Shuttle's, How to improve them and shuttles people want.

captainbmoney · December 2015

I like shuttle missions. I like them so much on my main character that this is named after I own the Tholian Widow, Voth Heavy Fighter and Vaadwaur Pythus. I try to be on pretty much every weekend that the Shuttle Weekends are and I collect as much marks as possible when they happen. I wish there were more shuttle missions because ever since we had our shuttles equipped automatically I've loved using them more and more.

I wish there was a way to use shuttles for some basic missions like startup missions.

Also I'd love for their to be a Janeway/Type 9 Shuttle Hybrid for captains to use. possibly with Innate armor ability. Also to have them as pets for carriers/flightdeck
for KDF and Rom I'd just love to see more shuttles in general. there is so much potential.

azniadeet · December 2015

I would like to see more things like the shuttle race that's in one of the delta patrols... adding totally new shuttle-centric game elements will draw attention to them and make them more intriguing. I'd love to be able to do a PvP shuttle race at some point, and by adding limited combat mechanics to a race, it could be Mario Kart esq...

rattler2 · December 2015

Where's me StarFox music?

artan42 · December 2015

What confused me is why we're using the Type 8 and not the Types 9 (VOY), 10 (DS9), or 11 (Insurrection)? Would't you go for the most modern options in 2409.

angrytarg · December 2015

artan42 wrote: »

What confused me is why we're using the Type 8 and not the Types 9 (VOY), 10 (DS9), or 11 (Insurrection)? Would't you go for the most modern options in 2409.

I'd suspect different shuttle types have different mission profiles. A large capital ship most likely has a number of 8's, 9's and 10's on board and cycles through them for whatever mission comes up. The TNG manual outlines a few mission profiles for different types of shuttlecraft, so a Type 8 isn't really outdated but maybe more limited (but still viable) while a Type 10 may be better at doing X but lacks Y and so on.

OP: I'd like shuttles to be their own mini-game. Shuttle equipment in different rarities and sets and even unique items, shuttle skills and no regular gear on shuttles. If at one point we get Exploration clusters/missions back I'd like to have shuttle missions embedded in those - sometimes it's just not feasible using your star ship to do stuff.

artan42 · December 2015

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

What confused me is why we're using the Type 8 and not the Types 9 (VOY), 10 (DS9), or 11 (Insurrection)? Would't you go for the most modern options in 2409.

I'd suspect different shuttle types have different mission profiles. A large capital ship most likely has a number of 8's, 9's and 10's on board and cycles through them for whatever mission comes up. The TNG manual outlines a few mission profiles for different types of shuttlecraft, so a Type 8 isn't really outdated but maybe more limited (but still viable) while a Type 10 may be better at doing X but lacks Y and so on.

Agreed for the 9, 10, and 11's, but the 8 was superseded by the 9 in all its roles.
But it's similar with runabouts, we have three modern ones, the Venture (from Insurrection), the Argo (from Nemesis) and the Delta (from VOY) so what do we get ingame? The Danube from TNG/DS9 (true we get the Delta as well, but as a C-Store purchase).

angrytarg · December 2015

artan42 wrote: »

Agreed for the 9, 10, and 11's, but the 8 was superseded by the 9 in all its roles.
But it's similar with runabouts, we have three modern ones, the Venture (from Insurrection), the Argo (from Nemesis) and the Delta (from VOY) so what do we get ingame? The Danube from TNG/DS9 (true we get the Delta as well, but as a C-Store purchase).

The Delta is not a Runabout, though. The Venture and Argo (as much as I hate this nonsensical thing) I'd accept, but are you sure you don't confuse the Yellowstone with the Delta? The latter is just a shuttle, a Runabout is larger and even has limited combat potential whereas the Delta is Tom Paris' hot rod. There's really nothing that thing can do better than any of the others

yakodym · December 2015

Intel/Command/Pilot small craft ftw (also some 1 fore 1 aft variations)

mustrumridcully0 · December 2015

Give them access to Pilot BO abilities and Pilot ship abilties.

