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Poll Time! Subspace Decompiler and Countermeasure Systems
borticuscryptic
Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
This little informal poll is mostly aimed at people that made use of these two skills, and abilities that scaled with them (Holds, Disables, Placates, Confuses), but I'd also like to get a general idea of "average" player itemization as well. I'm curious at what sort of total Skill level might be considered "normal" after the Revamp. Your responses may help gauge what (if any) sort of tuning needs to be done to these abilities, now that getting Skills for them may be less arduous.
Please respond here with the following information:
Please respond here with the following information:
Thanks!HOLODECK
Subspace Decompiler Skill: +TRIBBLE
Countermeasures Systems Skill: +TRIBBLE
TRIBBLE
Control Expertise Skill: +TRIBBLE
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
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Seriously though you may have to do that to get the information you need.
I want your current values. Not the max you can achieve.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Tribble values: 130 (deflector pushes it past 100)
I'm a science officer in an escort. Prior to the last skill revamp (S5 I think?), I used Photonic Shockwave on my MVAE a lot. After it was split into several skills, I had to dump it for more necessary skills. With the skill revamp on Tribble, I may consider using it again since I can now get those skills. Several other interesting Control options are now available to me as well.
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Sub D is 84
Counter is 84
On tribble
Control is 475
Before you run off to make changes. I do like that Scramble and VM are greatly buffed now. In fact on Holo sub D I think max you can get is about 150, for a VM3 at around 20 secs, factor in Res it only last 10secs in PvP....PvE is different however.
On the Scramble Sensors, I do use it on holo and look forward to the tribble. 40 sec plus may last to long, for I could kill all the mobs is 40secs while they are scrambled the whole time. For PvP Scramble hardly forces the player to switch target to a team mate, that would the area I wish scramble sensor would be worked and improved on
My goal is to not cause a new imbalance via the changes that are being made. ~40sec Scrambles are pretty redonkulous, as an example.
Remember, this Revamp is supposed to be as accurate a transcription as we can manage, and not an excuse to make major balance overhauls, or cause new problems. Sure, some things will be improved/decreased, but we're aiming for a semblance of accuracy and not a crazy new meta full of hyper-control builds.
This would especially cause issues with PvP, which doesn't need such treatment to be frank!
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
For reference my holodeck build has zero Sub D and gets ~20 seconds from the same power. I'd say it's scaling roughly the same it's just nobody has ever tried getting this high before.
Holodeck:
Countermeasures: 0 (was 84 until a fairly recent respec. Almost no discernable difference in ability performance.)
I use both Scramble and Jam habitually.
Subdecompiler: 114, sometimes 141, depending on console switching (which I do).
Tribble:
ControlX: 447
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Jam Sensors is really hard because it's just such a useless skill with how the damage threshold is set up. The highest I can get it on Tribble is 100,000 which many players can do in about 1-2 seconds now.
Gravity Well and Tractor Beam Repulsors seem to be functioning within normal parameters.
No way was I trying to have my post be a put off or anything. I understand you wanna try to make make all skills 1:1 as much as possible.
I agree 40 plus sec on SS is crazy, for you can kill everything and not be shot at.
To be honest the only skills that seem to be out of wack is VM and SS. PSW seems normal, disable went form 2.8 to about 10secs, and Jam sensor seems normal. Yes the threshold got higher, but one trop crit can break that just like on Holo.
But with out testing 1v1 to see the new Resist factor SS and VM hard the test for balance. expect knowing SS is OP in PVE when over 30 secs
Just on a side note:
I do use VM and SS and Jam, PSW. But I am in the great minority. Most people doing SCI things tend to only look at Damage, and since three of those don't do damage no one use them, for they don't understand how useful they can be. I am not asking that they do damage, for Sec Del gives them that. But Most of the player base will never drop their DRB3 for VM3 etc. So for me personally having an extra 7 sec on PSW is great, along with 30 sec VM. I will gave that SS can be OP over 30 secs. Tweaking should happen, as this thread is about.
Viral Matrix is difficult to say I can get the uptime to ~30 seconds I believe but it doesn't disable shields and is easily cleared and resisted so it's use in PVE and PVP is dubious at best especially if reduced further.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Subspace Decompiler: +115
Countermeasures: +108
Tribble:
Control: +185
Indeed, it is quite possible to get Scramble Sensors into the 75+ second realm on Holodeck. However, it requires such an insane amount of Countermeasures consoles and it results in your build dealing unreasonably low amounts of damage. My Scramble Sensors II lasts for 39.5 seconds on Holodeck with the Psychological Warfare trait. However, it lasts less than 10 seconds due to 75% resistances from all players. Furthermore the Tier 2 Intel trait and the proliferation of Science Team has greatly reduced the effectiveness of any confuse/placate.
