As I stated previously but simplifying it for the Shipyard:
ZEN Symbol = Console No Zen Symbol = No Console
One exception: Lifetime Subscriber Heavy Destroyer comes with a Console
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Although it may seem like a cash-grab, there is some logic to why they do things the way they do them.
Z-store ships are usually good enough for most people, and they're account-wide unlocked once you buy them. For those with multiple characters, or for those without a fleet and no interest in joining one, there is limited reason to buy a fleet variant and the standard variant may be more interesting in these cases.
The standard Z-store ships are usually good enough, which means that people usually buy that ship anyways. If you do decide to only buy the fleet ship, then it's kinda logical that you don't get everything you would have gotten if you had bought the standard ship first.
One problem with your argument...logic!
Most people don't understand logic and in this game feel pretty entitled...people expect to have their cake and eat it too...if they don't it's either broken, unfair, or weak.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
DUDE... In that very link you posted, the trait and console is CLEARLY listed in the C-Store version of the ship. In the very same link, the FLEET version is listed with its stats.
Yeah. Except I asked,
"Where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console?"
Not listing it for the Fleet version is *not* the same as explicitely stating you're not getting one. Like I said,
"Naturally, this first-time Fleet-ship buyer isn't going to double-check the entire item-list, to see whether they perchance removed an item for the Fleet ship (if for nothing else, because it's conceptually logical to assume the Fleet ship will always be better, in every way)."
P.S. And what is this 'fleet ship you do not have to spend money on' non-sense?! 5x Fleet modules cost 2,500 Zen (the fact that you can also buy them off the exchange changes nothing: the Fleet modules are already bought and paid for -- just not by you).
Why would you not double check something like that, most of all since it is not listed on the fleet ship's statics at all, and in the description it does say that it will not come with the ship trait which would make me wonder "oh what else is excluded from the flee version?" Actually that is kinda the fact you can buy the fleet version without spending a dime yourself, where as those buying the ship itself from the c-store are spending their own money to support the game. An yeah the ship is better in almost every way statically speaking the ship is better, but also why would youget everything for the fleet ship if it actually costs less than the zen store version? 2.5k zen for the fleet version compared to 3k zen for the zen-store ship? It would make no sense to ever buy the zen-store ship as you are wasting 500 zen for a inferior ship.
"Where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console?"
Both ships' stats are listed. One ship (Fleet version) explicitly doesn't list the console among its stats. If one doesn't conclude that the console doesn't come with the ship, then they either lack intellectual acquity or are being deliberately obtuse.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Are you kidding, ACCOUNT UNLOCKS. FSM module discount not just for that character but every Faction eligible Character on the Account. Not to mention Admiralty Cards for all Faction eligible Characters on the Account, T5 Mastery, Console, though your milage may vary with the latter two.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Also, buy the C-Store Version during opening Weekend or during Sales.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This is my first and last time I am purchasing fleet ships. For one thing they don't come with a V mastery skill. . . second, they don't come with the console mod from the C-Store ship. The lack of console mod was NEVER mentioned in the description. Maybe it is supposed to be common knowledge, but not putting it in the description is just not right. What about the new people (or even people who have been playing for 5 years who don't know this). I feel like I was baited then switched. . . . At least you should be able to pick up the console mod in a store. . . .
Having to purchase the c-store ship just to get the mod for the fleet version is not right. This whole game has become a money making trick. I am truly getting frustrated with this financial model.
I am done. . . last time for making any c-store or fleet ship purchases. This has completely ruined my experience.
The fleet ships are meant to be purchased after the Cstore ships. You buy the Cstore ship and if it happens to be one you really like, you get the Fleet version. If you already own the Cstore ship, the fleet ones cost a mere 1 Fleet ship Module.
With that in mind it only makes sense that they wouldn't come with a 5th ship mastery nor a console. You are assumed to already have those if you are buying the fleet version.
"Thou shalt respect the weak and shalt constitute thyself defender of them."
-3rd Commmandment of Chivalry
DUDE... In that very link you posted, the trait and console is CLEARLY listed in the C-Store version of the ship. In the very same link, the FLEET version is listed with its stats.
Yeah. Except I asked,
"Where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console?"
Not listing it for the Fleet version is *not* the same as explicitely stating you're not getting one. Like I said,
"Naturally, this first-time Fleet-ship buyer isn't going to double-check the entire item-list, to see whether they perchance removed an item for the Fleet ship (if for nothing else, because it's conceptually logical to assume the Fleet ship will always be better, in every way)."
