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Vesta Triple Pack advice needed.

aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
In the recent sale I went for the Vesta triple pack. Idea was to use both quantum sets.

I didn't upgrade them yet to T5U, since I'm still undecied which one. I started with the eng version, but even this one is paper thin. The pets are even flimsier (I missed last years winter event, and this year for some reason one couldn't slot the ships from previous events anymore, so yeah :/ )

First idea was to combine the quantum sets with the aux cannons, but after I tried that I'm leaning more towards dropping them for this:

quantum phase beam + neutronic torp + quantum phase torp front
lobi tachyon mines + omni phaser beam + whatever aft

Even by using the lt cmdr universal for an eng boff (and effectively flying the Rademaker as light cruiser) the ship explodes a lot.

I've got this voice in my head telling me to switch from the Rademaker to the Vesta, and drop the lt cmdr eng for a sci boff, for even more space magic. But then again that wouldn't really help my already quite low survivability I guess.

One thread reducing console didn't help much.

Any ideas how to solve the issue ?








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Comments

  • freakiumfreakium Member Posts: 415 Arc User
    Well if your eng isn't working out, go ahead and try that sci boff. You're in a science ship so you might as well profit with an extra sci. If you're dying a lot, use hazard emitters or transfer shield strength with high aux power. That's bound to heal you up quickly. If you're still having problems, consider getting a resonating secondary deflector.
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  • hangukohanguko Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    Honestly, all T5 ships are outdated. They are all useless compared to their T6 counterparts. As for Vesta them self's, i would suggest dropping aux cannons, and go with beams and torp. Neuronic Torp, should do nicely... Switch to Pathfinder (Voyager T6) for end game space-magic.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    ^ This is a load of nonsense. There are plenty of T5ships that are more than adequate when upgraded to fleet level or in the Vesta upgraded to T5U. Don't let people tell you they are no good.
    Sure a Fleet Pathfinder is pretty dammed good but it's only got 1 more boff slot than the T5U vesta has so the difference is marginal.
    I've got the engineering version and it is a very fun ship. Set it up as a torp boat with partgen attacks to complement your kinetic damage.
    Or go with all aux cannons up front and be able forget about weapons power levels with everything stuck into aux.
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  • aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Well, it's a science ship so I run max aux power. My problem are the the low hull HP. And with all those shield drains and terran monster torp spreads the ship tends to explode quite a lot.

    I'll try two copies of hazard emitters, and see how far I can drop the CD. Once upgraded to T5U the ship gets a bit tougher anyway.

    Just need to decide which of the 3 suits me best, before I waste the upgrade token.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Well the eng version has an extra eng console so you can slot some extra armour, for example a fleet neutronium console with Res All or + Hull HP would help a bit.
    Also I don't know if you have access to spec trees yet (Lvl. 60) but the command tree boosts your hull HP's quite nicely the higher you go, so that could help.

    Remember you'll never get a hull to compete with cruisers or even most escorts, but you do have access to potentially massive shield HP's, so play to that strength. Get a covariant shield (high HPs right off the bat) and boost it to Mk XIV. With a good combination of shield boosts you can have shields of nearly 30K per facing, which unless you fight the borg (with their nasty tachyon beams) will make you almost un-killable. Add in Tac Team to that and you've got a potential of nearly 120K HP's on a single facing to fend off an attack.

    One other thing that a lot of players forget about survivability; don't get hit to start with. High speed = high defense = more enemy missed shots.
    Keeping your ship moving fast and having a high defense value will make you a lot harder to actually get hit which keeps you alive more.
    There are several traits that will synergize well with this sort of thing, Battle Ready - boosts defense when using eng bofff powers, Reciprocity - each time a shot misses you it reduces your boff cooldowns. So the two work well to keep you alive and let you do more damage!

    A selection of kit that will help you possibly (not all expensive stuff):

    Solanae Deflector: +40 Structural Integrity to boost hull HPs and also +40 partigens to boost those science attacks. (Free from Sphere of Influence episode)

    Bioneural Gel Pack: boost to shield HP's, plus as part of the Delta Operations set it will help you get the Isokinetic Cannon 3pc bonus which is a killer science weapon!

    Fleet mine consoles: specifically neutronium with +Hull HP, or RCS thrusters with the same? Relatively cheap now.

    Embassy Science consoles: Those with shield or hull healing boosters. Again quite cheap.

