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How about you stop adding clicky features like Reputations, Specialisations a bit ...
drkfrontiers
Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
I'm alt friendly, and have 9 toons since Beta.
In today's current meta, before I even start considering playing it takes me close to 3 hours to just do doff missions, specialization, R&D, fleet, etc.
Is there a ceiling to how many more of these Cryptic intend adding?
Because frankly, I would much rather dev time be spent on creation of episodes, than another specialization or reputation.
At some point these features loose their appeal, and just become resented as additional grind.
Why not spend time on a new dialogue system that does not entail Pop-ups but use the KOTOR, Witcher mechanics?
Why not design a new exploration arc?
Why not work on overhaul to PvP?
Why not work on a new Faction?
Why not work on a more interactive Bridge Commander aspect to the ship navigation?
Why not work on overhaul to Doff system?
Surely at some point specializations, reputations, etc have to end... Please tell me they end. If the game lasts 2-3 more years, I do not want to imagine how much admin there is going to be. 6-8 hours clicking the mouse?
And when you get to the end of the specialization you realize the complete futility of having it anyway, as everyone else will have the exactly duplicate you have, so any advantage "intended" is completed irrelevant over time. Months of grind only to come full circle.
In today's current meta, before I even start considering playing it takes me close to 3 hours to just do doff missions, specialization, R&D, fleet, etc.
Is there a ceiling to how many more of these Cryptic intend adding?
Because frankly, I would much rather dev time be spent on creation of episodes, than another specialization or reputation.
At some point these features loose their appeal, and just become resented as additional grind.
Why not spend time on a new dialogue system that does not entail Pop-ups but use the KOTOR, Witcher mechanics?
Why not design a new exploration arc?
Why not work on overhaul to PvP?
Why not work on a new Faction?
Why not work on a more interactive Bridge Commander aspect to the ship navigation?
Why not work on overhaul to Doff system?
Surely at some point specializations, reputations, etc have to end... Please tell me they end. If the game lasts 2-3 more years, I do not want to imagine how much admin there is going to be. 6-8 hours clicking the mouse?
And when you get to the end of the specialization you realize the complete futility of having it anyway, as everyone else will have the exactly duplicate you have, so any advantage "intended" is completed irrelevant over time. Months of grind only to come full circle.
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Considering the games F2P status I think Cryptic is very generous in what it produces and gives away in content (compared to other F2P games).
Ever since delta rising I also focused heavily on the clicky stuff. I have 9 chars too, however it does not take me 3 hours to do those activities.
It’s more like 1-1,5 max AND I to do this in between when I have to wait for friends to get ready or queues to pop anyway.
Nevertheless it is enough in this game so yea, no more clicky stuff Cryptic!
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You right there mate. I'm a solo fleeter. I have my very own fleet
The only way I can get the Fleet marks is the exchange of Doff commendation points + dilithium so grind I must. You can imagine how much Dilithium I have flushed down the fleet urinal.
I know the mob will say its my choice and I don't have to do anything, - I get that.
But there is nothing wrong with also just asking for something fresh now and again. One episode every-once-in-a-while, is somewhat weary. And when I do play them the dialogue mechanism makes me want to destroy my keyboard. And because the missions now have 4-5 rewards, that means I'm stuck playing through the same missions dozens of time ("Sorry mob - I was a sparrow in another life"), with some cut-scenes which can't be skipped. And the voice acting is sometimes so bad, I turn the sound off so I just don't have to hear anything
I would like content that resonates and addresses social justice, and issues of the world STO is founded in- But social justice means different things for each faction. IN STO - its a linear theme throughout all three.
For example - there is no doubt in my mind, that the Klingons would have attacked the Federation during the Iconian War, the moment they perceived opportunity.
"The enemy of my enemy is the enemy I'll kill last.",
"Brute strength is not the most important asset in a fight.",
"A deal is a deal... until a better one comes along",
"A ship cloaks in order to attack.",
"Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies."
