well that exploit was asked to be made official, so we could, on occasion, beam in the actual social zones and engage the other players, even if they just set aside a few instances for combat. That'd be sweet. Think I'll go make a request
I would very much appreciate it if you can please deal with this rather despicable way of stealing someone else's prize. ON Christmas!!
What's wrong these wonderful people?
Its happened to me 5x this event. I come around the corner only to see someone stealing my 1st prize, then beaming out.
Next year please can you introduce some kind of mechanism to prevent this:
1.) Simple query in the DB for the race logs the people that are in the race AS THE ONLY ELIGIBLE people to pick-up the flags.
2.) Once the race starts The race finish is OUT OF LIMITS to ANYONE ELSE.
For the love of Q, please save Winter Wonderland fun!!!
KINDHEARTED? ...you mean UN kindhearted?
In the years I have been doing the event never seen that happened since you HAVE to be on the race to grab a flag...if there is an exploit then it needs to be shut down. Only thing I'm aware as exploit is using the 8472 rep armor that gives you an extra boost in running.
Originally I opted for lowlifes, but some folks thought I was being too personal
well that exploit was asked to be made official, so we could, on occasion, beam in the actual social zones and engage the other players, even if they just set aside a few instances for combat. That'd be sweet. Think I'll go make a request
I could see the merit of that - but at the time folks were shooting the mission NPCS which was kind of causing a disruption. Back in the day you actually had to run around alot to pickup the missions.
This exploit seems to have returned with the change to prevent beamout from Q's. For those that don't remember it was a problem 2 years ago that was eventually fixed and not present last year. It returned with that recent fix to the server not found thing when you logged out while in the WW.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It happened today again. I led the whole race, but no first place flag. There is definitely a bug or a cheat going on.
The best thing I can make of it, just speculating, that someone enters the race, goes to the finish area, logs out when the race is still on, logs in when another race is going and can pick up the flag right away.
If this is what's happening, then one way to avoid it would be to switch to the lowest population server you can when the 1 minute to race starting timer pops. The game seems to like to put people in almost full zones by default, so anyone using a method like that would end up in a fuller zone than you - unless there's enough exploiters for everyone, or all the zones are near full... or everyone reading this starts trying to switch zones and the lowest population gets packed.
If switching to a lower pop server makes you stop seeing vanishing first place flags then you've probably isolated the method.
I almost always zone swap and have only seen the missing flag thing happen twice that I'm certain of (ie, I was sure I was in either 1st or 2nd place), but I don't recall whether I neglected to swap on the times that it happened.
there was a bug that would allow players to take a short cut on the first bend missing a large portion of the track and insuring first place but they fixed this bug last year, it is possible that this bug has re-emerged but I can only say I have seen no evidence of anybody using it.
what players suggest about the chance of players logging out and logging back in just in time to grab 1st place in the next race isn't happening, the players character would immediately be classed as out of bounds the moment he logged out.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
there was a bug that would allow players to take a short cut on the first bend missing a large portion of the track and insuring first place but they fixed this bug last year, it is possible that this bug has re-emerged but I can only say I have seen no evidence of anybody using it.
what players suggest about the chance of players logging out and logging back in just in time to grab 1st place in the next race isn't happening, the players character would immediately be classed as out of bounds the moment he logged out.
After the cliff jump, someone in last place went over the hill in the corner of the left turn before the stretch with the boulders in the track.
Not by accident, either.
Since I was dq'd myself I don't know if they got the flag.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Yes there is some sort of exploit going on. I am really quite good at the PvP race and I use most of the non-exploitative ways to be fast. If I am racing, I place 1st or 2nd 99% of the time. Having a huge lead on everyone else in the race and turning that last corner to find no 1st flag or player at the end confirms it for me. The same (or similar) exploit has existed before and we all know how some of the STO bugs are.
Yes there is some sort of exploit going on. I am really quite good at the PvP race and I use most of the non-exploitative ways to be fast. If I am racing, I place 1st or 2nd 99% of the time. Having a huge lead on everyone else in the race and turning that last corner to find no 1st flag or player at the end confirms it for me. The same (or similar) exploit has existed before and we all know how some of the STO bugs are.
Yes.. This happening. I have witnessed it 5 times, and reported 3 of the offenders. All you have to do is watch zone chat in Wonderland and you will see the rants of "Who stole the Flag"; "What happened to the Flag". Another racer I was running with was actually recording the race and we both saw the person beam in, take the flag, and beam out.
