I want say thank you @borticuscryptic for the new skill revamp. It was much need in terms and balance and simplicity. You put alot of work into this, and it is a huge undertaking, and I know there are many qq'ers right now, but you should know alot of people really look forward to this new revamp and thank you for it.
I know there is still stuff to iron out and test, but the base and idea of the system looks great!
Totes onboard there, it is much better and I can't wait to see it go live. I'm looking forward to what they're bringing out through this year.
If anything shutdown builds should be more powerful than ever, what powers are you using?
My Tac Officer is using Intel abilities for shutting people down, and well as relying in crippling fire and other like abilities to keep their systems offline.
Well the skill Revamp also is allowing them to do a game wide rebalance which was sorely needed so it is kind of important. But yes the other things you mentioned would also be good
If you like the skill revamp and think they are doing a good job, great, hopefully a third time is a charm. However, to even suggest this will allow them to do a game wide rebalance is nothing short but ridiculous. And if they did do a game wide rebalance, oh man, barer down the hatches now!
It's far, far too late for any game rebalancing now IMO. The game is too old to do that. If it was newer, maybe, but not in its current life cycle.
The skill tree represent just one portion of how your abilities, power and strength comes together. There are consoles, the ships themselves, passives(from boffs/doffs and yourself), what you grab from the rep tree...and there's more. They kept adding more elements to the game without properly checking the causes and effect of what each added element did.
The performance gap between players from the weakest setup to the strongest has never been wider. The skill revamp potentially could help that a bit, but in no way can it provide a game wide rebalance.
I will say however, Bort and any others who have worked on the new skill tree have worked hard and is continuing to do so. This so far, has been probably the best in terms of feedback being received and being acknowledge that I have seen in a very long time, so yes, for that, great job.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Whilst I am very appreciative of Bort's work - Cryptic has a looooong track record of saying one thing and doing another (and shall we say... 'bending' the truth): none of which may be Bort's fault at all, but people tend to look at a company as a whole rather than its individual employee's.
I'm very impressed with Bort's willingness to interact with the community and listen to feedback - it's definitely a step in the right direction and should go a long way to restoring peoples trust in Cryptic.
Exactly. The last thing we should do now that they're finally communicating the way we prefer, is to verbally attack them. That'd simply mean they'll go back to the old way of handling things.
All this praise and "sucking up" does no good for me if the build I spent a few years trying to perfect, and now I am FORCED to change my playstyle because the build is no longer viable. My Fed Tac was set up to shut people down so the team could do clean up. I tried for a few hours to recreate that same EXACT build with the new system, and ended up frustrated. My shut downs no longer work long enough, and my damage has been cut in half.
So when the dev blog said "Player will lose nothing" followed with Bort saying in an interview that some sacrifices in abilities to make others work are contradictory. It's no wonder trust is something a lot of players rarely give to the Devs. So unless either the blog is changed or Bort rephrases his comment, then I feel trust will be hard to get from the players again.
Then give him the feedback, and hope that he will listen to it. It's all you can do, really.
Then in the name of fairness they burn the people they have gotten addicted to "I win button" buying and wonder why the perception is the game is dying.
It is if nothing else a fascinating business ethos to observe as a not too disinterested observer.
And that's really the core of my problem.
If Cryptic thinks something like the Plasmonic Leech is broken, then cool.. I can understand that. So when you realize the problem exists.. fix it. But what I find disgusting is the way they'll let it go for years as long as it gets people buying lock box keys, or purchasing Vandal Destroyers. Then once they feel they have sold enough, they come in and nerf it. Now all the sudden, when the profit slows down, now it's suddenly 'game breaking.'
They're content to let it go if the money is coming in, but once they have collected as much as they feel they can, now it needs to be 'fixed.' It's even worse when they hide those fixes. Then they wonder why players don't trust them or take them at their word. People can start all the threads they want, but no way I'm going to just accept it, much less thank them for it.
You know, the problem here is - ascribing too many motivations.
The important feedback is: Plasmonic Leech does less than it used. You do want that, or you do not want that. And you can safely stop right there.
You don't need to assume they are doing it because they "sold enough" (as if there is such a thing). That they deliberately tried to mislead everyone, or trying to ruin someone's fun, or whatever.
You don't know why they did that. You can make up all kind of theories why, but... you don't know. And if you assume that there is malice involved, you should not be surprised if this is actually a hurtful comment to Borticus or others.
Before the skill revamp, the drain boosting skills did not behave identical across all skills. Some powers got bonus X per point of the skill, some got a bonus 2X, some got bonus 4X. Borticus is now settling for 2X. That "nerfs" Energy Siphon and Plasmonic Leech because they were in the 4X category before. It buffs others because they were 1X.
Further, the idea that they nerf old stuff because they "sold enough" is a wonderful conspiracy theory that doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. You know, when they can sell power, they can always do that. It's relatively easy for Cryptic to invent something that is more powerful than what we had before.
They don't need to nerf old stuff for that. If the sales for an item are dwindling down, the least return on investment would be using a dev's time to nerf it.
