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You really DON'T want to put 'Secondary Torpedo Launchers' on Holodeck like this.
thibash
Member Posts: 506 Arc User
Secondary Torpedo Launchers currently has quite a few issues, some of which can potentially break the servers. Here's a list:
The ability triggers on itself when using Torpedo Spread 3 (serious)
Once it starts firing torpedo's, it keeps firing torpedo's until the target goes down. This can potentially mean infinite torpedo's against things like invulnerable gates, with Kemocite proccing twice per torpedo. Also, since it triggers on impact, at short range this can lead to HUGE torpedo damage spikes.
The ability stays active permanently instead of 20 seconds (serious)
This means that any torpedo shot will get doubled (and any kemocite will trigger 4 times). This is neither fun nor very good for server lag.
Secondary Torpedo Launchers keeps firing even if your ship is destroyed (moderate)
Even after your ship is destroyed, it keeps firing torpedo's at your target until the target goes down.
The ability adds kemocite laced weaponry of its own on TS3 (moderate)
It's a nice gesture to give free kemocite to the torpedo captains that don't have it, but I doubt this is as intended.
The ability triggers on the Armitage point defense torpedo console (moderate)
While not gamebreaking, it is a combination that's far too powerful. Basically it'll mean that anything in a group targetted by both TS3 and the console will be destroyed in a single salvo unless it's a boss ship. It's just too many torpedo's Jim.
Kemocite double trigger (moderate)
Any lag-related issue gets increased twofold by the erronous kemocite double trigger. It could use a fix.
Firing that many torpedo's makes the game stale (low)
As a torpedo fan, I'm all for giving torpedo's some love. However, firing an overwhelming amount of torpedo's like that is overkill. At the moment, firing a TS3 destroys most PvE enemies in 1-2 salvo's, especially with the Armitage console on to of that. With an ability like this, there's simply no reason to try anymore. Point ship at target, fire 1 round of TS3 and all enemies will be defeated. It simply isn't the fix that torpedo's need.
Note: I have been trying to find a target to test the 'infinite torpedo theory' on, but nothing survied long enough to try. The ability is too strong in my opinion.
Suggested fix:
Make it affect the next High Yield or Torpedo Spread only. Anything else will just make it open for abuse.
The ability triggers on itself when using Torpedo Spread 3 (serious)
Once it starts firing torpedo's, it keeps firing torpedo's until the target goes down. This can potentially mean infinite torpedo's against things like invulnerable gates, with Kemocite proccing twice per torpedo. Also, since it triggers on impact, at short range this can lead to HUGE torpedo damage spikes.
The ability stays active permanently instead of 20 seconds (serious)
This means that any torpedo shot will get doubled (and any kemocite will trigger 4 times). This is neither fun nor very good for server lag.
Secondary Torpedo Launchers keeps firing even if your ship is destroyed (moderate)
Even after your ship is destroyed, it keeps firing torpedo's at your target until the target goes down.
The ability adds kemocite laced weaponry of its own on TS3 (moderate)
It's a nice gesture to give free kemocite to the torpedo captains that don't have it, but I doubt this is as intended.
The ability triggers on the Armitage point defense torpedo console (moderate)
While not gamebreaking, it is a combination that's far too powerful. Basically it'll mean that anything in a group targetted by both TS3 and the console will be destroyed in a single salvo unless it's a boss ship. It's just too many torpedo's Jim.
Kemocite double trigger (moderate)
Any lag-related issue gets increased twofold by the erronous kemocite double trigger. It could use a fix.
Firing that many torpedo's makes the game stale (low)
As a torpedo fan, I'm all for giving torpedo's some love. However, firing an overwhelming amount of torpedo's like that is overkill. At the moment, firing a TS3 destroys most PvE enemies in 1-2 salvo's, especially with the Armitage console on to of that. With an ability like this, there's simply no reason to try anymore. Point ship at target, fire 1 round of TS3 and all enemies will be defeated. It simply isn't the fix that torpedo's need.
Note: I have been trying to find a target to test the 'infinite torpedo theory' on, but nothing survied long enough to try. The ability is too strong in my opinion.
Suggested fix:
Make it affect the next High Yield or Torpedo Spread only. Anything else will just make it open for abuse.
Post edited by thibash on
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What's on Tribble is indeed busted.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
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My character Tsin'xing
It should definitely NOT trigger on itself.
They're red now.
Yes. But from this rep, I'm quite pleased with red. It'll be nice being able to slot a fairly normal looking photon for the set bonus on my Fed/KDF ships. (I'll miss the green torps for Romulan, though.)
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Lets take your example of a HY. Assume salvo HY3 (our "worst case" scenario), combined w/ the Trait: Torpedo Barrage + Concentrate Firepower 3 on the target, and perfect firing conditions for all procs.
Pilot activates Secondary Torpedo Launchers (STL) prior to firing. 20 second countdown begins.
