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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Curious question about EV Suit Helmets.

captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
edited May 2016 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
In Star Trek Online we see certain NPCs in EV suits that have transparent visors that you can see their faces through. One of the Romulans on Viranat and D'tan are two examples. However, all EV suits work by players and BOFFs have opaque visors/helmets. I've always been curious about this. Does anyone know if this is just a choice on the part of the developers or some kind of a technical limitation involving the fact that player avatars and BOFFs are customizable?

Comments

  • ikonn#1068 ikonn
    ikonn#1068
         Member Posts: 1,449 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    I think that was a decision so you could see the face of who you are talking to. Example... D'Tan at the end of the T-5 Romulan reputation mission.
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
    Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    ixionveridian wrote: »
    I think that was a decision so you could see the face of who you are talking to. Example... D'Tan at the end of the T-5 Romulan reputation mission.

    Do we know if it's possible to make it an option for player EV suits?
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn
    ikonn#1068
         Member Posts: 1,449 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    Possible? Yes, it is, but I don't see them doing it.
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
    Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    The seen with D'tan when I saw it had him clipping with it as it does not move with the character properly. And he had a known head type. Doing that with many of our other characters might be a bit much.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    This would be pretty neat.

    Linked to this, could we please get EV Suits added as costumes in the tailor so we can customise them? All other outfits and clothing has some degree of customisation but not EV Suits, just seems a bit of a shame.
    SulMatuul.png
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    The seen with D'tan when I saw it had him clipping with it as it does not move with the character properly. And he had a known head type. Doing that with many of our other characters might be a bit much.

    That's actually a good point. With the various ranges of heads and body sizes characters can have it makes sense the environmental suits for characters are forced costumes.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    ixionveridian wrote: »
    I think that was a decision so you could see the face of who you are talking to. Example... D'Tan at the end of the T-5 Romulan reputation mission.

    But Kal Dano didn't feature in a cut scene so it wasn't really important to see who we were talking to in that one episode and yet he had a transparent helmet. Or at least, it wouldn't be more important than seeing and being able to recognise the faces of my own bridge officers.

    So I don't think that was the main reason they made some different helmets. It's more likely to be what @feiqa said.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    Another problem that someone already mentioned was the clipping. Talking heads move. The EV Suit helmets don't. So heads clip through.
    Basically they're like modern NASA Space Suits. There is no neck to the suit.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    In other words, it's too much work for too little gain.

    Personally, I'd rather take the option to turn off the suit visuals completely.
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    In other words, it's too much work for too little gain.

    Personally, I'd rather take the option to turn off the suit visuals completely.

    You used to be able to back when you could just disable armor visuals.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    In other words, it's too much work for too little gain.

    Personally, I'd rather take the option to turn off the suit visuals completely.

    I would like to turn our unlocked armour visuals into our suit visuals for the few times we need them. Honor guard or Maco walking the hull of DS9 anyone?

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    I just use the Solanae suits anyways. Although my main did get a Fed EV suit from the C-Store before they became Lifer rewards.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I just use the Solanae suits anyways. Although my main did get a Fed EV suit from the C-Store before they became Lifer rewards.

    Same here. Love the look of the Solanase suits.
  • xayssxayss Member Posts: 391 Arc User
    no only eve suit remenber many reputation suit dont have option to turn off visual
    nexus.jpg

  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    feiqa wrote: »
    The seen with D'tan when I saw it had him clipping with it as it does not move with the character properly. And he had a known head type. Doing that with many of our other characters might be a bit much.

    Essentially this.

    When you "put on" an EV suit, we basically just swap your whole costume out with that of the EV suit. If a player's EV suit had a transparent visor, you'd see it was empty inside! (G-G-G-GHOSTS!)

    So, the EV suit's Helmet IS your head.

    Having both your head AND the EV suit helmet causes a lot of problems with clipping (as others in the thread have already deduced). You can scale your head a bunch of ways, add horns, flesh-beards, dreadlocks, etc. None of that stuff has it's own collision, so, unlike a real helmet, there's no way to keep it all inside. As such, it all just spills out wherever the helmet isn't big enough. Add to that animations, and you have a severely complicated problem that is basically just not worth dealing with.

    The reason we can do it with NPCs is that we have control over them. We can make sure that their hair/fleshy bits don't stick out too far. And if need be, we can make a custom head/helmet to work for THAT NPC.

    That's not something we can reasonably do for players. It would be much easier if we just knew everyone was human, and thus we could just remove your hair, or something. But we can't go around lopping off the antennae of Andorians, or the beards of Tellarites just so they fit in their helmets.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
    19843299196_235e44bcf6_o.jpg
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Cool explanation Taco.

    Out of interest can we not add the suits to the tailor so that at the very least people can choose what they looks like? I mean stuff like the MACO costume is practically an EV suit anyway. Be nice to be able to customise them somewhat.
    Then have the game auto-select the outfit for the EV suit whenever you equip it in game. Sort of like a customisable version of what already happens.
    SulMatuul.png
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    Oh, that's awesome! Thanks a lot for explaining things in such detail, Taco!
  • castsbugccastsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    tacofangs wrote: »
    feiqa wrote: »
    The seen with D'tan when I saw it had him clipping with it as it does not move with the character properly. And he had a known head type. Doing that with many of our other characters might be a bit much.