P.S. And what is this 'fleet ship you do not have to spend money on' non-sense?! 5x Fleet modules cost 2,500 Zen (the fact that you can also buy them off the exchange changes nothing: the Fleet modules are already bought and paid for -- just not by you).
Seriously man, does Cryptic need to issue a quiz before people buy things?
You cannot buy neither C-Store nor Fleet version of any ship until you come across a page of some sort ingame that lists the information. If people ignore that information, ignore the website news page, have no attention to any sort of detail, there is nothing that can be done.
Agreed, it is not bait and switch, but it should be clearer for first time buyer. I have read all of the news. I did research, I just didn't see that it did not come with a console. It clearly did say it does not have a master V.
All I am saying is that they should have the "common knowledge" someplace that is not buried in old news, etc. I made a mistake, now I know. . . . and what I know is that I will not buy another fleet ship.
From cryptic's perspective, doesn't that kind of defeat their goal of having people purchase from the store and fleet? At this point I am not going to spend another $30 for the store version. While if I was clear of the discount, I would have purchased the store version, and probably would have then purchased the fleet version for another 500 zen.
I agree with asuran14 and others, I think cryptic needs to put a pop up or make it mandatory to purchase c-store before fleet version. . . . they would actually get more $$ that way instead of frustrating first time fleet ship buyers. . . oh well.
Seriously man, does Cryptic need to issue a quiz before people buy things?
You cannot buy neither C-Store nor Fleet version of any ship until you come across a page of some sort ingame that lists the information. If people ignore that information, ignore the website news page, have no attention to any sort of detail, there is nothing that can be done.
A reading quiz as a timed unlock; where completing it once a month lets you buy Fleet ships without further questioning after answering it correctly. But if you haven't bought in a while or it's your first time, you get quizzed. Let it be a short description of the differences between Fleet and C-Store versions, then offer 3 questions, each with 4 answers in random order each time, and only with 2 chances to get each question right, or you have to read the whole thing over. 3 failures lock the illiterate player out for 30 minutes to rage incoherently. This is not hard, and not difficult. For experienced and active players, this is mostly common knowledge (and if it's not, then they too will learn in the process) and lets them breeze through. For experienced players who've taken a break, this is a refresher.
For example:
[Paragraph over differences between T5/T6 Fleet ships vs equivalent T5/T6 C-Store ships]
Q1: What are the major differences between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type?
Answer choices listed randomly, but same wording every time, and only one of them is right. 2 tries.
- Fleet ships have a Starship Mastery Trait and unique Console, but the C-Store version does not.
- C-Store ships have a Starship Mastery Trait and unique Console, but the Fleet version does not.
- Fleet ships have a Starship Mastery Trait, but C-Store versions have a unique Console.
- C-Store ships have a Starship Mastery Trait, but Fleet versions have a unique Console.
Q2: What statistic differences are there between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type?
Answer list; again in random order, but same wording every time. Again, only 2 tries.
- Fleet ships have higher stats and an extra console slot.
- C-Store ships have higher stats and an extra console slot.
- Fleet ships have higher stats while C-Store ships have an extra console slot.
- C-Store ships have higher stats while Fleet ships have an extra console slot.
Q3: How does the Fleet Module discount work between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type?
Answer list; random order each attempt, 2 tries. and this one is practically a giveaway:
- Purchasing a Fleet ship reduces the Zen cost of the Tier equivalent C-store ship to 500.
- Purchasing a C-Store ship does not reduce the Fleet Module cost of the Tier equivalent Fleet ship to 1.
- Purchasing a Fleet ship reduces the Fleet Module cost of the Tier equivalent C-Store ship to 1.
- Purchasing a C-Store ship reduces the Fleet Module cost of the Tier equivalent Fleet ship to 1.
If necessary, add a 4th question, just to cover this base, as some people have whined about it as well in the past, and may still have missed the "Tier equivalent" or "same Tier and type" portion of the reading.
Q4: Do C-Store ships of a lower tier but of the same type as a higher Tier Fleet ship grant a discount?
Answer list; random order, 1 try. Failing this resets all questions and you have to start over.
- Yes. C-Store ships of a lower tier but of same type grant a Fleet Module discount for the higher Tier Fleet version.
- No. C-Store ships of a lower tier but of the same type DO NOT grant a Fleet Module discount for the higher Tier Fleet version.