The other player reviewed the recorded run, got the "thief's" name, and reported them in-game.
'Ah, but the strawberries, that's, that's where I had them, they laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, with geometric logic, that a duplicate key to the ward room icebox did exist...'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I have seen it time and again in zone chat after the race where people were not seeing first place flag when they were in first place. I am in first place so rarely that it hasn't happened to me. I'm usually in the back pack and normally get the two tags. Only missed out on that once when the time ran out just as I was about to click on it.
So yeah, I know there's some kind of exploit going on, and I'd even be so bold as to state that it's not just for the tags, but to 'get a rise' out of people by 'stealing' their flag. And that is the only time I would consider it stealing, when someone who hadn't run the race is able to grab it. Any other time, when more than one person is going for the same flag and the one whose click gets it is not stealing, even if they were behind. Grabbing a flag is part of that race and if you don't time it right you're going to either overshoot or undershoot it and someone else is going to get it instead. That isn't stealing, it's timing the grab better than the other one.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Well, if people didn't have something to whinge about they wouldn't be happy.
At least it seems that way. We should really provide some cheap cheese to go with the cheap whine. And before anyone misunderstands me, I'm just being sarcastic...if the sarcasm wasn't showing.
I know there's some kind of loophole being used by players to steal the flag in the FnF race. It's happened too many times and has even been witnessed several times of people beaming in, grabbing and beaming out. I just hope the devs can find the hole and cap it.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
So I found out how the exploit goes… should I point it out here or report? Or would pointing it out here for a Bug Hunter be a report? Would it be unofficial then? Would I need an official one instead?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Look at me I'm a target!" "Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK! "How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?" My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
So I found out how the exploit goes… should I point it out here or report? Or would pointing it out here for a Bug Hunter be a report? Would it be unofficial then? Would I need an official one instead?
Report it via support - sharing information on exploits is a no no.
Yeah don't post it here. In game report would be best then the right people will see it.
I know from chats that some people think this sort of thing is acceptable and we're making a big fuss but at the end of the day it's an exploit and damages the game. Exploit = more epoh tags = more marks = more dilithium = more zen or other purchases. So it is important it gets sorted out. Plus there's also the fact it's just outright cheating against other players so actually garms the players as well as the game.
Now the bug like KDF on ESD, well, nothing really was taken and it was all fun. Something I know a few of us would like to see more of. Group of KSF or SF beaming in on a raiding party and have to be taken in by active members in those zones. No one dies, to the brig you for until you beam out.
But this, well this isn't fun. I do wish 2nd 3rd and last gave more, its the idea you even tried that counts still.
While I agree, @lordsteve1 , that the exploit is bad for the game, it has nothing to do with creating more Dilithium. No extra dil is created. There is only one First Place Reward, one Second Place, one Third. In a race of 6 people, the same amount of tags are given out whether the exploit is used or not, it just changes who gets the tags. In fact, it people get frustrated with others cheating, they might stop running the race, which will reduce the number of tags being given out, which will reduce the dil given out. So yes, while the exploit is bad, it has nothing to do with Dilithium.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
What players suggest about the chance of players logging out and logging back in just in time to grab 1st place in the next race isn't happening, the players character would immediately be classed as out of bounds the moment he logged out.
Except I just watched a video by STO Unrefined, dated YESTERDAY. I won't go into details, because, well, Exploit, but there IS actual video evidence of it. Tweeted it to a few of the Devs shortly after seeing it.
Whilst it doesn't generate more dilithium is true, it's giving the player who cheats more than they should potentially be entitled to via an exploit. Therefore for that player it absolutely is about the payout as without the exploit they would likely get considerably less tags/marks/dil as others might beat them. They get more rewards due to cheating so they are "better off" as a result of this exploit. An exploit like this is using a loophole or bug or whatever in order to gain rewards that would normally take much longer to get or be harder to acquire. It's absolutely about the rewards here with the added bonus it trolls the other players.
I hate to play devil's advocate, god knows I try to avoid that but as annoying as it is (Yes I hate how the race systems are set up like this, don't get me wrong) but considering it's first come first serve, it's not rally stealing, the game allows for it. Now that being said, I'd like a redo of the system so that whover crosses the line gets that position, no flag grabbing.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Encountered someone using the exploit. 1st, 2nd and 3rd positions were all with me the entire race, with everyone else behind us, I fell 2nd towards the last straight, and noticed there was no 1st place flag as we approached the finish line. 1st place grabbed 2nd, I got 3rd despite being 2nd. Whoever grabbed 1st was never in sight, so must have been at the finish when the race started.