When they feel their sales dwinding down, you know what they do? They raise the level cap. They introduce Fleet Ships. They release a new lockbox. They introduce a new ship tier.
They have practically no reason to go back and nerf something old just for the sake of selling something else.
The reason to go back to old items is to fix bugs or balance issues that negatively impact the game (and thus negatively impact sales overall). Or because you have to, because some system is significantly changing. Like with the skill revamp.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
"They release a new lockbox" is exactly why we have "power creep in a quarterly container."
If they were at all interested in balance they probably would not introduce series of balance disruptions with price tags.
A user can make their peace with this paradigm or they can be driven away over time, b/c it is pretty self-evident that nothing on Terra will alter the paradigm.
"Here buy a balance breaker kid!" and then months/years later "no soup for you" is not my thing so I refrain from boutique builds.
All this praise and "sucking up" does no good for me if the build I spent a few years trying to perfect, and now I am FORCED to change my playstyle because the build is no longer viable. My Fed Tac was set up to shut people down so the team could do clean up. I tried for a few hours to recreate that same EXACT build with the new system, and ended up frustrated. My shut downs no longer work long enough, and my damage has been cut in half.
So when the dev blog said "Player will lose nothing" followed with Bort saying in an interview that some sacrifices in abilities to make others work are contradictory. It's no wonder trust is something a lot of players rarely give to the Devs. So unless either the blog is changed or Bort rephrases his comment, then I feel trust will be hard to get from the players again.
Then give him the feedback, and hope that he will listen to it. It's all you can do, really.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
Chiming in to say thank you Borticus and other Devs for the work being put in to rebalance the game and for communicating with the player base more openly (at least as much as possible). My own concerns, objections, etc., can be cast aside for the moment.
Wanted to recognize that some or a lot of the feedback, mine included, has been harsh at times. On the game play end, there is frustration with many elements that have lingered and continue to, and equally on yours I suspect you have other constraints bearing down on you all which no doubt cannot be spoken of for obvious reasons.
Clear communication I firmly believe is a step in the right direction even if it takes a while for the dust to settle.
Look forward to learning how to test things and provide feedback both in the numbers and the qualitative 'feel' of gameplay, making sure to take into account the wider picture of different career types, builds, mains vs alts, casual/newly leveled players and those much more dedicated, and difficulty scaling from normal to elite and how this little slice adds to that big picture, time permitting.
You don't need to assume they are doing it because they "sold enough" (as if there is such a thing). That they deliberately tried to mislead everyone, or trying to ruin someone's fun, or whatever.
You don't know why they did that. You can make up all kind of theories why, but... you don't know. And if you assume that there is malice involved, you should not be surprised if this is actually a hurtful comment to Borticus or others.
I go by what I see, just like anyone else.
The Leech has been the way it is for years.. years and years and now, all the sudden it's a problem? Like I said, it's one thing if they release something, post an 'oops' and then fix it right away. To introduce an item into the game, leave it untouched for years and then suddenly say 'oh, now we have to fix it,' yeah.. I find that suspicious. Especially since they were not transparent about it and tried to sneak it in without anyone noticing during the time when everyone was fixated on the new skill system. When people hide their actions and aren't transparent in their motivation, suspicion is generated. It's how it is, and how it always will be. Their methods lead me to suspicion, simple as that.
As for Bort getting offended, well.. sorry, but I can't help that. Any question to Bort makes him mad, and I'm not going to dance around it just because he's always looking for reasons to be offended. If I offended him, sorry.. but I find his lack of transparency and over use of the 'nerf hammer' offensive, so I guess we're even there.
All this praise and "sucking up" does no good for me if the build I spent a few years trying to perfect, and now I am FORCED to change my playstyle because the build is no longer viable. My Fed Tac was set up to shut people down so the team could do clean up. I tried for a few hours to recreate that same EXACT build with the new system, and ended up frustrated. My shut downs no longer work long enough, and my damage has been cut in half.
So when the dev blog said "Player will lose nothing" followed with Bort saying in an interview that some sacrifices in abilities to make others work are contradictory. It's no wonder trust is something a lot of players rarely give to the Devs. So unless either the blog is changed or Bort rephrases his comment, then I feel trust will be hard to get from the players again.
Then give him the feedback, and hope that he will listen to it. It's all you can do, really.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
If that's true then....launch is going to be swell.....
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
You don't need to assume they are doing it because they "sold enough" (as if there is such a thing). That they deliberately tried to mislead everyone, or trying to ruin someone's fun, or whatever.
You don't know why they did that. You can make up all kind of theories why, but... you don't know. And if you assume that there is malice involved, you should not be surprised if this is actually a hurtful comment to Borticus or others.
I go by what I see, just like anyone else.
The Leech has been the way it is for years.. years and years and now, all the sudden it's a problem? Like I said, it's one thing if they release something, post an 'oops' and then fix it right away. To introduce an item into the game, leave it untouched for years and then suddenly say 'oh, now we have to fix it,' yeah.. I find that suspicious. Especially since they were not transparent about it and tried to sneak it in without anyone noticing during the time when everyone was fixated on the new skill system. When people hide their actions and aren't transparent in their motivation, suspicion is generated. It's how it is, and how it always will be. Their methods lead me to suspicion, simple as that.
