This seems to be some sort of stramash of various mechanisms used in other games but made slightly more complex and probably frustrating to use. Good effort though
OP, some of your ideas sound nice but others are just too complicated in my opinion. I would personally remove player rank progression completely. The game should revolve around the player being a freshly baked captain as this is what Star Trek is about. All the other ranks can and should be included in micromanaging your crew but you should never be anything else than captain. I can see something like a prestige rank system at end-game, letting you choose between being a "Fleet Captain" or an "Admiral", changing the gameplay to a more supportive role or a more action oreinted role or somethign like that.
Also I'd not offer so many subclasses. As a Starfleet officer you are by the very nature of the game a command branch officer. You could have a varying background influencing some skillsets (maybe crew management) but ultimately you wear "red". I don't see much merit to include privateers and pirates and all of that into the mix - it works for Star Wars but it's somewhat out of place in Star Trek. Likewise with the other factions, of which I would choose three (and only three) and go for a DAOC-esque game with three faction gameplay and you would play a KDF officer and a, probably, Romulan officer in their space faring services. While including civilian and non-affiliated classes and characters sound like an interesting thing to do I fear it's just way too much, you'll just overload the game.
Three factions with different and distinct gameplay would be welcome. You have Starfleet doing things this way, Klingons prefering that and Romulans having these primary skillsets and limit the exceptions and cross-faction choices to a bare minimum, if at all. Just llook at DAOC and similiar games handle it.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Piracy in Star Trek is something the various factions deal with differently, the Vidiians did a lot of it, so did the Nausicaans and the Orions are famous for it...
You're wrong. I just read on memory alpha that ST Countdown is not considered canon therefore your argument holds water like a bucket without bottom.
Anyways, what's up with all the critics (well, mostly critics)? Does anyone likes anything of my ideas or thinks he/she can contribute to discussion? I'm fine with critics, but when there is nothing besides them, people tend to get disappointed and so do I.
I think the confusion about Countdown's Canon validity is from what is written on the Wiki that you may have misunderstood. I know that it was the interview of Orci that the statement of which when he was asked about the Narada and the Kelvin battle where the ship survived a bit rather than being 1 hit kill.
This is where Orci replied the "Non-Canon" remark but then said it was. Hence the confusion.
But what is Canon ST? What is the measure of becoming a Canon? To put it simply canon works on ST can be put in 3 ways:
1. Shown on Television.
2. Shown on the Movie Big Screen.
3. And is approved by CBS and Paramount.
Technically for example the Sovereign was used on books yet it was only seen on the Big Screen. The ship is Canon. But as for the books they are not. Unless of course CBS or Paramount say they are. The prequel Comics Countdown can also go down this path as being "Non-Canon" but the comics is a special case.
The Comics was actually made as a tie-in for the movie to explain things that happened that lead to the movie itself. Not like other books or comics where they are not actually commissioned by the movie makers themselves and was actually approved by Paramount as a Tie-in to the movie.
What happened on the Movie is Canon. No matter what Romulus was destroyed. Spock and the Nerada going into the past and creating an Alternate timeline. Also Canon. And the Comics is just there to explain how everything lead to the movie.
Vulcan being Destroyed is also Canon- For the Alternate universe or JJverse. Not the Prime Universe.
Now with this we have 2 Types of Canon. The Alternate Movie Verse and the Prime Verse. Or as I would like to Call it CBS Canon and Paramount Canon. The thing is The TV show can Alter this events more easily than the Movie hence it is a safe bet as why the New Star Trek films are based on an Alternate Timeline. This is because by preserving the Old time line which ended on TNG and Nemesis, the Old fans can still enjoy the history of the Prime verse.
While the New movies are mostly aimed for the new generation of movie goers or those who want to have an updated retelling of the old classic and play catch-up to what Star Trek is all about.
I enjoyed watching the New movies as itself because I know it's not really touching the old Prime verse and as long as it is that way I wont mind. But yes I did cringe on some of the things on the movie most particularly on the ship interiors and lighting. The bridge is too shinny and doesn't feel like the old Connie. I really hate how the engine room looks and the pathways makes it look like a big mall rather than a real ship. I really don't want to go on the little niches I have with the movie but none the less it does have some good points. One of them for me is Sulu. When he was asked to sit on the Captain's chair on the 2nd movie it was like a premonition of him becoming the Captain of the Excelsior. Just correct me if I'm talking about the wrong ship here.