There are no trick questions; only trick answers that one must read before selecting. The questions will remain the same, word for word. The answers will remain the same, word for word. The only change is the order in which they are presented, which switches up each time it's reset, so you cannot just click Answer 2, Answer 1, Answer 4, and Answer 2 every time.
Of course, we could make the 3-4 questions random by throwing in more questions, but that might be more than necessary.
Alternate Questions (just imagine the answer lists for each):
- Can Fleet ships use C-Store ship skins of the same type without owning the C-Store ship? (2 answers; random order. 1 try)
- What other differences are there between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type? (4 answers related to account unlock and single-character unlock; random order. 2 tries.)
These could probably be worded better; such as "class" or "ship line" instead of "type", but you get the idea. I'm not an Elementary school teacher.
As warmaker pointed out, it explicitly says it, right in the article you linked:
"Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait."
And the console is not listed in the "Ship Details."
Reading is OP.
Perhaps you need to find yourself a dictionary, and look up what explicitely really means. I guess reading really *is* OP, isn't it?! :P
So, again, where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console? It doesn't. In fact, thanks for helping me make my case, LOL, as Cryptic goes out of their way to explicitely state that, "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait." Clearly, they deemed it important enough (and rightly so) to mention you do *not* get the Trait with the Fleet ship. Which overwhelmingly proves my point: they should also clearly mention you do *not* get the unique ship console with it.
As warmaker pointed out, it explicitly says it, right in the article you linked:
"Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait."
And the console is not listed in the "Ship Details."
Reading is OP.
Perhaps you need to find yourself a dictionary, and look up what explicitely really means. I guess reading really *is* OP, isn't it?! :P
So, again, where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console? It doesn't. In fact, thanks for helping me make my case, LOL, as Cryptic goes out of their way to explicitely state that, "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait." Clearly, they deemed it important enough (and rightly so) to mention you do *not* get the Trait with the Fleet ship. Which overwhelmingly proves my point: they should also clearly mention you do *not* get the unique ship console with it.
Still a learn to read thing...the C-Store version says it comes with the console while the Fleet version doesn't.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
It is more of that players do not always do their due diligence and read up prior to their purchase, and don't always use common sense when buying a ship, just making assumptions on what they think should come with the ship. It comes down to that the info for what comes with a fleet an non-fleet ship is listed, which is the due diligence for the company to list this info for the buyer, but than the player has to do their part an seek out info if things look out of place to them prior to putting the money out for the ship. Normally if i see something omitted from a list of stats on a ship or item, than i look into for why it is omitted prior to buying the item/ship.
@tryptophan286
I dunno... while I feel bad that you are upset, I don't understand why you wouldn't research a product before you purchase it.
The whole concept of releasing a Fleet version that has EVERYTHING the C-Store version has and more (And cheaper!) would make me at least a bit suspicious.
They added "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait." a couple of updates ago because there were similar threads with people complaining how the Fleet Version didn't come with the trait.
I guess they need to change it to "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait. Oh and they don't come with the damn console either"
..But I'm sure people will find something else and before long it will be "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait.Oh and they don't come with the damn console either or the skins of the other variants or weapons that can be upgraded or the Leeta BOff"
..But I'm sure people will find something else and before long it will be "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait.Oh and they don't come with the damn console either or the skins of the other variants or weapons that can be upgraded or the Leeta BOff"
They should put a massive disclaimer in all caps, that basically says:
DISCLAIMER:
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH A 5TH MASTERY TRAIT, DO NOT HAVE A UNIQUE CONSOLE, AND DO NOT HAVE FREE ACCESS TO RELATED C-STORE SHIP SKINS YOU HAVE NOT PURCHASED.
- FLEET SHIPS ARE SINGLE-CHARACTER UNLOCKS. YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THE SAME PRICE AGAIN SHOULD YOU DISCHARGE A FLEET SHIP.
- PURCHASING A FLEET SHIP ON ONE CHARACTER DOES NOT DISCOUNT FLEET SHIP PURCHASES ON ANOTHER CHARACTER OF THE SAME ACCOUNT.
- FLEET SHIPS REQUIRE BEING A MEMBER OF A FLEET WITH THE APPROPRIATE FACILITIES CONSTRUCTED.
- FLEET SHIPS REQUIRE PURCHASING RIGHTS FROM THE FLEET YOU JOINED.