    Iconian rep space set: improves shields, hull plus adds kinetic resistance (against those Terran torp volleys)

    Sol Defense Set: free from the last Iconian War episode, boosts shield and hull healing.
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  • aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Yeah, currently running two neutronium plates.
    And this set:
    sto.gamepedia.com/Quantum_Phase_Applications

    And the solanae secondary deflector. Guess I'll get the Krenim console for 20% more shield HP and the delta console (since I'll fit the neutronic torp anyway).

    Atm I'm a bit undecided which warpcore to go for. Currently the solanae, but I guess Terran rep or Iconian or just a fleet AMP one would be better.

    Running around Benny Hill style won't be possible all the time, but that's one of the reasons I want to switch to beams. Orbitting a target helps a bit. Unfortunately the ship is not as nimble as I thought, so I'll need one console to improve manouverability a bit.

    Post edited by aurigas7 on
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  • rangerryurangerryu Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    aurigas7 wrote: »
    Yeah, currently running two neutronium plates.
    And this set:
    sto.gamepedia.com/Quantum_Phase_Applications

    And the solanae secondary deflector. Guess I'll get the Krenim console for 20% more shield HP and the delta console (since I'll fit the neutronic torp anyway).

    Atm I'm a bit undecided which warpcore to go for. Currently the solanae, but I guess Terran rep or Iconian or just a flet AMP one would be better.

    Running around Benny Hill style won't be possible all the time, but that's one of the reasons I want to switch to beams. Orbitting a target helps a bit. Unfortunately the ship is not as nimble as I thought, so I'll need one console to improve manouverability a bit.

    Problem with beams is you need to invest in weapon power as well but if you just went with aux cannons and torps in the back (or two torps plus your quantum phase weapon) then you can dump everything into aux.
  • aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    They just fill the slots. Main armament will be the Neutronium and Quantum phase torp. Now that I think about it, I could just use the Krenim disco beam as second beam weapon. They are just there for the procc and subsystem targetting anyway.
    Post edited by aurigas7 on
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  • rangerryurangerryu Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    Are you doing anything with the vesta's consoles by the way you know a giant phaser beam coming out the deflector may help! But seriously there's some good abilities I've read for the Vesta ships like the 3 piece gives you a really good shield ability (granted you can't fire) but should help you heal up.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    If you really want to have fun I highly recommend getting the gravimetric torp and possibly the particle emission plasma torp. Both work really well with a grav well, which you can slot on that commander science seat.
    It's a pretty standard build these days but a combo of high particle gens and a variety of torpedoes works quite well and can bet you some quite respectable damage output.
    There are a tonne of ways to boost particle gens available and a tonne of deadly attacks that use that skill heavily. The particle emission torp, isokinetic cannon, destabilised resonance beam, quantum destabilising beam, the Vesta deflector beam console; all of those can be slotted on your ship, and fired at the same time and with max aux power will be quite deadly!

    The beauty of going with torps or the aux cannons is you can focus all your power into aux so you can max it out. That has lots of benefits for you; all your science powers work at full strength, no need to worry about sharing energy with weapons systems, high aux level helps in many other ways as well. It helps with torp damage. It also goes well with the nukara T4 rep traits which increas your hull and damage depending on your aux power setting. At 130 aux power that's a fairly significant boost to each.
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  • rangerryurangerryu Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    If you really want to have fun I highly recommend getting the gravimetric torp and possibly the particle emission plasma torp. Both work really well with a grav well, which you can slot on that commander science seat.
    It's a pretty standard build these days but a combo of high particle gens and a variety of torpedoes works quite well and can bet you some quite respectable damage output.
    There are a tonne of ways to boost particle gens available and a tonne of deadly attacks that use that skill heavily. The particle emission torp, isokinetic cannon, destabilised resonance beam, quantum destabilising beam, the Vesta deflector beam console; all of those can be slotted on your ship, and fired at the same time and with max aux power will be quite deadly!

    The beauty of going with torps or the aux cannons is you can focus all your power into aux so you can max it out. That has lots of benefits for you; all your science powers work at full strength, no need to worry about sharing energy with weapons systems, high aux level helps in many other ways as well. It helps with torp damage. It also goes well with the nukara T4 rep traits which increas your hull and damage depending on your aux power setting. At 130 aux power that's a fairly significant boost to each.

    yeah I can imagine that Grav well,Torp spread and Cannon Scatter Volley would be quite deadly.

