PVP has a great deal of variety which is why people like it. You never know who or what you may encounter which is part of the thrill and different builds suit different playstyles and match styles with specific strengths and weaknesses. It's a giant game of rock, paper, scissors so in order to be good at one thing you may suck at another. Most people consider it the most difficult content in the game and they are correct. If you don't like a challenge go play NPC's because there is no reason to dumb down PVP be making multiple builds obsolete.
Otherwise play in a league with rules like Vanilla PVP or play with friends.
Keeping in mind it would kick certain PVP builds square in the balls. Alpha strikers and Vapers to name a few.
And that would be a bad thing why? yeah it would make them angry, but it would make PvP a heck of a lot less frustrating for the rest of us.
it'd also hit sci torp boats, and healers.
Torp builds are already in a minority, adding an effect that basically goes "hey, you can NEVER deal damage, gfy" is, I think, not something that should be done. Resisting one torp? Sure. Even one torp out of a salvo can still be the difference between life and death.
Well...I see this as a boon for all ships..the capped reflect i mean. It will add to those already using an energy reflect build (so 16 seconds maybe) as well as giving pvp tank (almost all heals) a passive defensive ability every 15 seconds..Won't really matter much in a 5v5 (too much going on)
I'll have to check to see if it's locked out by fbp or not..
I would consider slotting this 2nd spec if it negates entire salvos at a time. It would be nice for those of us without pilot ships to share in some of those immunities. It seems like all I see are pilot ships with torp spread and kemocite, with whatever shield penetration that can be stacked on a build. If not, I would love to see the devs "normalize" the pilot maneuvers so that there was a longer cool down on them.
People can still "vape" without shield penetration. It's not necessary to kill someone, people used to kill others all the time without it.
Also, torpedo builds are already overpowered as it is in PVP thanks to shield penetration and other things. I have no problem with a defense against them, in fact I welcome it.
I just cannot express how happy I would be if I could take a shield tank into PVP again and not get blown up at full shield strength.
Maybe make this if the torp hit: hits for over your total hull HP. And maybe do this with energy weapons (and everything else) as well.
PvE: you are most likely going to be hit with a small torp that is insignificant before a instakiller one. (e.g. in a Borg match)
PvP:
The other team is probably going to have ships or pets with torps that do next to nothing vs a instakiller, but if they don't that instakiller is going to have the first hit blocked. Kinda Weird. This would also make ships with torp hanger pets with a player that has high torp shots much more effective in 1v1 (get pets to hit first, goes in for the kill).
Though in 1v1 a lot of instakill builds would never work on the first (presumably decloak) but they might on others. But then the enemy could just cloak or something and wait 60 seconds. They also have to crit hit now again within 60 seconds (unless they are super OP and don't need to crith to kill). Tons more times if the ship has the Zahl Starship trait (no death for 8 seconds). Possibly making their instakill build totally ineffective. BTW I don't use instakill builds. Definitely get killed by them though.
Seriously most PvPers just want a balanced game they don't want to be super OP. Most of the OP ones only become OP so they can become balanced. The game could just be balanced and everyone could fly and buy what they want. If you are a PvPer you certainly can't fly whatever you want, the game simply doesn't permit it (you would think that people would take off OP stuff to balance, but they don't, it is too much hassle for them, people only seem to organise it for tournaments).
END OF PvP Block
Skill system: It makes you feel inferior if you don't have X build or if you don't respec each time you change ships. The only benefits I can see about it are another thing to click on for new players when new players already have more than enough things to click on. Nobody (okay maybe 1 or 2 people do in the entire game) is ever going to pay for a respec each time they have to change ships. For the business people: Anything that makes changing ships harder is less money for Cryptic. I have MANY MANY MANY times felt super constrained by the skill system not letting me change my ship or choose another ship. This is not minor things, this is I can not run these bridge officer abilities because I will have to respec and not be able to use the old ones. The new skill system is still really really really hard to understand properly for practically all players. EPS for example... Is that supposed to be benefitting DPS of beams, (esp. more than cannons)... I must admit the skill system was reasonably interesting as a new player and when you respec. But it hurts badly when you actually reach highest level in game.