As for the Suggestion as they all said it's too complicated but rather instead of simple. But more than that too costly to produce. There are reasons why things are scaled the way they are on STO and one of them is cost, both on the needed memory etch and money. Unless you are actually a game developer this things you will know are not easy to do and to even apply for they will create more problematic factors most specially for a mid size company.
a) The IP owners have defined "Trek canon" as including everything committed to film, either movie or TV. (Sadly, that means I have to use headcanon to deny "The Omega Glory", "Angel One", Threshold", and "These Are the Voyages...")
b) While the majority of the action in the '09 movie took place in an alternate timeline, the Hobus supernova and subsequent inexplicable destruction of Romulus took place before the Nerada and the Jellyfish went through their temporal shenanigans. This places those events firmly in the Prime timeline,
c) Therefore, the destruction of Romulus is canon in the Prime universe. Your personal preferences are irrelevant, just as my distaste for what I consider the nadir of TOS, even worse than "Spock's Brain".
Now, can we please cease flogging this poor equine? We're disturbing the newly-hatched flies.
Order of Kahless members - Klingon version of Section 31.
Not even close, dude.
To be a member of the Order of Kahless simply means you were awarded the Star of Kahless - a highly prestigious Klingon decoration awarded for remarkable displays of honor, valor and leadership in battle. (Ref: DS9 7x21 "When It Rains...") It's roughly analogous to the Legion of Merit awarded by the US Armed Forces today.
The Klingons have no "version" of Section 31. They have no use for subterfuge to hide within the ranks of KDF or the Empire. The closest they have to an equivalent covert operations organization would be the Klingon Intelligence Service, which operates more like Starfleet Intelligence in that they are overtly a part of the KDF hierarchy, unlike Section 31 which a rogue organization answerable to no one, or the Tal Shiar or Obsidian order which are military forces unto themselves.
If you're going to propose such a bad idea for a game as the OP describes, you should probably try to get at least a few things right.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Okay, first off, the destruction of Romulus happened in both the 2009 movie as a flashback set in Prime, while the actual events prior to and during the Hobus Supernova as well as the aftermath, was depicted in the officially published book called Countdown. Which is confirmed to be CANON.
You're wrong. I just read on memory alpha that ST Countdown is not considered canon therefore your argument holds water like a bucket without bottom.
Anyways, what's up with all the critics (well, mostly critics)? Does anyone likes anything of my ideas or thinks he/she can contribute to discussion? I'm fine with critics, but when there is nothing besides them, people tend to get disappointed and so do I.
Memory Alpha is user written and can be fallible. When Countdown was released it was considered official canon. I don't see why they would have changed it later.
Memory Alpha is user written and can be fallible. When Countdown was released it was considered official canon. I don't see why they would have changed it later.
Who considered it official canon? The only definition of canon CBS/Paramount ever gave was 'The TV-shows, including TAS (went with the DVD release) and cinematic releases'. This definition was removed from the site when they changed the layout but since then there was no other definition.
STO isn't canon either and it's not meant to be the official continuation.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
While interesting your career list has 1 massive flaw. You limited ships to a single career (Command Officer) sadly Any game that has done this has everyone gravitate to it like moths to a flame(Cough Cough Tactical) Limiting Dreads and other large ships as well as all the large command powers to a single class is like saying "hey look at this it's OP use it now!" and people always go for that.
Yes, but you are forgetting something. Command officer profession would be available (maybe just not from the very start) to anyone so anyone could in the end get that Dreadnought Carrier ship. The reason why I would make them unique for that profession is basic logic and that is that most powerful and biggest starship usually are also the most rare ships in the fleet. And if you take a look at the ship list correctly you will notice that my game wouldn't aim to be balanced. Yes, same type of ships would be balanced (for example: battleship vs. battleship), but less powerful type of ship could never really take on the more powerful ships (for example: Bird of Prey wouldn't be able to do much harm to Sovereign class in 1 on 1 battle). That is the style of gameplay shown in Bridge Commander, Legacy, Starfleet Command 3 and other such great Trek games. I must admit that I was seriously disappointed when I was first time playing STO and my Sovereign class got pwned by Bird Of Prey. So I suggested idea which would eliminate that kind of unrealistic scenarios.
OP, some of your ideas sound nice but others are just too complicated in my opinion. I would personally remove player rank progression completely. The game should revolve around the player being a freshly baked captain as this is what Star Trek is about. All the other ranks can and should be included in micromanaging your crew but you should never be anything else than captain. I can see something like a prestige rank system at end-game, letting you choose between being a "Fleet Captain" or an "Admiral", changing the gameplay to a more supportive role or a more action oreinted role or somethign like that.
