fact that the torpedo is chroniton. Though thats not really the issue, more that I am guessing the torp and energy procs don't stack.
Sorry, I meant "share the stack limit".
I thought the energy weapons were likely to provide all 5 stacks pretty quickly. Thus I thought there was little point for the same proc to be on the torpedo as well (unless you are running the single energy weapon and projectile or just the projectile only). However under normal circumstances this is not true. FaW however (let me investigate this further)...
But yes, if the cooldown reduction is a limitless 33% chance of -5 sec boff cooldown. Then it definately would have its uses. And is not overpowered.
I thought the energy weapons were likely to provide all 5 stacks pretty quickly. Thus I thought there was little point for the same proc to be on the torpedo as well (unless you are running the single energy weapon and projectile or just the projectile only). However under normal circumstances this is not true. FaW however (let me investigate this further)...
Procs are usually per-cycle not per-hit, so FAW won't make any difference - you'll still get one proc chance every 5 seconds (since beam cycle is fire for 4 secs and rest for 1 sec). Being limited to one energy weapon with a 2.5% chance per cycle means that over 60 seconds (the uptime of the buff) you'll normally have 60/5= 12 chances to proc. Or a 36.75% chance of having 5 stacks up after the full 60 seconds (you're more likely to have 3-4 stacks up).
Haste effects such as the "Emergency Weapon Cycle" trait should effect the number of procs over time though.
FaW procs disruptor (as timeout resets to 15secs many more times with FaW) and coalition disruptor significantly faster than non-FaW. I presume this happens with all procs. As in FaW often gets coalition to stack to 5 with 6 coalition disruptor beams, this can even sometimes happen in a firing cycle or two. I have spent ages without Fire at Will and never got it past 2 (think I might have seen 3 once or twice, but some of them may have built up from FaW, or a really rare event). This happens with multiple targets and individual targets (with FaW I at least sometimes get 4 coalition stacks on multiple targets (I am not sure if it builds on targets equally since in the places I tested it was hard to keep my arc on more than one enemy)). Super high dps with coalitions, now you know why. I have known this for a bit. I tested it and then after testing it, found out others had already tested it.
But really doesn't make much of a difference for PvP with the state of the game (well it could drastically affect things, but the likelihood of it being an issue atm is rather slim). And well the dpsers might get upset if it was fixed. So I haven't made an effort to tell the devs. And they might know anyway from other people or themselves.
It is probably best not to tell most of the playerbase about this. As some people may get a bad name. Also, if the devs don't fix it... I only have 6 mk x coalitions that I got from ships (actually I can probably delete krenim science vessel and reclaim it for more). I don't want to spend my time practising in PvE for best dps. And I don't like coalitions visually (some people love their visuals though).
Edit: I tested these things today, and some of it in the past as well.
Edit 2: Well actually, I believe that dpsers don't get THAT upset if reduced in effectiveness due to overpowered gear or if the same thing happens to everyone. At the very least: a few of the higher coalition dpsers know they are broken (highly contributes to the fact that I say don't spread the word). Of course this FaW thing makes stacking procs much better than non stacking ones. Of course the issue is more: coalition disruptors are owned by people able to afford them...
FaW procs disruptor (as timeout resets to 15secs many more times with FaW) and coalition disruptor significantly faster than non-FaW. I presume this happens with all procs. As in FaW often gets coalition to stack to 5 with 6 coalition disruptor beams, this can even sometimes happen in a firing cycle or two. I have spent ages without Fire at Will and never got it past 2 (think I might have seen 3 once or twice, but some of them may have built up from FaW, or a really rare event). This happens with multiple targets and individual targets (with FaW I at least sometimes get 4 coalition stacks on multiple targets (I am not sure if it builds on targets equally since in the places I tested it was hard to keep my arc on more than one enemy)). Super high dps with coalitions, now you know why. I have known this for a bit. I tested it and then after testing it, found out others had already tested it.