    Essentially this.

    When you "put on" an EV suit, we basically just swap your whole costume out with that of the EV suit. If a player's EV suit had a transparent visor, you'd see it was empty inside! (G-G-G-GHOSTS!)

    So, the EV suit's Helmet IS your head.

    Having both your head AND the EV suit helmet causes a lot of problems with clipping (as others in the thread have already deduced). You can scale your head a bunch of ways, add horns, flesh-beards, dreadlocks, etc. None of that stuff has it's own collision, so, unlike a real helmet, there's no way to keep it all inside. As such, it all just spills out wherever the helmet isn't big enough. Add to that animations, and you have a severely complicated problem that is basically just not worth dealing with.

    The reason we can do it with NPCs is that we have control over them. We can make sure that their hair/fleshy bits don't stick out too far. And if need be, we can make a custom head/helmet to work for THAT NPC.

    That's not something we can reasonably do for players. It would be much easier if we just knew everyone was human, and thus we could just remove your hair, or something. But we can't go around lopping off the antennae of Andorians, or the beards of Tellarites just so they fit in their helmets.

    could you just put a skull in there? Im not saying its a Dr Who reference or anything, but...you could make it flaming, so it will go faster :D
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    castsbugc wrote: »
    tacofangs wrote: »
    feiqa wrote: »
    The seen with D'tan when I saw it had him clipping with it as it does not move with the character properly. And he had a known head type. Doing that with many of our other characters might be a bit much.

    Essentially this.

    When you "put on" an EV suit, we basically just swap your whole costume out with that of the EV suit. If a player's EV suit had a transparent visor, you'd see it was empty inside! (G-G-G-GHOSTS!)

    So, the EV suit's Helmet IS your head.

    Having both your head AND the EV suit helmet causes a lot of problems with clipping (as others in the thread have already deduced). You can scale your head a bunch of ways, add horns, flesh-beards, dreadlocks, etc. None of that stuff has it's own collision, so, unlike a real helmet, there's no way to keep it all inside. As such, it all just spills out wherever the helmet isn't big enough. Add to that animations, and you have a severely complicated problem that is basically just not worth dealing with.

    The reason we can do it with NPCs is that we have control over them. We can make sure that their hair/fleshy bits don't stick out too far. And if need be, we can make a custom head/helmet to work for THAT NPC.

    That's not something we can reasonably do for players. It would be much easier if we just knew everyone was human, and thus we could just remove your hair, or something. But we can't go around lopping off the antennae of Andorians, or the beards of Tellarites just so they fit in their helmets.

    could you just put a skull in there? Im not saying its a Dr Who reference or anything, but...you could make it flaming, so it will go faster :D

    Hey! Who turned out the lights?
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Cool explanation Taco.

    Out of interest can we not add the suits to the tailor so that at the very least people can choose what they looks like? I mean stuff like the MACO costume is practically an EV suit anyway. Be nice to be able to customise them somewhat.
    Then have the game auto-select the outfit for the EV suit whenever you equip it in game. Sort of like a customisable version of what already happens.

    I don't think it's as easy as all that.

    I'm reasonably sure that the EV Suit is a full swap for your entire normal costume. We just change it over to a pre-built costume. It'd be the same as me changing into Admiral Quinn, or B'Vat or whatever. There's no customization of those, because they're single units.

    castsbugc wrote: »
    tacofangs wrote: »
    feiqa wrote: »
    The seen with D'tan when I saw it had him clipping with it as it does not move with the character properly. And he had a known head type. Doing that with many of our other characters might be a bit much.

    Essentially this.

    When you "put on" an EV suit, we basically just swap your whole costume out with that of the EV suit. If a player's EV suit had a transparent visor, you'd see it was empty inside! (G-G-G-GHOSTS!)

    So, the EV suit's Helmet IS your head.

    Having both your head AND the EV suit helmet causes a lot of problems with clipping (as others in the thread have already deduced). You can scale your head a bunch of ways, add horns, flesh-beards, dreadlocks, etc. None of that stuff has it's own collision, so, unlike a real helmet, there's no way to keep it all inside. As such, it all just spills out wherever the helmet isn't big enough. Add to that animations, and you have a severely complicated problem that is basically just not worth dealing with.

    The reason we can do it with NPCs is that we have control over them. We can make sure that their hair/fleshy bits don't stick out too far. And if need be, we can make a custom head/helmet to work for THAT NPC.

    That's not something we can reasonably do for players. It would be much easier if we just knew everyone was human, and thus we could just remove your hair, or something. But we can't go around lopping off the antennae of Andorians, or the beards of Tellarites just so they fit in their helmets.

    could you just put a skull in there? Im not saying its a Dr Who reference or anything, but...you could make it flaming, so it will go faster :D

    I'll paint some stripes on the sides too.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
    19843299196_235e44bcf6_o.jpg
  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Hm, I think what people really want is the option to have an EV suit functionality added to things like the MACO costume.

    I would TOTALLY love that to be possible with such costumes, especially the Omega Force one.
  • castsbugccastsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    castsbugc wrote: »

    could you just put a skull in there? Im not saying its a Dr Who reference or anything, but...you could make it flaming, so it will go faster :dizzy:

    I'll paint some stripes on the sides too.
    Good! the original TOS ones had racing stripes and I would hate to feel left out!
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