Well, I guessed some rank progression would be necessary evil, so I have tried to come up with something that I consider it would be a best solution. And if you take a good look, you will notice that there is no Fleet Admiral rank, but just Admiral and you are only able to achieve it through Command officer profession. Sounds logical, right?
That leaves most of other profession having end rank of Fleet Captain which also would take quite some time to get.
Micromanaging of crew is also I nice idea that would have been in my game too and not all of the bridge officer/crewmembers could have commander rank.
Also I'd not offer so many subclasses. As a Starfleet officer you are by the very nature of the game a command branch officer. You could have a varying background influencing some skillsets (maybe crew management) but ultimately you wear "red". I don't see much merit to include privateers and pirates and all of that into the mix - it works for Star Wars but it's somewhat out of place in Star Trek. Likewise with the other factions, of which I would choose three (and only three) and go for a DAOC-esque game with three faction gameplay and you would play a KDF officer and a, probably, Romulan officer in their space faring services. While including civilian and non-affiliated classes and characters sound like an interesting thing to do I fear it's just way too much, you'll just overload the game.
Three factions with different and distinct gameplay would be welcome. You have Starfleet doing things this way, Klingons prefering that and Romulans having these primary skillsets and limit the exceptions and cross-faction choices to a bare minimum, if at all. Just llook at DAOC and similiar games handle it.
Those are actually professions and as I said, you could have max. two or three of them combined, but that would limit you ih having all skills of single profession. If you choose a single profession you could max. and have all its skills/benefits. If you choose 2 professions you could have about 70% of all skills/abilities from each profession. And about 50% if you choose 3 different professions. I'm not quite sure if I explained it correctly, but I hope you will understand what I meant to say by it.
Besides that, having more profession would give game more diversity and thus make it more interesting which would result in better replaying ability and more character setups as well.
As for the factions I think 4 of them is certainly the most appropriate since there are four major powers of Alpha/Beta quadrant and those are Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians as well. Besides I would never accept making a game without my favorite faction which are Cardassians.
And when it comes to civilian factions, they would be not a faction, but rather an independent citizens of one of the aforementioned 4 factions. Only difference would be that they have no ties with Starfleet, KDF, Romulan Imperial fleet or CDF, nor with those secret/intelligence services.
Order of Kahless members - Klingon version of Section 31.
Not even close, dude.
To be a member of the Order of Kahless simply means you were awarded the Star of Kahless - a highly prestigious Klingon decoration awarded for remarkable displays of honor, valor and leadership in battle. (Ref: DS9 7x21 "When It Rains...") It's roughly analogous to the Legion of Merit awarded by the US Armed Forces today.
The Klingons have no "version" of Section 31. They have no use for subterfuge to hide within the ranks of KDF or the Empire. The closest they have to an equivalent covert operations organization would be the Klingon Intelligence Service, which operates more like Starfleet Intelligence in that they are overtly a part of the KDF hierarchy, unlike Section 31 which a rogue organization answerable to no one, or the Tal Shiar or Obsidian order which are military forces unto themselves.
If you're going to propose such a bad idea for a game as the OP describes, you should probably try to get at least a few things right.
Well I have obviously forgotten about that, but I saw somewhere Order of Kahless being a name of Klingon intelligence service (might be from some game or fanfiction as well) and so that's the reason why I wrote it. Sure, that name might not have been the best choice given the fact that the name is used for different purpose in the aforementioned DS9 episode.
At the first I was thinking of writing Klingon intelligence service instead, but that name just doesn't had enough coolness so I tried to come up with something else. Obviously I have made a mistake and if you have better suggestion, please feel free to write it.
And now back to my ignorance of Romulus destruction. Yes, it is true I don't like it. Whoever has come up with that particular idea must have been really high on drugs, as it most of people say it is complete and utter bullsh*t.
They could have destroyed some other not so important planet and still have a big bad guy craving for revenge and still making alternate universe which I'm sure would be more acceptable. But despite that their main planet is gone, Romulans still have huge area of space besides that particular system and probably could still stand on their own. It's not like that their entire Empire has been conquered and that's exactly how current STO laid out the storyline. Sure, they have to find the new capital planet, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they cannot be major power anymore.
So yeah in my game, destruction of Romulus probably would be ignored, or in case it wouldn't Romulans would still be major power, as well as Cardassians.