But then, the real challenge is giving them a purpose in game. Regular, repeatable uses for shuttles, ideally not just with special shuttle queues.

artan42 · December 2015

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

Agreed for the 9, 10, and 11's, but the 8 was superseded by the 9 in all its roles.
But it's similar with runabouts, we have three modern ones, the Venture (from Insurrection), the Argo (from Nemesis) and the Delta (from VOY) so what do we get ingame? The Danube from TNG/DS9 (true we get the Delta as well, but as a C-Store purchase).

The Delta is not a Runabout, though. The Venture and Argo (as much as I hate this nonsensical thing) I'd accept, but are you sure you don't confuse the Yellowstone with the Delta? The latter is just a shuttle, a Runabout is larger and even has limited combat potential whereas the Delta is Tom Paris' hot rod. There's really nothing that thing can do better than any of the others

The Delta Flyer is the same size as the Argo and is designed as an independent Starship as a runabout. It's been shown as more combat capable than the contemporary Type 8 and 9 shuttles and fills pretty much the role of the Runabouts from DS9. It's also far more adapted than a shuttle even displaying aquatic capabilities. The Delta Flyer often was sent on side quests that would leave it away from the mothership for far longer than a shuttle would be able to cope.

The only real definition of a Runabout is that it's larger than a shuttle and can function as a independent craft, the Delta Flyer fulfils this definition.

kylethetrue · December 2015

I also very much enjoy Shuttlecraft missions. Wish I had more occasions to use them.

angrytarg · December 2015

artan42 wrote: »

The Delta Flyer is the same size as the Argo and is designed as an independent Starship as a runabout. It's been shown as more combat capable than the contemporary Type 8 and 9 shuttles and fills pretty much the role of the Runabouts from DS9. It's also far more adapted than a shuttle even displaying aquatic capabilities. The Delta Flyer often was sent on side quests that would leave it away from the mothership for far longer than a shuttle would be able to cope.

The only real definition of a Runabout is that it's larger than a shuttle and can function as a independent craft, the Delta Flyer fulfils this definition.

The Delta's size is a difficult topic as my research turns out that the size wasn't consistent on-screen. Sternbach said it is supposed to be 21m long ang 12,2m wide. But with these measurements it wouldn't have fit through Voyager's shuttle doors (it would have fit going with "fact files", but not going with was actually displayed on screen, take a look here http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/delta-size.htm ).

Ex-Astris concludes that the actual scenes shot in Voyager's shuttle bay have to be dismissed and we should assume the Delta is 20-ish meters long and 12-ish meters wide. I personally disagree with that as what we actually saw should count. So I personally just assume the Delta is close to 20-12, more like 18-19 long and 9-11 wide and as such is a advanced shuttlecraft but smaller than the Venture and Argo (20-21 meters long) and definitely smaller than a Danube (23m long).

Reflecting this, on my STO characters Delta shuttles do not have a U.S.S. prefix and are auxilliary vessels to their mothership (same registry with a suffix). Runabouts however are in my headcanon independent craft, get a U.S.S. and their own registry - that's at least what I do.

I agree with the independent operation. It's a long-range shuttlecraft in my book. I don't know how STO sees it, are Delta hangar pets 3 or 2 per hangar?

lianthelia · December 2015

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

The Delta Flyer is the same size as the Argo and is designed as an independent Starship as a runabout. It's been shown as more combat capable than the contemporary Type 8 and 9 shuttles and fills pretty much the role of the Runabouts from DS9. It's also far more adapted than a shuttle even displaying aquatic capabilities. The Delta Flyer often was sent on side quests that would leave it away from the mothership for far longer than a shuttle would be able to cope.

The only real definition of a Runabout is that it's larger than a shuttle and can function as a independent craft, the Delta Flyer fulfils this definition.