Why not just consider the possibility that the skill revamp is a reason for them to ... revamp how skills affect certain abilities, to make things more predictable and similar across the board, so that players have a better idea what their skills will actually do?
Because your claim that they are doing it because they "sold enough" plasmonic leeches makes no sense. There is no cut-off point where selling plasmonic leeches is not profitable any more for them. It doesn't matter if they are sold 10 a day or once a year, every new zen sale in the pursuit of a plasmonic leech is a net gain for them.
And ther eis an obvious risk to nerfing things that people "bought" - people might fear it could happen to stuff they buy in the future, too, and make them stop buying.
So your "Logic" isn't.
As for Bort getting offended, well.. sorry, but I can't help that. Any question to Bort makes him mad, and I'm not going to dance around it just because he's always looking for reasons to be offended. If I offended him, sorry.. but I find his lack of transparency and over use of the 'nerf hammer' offensive, so I guess we're even there.
I doubt he's actually made, but he is willing to call out people for ascribing motivations to him.
By using words like "stealth nerf" or creating wild speculation that things got nerfed because sales of an item were dwindling down, you're ascribing motivations to him, and you're painting things in an emotional light. Instead of first inquiring about it, you already make up your reasons and assume they must be true, and you refuse to actually listen to replis and say they are dishonest. Under such circumstance, he can barely give meaningful replies, because if they don't fit your personal theories, they must be lies and falsehoods.
Feedback could simply have been: "I noticed that Plasmonic Leech is now draining less than it used to? Is it bugged, or is this an intentional change? Personally, I think Plasmaonic Leech was fine as before, and this will negatively affect my build. I would prefer it it would be returned to its old values." If you've got the time for it, you could provide your Tribble and Holodeck builds even and show the differences.
But no, instead, people create threads like "Stealth Nerf on Tribble! Quick every have a look and berate Cryptic and BorticusCryptic for nerfing the expensive gear we bought. Look how they are out to get us! Doom is upon us all if we don't show our righteous indignation now?"
The developers have plenty of options to "stealth nerf" anything they want. They don't need to invite us to Tribble to check out the changes to the new skill system, update tooltips and ask us to test things and provide data on our stats and abilities between Holdodeck and Tribble. They could just change things under the hood and you'd never know that there were any changes.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'm no 'MATHS' expert by any means when it comes to this game.
So my grumbling mostly, is more to the way They do things that to me, seem to leave me in the dark and come suddenly with no explanation other than a half-hearted "Sorry".
I very much do appreciate that They (Bort & Taco especially) put a lot of Their love and talents into this game for our benefit.
But I too, am in the camp of just tells us what the plan is (good or bad) and be honest up front, rather than leaving it for the player-base to discover inadvertently.
A hearty Thank You For Caring would be the result from me, every time.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Well the skill Revamp also is allowing them to do a game wide rebalance which was sorely needed so it is kind of important. But yes the other things you mentioned would also be good
"pats on the shoulder" You're kidding yourself if you think there will be any *balance* it's going to be FaW as usual...FaW hard!
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Why not just consider the possibility that the skill revamp is a reason for them to ... revamp how skills affect certain abilities, to make things more predictable and similar across the board, so that players have a better idea what their skills will actually do?
Because your claim that they are doing it because they "sold enough" plasmonic leeches makes no sense. There is no cut-off point where selling plasmonic leeches is not profitable any more for them. It doesn't matter if they are sold 10 a day or once a year, every new zen sale in the pursuit of a plasmonic leech is a net gain for them.
And ther eis an obvious risk to nerfing things that people "bought" - people might fear it could happen to stuff they buy in the future, too, and make them stop buying.
To be clear, I fully acknowledge that my theory about sales falling off is just that.. a theory. I apologize if you believe I intended to pass that off as fact, I didn't.
The issue here is that I'm left to theorize because they're not being upfront and honest with the information. The thread you're talking about was called 'Stealth Nerf?' with a question mark, and if you read it.. it's hardly a call out thread or an 'I caught you!' It's a legitimate question, and it was responded to with Bort telling us that we're all over reacting and posting a quote of some cryptic (excuse the pun) 2 line sentence that said basically 'some stuff will change' and blaming us from not inferring from that information that the Leech was getting nerfed. There have been other examples on Reddit where he as asked a question in a respectful manner and he didn't like the question, so he just stormed off and wouldn't talk anymore.
Here is the core issue at hand, when you do things in secret and hide your motivations people are going to assume the worst. The leech is just one example, it was changed in the background without any transparency and when questioned the response was overly defensive and frankly, somewhat insulting. This is what leads people to draw conclusions, it generates suspicion and makes everyone assume the worst. The Dev team has to know that Plasmonic Leech is a core console in almost every popular build outside of Torpedo Boats, they know that a reduction to that item is going to have major consequences. Yet they couldn't even put out one sentence explaining what they're doing or why. Instead, they just threw it in and tried to sneak it by hoping no one would notice.
