[PODCAST] Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 204: "I stand with Star Trek!"

midniteshadow7 · February 2016

Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 204: "I stand with Star Trek!" has warped on to Holosuite Media, you can download and stream it from:

http://bit.ly/tie204

This week the Tribbles in Ecstasy crew talk to the writers of Star Trek Anthology, Jim Bray, Brian Covault, Anthony Burdge, William Alexander and Gary Karp before discussing this week's gaming news and events from Star Trek Online and Star Trek Timelines. We also give updates on conventions and unofficial Star Trek productions.

The gaming topics discussed this week are:

Star Trek Timelines,
Star Trek Online Events and Sales,
New Tier 6 Flagships,
New roleplay blogs,
and Star Trek Online's Release Notes

The Star Trek and Unoffical Star Trek Production topics discussed this week are:

The Worf Chronicles,
Star Trek Renegades,
Star Trek Anthology,
Star Trek Axanar,
Convention news,
and more!

Our community question this week is:
Do you like the look and the stats of the new T6 Flagships? Will you and/or have you purchased any of them yet?

Please reply to this post with any feedback you have about any topic we've covered or even about the show in general, we'd love to hear what our listeners have to say.

Please help friend of the show and fellow Star Trek Online player and podcaster Mav with donations to support his recovery with his current health situation here: http://www.gofundme.com/tomsrecovery.

LLAP \\//_

sunseahl · February 2016

This was an over 3 HOUR SHOW people!

PREPARE YOUR BUTTS FOR MAXIMUM ACHE!

Also please be aware we had some audio difficulties with our guests so prepare for spacial distortions!

alex1ger · February 2016

Thanks Dragon and sun... you are making me defend Cryptic. What the hell is wrong with you? (Disclaimer: Might not contain actual anger.

)

I'm getting ahead of myself... What am I talking about? The debate about the "science battlecruiser". Fasten your seatbelts, it's gonna get rough.
What is a "science battlecruiser"? Well, a "science leaning" battlecruiser. Emphasis on battlecruiser.
What is a battlecruiser? Well, a cruiser with a "heavy" tactical focus. (Like... usually the ability to equip dual cannons, being slightly more maneuverable than a comparable cruiser and losing access to... I think they only lose the +threat cruiser command...) Emphasis on cruiser.
What does that mean? You may not like the 4/4/3 layout (so a hypothetical baseline Bortasqu' would be sporting a 4/4/2 console layout), but it is completely in line with the battlecruiser moniker. Cryptic will not/cannot take away an engineering console. That's the backbone of a "cruiser".
So they could take away a tactical console which would make the hypothetical baseline version a 4/3/3. Which would be in line with a cruiser, but not a battlecruiser. This is a battlecruiser. It cannot/it will not ever be a science vessel.

Now, you could have made the argument that "strong science focus" may be... "mis-worded", but compared to the other Bortasqu' variants, it does have a science focus. Is it a "strong" focus? Well, we're getting nitpicky here, but that is an argument you could have made. Not this nonsense about a battlecruiser not being a science vessel...
I mean, is an engineering DSD a cruiser? I doubt it.
Is a tactical Command Battlecruiser an Escort? Most certainly not.

What else? Well, you are asking why there are science captains available for klingons when there are no science vessels (readily) available. Let me go back to launch... Klingon scientists, meet the BoP and/or the Vo'quv. Fed scientists, meet the... uhm... what were they called? I remember the Luna class, but not the name of that other thing... you know, the ugly one? I think the Luna was called... Reconnaisance science vessel and the other was the Deep Space science vessel? Either way, that was the setup. You could have decided to face this challenge like a true klingon, but no, you kept asking for... or rather demanding the implementation of a KDF science vessel.