MOST IMPORTANT BIT
COMPRIMISE: SKILL SYSTEM TAKES YOU TO EVERYTHING BY THE TIME YOU REACH 50/60. Then keeps all the benefits none of the drawbacks. Make the three super powers switchable to one of them for free at any time. Or change them so something else THAT CAN'T ever make you not want to PvP or change to another build and pay for a respec for just that. Maybe just make them a fun really cool visual effect with some minor functionality that dosen't conflict with weapon color. I really think all players should have access these, not ones that are willing to mess up there skills (which they CURRENTLY HAVE TO DO). You would need expert knowledge WHILE LVLing to actually make a good decision as it stands.
Rest of this post is about PvP, but PLEASE read it:
And worst of all, Skill system is perhaps THE BIGGEST THING killing PvP, newer players are not willing to respec to play PvP!!!!! If it were free then I could at least give a build to them, but they would fell like they should respec all the time to change ships, to change to PvE then again for back to PvP. Arghhh! Please Please Please remove it. Then PvP might actually have a much better chance. It would inject more things to do in game. Sustain the player base better. Most people don't PvP because it is broken and Most of All because its far far too much effort to get into. Business: A PvPer has way more reasons to buy ships, more things to do in game, PvP is like STFs, it is a FUN time sink, MOST VAULABLE OF ALL: IT IS ANOTHER FUN TIMESINK. A lot of players that don't PvP are interested in PvP but then give reasons like it is broken and too much effort to get into. Business: These are players who buy things I am hereing this from.
Also for Layered Defense in PvP: Maybe make the cooldown for each player it procs for until your die.
Maybe making it work twice instead of once or something. Or twice for a single player if that happens or once for each of two or more different players if that happens. This would be fairer for instakill (i.e. vape) builds since they are eventually able to get a kill but will have to try more times, making the enemy more ready for them, giving the enemy a greater chance of dealing with them appropriately.
Would be very nice to get very noticeable feedback when this trait goes off so you know something is hitting you hard. But should be fine either way (i.e. getting you to actually spot a vaper trying to wipe you out).
Zahl starship trait would do nicely with a once until death thing instead of a resetting cooldown. Some people are chaining perfect resists to make them impossible or near impossible to kill.
Keeping in mind it would kick certain PVP builds square in the balls. Alpha strikers and Vapers to name a few.
BTW I made a separate discussion thread for a penetration resistance skill.
i think this wouldnt be bad even in terms of getting a certain pvp chance to win and tehrefore balance. dying in the first attack is never fun, but for the alphastriker. so. not a loss, but maybe sth that bringt more people back into actually participating in pvp. cause, basically pvp died because of those "im dead at first sight, why should i play this" effect, that all pvp suffers.
its not nerfs or buffs that kill pvpv in most games.
vaporbuilds and alphastrikes and stunlock builds (like in wow) are killing pvp by driving frustrated people away that see no chance in contributing a bit in pvp.
making that torp thing trigger only from effects that would deal more than x%hull dmg is a nice idea though. not only for pvp but for pve too. nice analysis and i can relate to that. (looking over at the guardian trait that mostly triggers 50k heals from 123dmg "crits" ^^)
Keeping in mind it would kick certain PVP builds square in the balls. Alpha strikers and Vapers to name a few.
BTW I made a separate discussion thread for a penetration resistance skill.
i think this wouldnt be bad even in terms of getting a certain pvp chance to win and tehrefore balance. dying in the first attack is never fun, but for the alphastriker. so. not a loss, but maybe sth that bringt more people back into actually participating in pvp. cause, basically pvp died because of those "im dead at first sight, why should i play this" effect, that all pvp suffers.
its not nerfs or buffs that kill pvpv in most games.
vaporbuilds and alphastrikes and stunlock builds (like in wow) are killing pvp by driving frustrated people away that see no chance in contributing a bit in pvp.
yeah even with my suggestions, the instakilling is a worry. Maybe get all high hitting to not occur to you until you do X amount of damage if not a 1v1 (or only in public queues as opposed to private). Either by a damage in to damage out scaler or a cap on the max hits you can take (that does or dosen't scale with damage)... Maybe not only scale with damage but with use of stuff like control, confuse etc. Edit: should be damage or healing (with a muliplier that is different from damage), not just damage
So basically a: can't be killed until an actual threat thing.
Though private queues should have a warning or toggle box to say to newer players: it is gonna change.
And yes this would work well, all you need is the not as good players to stay alive shooting (or whatever) things for them to be happy while the others kaboom everything.
making that torp thing trigger only from effects that would deal more than x%hull dmg is a nice idea though. not only for pvp but for pve too.