- WE LEAVE FLEET PURCHASING RIGHTS HANDLING TO THE FLEET LEADERS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH UNIQUE WEAPONS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH BRIDGE OFFICERS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH UNIQUE BRIDGE INTERIORS.
- WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR REQUIRED TO RESPOND TO CLAIMS OF FALSE ADVERTISEMENT DUE TO READING COMPREHENSION FAILURE.
- ASSUME LISTED STATS ARE FINAL. IF IT'S NOT LISTED, IT LIKELY DOESN'T HAVE IT ON RELEASE.
- ALL LISTED STATS AND EQUIPMENT ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE, AND WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER RELEASE.
What else have I missed that's been endlessly argued as far as Fleet ships go?
This is my first and last time I am purchasing fleet ships. For one thing they don't come with a V mastery skill. . . second, they don't come with the console mod from the C-Store ship. The lack of console mod was NEVER mentioned in the description. Maybe it is supposed to be common knowledge, but not putting it in the description is just not right. What about the new people (or even people who have been playing for 5 years who don't know this). I feel like I was baited then switched. . . . At least you should be able to pick up the console mod in a store. . . .
Having to purchase the c-store ship just to get the mod for the fleet version is not right. This whole game has become a money making trick. I am truly getting frustrated with this financial model.
I am done. . . last time for making any c-store or fleet ship purchases. This has completely ruined my experience.
OP I guess you NEVER read what came with the Fleet versions or what the C-store versions have. If you had actaully read either the summary or the specs you would have known that fleet ships do not come with the console or trait. So instead of ranting against the game you need to stop look in the mirror and say "Man I screwed up not reading things." It's YOUR FAULT you made the mistake not the games in this case.
It was always a money-making "trick." Things like this don't get done as a hobby project. The advice, which goes back perhaps as far as 1528, is caveat emptor: "let the buyer beware."
Most people don't understand logic and in this game feel pretty entitled...people expect to have their cake and eat it too...if they don't it's either broken, unfair, or weak.
With all due respect to your good self, I believe they want a clown, a magician, and a pony--and two cakes.
..But I'm sure people will find something else and before long it will be "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait.Oh and they don't come with the damn console either or the skins of the other variants or weapons that can be upgraded or the Leeta BOff"
They should put a massive disclaimer in all caps, that basically says:
DISCLAIMER:
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH A 5TH MASTERY TRAIT, DO NOT HAVE A UNIQUE CONSOLE, AND DO NOT HAVE FREE ACCESS TO RELATED C-STORE SHIP SKINS YOU HAVE NOT PURCHASED.
- FLEET SHIPS ARE SINGLE-CHARACTER UNLOCKS. YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THE SAME PRICE AGAIN SHOULD YOU DISCHARGE A FLEET SHIP.
- PURCHASING A FLEET SHIP ON ONE CHARACTER DOES NOT DISCOUNT FLEET SHIP PURCHASES ON ANOTHER CHARACTER OF THE SAME ACCOUNT.
- FLEET SHIPS REQUIRE BEING A MEMBER OF A FLEET WITH THE APPROPRIATE FACILITIES CONSTRUCTED.
- FLEET SHIPS REQUIRE PURCHASING RIGHTS FROM THE FLEET YOU JOINED.
- WE LEAVE FLEET PURCHASING RIGHTS HANDLING TO THE FLEET LEADERS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH UNIQUE WEAPONS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH BRIDGE OFFICERS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH UNIQUE BRIDGE INTERIORS.
- WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR REQUIRED TO RESPOND TO CLAIMS OF FALSE ADVERTISEMENT DUE TO READING COMPREHENSION FAILURE.
- ASSUME LISTED STATS ARE FINAL. IF IT'S NOT LISTED, IT LIKELY DOESN'T HAVE IT ON RELEASE.
- ALL LISTED STATS AND EQUIPMENT ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE, AND WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER RELEASE.
What else have I missed that's been endlessly argued as far as Fleet ships go?
I'm pretty sure some people will still ignore that or do/believe something stupid again ("I purchased a fleet ship, now my TRIBBLE is stuck in the dishwasher, Cryptic didn't warn me!").
No intelligent human being would buy the fleet Version outright.