Pilot fires a HY3 salvo at the target.
"X" sec travel time (based off of distance to the target)
4x torps via HY3 impact the target.
X:
Initial impact triggers Torpedo Barrage (TB)
Initial impact triggers Concentrate Firepower 3 (CF3)
Initial impact triggers Secondary Torpedo Launchers proc (STLp)
HY1 via TB in queue to fire (30 sec cd until next TB is available)
HY1 via CF3 in queue to fire (2 sec until next available proc can be granted)
4x basic torpedoes auto-fire from STLp
Pilot fires HY1 via CF3 proc immediately (2x torps)
Pilot fires HY1 via TB 1.5 sec later (2x torps)
"Y" sec travel time (based off of new distance to the target)
4x basic torps impact
"Y" + [pilot reaction time] HY1 via CF3 impact (2x torps)
"Y" + [pilot reaction time] + 1.5 sec HY1 via TB impact (2x torps)
Y:
Impact triggers Secondary Torpedo Launchers proc (STLp) (8x basic torps)
Impact triggers Concentrate Firepower 3 (CF3) (all impacts grant only 1 available charge)
HY1 via CF3 in queue to fire (2 sec until next available proc can be granted) *{Possibility that two CF procs may be granted here, depending on distance to target and pilot firing immediately upon receiving the proc}*
8x basic torpedoes auto-fire from STLp
Pilot fires HY1 via CF3 proc immediately (2x torps)
Depending on distance to target and time remaining on the STL buff, the following happens:
"Z" sec travel time (based off of new distance to the target)
8x basic torps impact
"Z" + [pilot reaction time] HY1 via CF3 impact (2x torps) *{4x torps if window of opportunity presents itself for a SECOND CF3 shot. Keep in mind that 1.5 sec refresh time may aid in preventing a SECOND CF3 shot here}*
Z:
Impact triggers Secondary Torpedo Launchers proc (STLp) (10x basic torps)*{12}*
Impact triggers Concentrate Firepower 3 (CF3) (window of opportunity to obtain 2 procs of CF, assuming pilot fires immediately)
[STL buff ends]
HY1 via CF3 in queue to fire (2 sec until next available proc can be granted) *{Possibility that two CF procs may be granted here, depending on distance to target and pilot firing immediately upon receiving the proc}*
10x *{12}* basic torpedoes auto-fire from STLp
Pilot fires HY1 via CF3 proc immediately (2x torps) *{4x torps if window of opportunity presents itself for a SECOND CF3 shot. Keep in mind that 1.5 sec refresh time may aid in preventing a SECOND CF3 shot here, but may have a better chance of occurring than the previous sequence.}*
"A" sec travel time (based off of new distance to the target)
10x *{12}* basic torps impact
"A" + [pilot reaction time] HY1 via CF3 impact (2x torps) *{4x torps if window of opportunity presents itself for a SECOND CF3 shot. Keep in mind that 1.5 sec refresh time may aid in preventing a SECOND CF3 shot here, but may have a better chance of occurring than the previous sequence.}*
In a TS (Torpedo Spread) scenario (assuming 4 torps per target for 5 targets), only the primary target will see the above chain of events, while the secondary targets will continue to see 4 torps for the buff duration - travel time.
Granted, a dedicated torpedo bomber can throw out more torps if well-timed. At a ~ 1.5min cd, I personally do not see this as a problem considering how much has been/continues to be invested in energy weapons platforms, AND considering that the vast majority of the targets are shielded. I can see this as "OP" in Normal and Advanced queues, but we're assuming a well-designed torpedo bomber with a good pilot and perfect firing conditions for all triggers.
Would be interesting to see something for mines and cannons at this caliber.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
The secondary torpedo's are fired as soon as the first wave hits correct? Now, assume your high yield is fired at say, 1km range or so. This means that the secondary lauchers will fire roughly a second later. If you remain within 1km, this means that a high yield 3 will be fired every second for the next 19 seconds.
Compare that to the Torpedo Barrage trait, which only fires one HY1. Granted, it has only 30 seconds cooldown. But that means that in comparison, Secondary Torpedo launchers should only fire 4 salvo's max. And even then, it'd be vastly superior because it will trigger on any torpedo, copy any torpedo ability perfectly and deliver its damage in a far shorter interval making it much more useful.
That's why it shouldn't trigger on itself. Because the torpedos will just keep coming. If it just triggers on all non-Secondary Torpedo shots, it'll be plenty powerful. You'd still get a HY3/TS3 copy instead of HY1/nothing. And you'd still get to combo it with command abilities to the point where you can copy multiple torpedo shots. Making it trigger on its own torpedo's on top of that is just too much.
I listed it in my example above, but I will quote @Borticus on this one:
"A HY is a HY is a HY."
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
10% uptime and torpedo buffs don't seems to affect it so... yeah.