I judge people on actions. When people behave in a secretive or deceptive way, then my assumptions of them going forward are based on that experience. I get what you're doing, and I respect it, you're trying to defuse hostility and get people to see each side of the argument. It's a noble goal, but honestly, right now I don't see the other side. I just see more of what I have seen from this company for years and I'm just tired of it. I will however, in the interest of diffusing hostility, put down the torch and step off the 'soap box.' I have said my piece here, I know in the end it won't make any difference anyway, so out of respect for future productive discussion, I'll drop it. Thank you for presenting your side in a calm and rational manner, I'll consider your points and see if I can get past this, but right now, I have to admit I'm pretty angry over the entire thing.
I judge people on actions. When people behave in a secretive or deceptive way, then my assumptions of them going forward are based on that experience.
Bort was right: you ARE overreacting. All of the changes are still in an early stage. Give proper feedback and things can get fixed before it goes live. Any 'nerfs' at this point are part of refining a system, not deliberate deceptions.
Also, keep in mind that when you do things differently, but still take the same time to finish a mission, you weren't nerfed. You gameplay changed, sure. But your power level remains the same.
And finally, this game NEEDS nerfs. When an escort can tank npcs while standing still and not using abilities (not to mention blow them up in 1 second), things have gone too far. If we lose 50% of our effectiveness, we will still steamroll 95% of the content. So lighten up please. A nerf would actually improve the game, and even if it were a secretive one, I'd appluad it.
So far looking at the changes I'm ok with them. I'm waiting till I can get a day off to spend a few quality hours in one block on the test server instead of an hour here and there. Only thing I would say would be that a few free respecs would be cool, but I still have many from leveling my now main characters. I have a lot of characters, and find I play few of the original ones I made for a few that I made later when I had a much better understanding of the game, and I don't think I ever reset their skills as I advanced them. I'll want to see how these characters and gear that I'm familiar with will function with the new skill revamp, but it does seem to be closer to a true trek experience where most of the hero characters were a true hybrid of skill classes. Kirk was a tactical character who couldn't tell you what a triquarter looked like, but seemed to have at the least a competent command of engineering. Janeway was a scientist who let tuvok fire a lot of weapons, Sisko designed the defiant....then was the George Patton of the dominion war, I think its a good move, so far seems pretty well done, needs a little tweeking, but thats why its on the test server.
Why not just consider the possibility that the skill revamp is a reason for them to ... revamp how skills affect certain abilities, to make things more predictable and similar across the board, so that players have a better idea what their skills will actually do?
Because your claim that they are doing it because they "sold enough" plasmonic leeches makes no sense. There is no cut-off point where selling plasmonic leeches is not profitable any more for them. It doesn't matter if they are sold 10 a day or once a year, every new zen sale in the pursuit of a plasmonic leech is a net gain for them.
And ther eis an obvious risk to nerfing things that people "bought" - people might fear it could happen to stuff they buy in the future, too, and make them stop buying.
To be clear, I fully acknowledge that my theory about sales falling off is just that.. a theory. I apologize if you believe I intended to pass that off as fact, I didn't.
The issue here is that I'm left to theorize because they're not being upfront and honest with the information. The thread you're talking about was called 'Stealth Nerf?' with a question mark, and if you read it.. it's hardly a call out thread or an 'I caught you!' It's a legitimate question,
Actually, I challenge that. It's not quite like asking you: "Did you stop beating your wife", but it already casts some doubts. The question could have been "Is Plasmonic Leech's reduced effectiveness intended?" It already sets a negative and non-constructive tone for the discussion. It's a great baiting title, of course, because everyone wants the scoop on the potential stealth nerfs.
and it was responded to with Bort telling us that we're all over reacting and posting a quote of some cryptic (excuse the pun) 2 line sentence that said basically 'some stuff will change' and blaming us from not inferring from that information that the Leech was getting nerfed. There have been other examples on Reddit where he as asked a question in a respectful manner and he didn't like the question, so he just stormed off and wouldn't talk anymore.
I judge people on actions. When people behave in a secretive or deceptive way, then my assumptions of them going forward are based on that experience.
I have a hard time considering a (probably several week long) testing phase of a big announced revamp as "secretive" or "deceptive". It's a big change, we're invited to test it and see how it works for us.
I get what you're doing, and I respect it, you're trying to defuse hostility and get people to see each side of the argument. It's a noble goal, but honestly, right now I don't see the other side. I just see more of what I have seen from this company for years and I'm just tired of it. I will however, in the interest of diffusing hostility, put down the torch and step off the 'soap box.' I have said my piece here, I know in the end it won't make any difference anyway, so out of respect for future productive discussion, I'll drop it. Thank you for presenting your side in a calm and rational manner, I'll consider your points and see if I can get past this, but right now, I have to admit I'm pretty angry over the entire thing.
I guess it's a matter of "familiarity breeds contempt". I used to be more angry about STO, too. The whole failure to balance PvP soured me for 2 years from the game. But it's not really productive.
One thing to remember is: If the developers are really out to get us, they can.
