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Tribble feedback isn't inspiring
huskerklg
Member Posts: 561 Arc User
Tons of posts of not being able to create similar builds. So the claim we won't lose anything is false.
Skill trees front loaded with stuff with no use at low levels.
Front loading with useless stuff while the core pieces of current builds are burried.
And a claim that the design intent of the ultimates was to get people to try other things, burrying core build compents at the ends of trees.
Hopefully there isn't a deadline to when this is being released, because as it is, it needs to be revamped a lot.
Skill trees front loaded with stuff with no use at low levels.
Front loading with useless stuff while the core pieces of current builds are burried.
And a claim that the design intent of the ultimates was to get people to try other things, burrying core build compents at the ends of trees.
Hopefully there isn't a deadline to when this is being released, because as it is, it needs to be revamped a lot.
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or their adding the new stuff instead of gettting all their old skills then seeing what is leftover for new toys. and some misunstanding on how much each point is worth. only they most minmaxed people should lose anything worth speaking probably only tell they figure out how to break the new stuff. lazy people like me should have net gain.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
A lot of the issues with players being unable to replicate similar builds on Holodeck has more to do with learning the new skill tree and where things are. Especially since quite a bit of it is compacted with others.
The Front Loading is an issue and needs to be looked at. A suggestion has been made to move them around and Borticus has acknowledged it. Although personally I feel like some of the choices are down right Non-Starters for anyone not running those builds (ie Torp Boats/Stealth-MES/Carriers). Personally Id like to see them mix things up a bit so that the Nodes arent asking a player to pick between two things that would have nothing to do with the build theyre working on. Its a poor incentive to invest skill points further into a tree when those Nodes provide no benefit.
The Ultimates do seem to be a distraction that is going to bite Cryptic in the ***. Theyre new, theyre far up on the Skill Tree where you have to invest 25 points to unlock the ability and 28 to fully invest in it. In some cases investing points into things you have no interest in or have no need for just so you can obtain the Ultimate. Thats points wasted when you consider you only have 45 to spend and every point counts in a system like this. Players who arent looking at these on Tribble are going to assume theyre worth the investment. And because their new and shiny players will chase them. The issue is that with 28 points into a particular skill tree it leaves you with very little to throw around elsewhere. Making your choices with skill points very important and likely to end up with a pigeonholed build on the first respec just to obtain the Ultimate. Players are not going to be happy when they realize their builds are not as flexible as they once were because they had to invest more than half of the points into a single Skill Tree with 5-6 points on things that they dont use (Hanger Pet Buffs and Torpedo Buffs) just to play with the new shiny.
Personally Id like to see the Nodes re-done as they are so far lacking in incentivizing the general playerbase. Half of them have no incentive for anyone besides some niche playstyles.
Id like to see the Carrier Skills moved to its own Skill Tree and something else pushed into the Tactical Tree in its place so that Players who ARENT looking to fly Carriers and launch pets arent forced to invest into something they have no interest in using.
The Engineering Ultimate is gimicky and rather useless vs the seemingly well done Tactical Ultimate and whats beginning to appear to be OP Science Ultimate.
Someone else suggested it on Tribble but I'll bring it up here. They mentioned moving the Ultimates out from the top of the skill tree and spreading them across the Skill Tree itself. This would allow players to invest where they feel they want their points while also being rewarded for investing more and more points into said skill trees.
This system is supposed to promote a gain/sacrifice system. But in many cases youre gaining nothing but losing a skill point/ node choice. Which is not how a Skill Tree system like this is supposed to work. Every Skill Point/Choice is important and every choice should be between a good choice and another good choice. The current setup does not present this to the playerbase. Not if you want those ultimates.
That's the point which makes me think the OP hasn't even tried the system themselves. Of course the system is still WIP but borticus is active in the feedback thread and even said some thoughts are being taken into consideration, and of course there are still bugs, minor and not so minor, but those are being worked on.
On the other hoof, most people complaining in the feedback thread itself did so after looking at the tree for five minutes and don't like they can't simply have everything in the system conveniently plus new toys and they "suggest" changing it so they can have everything. What kind of criticism is this? STO players are so acustomed to have everything with little to no effort that the thought of making minor choices is completely alien to them,
Also, according to borticus, one point on a skill in the new skill tree is equivalent to nine points in the old - almost nobody is concerned about again getting a power level up across the board feeding power creep. All people are concerned about is "I can't click all of those things! It's broken!"
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Way to generalize the criticism into a neat little 'theyre all whiners and only want want want' package. I'll make sure to call you out the moment this hits Holodeck and youre joining in on the whining that will once again turn into a raging forum fire.
You are clearly not reading everything many of the people who were complaining about the lack of same builds have been shown by others copies of their builds... with spare points.
Do I think the new system is perfect? Not at all there are some very strange skill placements in there and some points, particularly on the tactical 'passive' line are daft as they force choices of skills that both may be irrelevant, but I am enjoying it so far and we shall see how it ends up.
i also think space skills should have a few more skill points for more flexability when it comes to builds.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Not at all. Apart from the inflammatory/insulting language you are trying to put into my mouth, what I point out is right there for ou to check. In the official feedback thread most criticism made that is not limited to UI errors or downright bugs such as miscalculations are aimed at choices that have to be made or "good" (in the meta favourable) choices being available too late / with too much effort. As a possible solution, those people suggested that choices that increase crit chance and severity should be unified so they don't have to sacrifice one thing for the other. Energy weapons and projectiles have beens uggested to be unified, again, to not make sacrifices, get everything and, ultimately, unlock the "deluxe" ability as well while maintining and improving their current build. Following that advice there is no need to redesign the whole system in the first place.