FED ENG:FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC:ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta):LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
Comments
Me, I just want space combat to be more like Legacy or Bridge Commander.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Also I'd not offer so many subclasses. As a Starfleet officer you are by the very nature of the game a command branch officer. You could have a varying background influencing some skillsets (maybe crew management) but ultimately you wear "red". I don't see much merit to include privateers and pirates and all of that into the mix - it works for Star Wars but it's somewhat out of place in Star Trek. Likewise with the other factions, of which I would choose three (and only three) and go for a DAOC-esque game with three faction gameplay and you would play a KDF officer and a, probably, Romulan officer in their space faring services. While including civilian and non-affiliated classes and characters sound like an interesting thing to do I fear it's just way too much, you'll just overload the game.
Three factions with different and distinct gameplay would be welcome. You have Starfleet doing things this way, Klingons prefering that and Romulans having these primary skillsets and limit the exceptions and cross-faction choices to a bare minimum, if at all. Just llook at DAOC and similiar games handle it.
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My character Tsin'xing
This is where Orci replied the "Non-Canon" remark but then said it was. Hence the confusion.
But what is Canon ST? What is the measure of becoming a Canon? To put it simply canon works on ST can be put in 3 ways:
1. Shown on Television.
2. Shown on the Movie Big Screen.
3. And is approved by CBS and Paramount.
Technically for example the Sovereign was used on books yet it was only seen on the Big Screen. The ship is Canon. But as for the books they are not. Unless of course CBS or Paramount say they are. The prequel Comics Countdown can also go down this path as being "Non-Canon" but the comics is a special case.
The Comics was actually made as a tie-in for the movie to explain things that happened that lead to the movie itself. Not like other books or comics where they are not actually commissioned by the movie makers themselves and was actually approved by Paramount as a Tie-in to the movie.
What happened on the Movie is Canon. No matter what Romulus was destroyed. Spock and the Nerada going into the past and creating an Alternate timeline. Also Canon. And the Comics is just there to explain how everything lead to the movie.
Vulcan being Destroyed is also Canon- For the Alternate universe or JJverse. Not the Prime Universe.
Now with this we have 2 Types of Canon. The Alternate Movie Verse and the Prime Verse. Or as I would like to Call it CBS Canon and Paramount Canon. The thing is The TV show can Alter this events more easily than the Movie hence it is a safe bet as why the New Star Trek films are based on an Alternate Timeline. This is because by preserving the Old time line which ended on TNG and Nemesis, the Old fans can still enjoy the history of the Prime verse.
While the New movies are mostly aimed for the new generation of movie goers or those who want to have an updated retelling of the old classic and play catch-up to what Star Trek is all about.
I enjoyed watching the New movies as itself because I know it's not really touching the old Prime verse and as long as it is that way I wont mind. But yes I did cringe on some of the things on the movie most particularly on the ship interiors and lighting. The bridge is too shinny and doesn't feel like the old Connie. I really hate how the engine room looks and the pathways makes it look like a big mall rather than a real ship. I really don't want to go on the little niches I have with the movie but none the less it does have some good points. One of them for me is Sulu. When he was asked to sit on the Captain's chair on the 2nd movie it was like a premonition of him becoming the Captain of the Excelsior. Just correct me if I'm talking about the wrong ship here.
As for the Suggestion as they all said it's too complicated but rather instead of simple. But more than that too costly to produce. There are reasons why things are scaled the way they are on STO and one of them is cost, both on the needed memory etch and money. Unless you are actually a game developer this things you will know are not easy to do and to even apply for they will create more problematic factors most specially for a mid size company.
a) The IP owners have defined "Trek canon" as including everything committed to film, either movie or TV. (Sadly, that means I have to use headcanon to deny "The Omega Glory", "Angel One", Threshold", and "These Are the Voyages...")
b) While the majority of the action in the '09 movie took place in an alternate timeline, the Hobus supernova and subsequent inexplicable destruction of Romulus took place before the Nerada and the Jellyfish went through their temporal shenanigans. This places those events firmly in the Prime timeline,
c) Therefore, the destruction of Romulus is canon in the Prime universe. Your personal preferences are irrelevant, just as my distaste for what I consider the nadir of TOS, even worse than "Spock's Brain".
Now, can we please cease flogging this poor equine? We're disturbing the newly-hatched flies.
To be a member of the Order of Kahless simply means you were awarded the Star of Kahless - a highly prestigious Klingon decoration awarded for remarkable displays of honor, valor and leadership in battle. (Ref: DS9 7x21 "When It Rains...") It's roughly analogous to the Legion of Merit awarded by the US Armed Forces today.