Sorry to disagree, but there can be very good reasons to do it. Each of my characters for example flies a different ship so I have no need to claim it multiple times. My Romulan main flies a T'Varo with both the Protonic Arsenal and the Counter-Command Ordnance set. Lots of bonus damage for photon torpedoes, so I have no use for the Plasma torpedo console of the Malem. I'm not interested in the costume or the starship trait either, so buying the fleet version outright gave me everything I wanted for 1000 Zen less than what I would have paid if I had bought the Malem first.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Wish they would have kept the original purchase rule...you must own the ZEN store version before you are allowed to purchase the fleet version. But of course whiners will be whiners.
Fleet ships almost made sense, once upon a time, for people who'd already bought all the other stuff and needed some extra power creep for high-end PvP and Elite STF's.
With T6 variant ships rolling out, with new gimmicks all the time... Why wouldn't you buy an account unlock and not bother to buy a Fleet ship that's going to be obsoleted sooner or later?
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense to buy Fleet ships anymore. And even when it did, they were still a poor value at $25 for 4 FSM's.
The guy who bought a $20 T5 Defiant all those years ago has by now sunk $5 into a Fleet T5 version, paid the $ to bump it up to Fleet T5U, bought a T6 Valiant for $30, and along the way probably invested in a T6 Phantom for another $30 and $60 on a T6 Pilot bundle with or without Fleet upgrades. He should spend another $5 per character to buy Fleet Valiants after he already spent $5 per character per ship to upgrade the others?
The power creep and the variant train are now well-established features of the game and only the most obsessive, well-to-do, hardcore STO gamers should even think about buying a character-locked Fleet variant and even they might want to think twice.
I can't see myself ever buying a Fleet ship. Even the most cursory review of the stats will reveal that they get none of the gimmicks that the base C-Store ship got. That wee bit extra oomph? Can probably find more effective purchases for that. It's a status symbol, and an expensive one at that.
But if I do ever get one, it'll be at a discount because I already bought the C-Store version. On sale, most likely.
All I can to this is read everything before buying anything and join a fleet that is active with knowledgable player base to ask questions you might have...or at the very least you could have come to the forums first and then purchase; not purchase then forums.
Lesson learned you won't do it again.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Fleet ships almost made sense, once upon a time, for people who'd already bought all the other stuff and needed some extra power creep for high-end PvP and Elite STF's.
With T6 variant ships rolling out, with new gimmicks all the time... Why wouldn't you buy an account unlock and not bother to buy a Fleet ship that's going to be obsoleted sooner or later?
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense to buy Fleet ships anymore. And even when it did, they were still a poor value at $25 for 4 FSM's.
The guy who bought a $20 T5 Defiant all those years ago has by now sunk $5 into a Fleet T5 version, paid the $ to bump it up to Fleet T5U, bought a T6 Valiant for $30, and along the way probably invested in a T6 Phantom for another $30 and $60 on a T6 Pilot bundle with or without Fleet upgrades. He should spend another $5 per character to buy Fleet Valiants after he already spent $5 per character per ship to upgrade the others?
The power creep and the variant train are now well-established features of the game and only the most obsessive, well-to-do, hardcore STO gamers should even think about buying a character-locked Fleet variant and even they might want to think twice.
I can't see myself ever buying a Fleet ship. Even the most cursory review of the stats will reveal that they get none of the gimmicks that the base C-Store ship got. That wee bit extra oomph? Can probably find more effective purchases for that. It's a status symbol, and an expensive one at that.
But if I do ever get one, it'll be at a discount because I already bought the C-Store version. On sale, most likely.
Never had to buy 4 fsm's as I bought the C-store one first. Duh... Neither I have I actually spent real cash on a ship in two years yet I have all the fleet and t-6's I want. How? By grinding thats how so your wallet outrage is unfounded. But then again you sound like a wallet warrior so yeah keep spending that cash. Plus once you earn a trait from a c-store ship that trait CAN be used as well as the console that came with the c-store ship PLUS fleet versions have a higher number of hit points then C-store versions. So again you outrage is moot.
Comments
ZEN Symbol = Console
No Zen Symbol = No Console
One exception: Lifetime Subscriber Heavy Destroyer comes with a Console
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
One problem with your argument...logic!
Most people don't understand logic and in this game feel pretty entitled...people expect to have their cake and eat it too...if they don't it's either broken, unfair, or weak.
Yeah. Except I asked,
"Where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console?"
Not listing it for the Fleet version is *not* the same as explicitely stating you're not getting one. Like I said,
"Naturally, this first-time Fleet-ship buyer isn't going to double-check the entire item-list, to see whether they perchance removed an item for the Fleet ship (if for nothing else, because it's conceptually logical to assume the Fleet ship will always be better, in every way)."