The Delta's size is a difficult topic as my research turns out that the size wasn't consistent on-screen. Sternbach said it is supposed to be 21m long ang 12,2m wide. But with these measurements it wouldn't have fit through Voyager's shuttle doors (it would have fit going with "fact files", but not going with was actually displayed on screen, take a look here http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/delta-size.htm ).

Ex-Astris concludes that the actual scenes shot in Voyager's shuttle bay have to be dismissed and we should assume the Delta is 20-ish meters long and 12-ish meters wide. I personally disagree with that as what we actually saw should count. So I personally just assume the Delta is close to 20-12, more like 18-19 long and 9-11 wide and as such is a advanced shuttlecraft but smaller than the Venture and Argo (20-21 meters long) and definitely smaller than a Danube (23m long).

Reflecting this, on my STO characters Delta shuttles do not have a U.S.S. prefix and are auxilliary vessels to their mothership (same registry with a suffix). Runabouts however are in my headcanon independent craft, get a U.S.S. and their own registry - that's at least what I do.

I agree with the independent operation. It's a long-range shuttlecraft in my book. I don't know how STO sees it, are Delta hangar pets 3 or 2 per hangar?

The only shuttle hangar pet the Feds that are 3's are the type 8/10 shuttles...Runabouts and Delta's are both 2's.

angrytarg · December 2015

lianthelia wrote: »

The only shuttle hangar pet the Feds that are 3's are the type 8/10 shuttles...Runabouts and Delta's are both 2's.

Thanks, I guess that's fair considering the regular shuttles are somewhere around 10 meters long (the Type 10 is only 6,5) I can live with that. I hadn't thought that but as @artan42 pointed out it's almost Runabout sized. So the Delta is some kind of special purpose craft, considering it can probably dive and all that.

artan42 · December 2015

angrytarg wrote: »

lianthelia wrote: »

The only shuttle hangar pet the Feds that are 3's are the type 8/10 shuttles...Runabouts and Delta's are both 2's.

Thanks, I guess that's fair considering the regular shuttles are somewhere around 10 meters long (the Type 10 is only 6,5) I can live with that. I hadn't thought that but as @artan42 pointed out it's almost Runabout sized. So the Delta is some kind of special purpose craft, considering it can probably dive and all that.

It's mainly the independent operations thing that suggests runabout to me. Plus the design language is nothing like other shuttles which are all tubes with underslung nacelles (except for the Type 10).

warpangel · December 2015

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

But then, the real challenge is giving them a purpose in game. Regular, repeatable uses for shuttles, ideally not just with special shuttle queues.

True. The missions with shuttles seem kinda contrived. For example, there's no compelling reason to take a shuttle into the Vault, beyond the script telling us to. Big ships can fit in there just fine.

I suppose the problem lies in the fact that in Star Trek, the shuttle is a plot device designed to get a few characters away from the ship so they can get into trouble. STO turned them into miniature starships to let players use them in combat, but that then leaves the question of why not just take your real ship.

angrytarg · December 2015

artan42 wrote: »

It's mainly the independent operations thing that suggests runabout to me. Plus the design language is nothing like other shuttles which are all tubes with underslung nacelles (except for the Type 10).

I can get behind that. I still think the Delta thing is kind of random, though. There's nothing they could derivate the Delta's design from and stuff came convniently up the shuttle was great at (like submerging into water and all that). Of course they needed a snazzy craft as a signature, but meh. Type 10 look like submarines already

warpangel wrote: »

True. The missions with shuttles seem kinda contrived. For example, there's no compelling reason to take a shuttle into the Vault, beyond the script telling us to. Big ships can fit in there just fine.

I suppose the problem lies in the fact that in Star Trek, the shuttle is a plot device designed to get a few characters away from the ship so they can get into trouble. STO turned them into miniature starships to let players use them in combat, but that then leaves the question of why not just take your real ship.