The Klingons have no "version" of Section 31. They have no use for subterfuge to hide within the ranks of KDF or the Empire. The closest they have to an equivalent covert operations organization would be the Klingon Intelligence Service, which operates more like Starfleet Intelligence in that they are overtly a part of the KDF hierarchy, unlike Section 31 which a rogue organization answerable to no one, or the Tal Shiar or Obsidian order which are military forces unto themselves.
If you're going to propose such a bad idea for a game as the OP describes, you should probably try to get at least a few things right.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Memory Alpha is user written and can be fallible. When Countdown was released it was considered official canon. I don't see why they would have changed it later.
Who considered it official canon? The only definition of canon CBS/Paramount ever gave was 'The TV-shows, including TAS (went with the DVD release) and cinematic releases'. This definition was removed from the site when they changed the layout but since then there was no other definition.
STO isn't canon either and it's not meant to be the official continuation.
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Yes, but you are forgetting something. Command officer profession would be available (maybe just not from the very start) to anyone so anyone could in the end get that Dreadnought Carrier ship. The reason why I would make them unique for that profession is basic logic and that is that most powerful and biggest starship usually are also the most rare ships in the fleet. And if you take a look at the ship list correctly you will notice that my game wouldn't aim to be balanced. Yes, same type of ships would be balanced (for example: battleship vs. battleship), but less powerful type of ship could never really take on the more powerful ships (for example: Bird of Prey wouldn't be able to do much harm to Sovereign class in 1 on 1 battle). That is the style of gameplay shown in Bridge Commander, Legacy, Starfleet Command 3 and other such great Trek games. I must admit that I was seriously disappointed when I was first time playing STO and my Sovereign class got pwned by Bird Of Prey. So I suggested idea which would eliminate that kind of unrealistic scenarios.
Well, I guessed some rank progression would be necessary evil, so I have tried to come up with something that I consider it would be a best solution. And if you take a good look, you will notice that there is no Fleet Admiral rank, but just Admiral and you are only able to achieve it through Command officer profession. Sounds logical, right?
That leaves most of other profession having end rank of Fleet Captain which also would take quite some time to get.
Micromanaging of crew is also I nice idea that would have been in my game too and not all of the bridge officer/crewmembers could have commander rank.
Those are actually professions and as I said, you could have max. two or three of them combined, but that would limit you ih having all skills of single profession. If you choose a single profession you could max. and have all its skills/benefits. If you choose 2 professions you could have about 70% of all skills/abilities from each profession. And about 50% if you choose 3 different professions. I'm not quite sure if I explained it correctly, but I hope you will understand what I meant to say by it.
Besides that, having more profession would give game more diversity and thus make it more interesting which would result in better replaying ability and more character setups as well.
As for the factions I think 4 of them is certainly the most appropriate since there are four major powers of Alpha/Beta quadrant and those are Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians as well. Besides I would never accept making a game without my favorite faction which are Cardassians.
And when it comes to civilian factions, they would be not a faction, but rather an independent citizens of one of the aforementioned 4 factions. Only difference would be that they have no ties with Starfleet, KDF, Romulan Imperial fleet or CDF, nor with those secret/intelligence services.
Well I have obviously forgotten about that, but I saw somewhere Order of Kahless being a name of Klingon intelligence service (might be from some game or fanfiction as well) and so that's the reason why I wrote it. Sure, that name might not have been the best choice given the fact that the name is used for different purpose in the aforementioned DS9 episode.
At the first I was thinking of writing Klingon intelligence service instead, but that name just doesn't had enough coolness so I tried to come up with something else. Obviously I have made a mistake and if you have better suggestion, please feel free to write it.
And now back to my ignorance of Romulus destruction. Yes, it is true I don't like it. Whoever has come up with that particular idea must have been really high on drugs, as it most of people say it is complete and utter bullsh*t.
They could have destroyed some other not so important planet and still have a big bad guy craving for revenge and still making alternate universe which I'm sure would be more acceptable. But despite that their main planet is gone, Romulans still have huge area of space besides that particular system and probably could still stand on their own. It's not like that their entire Empire has been conquered and that's exactly how current STO laid out the storyline. Sure, they have to find the new capital planet, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they cannot be major power anymore.
So yeah in my game, destruction of Romulus probably would be ignored, or in case it wouldn't Romulans would still be major power, as well as Cardassians.
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!