I was merely applying your logic here. The Galor example is more appropriate here, though.
There are two known types of Bird of Prey configuration. The B'rel-type, which fights with its wings down, and the larger K'Vort-type, which fights with its wings up.
Given that the D12 looks and mostly acts like the B'rels we've seen, it is reasonable to assume that the D12 is nothing more than an antiquated B'rel variant, just like the Reliant would be seen as an antiquated Miranda variant by the 24th century.
The same argument is applicable to Chang's ship - if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck (I probably got the order wrong ), it's a duck. It looks like a B'rel, and it fights like an advanced B'rel, therefore it is likely built upon the B'rel spaceframe, just like the D12 and the Dominion War-era Birds of Prey.
so you are attempting to make something out which has no basis, the d12 is its own design and worf said so on generations during the fight with the d12. so your assumption is wrong which mean you are arguing for no reason. you have no basis to hold chang's ship on the same assumption.
Okay, here's one of many real life examples:
The Panzer IV has had over half a dozen different variants throughout its history, not including the more drastic modifications based on its chassis like the Wirbelwind or Jagdpanzer IV. For the most part, each new variant was a direct improvement over the previous one, but the basic design has remained the same. In fact, you can observe more obvious differentiation in the Panzer IV than you can in the B'rel-derived Birds of Prey - the main gun of the F1 and predecessors compared to the F2 and following versions is the first example that comes to mind.
A similar in-universe comparison can be made for the Miranda. It's a pretty safe bet that people wouldn't want to fly a TOS-era Miranda unless they had to, but they would be slightly more willing to use the modernized TNG-era or STO-era Mirandas. Neither one of them would be particularly useful in a major fight, but that's another matter.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I was merely applying your logic here. The Galor example is more appropriate here, though.
There are two known types of Bird of Prey configuration. The B'rel-type, which fights with its wings down, and the larger K'Vort-type, which fights with its wings up.
Given that the D12 looks and mostly acts like the B'rels we've seen, it is reasonable to assume that the D12 is nothing more than an antiquated B'rel variant, just like the Reliant would be seen as an antiquated Miranda variant by the 24th century.
The same argument is applicable to Chang's ship - if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck (I probably got the order wrong ), it's a duck. It looks like a B'rel, and it fights like an advanced B'rel, therefore it is likely built upon the B'rel spaceframe, just like the D12 and the Dominion War-era Birds of Prey.
so you are attempting to make something out which has no basis, the d12 is its own design and worf said so on generations during the fight with the d12. so your assumption is wrong which mean you are arguing for no reason. you have no basis to hold chang's ship on the same assumption.
Okay, here's one of many real life examples:
The Panzer IV has had over half a dozen different variants throughout its history, not including the more drastic modifications based on its chassis like the Wirbelwind or Jagdpanzer IV. For the most part, each new variant was a direct improvement over the previous one, but the basic design has remained the same. In fact, you can observe more obvious differentiation in the Panzer IV than you can in the B'rel-derived Birds of Prey - the main gun of the F1 and predecessors compared to the F2 and following versions is the first example that comes to mind.
A similar in-universe comparison can be made for the Miranda. It's a pretty safe bet that people wouldn't want to fly a TOS-era Miranda unless they had to, but they would be slightly more willing to use the modernized TNG-era or STO-era Mirandas. Neither one of them would be particularly useful in a major fight, but that's another matter.
if you want to explain it or debate it i would suggest a new thread an not hijack this one to do it, then i would be more inclined to debate it there. i have already explained straight up that chang's ship has never been confirmed as a b'rel and you have failed to provide a direct contradictary bit of evidence that it is, i.e; someone mentioning on trek in canon that it is a b'rel he was flying around in. i dont care about that in the quote above or anything up to that point because its getting further off point.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I feel like the standard "can only cloak out of combat" cloaks should all just be replaced with battle cloaks. In the shows/movies, every ship with a cloaking device has the ability to cloak while in combat unless the cloaking device has been damaged.
While I agree with this, I don't want it to happen because Romulans would loose some of their unique flavour. If something could be done to circumvent this and make Romulans unique again, then yes, I'd want Battle Cloak on all ships. Have in mind however, this would create a large disparity since KDF ships would be more powerful then the rest (there's very little Fed ships capable of cloaking so far), so they would have to balance the ships getting it somehow (I'd vote for cut to the ship hitpoints, but this might not be enough for some people). If done correctly, and in good taste and good balance, yes please.
good news friend, we already have said balance without the plus!!!
now if you'll excuse me I have decided to take up heavy drinking and must get to the abc store before the storm hits.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
In general this is a good QOL update for this ship. So if I decide to go with this bonus then here's what I would most likely have to contend with:
For a min/maxer its making a tough setup even harder to tweak, and I can only speak for myself here. Dropping another valuable console for the Quantum, dropping 2 DHCs for a Quantum Torpedo and the Quad Cannon which is phaser proc mind you so the AP consoles/weapons build I have suffers as well.
So I'm left with the option of switching my energy damage type entirely, which can be very costly, or keep it and lose a rather tasty percentage of damage bonus.
On the bright side, it changes up my build entirely and that's a challenge.
Yes the tier 6 ship. So you need the 4, 5, and 6 to have the full set.
Thanks. Guess I'll stick with the regular cloak then.
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A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Well just upgraded the Quad Cannons and quantum phase to epic and grabbed some more phaser DHC'S off the exchange... almost ready to take her out for a spin!
Comments
Okay, here's one of many real life examples:
The Panzer IV has had over half a dozen different variants throughout its history, not including the more drastic modifications based on its chassis like the Wirbelwind or Jagdpanzer IV. For the most part, each new variant was a direct improvement over the previous one, but the basic design has remained the same. In fact, you can observe more obvious differentiation in the Panzer IV than you can in the B'rel-derived Birds of Prey - the main gun of the F1 and predecessors compared to the F2 and following versions is the first example that comes to mind.
A similar in-universe comparison can be made for the Miranda. It's a pretty safe bet that people wouldn't want to fly a TOS-era Miranda unless they had to, but they would be slightly more willing to use the modernized TNG-era or STO-era Mirandas. Neither one of them would be particularly useful in a major fight, but that's another matter.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
if you want to explain it or debate it i would suggest a new thread an not hijack this one to do it, then i would be more inclined to debate it there. i have already explained straight up that chang's ship has never been confirmed as a b'rel and you have failed to provide a direct contradictary bit of evidence that it is, i.e; someone mentioning on trek in canon that it is a b'rel he was flying around in. i dont care about that in the quote above or anything up to that point because its getting further off point.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
good news friend, we already have said balance without the plus!!!
now if you'll excuse me I have decided to take up heavy drinking and must get to the abc store before the storm hits.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Well, I guess I know what I'll probably end up getting next ship sale...
For a min/maxer its making a tough setup even harder to tweak, and I can only speak for myself here. Dropping another valuable console for the Quantum, dropping 2 DHCs for a Quantum Torpedo and the Quad Cannon which is phaser proc mind you so the AP consoles/weapons build I have suffers as well.
So I'm left with the option of switching my energy damage type entirely, which can be very costly, or keep it and lose a rather tasty percentage of damage bonus.
On the bright side, it changes up my build entirely and that's a challenge.
Battlecloak might happen faster and give a defence boost while normal cloak takes longer to activate which would leave you vulnerable in combat.
Something like that would be better.
Thanks. Guess I'll stick with the regular cloak then.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'