Quantum Phase Converter: +20% Phaser Damage?

feordilagorge · December 2015

I was excited about doing Sunrise and getting this console because that's a good boost to damage. However, it seems to only boost damage on my phasers +4.5%. Without console, beam arrays are 1016.8 damage, with console 1062.1, about +4.5%. Shouldn't they be boosted to 1220?

markhawkman · December 2015

This is what's called a base damage boost. IE it gets added together with the various other stats that boost your base damage.

feordilagorge · December 2015

That can't be correct. If this is somehow supposed to be +20% added to the base damage and doesn't get added to the final damage (consoles, traits, etc.), then this would mean the weapons have a base damage of only about 220, because the bonus added is only about 44.

{Edit}

Okay, I dismounted the weapon and docked on ESD and the weapon does show 221.7 damage from my inventory but isn't this known to be incorrect in the game?

I would really like to know how these are calculated because they are very misleading. I checked a +30% Boost console and it yields less than 8% actual boost. It doesn't even add 30% of the very lowest stat you can achieve (like on ESD) to the damage. 30% added from 221.7 is 66.51. The total amount added to damage when in space with one boost console is only 33 points.

markhawkman · December 2015

Captain skills get added to this. Also... "base" is apparently the base damage for that weapon type or something, and not the actual damage the weapon does without skills. It's complicated and confusing. But it is math and not random idiocy.

tunebreaker · December 2015

https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/math/damage_math

That link should help you.

feordilagorge · January 2016

tunebreaker wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/math/damage_math

That link should help you.

Thanks for the link, but regardless of what the formula is, there should never be a case where the TOTAL amount of a stated boost stat is not AT LEAST that percentage above the most very BASIC spec. If a weapon, at its most basic, is 200 damage, then a +20% boost should result in AT LEAST 40 additional points to the final outcome.

That's my point.

I would like to see all gear have stats, regardless of where you are, that list's ALL the stats, like:

"SOME WEAPON Mk XIV"

Damages:
--(Base) 200
--(With Traits) 300
--(With Consoles) 1200
--(With Other) 1225

Figures are for examples only. I don't see why gear cannot show real stats based on what is currently on a ship.

Thanks, everyone. Happy New Year!

jarvisandalfred · January 2016

feordilagorge wrote: »

tunebreaker wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/math/damage_math

That link should help you.

Thanks for the link, but regardless of what the formula is, there should never be a case where the TOTAL amount of a stated boost stat is not AT LEAST that percentage above the most very BASIC spec. If a weapon, at its most basic, is 200 damage, then a +20% boost should result in AT LEAST 40 additional points to the final outcome.

That's my point.

I would like to see all gear have stats, regardless of where you are, that list's ALL the stats, like:

"SOME WEAPON Mk XIV"

Damages:
--(Base) 200
--(With Traits) 300
--(With Consoles) 1200
--(With Other) 1225

Figures are for examples only. I don't see why gear cannot show real stats based on what is currently on a ship.

Thanks, everyone. Happy New Year!

The 20% buff is a 20% buff that will increase your damage by 20% if you have no other buffs that stack with it. The damage of a MK 0 (Standard Requisition) beam array is 100 damage; if you put one of those on your ship (and don't have skill points - also in that category - or a few other things), you will see the damage increase by 20%. Weapon mark is applied in the same 'category' as tactical consoles, this console, and many more things, so it often doesn't look right.

angrytarg · January 2016

This is why I asked for game documentation a while back. Item tooltips show you a number like 20% but you have absolutely no squealin' idea how damage gets calculated, it is in no way intuitive or easily understandable. Then again, the majority of players seem to be perfectly fine with Cryptic not explaining anything as long as some other players invest their spare time and figure it all out. The system works.

warmaker001b · January 2016

What's the bigger damage increase? The one that says it increases by +20% or the one that says only 10%?

And going by ingame information, how can you tell?

markhawkman · January 2016

yeah, it's kinda hard to tell which layer bonuses go in based on the tooltips.