Disruptor Procs have always been per-cycle, and are in fact intended to be so (see here)
Whilst I ran several tests on Disruptor Procs under different Weapon Modes myself shortly before i11.5, it's possible that one of the more recent patches has caused an old issue with FAW allowing Procs to double-dip to rear its head again. Whenever that bug was active, certain 2.5%-chance Procs (such as those from Plasma Consoles) had a chance to roll a proc both for every shot and every cycle under BFAW. This also affected "Supremacy" stacks. See here for expected proc rates.
That said, the ridiculous levels of performance noted here and here with CoalDis weaponry debuffs have largely been scaled down by the blanket change to 'resistible-resistances'. The amended DRR formula is available here under the heading "Changes to the Damage Resistance Formula on Tribble".
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Back on topic: I'm still very interested to find out exactly what is affected by the new DoT buffs and what isn't.
We've established that Activated DoTs (Like Hyperonic Radiation) and Activated Hazards (Like Gravity Well) should now be affected by Predictive Decay Algorithms.
But is the damage from Attached Hazards (like the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo's Cloud or the Gravimetric Photon Torpedo's Rifts) or the damage from Attached DoTs (like the Agony Phaser proc) affected?
[Note: As players unfortunately we currently have no way to telling what's-flagged-as-what short of guessing, but I assume that those are the categories these abilities fall into...]
Back on topic: I'm still very interested to find out exactly what is affected by the new DoT buffs and what isn't.
We've established that Activated DoTs (Like Hyperonic Radiation) and Activated Hazards (Like Gravity Well) should now be affected by Predictive Decay Algorithms.
But is the damage from Attached Hazards (like the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo's Cloud or the Gravimetric Photon Torpedo's Rifts) or the damage from Attached DoTs (like the Agony Phaser proc) affected?
[Note: As players unfortunately we currently have no way to telling what's-flagged-as-what short of guessing, but I assume that those are the categories these abilities fall into...]
It should benefit those. We can mark powers to not benefit from this, such as Omega Kinetic Shearing, but that's an exception rather than the rule. With that being said, the DoT magnitude and resistance stuff is listening for if the DAMAGE portion of a power is marked as being either a Hazard or a DoT. I'm going through and making sure powers are properly marked, but it's possible something might slip through.
This won't generally benefit 'channeled' stuff, such as Tachyon Beam or Destabilizing Resonance Beam.
It should benefit those. We can mark powers to not benefit from this, such as Omega Kinetic Shearing, but that's an exception rather than the rule. With that being said, the DoT magnitude and resistance stuff is listening for if the DAMAGE portion of a power is marked as being either a Hazard or a DoT. I'm going through and making sure powers are properly marked, but it's possible something might slip through.
This won't generally benefit 'channeled' stuff, such as Tachyon Beam or Destabilizing Resonance Beam.
Thanks for the clarification, and again for the thorough checking. Is greatly appreciated!
It should benefit those. We can mark powers to not benefit from this, such as Omega Kinetic Shearing, but that's an exception rather than the rule. With that being said, the DoT magnitude and resistance stuff is listening for if the DAMAGE portion of a power is marked as being either a Hazard or a DoT. I'm going through and making sure powers are properly marked, but it's possible something might slip through.
This won't generally benefit 'channeled' stuff, such as Tachyon Beam or Destabilizing Resonance Beam.
Thanks for the clarification, and again for the thorough checking. Is greatly appreciated!
I might have exaggerated self modulating fires role in the hull down before shields down behaviour. I am not sure. I think a lot of it might be due to extreme damage resistance debuff as well. Sorry about that.
I still have not done proper calculations/thinking to determine if warp core efficiency is worth it etc either. And I have not fixed other issues in my posts either.
Predictive Decay Algorithms (and the other Damage-over-Time stuff in this rep) has been updated to affect abilities marked as either Damage-over-Time or Hazards.