  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,389 Arc User
    Quickie thoughts:

    1. Slot trait that gives temp HP when using a shield heal.
    2. Solanae set or at least Kobali warp core (if you have) - both have extra aux boosts.
    3. Go with the Vesta-Vesta. 5x Sci consoles to make your space magic painful.
    4. Get the upgrade token. She's fleet grade to begin with, so the token makes her T5U11.
    5. Aux cannons are OK, but remember the range issues, etc. Also consider the pain to upgrade them to Mk XIV at least, don't expect epiccing...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    What kind of content do you usually play? Advanced or Elite STFs? Advanced or Elite Difficulty Missions?

    Normally, I found surviving with the Vesta easy. Sure, you want to have some hull heals, and you probably should also harden your shields with Emergency Power to Shields (damage control officers for lowering the cooldown, so you can still slot something like Aux2SIF, Engineering Team or Emergency Power to Auxilliary).

    Of course, I also usually have some form of set items t hat might add extra hull heals. Even old sets like the Assimilated set can offer a lot here.

    I do not recommend the Aux Cannons. I think a torpedo based build is still one of the best science options, and the Aux cannons will never hit has hard as a real dual heavy cannon using ship with 4/3, 5/2 or 4/4 weapon loadout.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Yep, ship is meant for STF's, idea was to take advantage of the combined flow cap bonus from both sets, and combine that with another hard hitting torp (neutronic torpedo) and some mines. Both torps benefit from quantum damage consoles.

    Basically drop a grav well, hit the biggest baddest target with a tachyon beam and then nuke the cluster with the torps. That was the theory, but so far it didn't survive the contact with reality.

    On my Klingon I threw both qantum sets and some bio phaser cannons on a Kor. All of it unapgraded Mk XII. And even with bloody blue mk XI standard damage consoles it vapes tac cubes. That's the first time I actually like the colour of bio phasers. I can pretend they are disruptors. :*

    The Vesta does some nice shield stripping, but then jack TRIBBLE happens. Ah well, I guess I need to drop 2 mil dil on the bloody setup + a shitload of lobi to make it work.

    Rule 62 console and tachyon mines are on the shopping list.

    I don't have the Kobali warpcore, but I wouldn't use it anyway. I just acquired the Krenim warpcore, which allows for 130 Aux power and has aux->shields. Does anone know if this one gets AMP once upgraded ?

    As alternatives I'll probably test the Iconian and Terran warpcores.

    The pilot is a science char with maxed out grav generators, flow caps and particle generators.

    Instead of rotating ep2shields I tried 2 copies of transfer shield strength. Did kinda work. I'll try again once I've got the terran rep CD reduction for torp and sci skills.

    Would hate to waste 3 doffs for just one boff ability (ep2shields)

    Atm the char is back in his lovely fleet Nova, spreading the love with transphasic torps. :D

    Ah yes, and I'm using the beam attack and the feedback-pulse-whatever-bubble console from the Vestas.

    Currently I'm leaning towards the science version, because of the 5 sci consoles.

    Post edited by aurigas7 on
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Ep2s is worth having at least one copy of because aside from the small shield heal it also boosts shield hardness so incoming damage does you less harm to your shields.
    TSS is good for repairing shields and keeping regent going when under sustained attack but it lacks that hardness/resistance boost that make the former so useful.
    The cool down isn't too big even without doffs so I always slot one copy in an ensign slot as standard practice.

    I find with one copy each of Ep2S, Ep2SIF and then one each of Science Team & TSS I can survive most fights. Obviously getting mobbed by a swarm of spheres in ISA can be tough as they strip your shields in seconds with tachyon beam spam but most other mobs should be quite easy to go up against.

    One thing to bare I mind that I've not seen mentioned yet though, a lot of the "big damage" science powers generate a metric tonne of aggro so even dropping a single grav well will TRIBBLE off the whole map so that will affect how much you get shot at which in turn affects your survival rate if you're not ready for it.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    aurigas7 wrote: »
    Would hate to waste 3 doffs for just one boff ability (ep2shields)
    Well, what other DOFFs are you slotting and are they actually helping as much? And you don't neccessarilly need 3 DOFFs.
    I think I mostly use an aftershock DOFF and some other science-related cooldown reduction DOFF. The Aftershock can only be used once anyway. I think the Deflector DOFFs or whatever that lower the deflector related science power cooldowns can be slotted multiple times.