*tries to conjure up a klingon snarl* What does a true klingon warrior want with a weak science vessel? There is no glory to be had in... science! *cough*

Guess what? You sacrificed your exclusive carriers (and seemingly even the raiders, but nobody really seems to care about that part) for the Gorn science vessel. And nobody bought it. (Well, dragon did, so kudos to him for at least trying to support his faction!) Meanwhile the Feds are the first faction to get a faction specific T6 (full) carrier. I didn't want federation carriers...

The T4 Gorn science vessel was part of a giveaway. The T5 Gorn science vessel was part of another giveaway. Do I need to repeat that?
And considering the flood of klingon science vessels after the release of the DSD... what? That didn't happen? Well, I guess klingons don't even buy somewhat science-y vessels... Now if you tried to explore the why... you would have an argument. But this whole "the burden of proof is on Cryptic"... no, it's not. The people (klingons) have spoken. Twice. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you.

Now, what does that mean? Well, Cryptic tried (twice...) to give klingons a science vessel and they did not turn (any? enough of a?) profit. You know what happens when you are on a somewhat tight budget and you invest money into stuff that just fails to turn a profit? People get fired to make the shareholders (or just the higher-ups...) happy. How many people do you want to get fired until you realize that klingon science vessels are obviously not as desperately needed as klingons on the forums claimed?

I do admit, I would like to see a T6 science vessel for klingons (and romulans for that matter...), but now that we got the T6 Krenim science vessel... I wouldn't hold my breath. So you better get farming...
And if hell did indeed freeze over and you (and the romulans) got a T6 science vessel... you should buy it immediately, because I doubt you will get more than one of those otherwise.
Btw. for some reason I feel like I mentioned 1/2 to 2/3 of this stuff before... responding to one of your rants about klingon science vessels...

But, there is something useful that came out of that discussion. You want parity, so I suggest something like a... uhm... let's take the T5 gorn science vessel, take away the console, give it a klingon skin, call it... klingon experimental science vessel and lock it behind a fleet wall. Like the Aquarius light escort and the (standard) Obelisk carrier for feds. I mean, the ships that are available if your fleet is level... whatever and for the Obelisk you need Fleet Spire level... something... and I don't know how many fleet credits/ship modules they cost, but make all the requirements similar to those ships. That way klingons would have access to a "free" T5 science vessel just like feds have access to a "free" T5 raider and a "free" T5 carrier.

Btw., have you mentioned that you need the console from the Krenim science vessel, if you want the 4-piece flagship console set bonus? (Similar to last year with the Samsar console and the Command Battlecruisers...)

Oh and on this whole "false advertising"... remember when Cryptic said season 11 would be about going back to being explorers and diplomats and rebuiding and hope? Look at what we got so far. But you went for the "science battlecruiser" instead. You need to step up your game when it comes to choosing your target.

And the community question... like I mentioned during the show, different folks, different strokes... I have seen people complaining about the new scimitar because it supposedly doesn't look "menacing" enough. So, there are people who don't like the new scimitar. I actually prefer the new look, because the "romulan" flagship should look like a romulan ship. I still don't like the scimitar (at all) because it is a silly ship that should never have existed in the first place, but... oh well... it is... "canon". *death glare at Cryptic*
The other ships... uhm... I had toons flying around in the event versions, but I never bought any of the C-Store versions and I'm not going to.

woodyvalley · February 2016

I couldn't agree more there Alex.

sunseahl · February 2016

Why is it that everyone picks the "canon" argument that "Klingons don't do Science." Cryptic has admitted itself that it wasn't going to hold to canon with this game and they've PROVEN that fact on more than one occasion...

Yet it keeps coming back to 3 arguments repeated ad nauseum like a sickening mantra...

Klingons don't "do" science, therefore
Klingons don't buy Science Ships, therefore
Klingons don't deserve science ships....

We've already talked about this being a new universe. I've said just how much i'm confused by this universe...
Are Klingons now more understanding of Science and Engineering? J'mpok seems to show it in his uncharacteristic speech AND the fact that the single "greatest" hero of the empire is now doing third caste "busywork." If that's the case, how in ANY sort of continuity can the old mantra still stand?