Improved Polarize Hull
After achieving level 5 in your Temporal Science Vessel T6's Starship Mastery, you will unlock the Improved Polarize Hull starship trait. While this trait is slotted, activating Polarize Hull will periodically remove movement impairing effects as well as damage over time and hazard effects for the duration of the ability.
Judging from the similar language, this ability will NOT remove the DoT from kinetic sheering?
Judging from the similar language, this ability will NOT remove the DoT from kinetic sheering?
Even if it did, that might not be a bad thing for dedicated Torpedo boats.
If old stacks of OKS were wiped out by PH, then fresh stacks could apply from other torp hits.
But Player testing has suggested that old OKS stacks do not get overwritten by fresh stacks, meaning that only the first three torpedo hits in any salvo will benefit from it.
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but this looks to be the way it's currently working - see here.
In a normal encounter, a savvy Torpedo Boat captain will fire off Shield-Debuffing Torpedos first such as the Neutronic or Quantum Phase, followed up by heavy-damage torpedos. In that case, OKS will only apply to the first (lower-damage) torpedos, not the subsequent (higher-damage) ones.
If PH wiped out OKS stacks every few seconds, then more torpedo hits would have a OKS stack slot "free" to start applying their own damage from OKS.
Apologies, Please ignore this.
I've just performed >> my own testing << and it looks like OKS isn't limited to 3 Stacks anymore.
I have error checked all my feedback posts for anything coming with AOY (no errors that haven't be corrected by some other forum post later in the same forum thread (well I suppose my comment about torp procs being less effective then energy procs may be wrong in certain contexts)) and uploaded the combatlog of my mine test that I said I would do. I also have been meaning to say that the Molecular Reconstruction Mechanic - Support Configurations reduction in energy damage is good at preventing energy builds from using Support Configuration but not good as a drawback (part of why I think the other drawbacks from the other things should be removed).
Comments
Again, 100% not asking for a change of the rules inside the engine - I'm asking that the description text be written so it parses correctly when read by a human player. If Omega Kinetic Shearing is not going to be affected by an ability that affects all Damage-over-Time (and Hazards) then remove the term 'damage over time' from OKS's text (yes, I know it currently calls it a "DoT"). No change in mechanics. Just an adjustment to the description.
I suspect this is just one of the differences between writing a game for a computer and for a tabletop audience - in the later case if a player can't read it and parse it correctly It Doesn't Work
Predictive Decay Algorithms is a lovely piece of mechanical design, but its existence generates the need for a clean-up pass though the game text to clearly delineate what it does and does not affect, and it's elevating "damage-over-time" to a 'reserved for specific meanings' status that needs to be respected throughout the rest of the game. If you'd like to keep the more informal language then that clean-up pass has to happen or your just gonna get confused players asking the question over and over until the clean-up gets done anyway. So I'd rather see it done before the general public starts banging their heads against it
I thought the energy weapons were likely to provide all 5 stacks pretty quickly. Thus I thought there was little point for the same proc to be on the torpedo as well (unless you are running the single energy weapon and projectile or just the projectile only). However under normal circumstances this is not true. FaW however (let me investigate this further)...
But yes, if the cooldown reduction is a limitless 33% chance of -5 sec boff cooldown. Then it definately would have its uses. And is not overpowered.
Procs are usually per-cycle not per-hit, so FAW won't make any difference - you'll still get one proc chance every 5 seconds (since beam cycle is fire for 4 secs and rest for 1 sec). Being limited to one energy weapon with a 2.5% chance per cycle means that over 60 seconds (the uptime of the buff) you'll normally have 60/5= 12 chances to proc. Or a 36.75% chance of having 5 stacks up after the full 60 seconds (you're more likely to have 3-4 stacks up).
Haste effects such as the "Emergency Weapon Cycle" trait should effect the number of procs over time though.
But really doesn't make much of a difference for PvP with the state of the game (well it could drastically affect things, but the likelihood of it being an issue atm is rather slim). And well the dpsers might get upset if it was fixed. So I haven't made an effort to tell the devs. And they might know anyway from other people or themselves.