This rose-colored, lets all be friends, "kum-ba-ya" theme between the factions is just not Trek.
Wow, this sound very cool and you have my respect for doing such stuff.
I’m in multiple fleets but also have one which is my own and where only the tier 5 upgrade is missing (but sub veins are tier 5). Filling projects by oneself, which I did to 80% there I think, is tough beyond believe but with a cool desk of toons it works. I think in some cases it works even better than in other fleets where the effort it directed onto a mass of not caring players.
Keep at it sir, doing the XP path from Tier 4 to tier 5 in main base is the hardest but I bet you are on the right track with doffing and the fleet mark income from officer reports.
Hehe, I promise you once you have achieved your fleet goals the rest of the clicks you do for just progressing your toons will be paradise in by comparison.
Getting the stuff to make 50k, 75k or 100K space builds is one thing. Getting the stuff from an infrastructure you build yourself is as close to awesome as it can get in STO.
Be proud of it sir.
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Actually, there may be a correlation... but it's an inverse one.
THANKS! I kind of do
i think a game should be about the actual game (ground and space missions in this case) and not about "side mechanics" taking the overwhelming portion of time.
i hated this, when wow became "the sims, simcity and pokemon world of warcraft" and i just dont like this one becoming another farmville/browsergame, where the actual game is more and more becoming a side-aspect of the game ...
im all for a doff revamp, making it more sleek (comparable to admirality, which i find "okay") where you can have 10-20 doffs for missions, whatever doff you buy/use/have gives you access to additional "traits" as like the passives of doffs do now, but implement those at the trait page of your ship.
call them "ground duty officer traits" and "space duty officer traits" and this completely unlink the doffing part from the doff-passives (i use doffs only for their mechnic changing/QoL part, if at all)
i can understand some people wanted this, and im totally okay of those things (admirality, pvp, doffing, pethunting) beeing in the game, but please "unlink" the rest of the game from it. (passives, traits whatever)
so that "we" (people likem e, that want to focus on the game itself (playing missions in (ground and) space) can do so, without loosing effectiveness in this game part, just because we dont want to participate in the browser game aspect of the game.
I agree that there may have been too many clicky systems added recently. Though it's by no means the case that those clicky systems are implemented at the cost of actual development. Sure, resources and man-hours spent on a clicky system aren't spent on the development of a new adventure zone or anything, but if we take the R&D system as example: this was added at the same time a dozen episodes, two new sectors, a level cap increase, new specialisation abilities, countless new species, a battlezone and many more things were added to the game.
Reputations may be clicky systems, but these are very valuable and are directly tied to the PvE queues and other forms of content. So they're basically extra rewards for the stuff you'd likely have been playing anyway.
The only clicky system that came at the expense of actual gameplay is the Admiralty system, if you ask me. Not because this system in itself is problematic, but because it was offered as a solution when they decreased skill point rewards from actual gameplay. First reducing skill point rewards everywhere and then add a clicky system to quickly get more skill points without actually playing the game was not a decision that I can agree with.
The Admiralty system is not. It, and the fact that its rewards were taken from actual gameplay, substitutes playing the game for clicking a bit, log off, come back in a few hours and get more skill points than if you had been playing for a few hours. In such cases, I believe clicky systems are not a good thing in that they motivate players not to play the game.
I know, we don't 'have to do it' but if I did not, my toons wouldn't have the fleet marks from commendations, they wouldn't be benefiting from spec points (which once I decided to use up for intel/pilot/command/commando made a huge difference in advanced STFs), they wouldn't have the purple doffs that help out a bit in space and for doffing itself, the little perks from doffing (boff from an enemy faction), the high level R&D across the board, the bonuses from ship maintenance, the R&D materials, the Dilithium Ore, and now with Ship Admiralty it makes all that hard work feel like it was for nothing considering how much more one gets from it versus the snail pace of 'the goods' from doffing before it. Now I can hop on any of the original 9 toons, jump in whatever advanced STF, and do really well, which being alt-oholic keeps things fresh and bypasses cooldowns.