There's no clean way of doing this. Layered Defense functions by making you Immune to damage from Torpedoes. When you get "damaged" by a Torpedo (which you're Immune to the damage of) it turns itself off. I can't cleanly turn it on if a Torpedo would deal more than x% hull damage, because by the time it turns on, you've already taken the damage.
Maybe make it ignore only a percentage of projectiles but for a longer window? Personally I hate immunities because they're cheesy and getting out of hand so I would prefer something like this.
Is their anyway to infer that a modification to weapon fire of the ship firing on you has taken place and to negate it? Of course some PvE ships probably have stuff that would have to be tracked down... Making hard hits less hard hitting.
Edit: Yeah my partial "solution" to PvP smells a bit of inelegance and definitely isn't the proper way to do things. Or maybe it is. Still I can easily understand why I developer wouldn't like it.
So I've been reminded that "Threatening stance" is pretty much a naked mechanics term for what's going on and really lacks in-setting immersion & pizzazz. There's also no reason to name your state when a toggle is turned off. So take a look at how this tree reads when you use "Intercept Course" instead of "Threatening Stance" and see if it doesn't sound more like dialogue you'd hear in a Star Trek show~
•Logistical Support: Gain a Critical Chance buff when healed.
•While on Intercept Course you instead gain temporary Hull when healed.
•Show of Force: Gain a stacking energy weapon damage buff for each foe you hit with energy weapons.
•While on Intercept Course you instead gain increased incoming Healing.
•Diversionary Tactics: This placates foes and reduces your threat generation (this Placate may break on damage).
•While on Intercept Course you instead taunt foes within firing range into attacking you
•Attrition Warfare: Increases your Hull and Shield Regeneration rates.
•While on Intercept Course you instead reduce the Recharge Time of your Bridge Officers whenever you are healed.
•Maneuver Warfare: Diversionary Tactics also increases your damage based on the number of foes.
•While on Intercept Course Diversionary Tactics instead also applies a Heal over Time based on the number of foes.
It's shorter, it scans better, and it sounds like proper bridge-chatter/orders being given.
No mechanics changes required, just clearer tooltips and skill descriptions.
I did some testing with @odinforever20000 and it was interesting to say the least. Watching "immune" pop up while he's standing still was quite funny and saddening at the same time. He was surviving streams of torps until one hit within a window. I wish I had recorded the session.
The need to negate constant insta-vapes is one thing, the need to counter immunities is another, but adding more ways to insta-vape someone, and then adding more methods of immunities to certain weapons... [shrug]
Also, in the parallel branch on the same tree, you'll have people easily counter that energy reflect by dropping WPow to minimum + using Mk II beams and lots of plasma explosions. It's already a thing to counter FBP ships, so....
I think a Big Picture approach for PvP needs to be taken, as nit-picking on a few powers here and there isn't going to make PvP smoother, as well as a measure of skill and prowess to out-think your opponent when you counter-counter-counter-counter-counter their counters. For some ships, load it up, and go play Tetris; you're playing to beat timers and cd's, and not the human opponent.
Yea..That was interesting @darkknightucf . It was also a pleasure to work with ya on something (finally ).
I think, with the science tree, we'll have to figure out how to remove (if those are considered buffs, Subnuke might work) those Shield mastery charges..
Ha I hadnt even considered what to use or not use against someone using strategist.
I did some testing with @odinforever20000 and it was interesting to say the least. Watching "immune" pop up while he's standing still was quite funny and saddening at the same time. He was surviving streams of torps until one hit within a window.
The ability should make you immune to one source of torpedo damage every x seconds. The only way this should be able to prevent multiple torpedoes would be if they impact within the amount of time it takes for the server to recognize you've taken "damage" and then lockout the Immunity -- which I was unable to do without multiple enemy ships firing torpedoes at the same time.
Also, in the parallel branch on the same tree, you'll have people easily counter that energy reflect by dropping WPow to minimum + using Mk II beams and lots of plasma explosions. It's already a thing to counter FBP ships, so....
Lol, explains why I counter FBP so well. I'm only hitting with two beams, and mainly to drain those FBP ships' Aux power to zero so their FBP is garbage.
Keeping in mind it would kick certain PVP builds square in the balls. Alpha strikers and Vapers to name a few.