That there will be whining and forum fires I have no doubt about, we already posting in the first thread on that topic even before the system is even finished. But I'm not sure though what you want to call me out about.
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As people have been shown their current builds can already be replicated with points to spare under the new system what other that being even more OP for the content does more points really give? The system seems pretty flexible as it is, I have a number of different builds built on tribble characters at the moment that are very different to one another.
Actually, no, they aren't. Some changes they made, as one example, basically invalidate completelly my own Ground build, and I know couple of other people, who have the same issue. And by invalidate, I mean literally that. There's not 'slight' change, when I'd have to work around and tinker with it <--- see, that could be at least fun, but nah, that's not what's gonna happen, if the ground-skill revamp goes live the way it is. It also takes away options from everyone, not just me.
People complaining about not enough variety for space-combat & cookie-cutter builds? Trust me, you folks have it golden compared to us, grounders.
I'll be sending my feedback/analysis on that... sometime soon.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
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Ohnand a general nerf of everything
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That is exactly the issue I was faced with. It's not that I can't replicate my build. It's that I haven't figured out how to yet. And a lot of the people I've talked to are in the same boat. Things are different. They are moved around. They are combined now. And the values are all different. So like 9 points in Energy Weapon in the current build has different values in the new system.
Yup. The biggest complaint I'm seeing so far, and it's quite valid, is asking low level players to choose between a bonus to stealth or a bonus to hangar pets. If you're a low level Federation toon, you have little to no interest in stealth and no access to hangar pets.
This is the biggest change in the dynamic for me. The idea harkens back to skill trees in other games (WoW, SWTOR, etc). But when trying to replicate my current builds, I'll have zero capability to obtain an Ultimate. So looking hard at the ultimates, I'm not even sure they're worth chasing as none of them seem all that ultimate so far. And that's exactly where my testing is at right now. Do I change my build to get an ultimate? I'm not that enticed to do it right now. I will, to test. But yeah, they're called ultimate, they don't feel that way yet.
On the whole, this has been fun. In terms of giving me something I can actually test it's the first time in a long time I feel I would have any useful feedback on the test environment. And it's just a really new and challenging way to build my character. So I'm loving the ability to try this out. But I fully understand the concerns people are bringing up. I think one of the major points that isn't going to go away is that people have built their characters a certain way in this game (which ends up being very hybrid, all-purpose). This is related to both the current system of building as well as the way that people can "switch starship" so quickly and change on the fly. They want their build to be able to swap through multiple ships and really the best way to build for ages has been to get a more general build anyways.
Now? The game is radically shifting that dynamic. It will meet with friction. And the most common complaint will be "I can't come close to what I had before!" ... even though it seems I certainly can, I just won't have access to ultimates in doing so.
The other concern I have and haven't been able to test this since I can't test it on my own copied over character yet ... will I lose any manuals that I can currently create. As they're in different spots now in terms of progression.
Next week when character copy gets turned back on is when we can really compare. I don't know about anyone else but even speed ranking a character to 60 doesn't compare to how mine are built gear/rep wise.
My own initial impression, I like it. I did notice that captain abilities aren't affected by the skills anymore (at least right now) but that's pretty minor. My perspective is all about ground and it seemed pretty easy to spec with the same focus. The question which won't be answered till next week is, how will my holo chars in the old system compare to Tribble in the new one? Based on what I see I expect the captain powers to stay weaker but kit abilities will be stronger and some other weaker areas where I currently have fewer points allocated will get a boost.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
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ground combat seems like a dinosaur compared to the space skills. there was that crossfire expansion that was meant to expand ground combat a little, but in effect it did nothing. i would be more open to modernising ground combat a bit, i mean space missions and combat has changed over the years, it used to be very tactical centric, heal boat defiants with pew pew, but then there was a phase when science literally took the cake when the dyson torp came out in combination with powerful grav wells. ground seems to of stood still, again a dinosaur.
so what i meant by fine has in there is no real change to it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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On a side note, if separation pets were included in those skills this wouldn't be -as- big of an issue, but I'm sure there are plenty of players who would still be affected.
let em know to upgrade ground combat as well, that way they can add skills to the skill tray and thus you can have more options to go with it and expand on the ground content. information gathering skills, hacking skills, pick up enemy weapons and use them for that mission without it effecting your loadout, when you are done with it, you drop the weapon and it can not be used again.
more martial arts attacks, more destructive science abilities, more engineering centric skills. all of these could add to a much larger ground skill tree.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
1. Auxiliary power and sci related abilities. There are some posts indicating that most sci abilities have had their effectiveness cut in half with the latest changes.
2. Ground builds. I haven't been able to test it myself yet, though I am glad that most of the kit cooldown reduction options are just additional - no changes seem to have made to basic cooldown timers. I don't really use many specialised builds myself, except from healer builds maybe. I'm sure that if builds get completely invalidated, that it will get corrected though. That's what the Tribble server is for btw OP - so your claim that the claim that we won't lose anything is false, is only true for how the system is on Tribble now. It doesn't mean that this claim is false for Holodeck too. That's important to realise, cause it may not make the feedback inspiring, but it does make it useful. And that's a far more relevant criterion imo.
Having spent ~15 hours on Tribble yesterday, I agree with most of what you've said here. Personally, I just think the new tree is grossly over-simplified. It's a short bus skill tree aimed at the least common denominator.
It's just too dumbed-down.
I hear what you're saying, but the new tree forces you to take worthless things in order to get at the things you want and need. The current system might be overly complicated for the tastes of some people, but it allows you far greater flexibility. There's always some way to put the points into something useful under the current system, and that's just not true of the new tree.
Again, the tree seems to have been designed by someone who doesn't play the game very much or very well, and therefore doesn't really understand what we do and how we do it.
Then again, the above is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.