But enough... we've all made our arguments, exhaustively at this point...

Truth is that newer F2P players, like Dragon, will never have access to a Klingon Science vessel without working themselves to death to "grind one out" through the C-store, or, by participating specifically in non-faction, science-esque event grinds.

But your point brings up another... What should be the role of ship classes?

We really have to take the whole ship trinity to task...

Tactical should be about firepower.... just as it always has been, minus the greater speed.
Warriors have always been middle of the road characters... a mix of defense and offense

Engineering should be slow, tanky, support-ish, as it always has been.
Nothing built survives if it's not built to last. Engies should be your in-battle support for Tacticals

Science should be the speedy supporter.
Medics don't walk to a code blue(stopping of the heart)They RUN.
in this same manner Sci ships should be speedy, maneuverable...
Running in to drop heals and control a crowd then bail out before the aggro shifts.
This is why powers like Photonic Fleet and assets like flight decks should be more prominent on science vessels.

Science ships lack firepower but make up for it in division or consolidation. A well placed gravity well and a few fighters should be able to ruin any ship. A confused ship should be more susceptible to fighting off photonic shadows, never seeing the damage they do to themselves.

But the game as it stands now, can and will never be able to accommodate this. Not unless they make a new game in a better engine.

woodyvalley · February 2016

The history of Klingons and Science and Technology are based on stealing it from other races (ENT S2 Ep 25 "Bounty") and adapting it to be suitable for there own uses. Just like they did with Shakespeare's works and the cloaking device they obtain from the Romulans.

Just as much as STO portray the Klingons, they are a first a race of warriors, though some do show honour in other way than the batleth (I would like to see the Klingon restaurant on DS9), they are foremost a warrior race and it shows in their T6 flag ships.

I have been asking the question on what are people who are just as much have a main character as a KDF based character, as Dragon does, they are quite a few in my armada. They all have nothing but praise on the 3 KDF T6 flagships.

alex1ger · February 2016

Okay, a couple of clarifications seem to be needed...

I think there should be T6 science ships for the KDF (notice how I did not say anything about a "klingon" science vessel?) and the romulans. But considering the fact that we just got this Krenim science vessel... like I said, I wouldn't hold my breath.

I also think klingons should have gotten their faction-specific T6 carrier before the feds got theirs. Or at least make a faction bundle and give all of them their T6 carriers at the same time. (Would be the first true carrier for romulans, wouldn't it?) Or maybe as a throwback to the Obelisk you could have thrown in a faction-agnostic T6 "Temporal carrier"...

Furthermore, I think the federation Avenger (T5) and Arbiter (T6) Battlecruisers should have had a 4/4 weapons layout. And since Cryptic was unable to make a "broadsider mechanic" work, an Andorian Battlecruiser with a 5/3 layout would have been the logical choice...

And if we were sticking to canon (klingons don't do science), then where's the enormous K'Vort battlecruiser? Cryptic just keeps dropping the ball left and right...

But that's not the point, what I had an issue with was the fact that dragon and you, sunseahl, decided to yell at Cryptic because a battlecruiser was not a science vessel. In what timeline/universe does that argument make any sort of sense?
Yell at them because their story is not quite up-to-par.
Yell at them because they meander around between sticking to canon and then interpreting it rather loosely.