Oh yes, that awful new trait from the Tholian Tarantula. Right now it appears to be scaling on Subspace Decompiler and fortunately there are few Tactical officers running 6+ ranks in that skill. If this skill scales on control expertise it will be an easy 30 second lockout disable + guaranteed kill once this goes live.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
In Elite and Advanced PvE I cannot kill mobs or most individual ships quickly and appreciate having foes scrambled as I perform actions or attack one of the NPC's.
I wouldnt worry too much bort. A friend and I just spent some time in ker'rat testing the effectivness of V.Matrx, Photonic shockwave, jam sensors and Scramble sensors, using the most extreme skill stacking we could, and they were a little improved over what they are on holo right now, but not by such a huge margin as the tooltip numbers surgested, after all people now have more resistance as a result of this change as well.
Subspace Decompiler Skill: +0
Countermeasures Systems Skill: +0
TRIBBLE
Control Expertise Skill: +176 (+277 in my torpedo boat/gravity well ship due to graviton generators)
---
Note: Holodeck - Graviton Generators: +160 (+261 in my torpedo boat/gravity well ship)
only 6 points (+84) in the skill
This is after only using skill points needed to rebuild to as close to the Holodeck skill spec as I could.
I am a science character, but probably 'average' player in regards to this poll as I did not use any of those skills very often, and did not put points in to them as they just were not effective for my build or playstyle since about 5 1/2 years ago.
As I mentioned above, I do however use gravity well, so my ControlX skill on Tribble is from that.
Twilight, Particle Physicist that stole the ship.
Original Signup date: August 4, 2008
LTS since Pre-Order
Reports like "my X power lasts Y sec now, instead of only Z sec" isn't what I need.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
HOLODECK
Subspace Decompiler Skill: +54
Countermeasures Systems Skill: +54
TRIBBLE
Control Expertise Skill: +171
Dysnomia
HOLODECK
Subspace Decompiler Skill: +0
Countermeasures Systems Skill: +30
TRIBBLE
Control Expertise Skill: +219
Mala
HOLODECK
Subspace Decompiler Skill: +0
Countermeasures Systems Skill: +54
TRIBBLE
Control Expertise Skill: +100
0 in both skills on holodeck.
130 on Tribble because of Romulan engine swap out for Terran Deflector. I am projecting that I'm going to drop some DrainX to bring CtrlX to about 205 though, because of Leech scaling changes. Hope that helps.
Subspace Decompiler Skill: +79
Countermeasures Systems Skill: +84
TRIBBLE
Control Expertise Skill: +188
I am not convinced that confuses or placates lasting 40+ seconds are actually desirable to have at all in game, even if it's just helpless NPCs that can't log into the forums, for PvP at least the fact that the resist skill is now now relatively easy and likely to get, it might be that it's not that terrible in practice. Of course, that will depend on the math behind how the increased resist interacts with the increased buff.
(Though honestly, I am not sure if people even wait out confuse duration in PvP and don't always rely on Science Team to clear it anyway.)
The thing about SsD is, while I understand the desire to NOT introduce a rebalance... you just want to re-establish the "norms" from Holodeck as best as possible... doesn't the combination of SsD into the new ControlX category, in effect, introduce the possibility of inevitable "rebalance"? There are so few consoles that buff SsD, but on Tribble, there are TONS of consoles that buff ControlX.
I understand you don't want things out of hand or "redonkulous." I agree. However, unlike most other powers, isn't finding a "new normal" going to be rather impossible for SsD in particular? Because of the introduction of all of these colonies that will now buff these powers? SsD is a rather unique beast.
Bottom line, I am all for maintaining current balance (since rebalance is not the goal), and I get that things should not be potentially game-breaking... however, I would also like to see the opportunity to finally buff SsD powers (like you currently would with FlowCaps, PartGens, and GravGens, through a wider variety of consoles) be maintained. To a degree, of course.
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Kaszena: (sci)
Squishing Bugs for a better future
Most people are going from zero to something.
This will be the setting on all 6 of my characters....
Hate tractor beams so I will be placing points in Control Expertise and Improved Control Expertise in new system.
That is the only Science thing I have made up my mind about.
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Holodeck: 45 Sub D and 0 Countermeasures
Tribble: Control ~200 is pretty much standard across all my builds with all the universal consoles I like to use now boosting it. If I'm building for it I always go to the maximum which seems to be right at ~650 resting although it's very expensive and difficult to get that high and I sacrifice a lot.
Expensive? What are the lobi pieces involved? Otherwise, it's not that expensive.
Holodeck: 0 SubD, 0 Countermeasures
Tribble: 100 Control