One of the thing that bothers me most about the "But I paid for this item, you can't nerf it" attitude many people on the forums seem to have is that pay-for-power always is in favor of the people that sell the power (Cryptic, in this case).
Making a better starship or better console is a simple effort for Cryptic. The Aux bug on Tribble should remind us how easily they can ruin something, and the armor penetration bug where we got 10 times the advertised bonus shows how easy they can put in overpowered stuff. A zero in the right place, and everything changes. Something like the Fleet System or the Tier 6 ship however reminds us that they are putting in some real work there, too. Tier 6 ships are obvious power-creep, but they aren't just selling us power creep, they sell us a complete new ability set with new gameplay effects, and new ship models on top of that. Some still find it lame, but it's a far cry from the "evil" they could actually do if they got lazy and cheap. (And I don't know if people would really stop to think about it when that happened, or just see "Yeah, my Zen is well spend!")
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
That adjusting and re-adjusting is going to be the problem if the respects aren't free.
With 16 toons even respect for 100 zen is going to be to much (almost all toons are build in a different way).
We need 2 or 3 respects for free (per toon).
Or you know port your toons over to tribble and do it for free?
No. Disrespect but not everyone can play on Tribble. There are various reasons for it among them some are just casual player and don't know how to even get into it. Most notable are the new players that don't know about the game itself more or less about Tribble. I don't about you but I had to wait to get a confirmation about playing on Tribble. What more he said he had 16 toons all uniquely build so kinda more task going back and forth all 16 of them if he tries importing them all. But anyway that's just my opinion and again I mean no disrespect.
As for the OP's comment I do agree on some. Still there are lots of work ahead for their team. I still don't like the idea of a Sale since it will inflate more the Dil Exchange. This would only hurt the F2P's. Instead of encouraging them to eventually pour on the money sometime later it might backfire and make them stay away from the game. Seriously yes it is just a 5 dollar but not everyone has access or can have access to this currency.
I know because it took me a while before I found a good method on buying Zen with IRL money from my country. And not every country has the same luxury as other countries most specially countries not on the 1st world status playing this game. You can say there are ways but might be difficult for them.
I still say give free respec tokens for leveling on set level. 15, 30, 50 and 60. 4 tokens for each toon should be enough. Giving a reset +free tokens to each toons (Limited just for the event may seem like a big lose to Cryptic but a wise business man knows that sometimes you need to loose some in order to gain some more. And in this point of time they need to show that this "Skill Revamp" is indeed really aimed on helping players not another way to squeeze out money.
I just hope Bort and company tries and consider this. Will they again contribute to the problems pure F2P's are facing by making the means of making the exchange inflate again, or will they do the opposite and do something better? Seriously what they do during the launch of this new skills will either be a way for people to promote the game more on a positive side or on the negative side. If people felt they are not being ripped off then chances are people would recommend this game being played to other people. If they felt other wise they might be the ones telling people to not play this.
Again just my own personal opinion. But Kudos for Bort for doing a good job none the less and being active with the community. My hat's off to you and your Team
i dont know how good this design choice is yet, how big the fall out will be and how far reaching it will be over a duration and what domino effect it will have as so predictably changes introduced usually produce.
as i am usually doing with this sort of stuff, sitting on the fence waiting for the other shoe to drop.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
Any idea of when this is going live?
During the interview he said when 11.5 comes out, but nothing specific.
I dunno, I get that there is a lot of work to be done, and there are issues that need to be addressed -- and there are positive signs that the devs are making steps to fix these problems -- but whining about criticism on twitter is also pretty petty and unprofessional.
Umm look the post by dragonridr. He is complaining about a .014% reduction in damage because he was "promised" he would lose nothing. If I had to deal with a playerbase that has people like him in it, unprofessional or not, I would tweet about it too...followed by all communication ending and basically telling the players to go to hell. .014%...that is completely and utterly unreasonable and I don't blame the devs for getting upset when they have to deal with completely unreasonable people.
Damn, the post I made was because I can notice the difference in damage I was doing. The damage was not the only thing I noticed. I was merely stating the fact that my damage is not the same no matter how many times I tried to redo the skill tree. If you paid more attention to the damage that you do and how much you can take, you can also notice it as well. The plasmonic leech nerf and the Destabilized Plasma Torp nerf was unwarranted and unneeded. Instead of nerfing players, they should make a bigger effort to work the AI better at using abilities at the right time instead of giving them huge amounts of HP.
The more we allow devs to get away with, the more they will take. Sometimes you have to take a stand. It is the players who pays their bills.
All this praise and "sucking up" does no good for me if the build I spent a few years trying to perfect, and now I am FORCED to change my playstyle because the build is no longer viable. My Fed Tac was set up to shut people down so the team could do clean up. I tried for a few hours to recreate that same EXACT build with the new system, and ended up frustrated. My shut downs no longer work long enough, and my damage has been cut in half.
So when the dev blog said "Player will lose nothing" followed with Bort saying in an interview that some sacrifices in abilities to make others work are contradictory. It's no wonder trust is something a lot of players rarely give to the Devs. So unless either the blog is changed or Bort rephrases his comment, then I feel trust will be hard to get from the players again.