End result of this is simply more solo grind, more toon-hopping, less time to hang out with others and enjoy the game itself, which just contributes to emptier queues, empty armada fleet rosters, and friends lists with only a few regulars still on.
A suggestion to improve the situation would be to add an alternative method for doffing, so that one could use up 2 hypothetical slot to queue up two from a bunch of special 72 hour missions using very few doffs which if done would cause the rest of the doffs on the ship roster to also go into some 'support mode' meaning it would be a choice whether to Doff regularly as before, or use the two 72-hour slots instead.
Admiralty can be done fairly quickly, but even that could be compressed by doubling the rewards and also the maintenance cool-downs on the ships themselves in a way that keeps things in proportion to what we have now.
Hell, specializations were intended to be just that - a specialty that you can stat in if you want. Something you want your captain specializing in. Something extra from what you needed. This notion that everyone absolutely needs all of them, then complaining that everyone will be exactly the same is ridiculously self-defeating circular logic.
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But i do agree that currently there is a time grind in this game. You need time for admiralty, for crafting, for making ec, for playing what you like, for grinding stuff for fleet and so on. I think the doffing system needs to be revised, maybe reduce the number of missions and give better rewards so one can do them at same time with admiralty. Adding an auto selection of ships to admiralty with best traits to optimize like doffing could help a bit also.
Lately i like what the devs have done with the game with a few exceptions. I want a new season with something else than a new featured episode that you need to grind and grind every week. And please, please bring back NWS and others elite very challenging missions.
I'd rather grind NWS for 20 times at day knowing i can fail if i do a mistake than repeat same story mission 2 times. Alright you want us to grind ok, but at least give as something good and fun to grind.
Bring back NO WINN SCENARIO,Terradome, make elite versions of CCE, Infected, Undine assault. Give us a NWS for ground.
If I am short on time, I skip the Admiralty system. I can always go back to it when I have the time.
Not saying that the Admiralty system is a bad system or anything. I just wish they hadn't implemented this system after lowering expertise rewards throughout the game. Missions, adventure zones and battlezones or even Foundry missions, in short, actual game content, should always be more rewarding than a clicky system which doesn't even require the player to leave a social zone.
Systems such as Admiralty should be an addition to - not a replacement of - rewards that are obtained through playing the game. They did this well with reputation systems and crafting. But right now, the rewards for the Admiralty system are much higher than the average STF where it should be the other way around. You could queue for one ground and space mission for example, start some Admiralty assignments at the beginning of the first mission, and by the time you're done with both missions or even one of them, some of those 15 or 30 minutes assignments which only required 4 or 5 clicks will give you more expertise points than the mission(s) you've just been playing.
Or you can do both and simply have fun with the game without either clicking or grinding too much. If you shut yourself in a skinner box its your own damn fault.
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The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
THEY LAUGHED WHEN I BOUGHT THE KDF DYSON DESTROYER 3-PACK! BUT WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?
Ahem.
@drkfrontiers; While I like the improvements you suggest, I do have to say that you seem to be making a rod for your own back. You will never have an "advantage" because there will always be other players with equivalently-advanced alts, and the nature of any living game is that the developers are forever moving the goalposts. From a development perspective, I'd guess that bolt-on systems like R&D, DOffing, and Admiralty are *much* easier than core game engine changes like the ones you describe. Frankly, you'd have to go back to, what, Season 4? to find a change to the core engine (I'm thinking the Ground Combat revamp).
Problem solved.
No one can make you click the clicky.
Sounds reasonable. Problem is, taking the Commando tree as an example, that those spec trees make an important difference in how good you perform in missions. Try filling a spec tree, even a secondary one, while only playing ground missions, or with an occasional space mission.
The Admiralty system is almost a necessity if you actually want to enjoy the game on a fully equiped, geared and spec'ed character. Simply because it's near impossible to fill the tree within a reasonable amount of time without it.