    Transfer Shield Strength has a poor uptime compared to EPtS. If you can do it with 2 TSS and no cooldown reductions for those, you can probably manage with an EptS and a TSS, too, without big extra DOFF support. But if you can't - you obviously need to invest more in your healing and hardening abilities. Dropped shields are bad for anyone, but Science Vessels and the Vesta certainly handle it worst. EptS is definitely the best skill for shield hardening. Science Team and TSS are both good for the shield healing, Science Team has the nice science debuff cleanse that you need against some foes (but not all.) Science Team is great to recover after you've been shield drained by Tachyon Beams, which will invariably happen in Borg STFs.

    I tend to slot more for hull heals on the science side. Hazard Emitters seems better suited to deal with bleedthrough and plasma burns then the engineering hull heals, since it's a Heal over Time. You don't neccessarily need a big influx of heal, just something that is going on for a while. And getting rid of plasma burns is of course very useful there, too.



    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,723 Arc User
    hanguko wrote: »
    Honestly, all T5 ships are outdated. They are all useless compared to their T6 counterparts. As for Vesta them self's, i would suggest dropping aux cannons, and go with beams and torp. Neuronic Torp, should do nicely... Switch to Pathfinder (Voyager T6) for end game space-magic.

    Wow...even after all of this time there are still people spouting this nonsense...lol

    If you're going to go heavy Sci than I'd probably upgrade the Vesta, I own all 3 and I ended up upgrading the Vesta myself.

    Once you upgrade one and get the traits going that will help you with surviving, a ton, 3 out of 4 of the traits add defense and the other helps exotic damage.
  • pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    Of my many toons and ships (including many t6) my Tac Vesta (reconnaissance Aventine) is my favorite. the only ship I have that is more sturdy is the Galor, but the Aventine hits a lot harder. The idea that T5-U = garbage compared to T6 is wrong. You still have 11 console slots, and enhanced hull/shield modifiers in a T5-U. You miss an extra lieutenant boff power, and access to gimmick powers.

    I do like the Quantum weapon set, but the Quantum Phase Application set is rubbish if you are looking for survivability.

    The Borg space set has enough hull and shield regen to supplement 2xensign and 2x lieutenant science boff powers dedicated to defense, the Iconian set is favorable these days, but I feel the borg set is better in a high aux build.

    I use an unconventional boff setup, including 2x EPtE and 2X Energy Siphon to maintain 4x125 power levels after balancing base power levels to 100 weapon, minimum engine (because EPtE) and the rest divided between shield and aux. 2 Deflector Doff to reduce cooldown on Grav Well, (synergy with the 2x Siphons = GW3 every 30 seconds) a doff to create aftershock grav wells, a Conn Doff to reduce cd on Evasive maneuvers after every EPtE, and 2 Conn doffs to provide a flat Evasive Maneuvers cd reduction. These doffs ensure evasive has a generous uptime, which is great damage mitigation.


    This setup ensures I can deal good damage, attract and hold agro and survive.

  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    With a free T6 science ship coming everyone with a T5 can check the difference for themselves, I'm confident they won't find their lovely Vetas to be rubbish.

    How not to blow up basics:

    1. Move about more, with mk14 engines, numerous turn rate boosts and things that boost the defense rating, simply moving about more has become an option of bigger vessels, cruisers can now fly at full throttle and keep their weapons on target, if they can a sci ship can. Combine with mobility related starship traits - pedal to metal( free from pilot spec), reciprocity from 3k zen ship Phantom, Sub Warp Sheath( 3k zen sci pilot ship). Park n shoot is not a good idea with a small hull and 3 front weapons - duh.

    2. Sci ships can now have insanely high shields, with upgrades to mk14 shields plus consoles that each add 20% to shield cap, so shield tanking is an option.

    3. Extra damage resistance, including mods on particle field exciter and conductive rcs consoles. Can't afford a console with resall, then get a platet or kin mod for your STF needs. A2D with doff, old fashioned but I like it and many more powers. Also note the various emergency repair, resist and escape options in devices, traits and starship traits. A not very popular but IMO very useful starship trait is Tactical Retreat, for feds this is available on the exchange in a lockbox; its from the Rom intel ship, people with a collection of traits and top gear won't use it, however it works well for fragile ships that are yet to have a fortune thrown at them. Pilot spec has power giving bonus temp hull after an attack pattern, a mobile ship with this spamming has a tone of extra hull over a minute's combat. There are a lot of temporary and minor tanking boosts in the rep system, with doff for boff powers and consoles and space sets, you need to balance these with getting your offense to work well, for example dyson set is pretty tanky, has part gens and is free.