BTW I made a separate discussion thread for a penetration resistance skill.
Vapers existed before the [pen] mod, but took more skill and patience to pull off, and my hats of to mini who was awesome at it. The vapes and alpha strikes you see in PvP now a days are way too cheap and easy to pull off and the reason I got so frustrated with PvP and only try it once a month to see if it got better. It this tree brings balance back so that vapers need to again work for their kills, then excellent. PvP matches right now are all speedscorts pulling off 1-2 second kills anyway.
Keeping in mind it would kick certain PVP builds square in the balls. Alpha strikers and Vapers to name a few.
BTW I made a separate discussion thread for a penetration resistance skill.
Vapers existed before the [pen] mod, but took more skill and patience to pull off, and my hats of to mini who was awesome at it. The vapes and alpha strikes you see in PvP now a days are way too cheap and easy to pull off and the reason I got so frustrated with PvP and only try it once a month to see if it got better. It this tree brings balance back so that vapers need to again work for their kills, then excellent. PvP matches right now are all speedscorts pulling off 1-2 second kills anyway.
This. Minimax managed to kill my recluse tank a few times pre-DR. Him and kell.
The thing is, I still don't understand how some escorts are getting 25k cannon rapid fire hits. Imagine a volley of 20 of those just from 1 person going through your shields AND with armor penetration on top of that. This is why you don't see any massive tanks in PvP anymore, and the few healers left have to use multiple immunities because high damage resistance isn't enough and shield hardness means nothing currently. I was actually impressed when I or another recluse tank would get killed by a vaper pre-DR but nowadays I'm not really impressed when I see a healer killed quickly.
So why is it that a tank build that worked pre-DR, doesn't work now, or any tank builds for that matter? I still don't have the answers. Is it because of huge increases in damage since Delta Rising, or is it because of the shield/armor pen? The world may never know.
And this isn't even just about tanks, I don't know how a lot of non tanks survive nowadays. Don't get me wrong it's not like every time I go into ker'rat or match I go into is filled with crazy damage and overpowered builds, but it happens a lot.
This. Minimax managed to kill my recluse tank a few times pre-DR. Him and kell.
The thing is, I still don't understand how some escorts are getting 25k cannon rapid fire hits. Imagine a volley of 20 of those just from 1 person going through your shields AND with armor penetration on top of that. This is why you don't see any massive tanks in PvP anymore, and the few healers left have to use multiple immunities because high damage resistance isn't enough and shield hardness means nothing currently. I was actually impressed when I or another recluse tank would get killed by a vaper pre-DR but nowadays I'm not really impressed when I see a healer killed quickly.
So why is it that a tank build that worked pre-DR, doesn't work now, or any tank builds for that matter? I still don't have the answers. Is it because of huge increases in damage since Delta Rising, or is it because of the shield/armor pen? The world may never know.
And this isn't even just about tanks, I don't know how a lot of non tanks survive nowadays. Don't get me wrong it's not like every time I go into ker'rat or match I go into is filled with crazy damage and overpowered builds, but it happens a lot.
The devs went a bit overboard trying to help the PvE crowd deal with advanced and elite NPCs while forgetting that PvP players don't have massive hulls or shields like NPCs. Most of the escorts getting quick kills are throwing every resistance debuff and using every damage buff and clickie abilities. Add to that most of them fly fast like hell so that reciprocity kicks in.
Comments
And that would be a bad thing why? yeah it would make them angry, but it would make PvP a heck of a lot less frustrating for the rest of us.
Otherwise play in a league with rules like Vanilla PVP or play with friends.
it'd also hit sci torp boats, and healers.
Torp builds are already in a minority, adding an effect that basically goes "hey, you can NEVER deal damage, gfy" is, I think, not something that should be done. Resisting one torp? Sure. Even one torp out of a salvo can still be the difference between life and death.
But just straight up no-selling salvos forever?
Please no.
I'll have to check to see if it's locked out by fbp or not..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Also, torpedo builds are already overpowered as it is in PVP thanks to shield penetration and other things. I have no problem with a defense against them, in fact I welcome it.
I just cannot express how happy I would be if I could take a shield tank into PVP again and not get blown up at full shield strength.
- Maybe make this if the torp hit: hits for over your total hull HP. And maybe do this with energy weapons (and everything else) as well.