But a 10% boost that isn't a base damage boost is probably going to be larger than a 20% base damage boost.

dracounguis · January 2016

Cryptic does seem to base their explanations on 'inside info' from a programmer's POV not a player's POV. Sadly, they also don't seem to care that the normal person gets mislead by their explanations.

Now, I can understand that it'd be 'hard'

to have the tooltip take into account of every variation of damage boosting thingamajig, but really, they should make some effort IN GAME to explain how things work; not depend on some 3rd party to break down the math on some fan website.

senseikrieger · January 2016

Remember the base damage of a weapon does not include the modifiers of that weapon. so say you have a DMG modifier that gives 10% damage to your weapon and will show up as the base value on earth space dock. so the value on ESD is not that actual value that is getting boosted. I have seen matrix of base damage and how much each modifier adds to the base but for the life of me I cannot remember where I saw that. I hope this helps a little.

feordilagorge · January 2016

Thanks, everyone.

My point was, even if it is "based" on "base" damage, if the base damage is 200, then the resulting improvement of +20% should be +40 damage, not +23 or something. It doesn't even seem to be adding to base.

markhawkman · January 2016

Base damage is actually the damage of a Mk0 weapon or something. Mk is actually a stat modifier to the true base.

angrytarg · January 2016

markhawkman wrote: »

Base damage is actually the damage of a Mk0 weapon or something. Mk is actually a stat modifier to the true base.

"Standard issue" is base damage. I think the weapons your starter ship comes with are the indicator of what base damage is, everything else is already modified in some way.

ajalen · January 2016

and dont forget power levels , at ESD / sector space u see base value , without boost from stuff

angrytarg · January 2016

ajalen wrote: »

and dont forget power levels , at ESD / sector space u see base value , without boost from stuff

True. So to determine what base damage is you need a "standard issue" weapon that comes with a T1 ship at 50 power without traits, skills, specs etc. - on a leveled character you cannot do that, except if you have a respec token and reset your skills, then disable your specs (only works if you have two without points invested to make them primary and secondary) and drop everything.

lordsteve1 · January 2016

This why the documentation needs a serious overhaul, or rather there actually needs to be some meaningful documentation to start with.
I'm completely with angrytarg in that something needs doing about it, even if it's just a basic level of explaining what base damage, bonus damage etc means. You don't need anything too detailed giving away the code secrets or anything but there is no way a newbie player has clue what anything mean without google searches or plastering the forums with questions.

markhawkman · January 2016

Yeah, this would be a good thing to write wiki articles about.

Unknown · January 2016

This content has been removed.

mustrumridcully0 · January 2016

Yes, Mark XII and Mark XIV get deliberately a bigger bonus than they would normally get. Which makes upgrading to Mark XIV pretty useful.

Whether it should be documented... i don't know. In the end, you can alwasy test your build and see what works better. Aside from the problem that on ground, you don't get to see your actual space stats,you can always see the effect the gear you equip have on your ship.

Sure, you can't make a handy spreadsheet to precalculate your damage, but the truth is that there are so many factors going into your damage output that it would probably still be misleading.

I don't think that any game actually posts all the detailed information on its math, at least not in a public and prominent way. It's almost always players that basically reverse engineer things by lots of experimentation, and carefully listening to developers dropping little details about the mechanics.

I think there is also a good number of players that really enjoy figuring this stuff out. And also a good number of players that will never care. So a thorough effort by Cryptic to explain all the math would be irrelevant for some, and ruin the fun of some others. Would it really be worth the effort?

angrytarg · January 2016

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

(...)Would it really be worth the effort?

That's not my place to wonder about and I really don'T care wether Cryptic has "effort" or not - it's their game and it is a fact that their tooltips are useless since they state numbers that don't actually add up but flow into "hidden" calculations the normal player has no way of knowing. That's not how you should do this stuff in my opinion.

People in this forum are so quick to shoot down suggestion and ideas because the devs would have "effort" to implement it, people start suggestions with "this is how you monetize it, devs!" - that's non of the players' business. If Cryptic can make it work they will make it work, if not their not. Nobody has to rush to Cryptic's aid here.

Quantum Phase Converter: +20% Phaser Damage?

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