This is an exploit that ruins the PvP assuming the remaining flags don't result in actual qualification rewards, and it does result in extra Zen for exploiters (potentially at the expense of others) by tags conversion into Eppos into rep marks and into dilithium ore over time and into dil-ex.
It happened today again. I led the whole race, but no first place flag. There is definitely a bug or a cheat going on.
The best thing I can make of it, just speculating, that someone enters the race, goes to the finish area, logs out when the race is still on, logs in when another race is going and can pick up the flag right away.
That's a lot of trouble and senseless toon parking just for a few Epohh tags.
True, but just having the ability to grief others, is priceless to some it appears!!!
it's giving the player who cheats more than they should potentially be entitled to via an exploit.
That's not true. Yesterday I ran a race with a cheater and he was very good. Actually he could take 1st places in most of races without using the exploit.
The exploit exist.. I actually didn't know about it until a day ago. I saw it on YouTube by a gamer that wanted to test a rumor. If the rumor was true, he made sure to recorded it, to have a dev know about it and fix the exploit. Sadly people can cheat and get a head to get to the first place.. I don't care about epohhs this year .. So I have't tried it but the video clearly shows its there.. it is unfair to the other people in the race and should be fixed.
Well, I have now had the exploit explained to me, so yeah, is a thing. I have also seen players who are good enough at the race to make it seem to many like they are using an exploit, so be careful in accusations.
Myself, I've been in enough low-population instances (only way i was gonna place in the race!) to have plenty of tags to last me the rest of the event, so I am neither tempted to use the exploit, nor worried about being cheated against, since I am done for the winter. Now, I just need to run the PvE race to get the ship...
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
it's giving the player who cheats more than they should potentially be entitled to via an exploit.
That's not true. Yesterday I ran a race with a cheater and he was very good. Actually he could take 1st places in most of races without using the exploit.
Then why does he cheat?
And do you really think it is not true?
When your "friend" doesn't cheat there are say 10 other players who could beat him, so his chance of 1st place is not guaranteed. There's always a potential someone else will beat him.
But when someone cheats the other players have not a hope in hell of getting 1st place and the potential for other winners is gone, so clearly the exploit is giving him a huge advantage over everyone else. That is practically the definition of cheating!
I don't care if the guy you raced with is the best racer in the whole universe, the fact that they willingly will use and exploit to cheat is inexcusable, and shame on you for defending them.
I don't think the baubles earned at the end of the race are what's making people angry.I It's the fact that you run the race legitimately only to see someone use an exploit to win. That's what I think is causing the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Most of us want to win and do so playing by the rules. It's human nature. the analogy I come up with is that you run a race. You're in the lead and the finish line is in sight only to see someone who started at the back of the field suddenly get of a car and cross the finish line. What makes it worse is the people in charge look the other way thereby condoning the illegal action. It would make me mad as hell even with nothing on the line save the winning itself.
If winning the prize is the issue it's like camping out in line for days to get Star Wars tickets only to have someone just walk up and cut in line ahead of you. You're the one who waited all that time and someone else gets the tickets with no effort at all. Then no one does anything about it. Kinda infuriating isn't it?
In the end it's about people cheating when others play by the rules.
Sorry for the wall of text. ☺
Post edited by jodarkrider on
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Comments
Originally I opted for lowlifes, but some folks thought I was being too personal
I could see the merit of that - but at the time folks were shooting the mission NPCS which was kind of causing a disruption. Back in the day you actually had to run around alot to pickup the missions.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If this is what's happening, then one way to avoid it would be to switch to the lowest population server you can when the 1 minute to race starting timer pops. The game seems to like to put people in almost full zones by default, so anyone using a method like that would end up in a fuller zone than you - unless there's enough exploiters for everyone, or all the zones are near full... or everyone reading this starts trying to switch zones and the lowest population gets packed.
If switching to a lower pop server makes you stop seeing vanishing first place flags then you've probably isolated the method.
I almost always zone swap and have only seen the missing flag thing happen twice that I'm certain of (ie, I was sure I was in either 1st or 2nd place), but I don't recall whether I neglected to swap on the times that it happened.
what players suggest about the chance of players logging out and logging back in just in time to grab 1st place in the next race isn't happening, the players character would immediately be classed as out of bounds the moment he logged out.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
After the cliff jump, someone in last place went over the hill in the corner of the left turn before the stretch with the boulders in the track.