- PvE: you are most likely going to be hit with a small torp that is insignificant before a instakiller one. (e.g. in a Borg match)
PvP:- The other team is probably going to have ships or pets with torps that do next to nothing vs a instakiller, but if they don't that instakiller is going to have the first hit blocked. Kinda Weird. This would also make ships with torp hanger pets with a player that has high torp shots much more effective in 1v1 (get pets to hit first, goes in for the kill).
- Though in 1v1 a lot of instakill builds would never work on the first (presumably decloak) but they might on others. But then the enemy could just cloak or something and wait 60 seconds. They also have to crit hit now again within 60 seconds (unless they are super OP and don't need to crith to kill). Tons more times if the ship has the Zahl Starship trait (no death for 8 seconds). Possibly making their instakill build totally ineffective. BTW I don't use instakill builds. Definitely get killed by them though.
- Seriously most PvPers just want a balanced game they don't want to be super OP. Most of the OP ones only become OP so they can become balanced. The game could just be balanced and everyone could fly and buy what they want. If you are a PvPer you certainly can't fly whatever you want, the game simply doesn't permit it (you would think that people would take off OP stuff to balance, but they don't, it is too much hassle for them, people only seem to organise it for tournaments).
END OF PvP BlockSkill system: It makes you feel inferior if you don't have X build or if you don't respec each time you change ships. The only benefits I can see about it are another thing to click on for new players when new players already have more than enough things to click on. Nobody (okay maybe 1 or 2 people do in the entire game) is ever going to pay for a respec each time they have to change ships. For the business people: Anything that makes changing ships harder is less money for Cryptic. I have MANY MANY MANY times felt super constrained by the skill system not letting me change my ship or choose another ship. This is not minor things, this is I can not run these bridge officer abilities because I will have to respec and not be able to use the old ones. The new skill system is still really really really hard to understand properly for practically all players. EPS for example... Is that supposed to be benefitting DPS of beams, (esp. more than cannons)... I must admit the skill system was reasonably interesting as a new player and when you respec. But it hurts badly when you actually reach highest level in game.
MOST IMPORTANT BIT
COMPRIMISE: SKILL SYSTEM TAKES YOU TO EVERYTHING BY THE TIME YOU REACH 50/60. Then keeps all the benefits none of the drawbacks. Make the three super powers switchable to one of them for free at any time. Or change them so something else THAT CAN'T ever make you not want to PvP or change to another build and pay for a respec for just that. Maybe just make them a fun really cool visual effect with some minor functionality that dosen't conflict with weapon color. I really think all players should have access these, not ones that are willing to mess up there skills (which they CURRENTLY HAVE TO DO). You would need expert knowledge WHILE LVLing to actually make a good decision as it stands.
Rest of this post is about PvP, but PLEASE read it:
And worst of all, Skill system is perhaps THE BIGGEST THING killing PvP, newer players are not willing to respec to play PvP!!!!! If it were free then I could at least give a build to them, but they would fell like they should respec all the time to change ships, to change to PvE then again for back to PvP. Arghhh! Please Please Please remove it. Then PvP might actually have a much better chance. It would inject more things to do in game. Sustain the player base better. Most people don't PvP because it is broken and Most of All because its far far too much effort to get into. Business: A PvPer has way more reasons to buy ships, more things to do in game, PvP is like STFs, it is a FUN time sink, MOST VAULABLE OF ALL: IT IS ANOTHER FUN TIMESINK. A lot of players that don't PvP are interested in PvP but then give reasons like it is broken and too much effort to get into. Business: These are players who buy things I am hereing this from.
Also for Layered Defense in PvP: Maybe make the cooldown for each player it procs for until your die.
Maybe making it work twice instead of once or something. Or twice for a single player if that happens or once for each of two or more different players if that happens. This would be fairer for instakill (i.e. vape) builds since they are eventually able to get a kill but will have to try more times, making the enemy more ready for them, giving the enemy a greater chance of dealing with them appropriately.
Would be very nice to get very noticeable feedback when this trait goes off so you know something is hitting you hard. But should be fine either way (i.e. getting you to actually spot a vaper trying to wipe you out).