P.S. And what is this 'fleet ship you do not have to spend money on' non-sense?! 5x Fleet modules cost 2,500 Zen (the fact that you can also buy them off the exchange changes nothing: the Fleet modules are already bought and paid for -- just not by you).
Both ships' stats are listed. One ship (Fleet version) explicitly doesn't list the console among its stats. If one doesn't conclude that the console doesn't come with the ship, then they either lack intellectual acquity or are being deliberately obtuse.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The fleet ships are meant to be purchased after the Cstore ships. You buy the Cstore ship and if it happens to be one you really like, you get the Fleet version. If you already own the Cstore ship, the fleet ones cost a mere 1 Fleet ship Module.
With that in mind it only makes sense that they wouldn't come with a 5th ship mastery nor a console. You are assumed to already have those if you are buying the fleet version.
-3rd Commmandment of Chivalry
As warmaker pointed out, it explicitly says it, right in the article you linked:
"Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait."
And the console is not listed in the "Ship Details."
Reading is OP.
Seriously man, does Cryptic need to issue a quiz before people buy things?
You cannot buy neither C-Store nor Fleet version of any ship until you come across a page of some sort ingame that lists the information. If people ignore that information, ignore the website news page, have no attention to any sort of detail, there is nothing that can be done.
All I am saying is that they should have the "common knowledge" someplace that is not buried in old news, etc. I made a mistake, now I know. . . . and what I know is that I will not buy another fleet ship.
From cryptic's perspective, doesn't that kind of defeat their goal of having people purchase from the store and fleet? At this point I am not going to spend another $30 for the store version. While if I was clear of the discount, I would have purchased the store version, and probably would have then purchased the fleet version for another 500 zen.
I agree with asuran14 and others, I think cryptic needs to put a pop up or make it mandatory to purchase c-store before fleet version. . . . they would actually get more $$ that way instead of frustrating first time fleet ship buyers. . . oh well.
A reading quiz as a timed unlock; where completing it once a month lets you buy Fleet ships without further questioning after answering it correctly. But if you haven't bought in a while or it's your first time, you get quizzed. Let it be a short description of the differences between Fleet and C-Store versions, then offer 3 questions, each with 4 answers in random order each time, and only with 2 chances to get each question right, or you have to read the whole thing over. 3 failures lock the illiterate player out for 30 minutes to rage incoherently. This is not hard, and not difficult. For experienced and active players, this is mostly common knowledge (and if it's not, then they too will learn in the process) and lets them breeze through. For experienced players who've taken a break, this is a refresher.
For example:
[Paragraph over differences between T5/T6 Fleet ships vs equivalent T5/T6 C-Store ships]
Q1: What are the major differences between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type?
Answer choices listed randomly, but same wording every time, and only one of them is right. 2 tries.
- Fleet ships have a Starship Mastery Trait and unique Console, but the C-Store version does not.
- C-Store ships have a Starship Mastery Trait and unique Console, but the Fleet version does not.
- Fleet ships have a Starship Mastery Trait, but C-Store versions have a unique Console.
- C-Store ships have a Starship Mastery Trait, but Fleet versions have a unique Console.
Q2: What statistic differences are there between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type?
Answer list; again in random order, but same wording every time. Again, only 2 tries.
- Fleet ships have higher stats and an extra console slot.
- C-Store ships have higher stats and an extra console slot.
- Fleet ships have higher stats while C-Store ships have an extra console slot.
- C-Store ships have higher stats while Fleet ships have an extra console slot.
Q3: How does the Fleet Module discount work between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type?
Answer list; random order each attempt, 2 tries. and this one is practically a giveaway:
- Purchasing a Fleet ship reduces the Zen cost of the Tier equivalent C-store ship to 500.
- Purchasing a C-Store ship does not reduce the Fleet Module cost of the Tier equivalent Fleet ship to 1.
- Purchasing a Fleet ship reduces the Fleet Module cost of the Tier equivalent C-Store ship to 1.
- Purchasing a C-Store ship reduces the Fleet Module cost of the Tier equivalent Fleet ship to 1.
If necessary, add a 4th question, just to cover this base, as some people have whined about it as well in the past, and may still have missed the "Tier equivalent" or "same Tier and type" portion of the reading.
Q4: Do C-Store ships of a lower tier but of the same type as a higher Tier Fleet ship grant a discount?