It is probably best not to tell most of the playerbase about this. As some people may get a bad name. Also, if the devs don't fix it... I only have 6 mk x coalitions that I got from ships (actually I can probably delete krenim science vessel and reclaim it for more). I don't want to spend my time practising in PvE for best dps. And I don't like coalitions visually (some people love their visuals though).
Edit: I tested these things today, and some of it in the past as well.
Edit 2: Well actually, I believe that dpsers don't get THAT upset if reduced in effectiveness due to overpowered gear or if the same thing happens to everyone. At the very least: a few of the higher coalition dpsers know they are broken (highly contributes to the fact that I say don't spread the word). Of course this FaW thing makes stacking procs much better than non stacking ones. Of course the issue is more: coalition disruptors are owned by people able to afford them...
Disruptor Procs have always been per-cycle, and are in fact intended to be so (see here)
Whilst I ran several tests on Disruptor Procs under different Weapon Modes myself shortly before i11.5, it's possible that one of the more recent patches has caused an old issue with FAW allowing Procs to double-dip to rear its head again. Whenever that bug was active, certain 2.5%-chance Procs (such as those from Plasma Consoles) had a chance to roll a proc both for every shot and every cycle under BFAW. This also affected "Supremacy" stacks. See here for expected proc rates.
That said, the ridiculous levels of performance noted here and here with CoalDis weaponry debuffs have largely been scaled down by the blanket change to 'resistible-resistances'. The amended DRR formula is available here under the heading "Changes to the Damage Resistance Formula on Tribble".
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Back on topic: I'm still very interested to find out exactly what is affected by the new DoT buffs and what isn't.
We've established that Activated DoTs (Like Hyperonic Radiation) and Activated Hazards (Like Gravity Well) should now be affected by Predictive Decay Algorithms.
But is the damage from Attached Hazards (like the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo's Cloud or the Gravimetric Photon Torpedo's Rifts) or the damage from Attached DoTs (like the Agony Phaser proc) affected?
[Note: As players unfortunately we currently have no way to telling what's-flagged-as-what short of guessing, but I assume that those are the categories these abilities fall into...]
It should benefit those. We can mark powers to not benefit from this, such as Omega Kinetic Shearing, but that's an exception rather than the rule. With that being said, the DoT magnitude and resistance stuff is listening for if the DAMAGE portion of a power is marked as being either a Hazard or a DoT. I'm going through and making sure powers are properly marked, but it's possible something might slip through.
This won't generally benefit 'channeled' stuff, such as Tachyon Beam or Destabilizing Resonance Beam.
Thanks for the clarification, and again for the thorough checking. Is greatly appreciated!
Thanks for following up on this.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I still have not done proper calculations/thinking to determine if warp core efficiency is worth it etc either. And I have not fixed other issues in my posts either.
My time management is extremely chaotic atm.
@crypticrock a quick question:
Judging from the similar language, this ability will NOT remove the DoT from kinetic sheering?
Even if it did, that might not be a bad thing for dedicated Torpedo boats.
If old stacks of OKS were wiped out by PH, then fresh stacks could apply from other torp hits.
More information:
As @Odenknight has highlighted in the past, OKS stacks last for 6 seconds and it stacks up to three times from each source.
But Player testing has suggested that old OKS stacks do not get overwritten by fresh stacks, meaning that only the first three torpedo hits in any salvo will benefit from it.
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but this looks to be the way it's currently working - see here.
In a normal encounter, a savvy Torpedo Boat captain will fire off Shield-Debuffing Torpedos first such as the Neutronic or Quantum Phase, followed up by heavy-damage torpedos. In that case, OKS will only apply to the first (lower-damage) torpedos, not the subsequent (higher-damage) ones.
If PH wiped out OKS stacks every few seconds, then more torpedo hits would have a OKS stack slot "free" to start applying their own damage from OKS.
Apologies, Please ignore this.
I've just performed >> my own testing << and it looks like OKS isn't limited to 3 Stacks anymore.