But this whole discussion about a battlecruiser not being a science vessel was rather pointless... Oh and yelling at them how much they hate klingons and how they... don't have the metrics to support their argument or they are misinterpreting their metrics or how their metrics have turned into self-fulfilling prophecies...
Klingons had 2 chances to buy... "science-y" vessels. They chose not to. Yelling at Cryptic for not trying is not the way to go, because Cryptic did in fact try...
Figuring out why it did not work, trying to make suggestions (like that "fleet-gated", "free" T5 klingon science vessel I suggested to you?) what could work... that would have merit. This whole "Cryptic hates klingons, so Cryptic needs to give us klingon (not gorn!!!1111) science vessels or we will yell at them how much they hate klingons!" on the other hand... well, that's rather pointless to me. But I said this exact same thing a couple of times before. *shrug* You accuse federation players of just yelling back at you. Maybe you could be the reasonable one and stop yelling and start talking? I mean, that's not the "klingon" way, but you could break the cycle of yelling? Maybe? Oh wait, I'm not yelling at you, I'm trying to talk. Sorry, my bad...

Klingons don't do science, d'oh!
Does it make sense? Nope. Is it canon? Yep.
Which means people who are even vaguely familiar with the franchise will expect exactly that. Wait... TOS klingons were different, weren't they? Don't you love canon sometimes?
Still, I'm gonna ask you... why did you believe you would see klingons in labcoats running experiments? Because I didn't. That's why I play a "feddie bear". I wanted to be more than just... "Klingon smash!" (Imagine "The Incredible Hulk" saying that...)
I mean, that's (vaguely) what I expected from "canon". Cryptic could have tried to surprise me (and other people), but they didn't. They pick and choose when they stick to canon and when they stray from it. And since they need to get CBS's approval for (almost?) everything... I would put at least part of the blame on CBS/the previous franchise owners...

Stuff Geko said:
So, you might have noticed this tweet by CaptainGeko about 2016 and what Cryptic might have in store and another tweet about some people getting stuff right and other people getting stuff wrong and how most people don't think big enough?
Tell me, if this is big enough:
I expected the announcement of expansion 3 (X3) at STLV 2015 (with a launch in 2016), so... now I expect both the announcement and the launch of X3 in 2016. I also expect a reasonably big (preferably cross-promotional) marketing push for both the 50th anniversary AND the X3 launch (maybe have the launch coincide with the anniversary?) and something to get all those new players going... like a... uhm... temporal recruitment (it was painful to say that...) event including a playable cardassian species or it's another early game expansion... Legacy of Cardassia?
Or you do this temporal recruitment thing before the new expansion hits to get people up to speed and the expansion is about endgame stuff. Like... oh boy... Delta Rising part 2 (might not have enough pull), Gamma Rising or Mirror Universe Rising (We invade the Mirror Universe because we can? It's not like the story needs to make any sense, right?). Wait, wait... TimeCop Star Trek Edition Rising! No? Back to the Future Rising! Still not it? Star Trek's Excellent Adventure?
So, what are your "big" expectations?

You know, I believe we are running out of time again, so... next week, I will go into a few story ideas that I would love to see implemented. You might like some of them... I think. I can assure you they are better than this... do I really need to call it a story? okay, fine... they are better than this so-called temporal cold war "story". (I have put the "" there on purpose.)
I promise, there will be stuff about klingons. Possibly even klingon scientists. Sacrilege, blasphemy, heresy... I know.

sisteric · February 2016

Klingons are not known for Science. Combat is their thing. It's the canon stereotype that is in the game too. Does that mean there are no Scientists? No, just less of them that get anywhere near the command chair. And because of that, there are not much resources used to develop science oriented ships because that is not what the majority of their field commanders are wanting in a ship. This makes them different from Feds and Roms in this respect. And explains why there are not very many Klingon designs that heavily use science in their design philosophy. Right or wrong, this is the canon stereotype.

In making a KDF Science officer I expected to run into the problem of not having very much in science support. But to me that was part of the challenge. Can I do an awesome science guy in the KDF? I have my guy doing well enough that I feel good about him, even proud.

Roms should really have a lot of science type ships, just because they have always been more 'spy games' than 'war games'. As such, here intel gathering should be better developed than the feds or the roms. I really hope that this will happen but so far that hasn't.

[PODCAST] Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 204: "I stand with Star Trek!"

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