I doubt anyone really likes the system. They may like the rewards, no doubt about that. They just appreciate its presence because it was a much needed source of expertise after they made playing the game much less worthwile in terms of expertise payout and actual character progress. Not because players prefer a click system over actual mission or adventure zone content.
I'm by no means someone who only plays the game for its rewards; if that were true I wouldn't have dedicated ground characters since almost everything, from PUGing to finishing a map, can be done faster in space. But I do want my STF's to contribute more with regard to character progression and filling of spec trees compared to a click system.
My KDF Science Captain needs a faction specific T6 Science Vessel. Too bad there isn't one available.
Exactly my thought process on it. I don't like it, but I know of others that love it.
I'm still very jealous of my doffs and my other ships with the adventures they get to go on.
Yeah, that is a very sad point. Our doffs actually have more adventures than we do
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I hope you have some idea of what actually goes on with the work that the devs do. They don't all work on only one thing. Lets take an expansion where they decide to make a new faction.
No one on that team suddenly goes, oh let's stop producing episodes and focus just on the specialization system. They're always working on something in the game.
It's quite possible that because of how dated their engine is (It's the same engine they built Champions with) that it might not even be possible to replicate that. If they did, they'd have to hire voice actors to play each part. While they probably could get away with having the same male and female voices for most of the federation species, there's some that need to be tweaked to make it work for a Klingon vs. the other species in the KDF, or perhaps a difference with the Romulans vs. Remans. That costs money.
Do you mean an Exploration arc via a new Exploration system? If that's the case, that will take a lot of work.
Right now, PvP is a second thought to them vs. What they want to focus in on with STO.
I assume you mean creating a playable faction, and not just a new enemy faction we face. New factions are a lot of work. Look at when we got the Romulans & Remans into the game. They developed a new tutorial, Episodes that filled the Romulan level curve from level 1-30 (with 30+ being the point players doing the story should be reaching The Vault), New ships, New Uniforms and new Romulan specific hubs. Every member of the team was busy working on things from the ship artists to the writers who were scripting the dialog for the new missions.
I'm not really familiar with Bridge Commander so I can't really comment on this.
Doffing will probably see an overhaul next since like the skill system, it is now dated by a little over 4 years.
As long as this game is going we'll keep getting new reputations and specializations, especially since the latter is intended as our progression system beyond level 60.
Rep - At most I have 1-2 characters doing one at a time. So that isn't too bad. If i have enough marks. I click and move on.
Fleet - Only time I use this is when I have enough resources to do so. IF I have extra to spend it goes there. So it may be weeks I don't bother with it.
Doff - I stopped doing this after they nerfed it about a year ago. Also the payout isn't worth my time doing it. Now I get a few Doffs that helps my ship/ground crew on bonuses. My lower alts don't even have a full crew of them.
Admiralty - I only do this IF I have time from the Rep grind. So it may be days go by before I touch it.
To me its not bad on the clicky stuff. Since I only do it when I have a chance to do it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
ha! I cried for quite a while after making that purchase myself - the only bad one I've made in the game. But it is swell to have for admiralty.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Well I hope you realize that most players in an mmopg do not play to be satisfied with getting what they need but rather with achieving what is best in their individual point of view.
And that is the tricky part here. The OP started his endeavor over 5 years ago but cryptic saw it fit to change the rules quiet a bit as time went by. Most noticeable change was Delta Rising where they overnight changed it in a way where the effort to reach endgame was multiplied by two and getting to optimum roughly was multiplied by ten.
The only thing they gave us to compensate were more and more clicking games which do help but which, let’s face it, suck beyond believe.
Now I would not worry about the OP, he may be exhausted for a while but is dedicated enough to get where he wants.
I would rather worry about all those players which are not willing to bring a fraction of his dedication because they log only to have some easy fun in a very limiting time.
They are the once for which advanced queues pose too much of an obstacle leading to empty queues. They are also the ones tending to forums because they encounter a hard time to even tend to normal contend and story missions.
Think that’s the hole point. Doing fun activities in this game is not enough to cope with the game itself.
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