Then give him the feedback, and hope that he will listen to it. It's all you can do, really.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
Really? As far as I can see all the forums have to say on the matter is whining about some things not being quite as OP as they used to.
All this praise and "sucking up" does no good for me if the build I spent a few years trying to perfect, and now I am FORCED to change my playstyle because the build is no longer viable. My Fed Tac was set up to shut people down so the team could do clean up. I tried for a few hours to recreate that same EXACT build with the new system, and ended up frustrated. My shut downs no longer work long enough, and my damage has been cut in half.
So when the dev blog said "Player will lose nothing" followed with Bort saying in an interview that some sacrifices in abilities to make others work are contradictory. It's no wonder trust is something a lot of players rarely give to the Devs. So unless either the blog is changed or Bort rephrases his comment, then I feel trust will be hard to get from the players again.
Then give him the feedback, and hope that he will listen to it. It's all you can do, really.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
Really? As far as I can see all the forums have to say on the matter is whining about some things not being quite as OP as they used to.
you dont write for anyone but yourself, and you misunderstand what others want as a whine, you should read their comments again.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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Totes onboard there, it is much better and I can't wait to see it go live. I'm looking forward to what they're bringing out through this year.
Like anyone has the respect to do that. One thread is never enough to contain all the doom.
My Tac Officer is using Intel abilities for shutting people down, and well as relying in crippling fire and other like abilities to keep their systems offline.
I have tried replicated the EXACT build into the new system and just does NOT work, She take more damage now, and is dealing only about half the damage as she used to.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=shutdownspecialist_0
If you like the skill revamp and think they are doing a good job, great, hopefully a third time is a charm. However, to even suggest this will allow them to do a game wide rebalance is nothing short but ridiculous. And if they did do a game wide rebalance, oh man, barer down the hatches now!
It's far, far too late for any game rebalancing now IMO. The game is too old to do that. If it was newer, maybe, but not in its current life cycle.
The skill tree represent just one portion of how your abilities, power and strength comes together. There are consoles, the ships themselves, passives(from boffs/doffs and yourself), what you grab from the rep tree...and there's more. They kept adding more elements to the game without properly checking the causes and effect of what each added element did.
The performance gap between players from the weakest setup to the strongest has never been wider. The skill revamp potentially could help that a bit, but in no way can it provide a game wide rebalance.
I will say however, Bort and any others who have worked on the new skill tree have worked hard and is continuing to do so. This so far, has been probably the best in terms of feedback being received and being acknowledge that I have seen in a very long time, so yes, for that, great job.
You know, the problem here is - ascribing too many motivations.
The important feedback is: Plasmonic Leech does less than it used. You do want that, or you do not want that. And you can safely stop right there.
You don't need to assume they are doing it because they "sold enough" (as if there is such a thing). That they deliberately tried to mislead everyone, or trying to ruin someone's fun, or whatever.
You don't know why they did that. You can make up all kind of theories why, but... you don't know. And if you assume that there is malice involved, you should not be surprised if this is actually a hurtful comment to Borticus or others.
Before the skill revamp, the drain boosting skills did not behave identical across all skills. Some powers got bonus X per point of the skill, some got a bonus 2X, some got bonus 4X. Borticus is now settling for 2X. That "nerfs" Energy Siphon and Plasmonic Leech because they were in the 4X category before. It buffs others because they were 1X.
Further, the idea that they nerf old stuff because they "sold enough" is a wonderful conspiracy theory that doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. You know, when they can sell power, they can always do that. It's relatively easy for Cryptic to invent something that is more powerful than what we had before.
They don't need to nerf old stuff for that. If the sales for an item are dwindling down, the least return on investment would be using a dev's time to nerf it.
When they feel their sales dwinding down, you know what they do? They raise the level cap. They introduce Fleet Ships. They release a new lockbox. They introduce a new ship tier.
They have practically no reason to go back and nerf something old just for the sake of selling something else.
The reason to go back to old items is to fix bugs or balance issues that negatively impact the game (and thus negatively impact sales overall). Or because you have to, because some system is significantly changing. Like with the skill revamp.
If they were at all interested in balance they probably would not introduce series of balance disruptions with price tags.
A user can make their peace with this paradigm or they can be driven away over time, b/c it is pretty self-evident that nothing on Terra will alter the paradigm.
"Here buy a balance breaker kid!" and then months/years later "no soup for you" is not my thing so I refrain from boutique builds.
Bort also stated in the same interview that the feedback they are looking for is NOT BUGS or ISSUES. The feedback they want is whether or not the new system is enjoyable. He says they have their own team working on finding bugs and issues. If they want feedback on if it's enjoyable or not, all they have to do is read the forums.
Wanted to recognize that some or a lot of the feedback, mine included, has been harsh at times. On the game play end, there is frustration with many elements that have lingered and continue to, and equally on yours I suspect you have other constraints bearing down on you all which no doubt cannot be spoken of for obvious reasons.