Absolutely. Shuttles really serve no purpose in this game and the fact that you can just slap your regular ship's stuff on it makes no sense. They should have kept shuttle equipment to collect, shuttles to fine-tune and confront us maybe with randomized missions requiring shuttle usage or even use them in epsiodes in a non-phony way. Having to go into the vault and fighting regular sized Romulan starships with it seems somehow... constructed.

mustrumridcully0 · December 2015

warpangel wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

But then, the real challenge is giving them a purpose in game. Regular, repeatable uses for shuttles, ideally not just with special shuttle queues.

True. The missions with shuttles seem kinda contrived. For example, there's no compelling reason to take a shuttle into the Vault, beyond the script telling us to. Big ships can fit in there just fine.

I suppose the problem lies in the fact that in Star Trek, the shuttle is a plot device designed to get a few characters away from the ship so they can get into trouble. STO turned them into miniature starships to let players use them in combat, but that then leaves the question of why not just take your real ship.

Well, if our Captains would speak more and write their own log book entries, we could start a shuttle mission like this.

"While the USS [PLAYER SHIP] is on a routine cartography mission in the Delta Voltanis Cluster, I have taken the USS [SHUTTLE NAME] to attend a conference on the planet Ofhats about the effects of the Iconian War on interstellar Trade and Commerce. I just recieved a distress signal from the Ferengi Freighter Golden Lobes [...]"

captz1pp · December 2015

I've said a few times before that they should add replacements for smallcraft like the Peregrine, and Type-8. Speaking of which, what would a standard Starfleet shuttle be labeled as now, Type-30something?

warpangel · December 2015

f2pdrakron wrote: »

warpangel wrote: »

True. The missions with shuttles seem kinda contrived. For example, there's no compelling reason to take a shuttle into the Vault, beyond the script telling us to. Big ships can fit in there just fine.

The only big ships you see inside is a Mogai and a Bird-of-prey.

Sure those fit, now lets try a Galaxy ...

And a D'deridex as the boss of the queue version. None of them are even a tight fit.

Also this is ignoring the reason why using a shuttle wasnt about ships being too big but so it would not trigger the Vault sensors and raise the alarm, same with Operation Gamma were there would be no way in hell the Jem'Hadat would miss a starship heading to the Wormhole.

Two words: Cloaking device.

STO turned them into miniature starships to let players use them in combat, but that then leaves the question of why not just take your real ship.

Let me get this ... you are complaining about the grand total of ... let me see ... The Vault, Operation Gamma and that Patrol in the Delta Quadrant that can be skipped ... sure Romulans have a extra specific mission that is pretty much a Fleet Action turned single player (and it shows) but that still makes it a grand total of FOUR shuttle miissions out of how many?

Yes. And that's the point. Those missions are the only reason to even have a shuttle, and only because you're arbitrarily forbidden from running them with a normal ship. There should be a use for them that doesn't come down to just being told to use one for no good reason.

bobbydazlers · December 2015

the only thing I would like to see shuttle wise is for the LTS/400 day subscription Exclusive Small Craft to be upgraded to account unlocks, they are bound to character in any case so why have them as a one time claim only, of course needless to say I assumed that like the veteran starships I could claim and delete these as I when I wanted and have obviously found after deleting them some time ago that to my astonishment I cant now reclaim them.

these Small Craft cannot be bought or gained in any way other then buying the lifetime sub or subbing monthly for 400 days they are Exclusive to these methods of obtaining them, its just nonsensical that they should not be a permanent unlock.

I obviously cannot buy a second lifetime subscription on the same account and in any case just to reclaim a few small craft it would be total waste of money.

ironically the only way I could claim these ships again is to discard my current characters with over 4 years of invested playtime each and completely start over.