Zahl starship trait would do nicely with a once until death thing instead of a resetting cooldown. Some people are chaining perfect resists to make them impossible or near impossible to kill.
i think this wouldnt be bad even in terms of getting a certain pvp chance to win and tehrefore balance. dying in the first attack is never fun, but for the alphastriker. so. not a loss, but maybe sth that bringt more people back into actually participating in pvp. cause, basically pvp died because of those "im dead at first sight, why should i play this" effect, that all pvp suffers.
its not nerfs or buffs that kill pvpv in most games.
vaporbuilds and alphastrikes and stunlock builds (like in wow) are killing pvp by driving frustrated people away that see no chance in contributing a bit in pvp.
So basically a: can't be killed until an actual threat thing.
Though private queues should have a warning or toggle box to say to newer players: it is gonna change.
And yes this would work well, all you need is the not as good players to stay alive shooting (or whatever) things for them to be happy while the others kaboom everything.
There's no clean way of doing this. Layered Defense functions by making you Immune to damage from Torpedoes. When you get "damaged" by a Torpedo (which you're Immune to the damage of) it turns itself off. I can't cleanly turn it on if a Torpedo would deal more than x% hull damage, because by the time it turns on, you've already taken the damage.
Edit: Yeah my partial "solution" to PvP smells a bit of inelegance and definitely isn't the proper way to do things. Or maybe it is. Still I can easily understand why I developer wouldn't like it.
It's shorter, it scans better, and it sounds like proper bridge-chatter/orders being given.
No mechanics changes required, just clearer tooltips and skill descriptions.
Please give it some thought.
The need to negate constant insta-vapes is one thing, the need to counter immunities is another, but adding more ways to insta-vape someone, and then adding more methods of immunities to certain weapons... [shrug]
Also, in the parallel branch on the same tree, you'll have people easily counter that energy reflect by dropping WPow to minimum + using Mk II beams and lots of plasma explosions. It's already a thing to counter FBP ships, so....
I think a Big Picture approach for PvP needs to be taken, as nit-picking on a few powers here and there isn't going to make PvP smoother, as well as a measure of skill and prowess to out-think your opponent when you counter-counter-counter-counter-counter their counters. For some ships, load it up, and go play Tetris; you're playing to beat timers and cd's, and not the human opponent.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I think, with the science tree, we'll have to figure out how to remove (if those are considered buffs, Subnuke might work) those Shield mastery charges..
Ha I hadnt even considered what to use or not use against someone using strategist.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
The ability should make you immune to one source of torpedo damage every x seconds. The only way this should be able to prevent multiple torpedoes would be if they impact within the amount of time it takes for the server to recognize you've taken "damage" and then lockout the Immunity -- which I was unable to do without multiple enemy ships firing torpedoes at the same time.
Lol, explains why I counter FBP so well. I'm only hitting with two beams, and mainly to drain those FBP ships' Aux power to zero so their FBP is garbage.
Vapers existed before the [pen] mod, but took more skill and patience to pull off, and my hats of to mini who was awesome at it. The vapes and alpha strikes you see in PvP now a days are way too cheap and easy to pull off and the reason I got so frustrated with PvP and only try it once a month to see if it got better. It this tree brings balance back so that vapers need to again work for their kills, then excellent. PvP matches right now are all speedscorts pulling off 1-2 second kills anyway.
This. Minimax managed to kill my recluse tank a few times pre-DR. Him and kell.
The thing is, I still don't understand how some escorts are getting 25k cannon rapid fire hits. Imagine a volley of 20 of those just from 1 person going through your shields AND with armor penetration on top of that. This is why you don't see any massive tanks in PvP anymore, and the few healers left have to use multiple immunities because high damage resistance isn't enough and shield hardness means nothing currently. I was actually impressed when I or another recluse tank would get killed by a vaper pre-DR but nowadays I'm not really impressed when I see a healer killed quickly.
So why is it that a tank build that worked pre-DR, doesn't work now, or any tank builds for that matter? I still don't have the answers. Is it because of huge increases in damage since Delta Rising, or is it because of the shield/armor pen? The world may never know.
And this isn't even just about tanks, I don't know how a lot of non tanks survive nowadays. Don't get me wrong it's not like every time I go into ker'rat or match I go into is filled with crazy damage and overpowered builds, but it happens a lot.
The devs went a bit overboard trying to help the PvE crowd deal with advanced and elite NPCs while forgetting that PvP players don't have massive hulls or shields like NPCs. Most of the escorts getting quick kills are throwing every resistance debuff and using every damage buff and clickie abilities. Add to that most of them fly fast like hell so that reciprocity kicks in.