Not by accident, either.
Since I was dq'd myself I don't know if they got the flag.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Yes.. This happening. I have witnessed it 5 times, and reported 3 of the offenders. All you have to do is watch zone chat in Wonderland and you will see the rants of "Who stole the Flag"; "What happened to the Flag". Another racer I was running with was actually recording the race and we both saw the person beam in, take the flag, and beam out.
The other player reviewed the recorded run, got the "thief's" name, and reported them in-game.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So yeah, I know there's some kind of exploit going on, and I'd even be so bold as to state that it's not just for the tags, but to 'get a rise' out of people by 'stealing' their flag. And that is the only time I would consider it stealing, when someone who hadn't run the race is able to grab it. Any other time, when more than one person is going for the same flag and the one whose click gets it is not stealing, even if they were behind. Grabbing a flag is part of that race and if you don't time it right you're going to either overshoot or undershoot it and someone else is going to get it instead. That isn't stealing, it's timing the grab better than the other one.
At least it seems that way. We should really provide some cheap cheese to go with the cheap whine. And before anyone misunderstands me, I'm just being sarcastic...if the sarcasm wasn't showing.
I know there's some kind of loophole being used by players to steal the flag in the FnF race. It's happened too many times and has even been witnessed several times of people beaming in, grabbing and beaming out. I just hope the devs can find the hole and cap it.
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
Report it via support - sharing information on exploits is a no no.
I know from chats that some people think this sort of thing is acceptable and we're making a big fuss but at the end of the day it's an exploit and damages the game.
Exploit = more epoh tags = more marks = more dilithium = more zen or other purchases.
So it is important it gets sorted out. Plus there's also the fact it's just outright cheating against other players so actually garms the players as well as the game.
Now the bug like KDF on ESD, well, nothing really was taken and it was all fun. Something I know a few of us would like to see more of. Group of KSF or SF beaming in on a raiding party and have to be taken in by active members in those zones. No one dies, to the brig you for until you beam out.
But this, well this isn't fun. I do wish 2nd 3rd and last gave more, its the idea you even tried that counts still.
Except I just watched a video by STO Unrefined, dated YESTERDAY. I won't go into details, because, well, Exploit, but there IS actual video evidence of it. Tweeted it to a few of the Devs shortly after seeing it.
They get more rewards due to cheating so they are "better off" as a result of this exploit.
An exploit like this is using a loophole or bug or whatever in order to gain rewards that would normally take much longer to get or be harder to acquire. It's absolutely about the rewards here with the added bonus it trolls the other players.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
This is an exploit that ruins the PvP assuming the remaining flags don't result in actual qualification rewards, and it does result in extra Zen for exploiters (potentially at the expense of others) by tags conversion into Eppos into rep marks and into dilithium ore over time and into dil-ex.
True, but just having the ability to grief others, is priceless to some it appears!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Myself, I've been in enough low-population instances (only way i was gonna place in the race!) to have plenty of tags to last me the rest of the event, so I am neither tempted to use the exploit, nor worried about being cheated against, since I am done for the winter. Now, I just need to run the PvE race to get the ship...
Then why does he cheat?
And do you really think it is not true?
When your "friend" doesn't cheat there are say 10 other players who could beat him, so his chance of 1st place is not guaranteed. There's always a potential someone else will beat him.
But when someone cheats the other players have not a hope in hell of getting 1st place and the potential for other winners is gone, so clearly the exploit is giving him a huge advantage over everyone else. That is practically the definition of cheating!
I don't care if the guy you raced with is the best racer in the whole universe, the fact that they willingly will use and exploit to cheat is inexcusable, and shame on you for defending them.
Most of us want to win and do so playing by the rules. It's human nature. the analogy I come up with is that you run a race. You're in the lead and the finish line is in sight only to see someone who started at the back of the field suddenly get of a car and cross the finish line. What makes it worse is the people in charge look the other way thereby condoning the illegal action. It would make me mad as hell even with nothing on the line save the winning itself.
If winning the prize is the issue it's like camping out in line for days to get Star Wars tickets only to have someone just walk up and cut in line ahead of you. You're the one who waited all that time and someone else gets the tickets with no effort at all. Then no one does anything about it. Kinda infuriating isn't it?
In the end it's about people cheating when others play by the rules.
Sorry for the wall of text. ☺
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.