    4. More power, as noted above with power at 100+ across the board your ship seems magically better, to leech or not to leech is a budgetary and for some a moral issue. Also the starship traits from nandi and breen dreadnaught. Honnestly a comprehensive guide to getting more power would be huge.

    5 Blow stuff up, rubble doesn't fire back. So optimise your best attacks, trying to balance beams, torps, grav, part gen, flow caps and decompiler will result in not doing anything well. I'd look at optimising my grav well and then one form of attack, torps seem to be the dominant option amongst dps sci pilots. A mega grav well followed by a massively boosted TS will do more damage than a weak GW and pew pewing.

    A useful extra here is the secondary deflector, upgraded you get additional boosts to key skills, purple mk2 are cheap to buy and upgrade, the current omega event can, after crafting, provide the ideal upgrade kits, just add an accelerator and welcome to world of crafting for epics. The other big epic upgrade is deflector that get 10% cooldown on sci powers at Ultra Rare quality, this is a very pricey thing but in the long run something the dedicated sci capt will want.

    5 Various clickies: engineering crafted armour, the three rep system active powers, sci fleet, photonic fleet, fleet support and scattering field, give you 8 genuinely useful survival clickies, its very easy to leave these for extreme emergencies and not hit them in time.
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Tempted to pull my Vesta out of mothballs to see what she can do these days. As most know, I favour my FT5-U Nova class over all else, although have to admit have found myself using my FT6 Intrepid a lot more lately, as a combo of the Obilesk Warp core and OSSI means that I can have Aux power running at 155 for a short time.

    one of my alts still uses the vesta and i doubt she will ever be replaced, top of the line ship she still is.
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    "It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,364 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    hanguko wrote: »
    Honestly, all T5 ships are outdated. They are all useless compared to their T6 counterparts. As for Vesta them self's, i would suggest dropping aux cannons, and go with beams and torp. Neuronic Torp, should do nicely... Switch to Pathfinder (Voyager T6) for end game space-magic.

    So much wrong in this there may not be room to point all of it out. T5 ships are not "outdated". Nor are they "useless". Only someone with very little time in game or an even more limited skill set would make such a statement. The only piece of mandatory gear for any ship in the game is a competent and skilled player. I have no problems being successful in either PvE or PvP with my "outdated" and "useless" T5 ships. T6 ships are good no doubt. But someone who flies a Miranda badly will fly a Valiant just as badly. But it's your money, so you get to spend it how you want to. I suppose if you spend enough of it maybe someday you'll be 1337 'Leet, Leeroy.

    OP, My Fed flies the Science Vesta. For maximum Space Magic goodness. I run mostly Polaron weapons as well, because my Vesta is set up as a drain boat. I really enjoy bringing some know-it-all in a brand new T6 or a Lobi store ship who does not know what he is doing to a halt with zero power. Right before my buddies pop him like a soap bubble. Who's next?



    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 385 Arc User
    Why would you buy a T5 science ship when you could get a T6 one (Pathfinder, Dauntless, Scryer)?
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Well they are cheaper for starters, plus any of the vesta variants is easily able to compete with the T6 ships. When upgraded they only lack a single boff ability anyway so not a major drawback there.
    Plus people like the look of the vesta, and they are still extremely effective ships what with their consoles and the aux cannons and also the hanger.
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  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Vesta is still one of the best T5 ships on the market. I fly it and have absolutely no regrets in purchasing the three-pack way back when or sinking two upgrade tokens onto it. I can't say the same about a lot of ship purchases. The only thing that would make me give up the T5u Vesta is if they announce a T6 Vesta.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    rangerryu wrote: »
    Are you doing anything with the vesta's consoles by the way you know a giant phaser beam coming out the deflector may help! But seriously there's some good abilities I've read for the Vesta ships like the 3 piece gives you a really good shield ability (granted you can't fire) but should help you heal up.

    I kinda want to go back to my Vesta for a bit so I can equip the Quantum Phase set so I have two Giant Phaser Beam weapons.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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