Clear communication I firmly believe is a step in the right direction even if it takes a while for the dust to settle.
Look forward to learning how to test things and provide feedback both in the numbers and the qualitative 'feel' of gameplay, making sure to take into account the wider picture of different career types, builds, mains vs alts, casual/newly leveled players and those much more dedicated, and difficulty scaling from normal to elite and how this little slice adds to that big picture, time permitting.
I go by what I see, just like anyone else.
The Leech has been the way it is for years.. years and years and now, all the sudden it's a problem? Like I said, it's one thing if they release something, post an 'oops' and then fix it right away. To introduce an item into the game, leave it untouched for years and then suddenly say 'oh, now we have to fix it,' yeah.. I find that suspicious. Especially since they were not transparent about it and tried to sneak it in without anyone noticing during the time when everyone was fixated on the new skill system. When people hide their actions and aren't transparent in their motivation, suspicion is generated. It's how it is, and how it always will be. Their methods lead me to suspicion, simple as that.
As for Bort getting offended, well.. sorry, but I can't help that. Any question to Bort makes him mad, and I'm not going to dance around it just because he's always looking for reasons to be offended. If I offended him, sorry.. but I find his lack of transparency and over use of the 'nerf hammer' offensive, so I guess we're even there.
If that's true then....launch is going to be swell.....
Because your claim that they are doing it because they "sold enough" plasmonic leeches makes no sense. There is no cut-off point where selling plasmonic leeches is not profitable any more for them. It doesn't matter if they are sold 10 a day or once a year, every new zen sale in the pursuit of a plasmonic leech is a net gain for them.
And ther eis an obvious risk to nerfing things that people "bought" - people might fear it could happen to stuff they buy in the future, too, and make them stop buying.
So your "Logic" isn't.
I doubt he's actually made, but he is willing to call out people for ascribing motivations to him.
By using words like "stealth nerf" or creating wild speculation that things got nerfed because sales of an item were dwindling down, you're ascribing motivations to him, and you're painting things in an emotional light. Instead of first inquiring about it, you already make up your reasons and assume they must be true, and you refuse to actually listen to replis and say they are dishonest. Under such circumstance, he can barely give meaningful replies, because if they don't fit your personal theories, they must be lies and falsehoods.
Feedback could simply have been: "I noticed that Plasmonic Leech is now draining less than it used to? Is it bugged, or is this an intentional change? Personally, I think Plasmaonic Leech was fine as before, and this will negatively affect my build. I would prefer it it would be returned to its old values." If you've got the time for it, you could provide your Tribble and Holodeck builds even and show the differences.
But no, instead, people create threads like "Stealth Nerf on Tribble! Quick every have a look and berate Cryptic and BorticusCryptic for nerfing the expensive gear we bought. Look how they are out to get us! Doom is upon us all if we don't show our righteous indignation now?"
The developers have plenty of options to "stealth nerf" anything they want. They don't need to invite us to Tribble to check out the changes to the new skill system, update tooltips and ask us to test things and provide data on our stats and abilities between Holdodeck and Tribble. They could just change things under the hood and you'd never know that there were any changes.
So my grumbling mostly, is more to the way They do things that to me, seem to leave me in the dark and come suddenly with no explanation other than a half-hearted "Sorry".
I very much do appreciate that They (Bort & Taco especially) put a lot of Their love and talents into this game for our benefit.
But I too, am in the camp of just tells us what the plan is (good or bad) and be honest up front, rather than leaving it for the player-base to discover inadvertently.
A hearty Thank You For Caring would be the result from me, every time.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
"pats on the shoulder" You're kidding yourself if you think there will be any *balance* it's going to be FaW as usual...FaW hard!
To be clear, I fully acknowledge that my theory about sales falling off is just that.. a theory. I apologize if you believe I intended to pass that off as fact, I didn't.
The issue here is that I'm left to theorize because they're not being upfront and honest with the information. The thread you're talking about was called 'Stealth Nerf?' with a question mark, and if you read it.. it's hardly a call out thread or an 'I caught you!' It's a legitimate question, and it was responded to with Bort telling us that we're all over reacting and posting a quote of some cryptic (excuse the pun) 2 line sentence that said basically 'some stuff will change' and blaming us from not inferring from that information that the Leech was getting nerfed. There have been other examples on Reddit where he as asked a question in a respectful manner and he didn't like the question, so he just stormed off and wouldn't talk anymore.
Here is the core issue at hand, when you do things in secret and hide your motivations people are going to assume the worst. The leech is just one example, it was changed in the background without any transparency and when questioned the response was overly defensive and frankly, somewhat insulting. This is what leads people to draw conclusions, it generates suspicion and makes everyone assume the worst. The Dev team has to know that Plasmonic Leech is a core console in almost every popular build outside of Torpedo Boats, they know that a reduction to that item is going to have major consequences. Yet they couldn't even put out one sentence explaining what they're doing or why. Instead, they just threw it in and tried to sneak it by hoping no one would notice.