I could understand if these Small Craft were available as separate purchases in the c-store or even the lobi store but they are not available to buy anywhere in the game.

kylethetrue · December 2015

They should let small craft be a viable choice in any mission. Use them the way Star Trek Attack Wing does. You have a squadron, your HP is the HP of your squadron. You take damage, your squadron gets smaller. Their weapons all take stats off your equipped ones. Each ship in your squadron has a bridge officer ability. Sounds fun right?

lordgyor · December 2015

For playable small craft, I'd like Orion Slavers, Orion Interceptors, and Orion Maurader Assault Shuttles.

angrytarg · December 2015

kylethetrue wrote: »

They should let small craft be a viable choice in any mission. Use them the way Star Trek Attack Wing does. You have a squadron, your HP is the HP of your squadron. You take damage, your squadron gets smaller. Their weapons all take stats off your equipped ones. Each ship in your squadron has a bridge officer ability. Sounds fun right?

I disagree. Shuttles are not a viable combat option, even a dozen of them. It's a fundamental thing in Star Trek that the only small craft with limited combat capabilities are Runabouts and above, the smaller craft are really not intented for combat. It's bad enough that we can use a B'Rel to wipe out fleets alone, doing that in shuttles would only be more ludicrous (in my opinion).

We need dedicated shuttle content and that should not be a simple rehash of default missions, just in a shuttle.

artan42 · December 2015

@angrytarg maybe they should introduce an X-Wing class shuttle. A small squad of those can wipe out moon or planet sized superweapons never mind a fleet

.

angrytarg · December 2015

@artan42 The "Empire at War" games which are a Star Wars themed real time strategy mix with ground and space combat (pretty nice, actually, but horribly balanced) have a special unit, "Red Squad". It's an X-wing squad led by, you guessed it, Red Five and it has a special ability called "lucky shot" which will insta-kill every capital ship it attacks

mewmaster101 · December 2015

bobbydazlers wrote: »

the only thing I would like to see shuttle wise is for the LTS/400 day subscription Exclusive Small Craft to be upgraded to account unlocks, they are bound to character in any case so why have them as a one time claim only, of course needless to say I assumed that like the veteran starships I could claim and delete these as I when I wanted and have obviously found after deleting them some time ago that to my astonishment I cant now reclaim them.

these Small Craft cannot be bought or gained in any way other then buying the lifetime sub or subbing monthly for 400 days they are Exclusive to these methods of obtaining them, its just nonsensical that they should not be a permanent unlock.

I obviously cannot buy a second lifetime subscription on the same account and in any case just to reclaim a few small craft it would be total waste of money.

ironically the only way I could claim these ships again is to discard my current characters with over 4 years of invested playtime each and completely start over.

I could understand if these Small Craft were available as separate purchases in the c-store or even the lobi store but they are not available to buy anywhere in the game.

they ARE account unlocks........

talk to the shuttle information person and she will give you, even then, i never have to do that either, i just go the the shuttle requisition after the veteran perks activate and can grab it immediately.

namreef · December 2015

@angrytarg I agree, should not be rehashed combat missions for shuttles, unless it's plotted against other small craft. It most definitely should, however, be for exploration/diplomatic/excursion missions unique for small craft. I also think that shuttles should have the unique shuttle equipment/weapons and not just the same items from starships.

I usually fly mine around when doing the different admiralty, doffing, r&d, etc., admin stuffs. I really hope shuttles are utilized more in the future.

bobbydazlers · December 2015

@ruinthefun & @mewmaster101 thanks for the info, I only really wanted it for admiralty, its not much but every little helps, I have a danube runabout, a ferengi shuttle, aperegrine and a yellowstone runabout and now the captains yatch though I only really use the danube for shuttle missions.

as for the OP yes there should be more shuttle only missions but then again a tier 1 starship has only got a slight edge over a shuttle so if you want to play missions with a shuttle like handicap try running through the missions with your first starship and see how far you can get before your outmatched.

Shuttle's, How to improve them and shuttles people want.

Comments

When I think about everything we've been through together,

maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

and if that journey takes a little longer,

so we can do something we all believe in,

I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

When I think about everything we've been through together,

maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

and if that journey takes a little longer,

so we can do something we all believe in,

I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.