I judge people on actions. When people behave in a secretive or deceptive way, then my assumptions of them going forward are based on that experience. I get what you're doing, and I respect it, you're trying to defuse hostility and get people to see each side of the argument. It's a noble goal, but honestly, right now I don't see the other side. I just see more of what I have seen from this company for years and I'm just tired of it. I will however, in the interest of diffusing hostility, put down the torch and step off the 'soap box.' I have said my piece here, I know in the end it won't make any difference anyway, so out of respect for future productive discussion, I'll drop it. Thank you for presenting your side in a calm and rational manner, I'll consider your points and see if I can get past this, but right now, I have to admit I'm pretty angry over the entire thing.
Also, keep in mind that when you do things differently, but still take the same time to finish a mission, you weren't nerfed. You gameplay changed, sure. But your power level remains the same.
And finally, this game NEEDS nerfs. When an escort can tank npcs while standing still and not using abilities (not to mention blow them up in 1 second), things have gone too far. If we lose 50% of our effectiveness, we will still steamroll 95% of the content. So lighten up please. A nerf would actually improve the game, and even if it were a secretive one, I'd appluad it.
I have a hard time considering a (probably several week long) testing phase of a big announced revamp as "secretive" or "deceptive". It's a big change, we're invited to test it and see how it works for us.
I guess it's a matter of "familiarity breeds contempt". I used to be more angry about STO, too. The whole failure to balance PvP soured me for 2 years from the game. But it's not really productive.
One thing to remember is: If the developers are really out to get us, they can.
One of the thing that bothers me most about the "But I paid for this item, you can't nerf it" attitude many people on the forums seem to have is that pay-for-power always is in favor of the people that sell the power (Cryptic, in this case).
Making a better starship or better console is a simple effort for Cryptic. The Aux bug on Tribble should remind us how easily they can ruin something, and the armor penetration bug where we got 10 times the advertised bonus shows how easy they can put in overpowered stuff. A zero in the right place, and everything changes. Something like the Fleet System or the Tier 6 ship however reminds us that they are putting in some real work there, too. Tier 6 ships are obvious power-creep, but they aren't just selling us power creep, they sell us a complete new ability set with new gameplay effects, and new ship models on top of that. Some still find it lame, but it's a far cry from the "evil" they could actually do if they got lazy and cheap. (And I don't know if people would really stop to think about it when that happened, or just see "Yeah, my Zen is well spend!")
No. Disrespect but not everyone can play on Tribble. There are various reasons for it among them some are just casual player and don't know how to even get into it. Most notable are the new players that don't know about the game itself more or less about Tribble. I don't about you but I had to wait to get a confirmation about playing on Tribble. What more he said he had 16 toons all uniquely build so kinda more task going back and forth all 16 of them if he tries importing them all. But anyway that's just my opinion and again I mean no disrespect.
As for the OP's comment I do agree on some. Still there are lots of work ahead for their team. I still don't like the idea of a Sale since it will inflate more the Dil Exchange. This would only hurt the F2P's. Instead of encouraging them to eventually pour on the money sometime later it might backfire and make them stay away from the game. Seriously yes it is just a 5 dollar but not everyone has access or can have access to this currency.
I know because it took me a while before I found a good method on buying Zen with IRL money from my country. And not every country has the same luxury as other countries most specially countries not on the 1st world status playing this game. You can say there are ways but might be difficult for them.
I still say give free respec tokens for leveling on set level. 15, 30, 50 and 60. 4 tokens for each toon should be enough. Giving a reset +free tokens to each toons (Limited just for the event may seem like a big lose to Cryptic but a wise business man knows that sometimes you need to loose some in order to gain some more. And in this point of time they need to show that this "Skill Revamp" is indeed really aimed on helping players not another way to squeeze out money.
I just hope Bort and company tries and consider this. Will they again contribute to the problems pure F2P's are facing by making the means of making the exchange inflate again, or will they do the opposite and do something better? Seriously what they do during the launch of this new skills will either be a way for people to promote the game more on a positive side or on the negative side. If people felt they are not being ripped off then chances are people would recommend this game being played to other people. If they felt other wise they might be the ones telling people to not play this.
Again just my own personal opinion. But Kudos for Bort for doing a good job none the less and being active with the community. My hat's off to you and your Team
as i am usually doing with this sort of stuff, sitting on the fence waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Any idea of when this is going live?
Damn, the post I made was because I can notice the difference in damage I was doing. The damage was not the only thing I noticed. I was merely stating the fact that my damage is not the same no matter how many times I tried to redo the skill tree. If you paid more attention to the damage that you do and how much you can take, you can also notice it as well. The plasmonic leech nerf and the Destabilized Plasma Torp nerf was unwarranted and unneeded. Instead of nerfing players, they should make a bigger effort to work the AI better at using abilities at the right time instead of giving them huge amounts of HP.
The more we allow devs to get away with, the more they will take. Sometimes you have to take a stand. It is the players who pays their bills.
Remember DR? That debacle is behind us. Give peace a chance.
Really? As far as I can see all the forums have to say on the matter is whining about some things not being quite as OP as they used to.
you dont write for anyone but yourself, and you misunderstand what others want as a whine, you should read their comments again.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.