Answer list; random order, 1 try. Failing this resets all questions and you have to start over.
- Yes. C-Store ships of a lower tier but of same type grant a Fleet Module discount for the higher Tier Fleet version.
- No. C-Store ships of a lower tier but of the same type DO NOT grant a Fleet Module discount for the higher Tier Fleet version.
There are no trick questions; only trick answers that one must read before selecting. The questions will remain the same, word for word. The answers will remain the same, word for word. The only change is the order in which they are presented, which switches up each time it's reset, so you cannot just click Answer 2, Answer 1, Answer 4, and Answer 2 every time.
Of course, we could make the 3-4 questions random by throwing in more questions, but that might be more than necessary.
Alternate Questions (just imagine the answer lists for each):
- Can Fleet ships use C-Store ship skins of the same type without owning the C-Store ship? (2 answers; random order. 1 try)
- What other differences are there between a Fleet ship and a C-Store ship of the same Tier and type? (4 answers related to account unlock and single-character unlock; random order. 2 tries.)
These could probably be worded better; such as "class" or "ship line" instead of "type", but you get the idea. I'm not an Elementary school teacher.
Perhaps you need to find yourself a dictionary, and look up what explicitely really means. I guess reading really *is* OP, isn't it?! :P
So, again, where exactly does it explicitely say the Fleet ship doesn't come with the C-Store console? It doesn't. In fact, thanks for helping me make my case, LOL, as Cryptic goes out of their way to explicitely state that, "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait." Clearly, they deemed it important enough (and rightly so) to mention you do *not* get the Trait with the Fleet ship. Which overwhelmingly proves my point: they should also clearly mention you do *not* get the unique ship console with it.
Still a learn to read thing...the C-Store version says it comes with the console while the Fleet version doesn't.
I dunno... while I feel bad that you are upset, I don't understand why you wouldn't research a product before you purchase it.
The whole concept of releasing a Fleet version that has EVERYTHING the C-Store version has and more (And cheaper!) would make me at least a bit suspicious.
They added "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait." a couple of updates ago because there were similar threads with people complaining how the Fleet Version didn't come with the trait.
I guess they need to change it to "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait. Oh and they don't come with the damn console either"
..But I'm sure people will find something else and before long it will be "Tier 6 Fleet ships do not have a fifth Starship Mastery level and thus do not unlock a Starship Trait.Oh and they don't come with the damn console either or the skins of the other variants or weapons that can be upgraded or the Leeta BOff"
They should put a massive disclaimer in all caps, that basically says:
DISCLAIMER:
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH A 5TH MASTERY TRAIT, DO NOT HAVE A UNIQUE CONSOLE, AND DO NOT HAVE FREE ACCESS TO RELATED C-STORE SHIP SKINS YOU HAVE NOT PURCHASED.
- FLEET SHIPS ARE SINGLE-CHARACTER UNLOCKS. YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THE SAME PRICE AGAIN SHOULD YOU DISCHARGE A FLEET SHIP.
- PURCHASING A FLEET SHIP ON ONE CHARACTER DOES NOT DISCOUNT FLEET SHIP PURCHASES ON ANOTHER CHARACTER OF THE SAME ACCOUNT.
- FLEET SHIPS REQUIRE BEING A MEMBER OF A FLEET WITH THE APPROPRIATE FACILITIES CONSTRUCTED.
- FLEET SHIPS REQUIRE PURCHASING RIGHTS FROM THE FLEET YOU JOINED.
- WE LEAVE FLEET PURCHASING RIGHTS HANDLING TO THE FLEET LEADERS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH UNIQUE WEAPONS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH BRIDGE OFFICERS.
- FLEET SHIPS DO NOT COME WITH UNIQUE BRIDGE INTERIORS.
- WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR REQUIRED TO RESPOND TO CLAIMS OF FALSE ADVERTISEMENT DUE TO READING COMPREHENSION FAILURE.
- ASSUME LISTED STATS ARE FINAL. IF IT'S NOT LISTED, IT LIKELY DOESN'T HAVE IT ON RELEASE.
- ALL LISTED STATS AND EQUIPMENT ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE, AND WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER RELEASE.
What else have I missed that's been endlessly argued as far as Fleet ships go?
OP I guess you NEVER read what came with the Fleet versions or what the C-store versions have. If you had actaully read either the summary or the specs you would have known that fleet ships do not come with the console or trait. So instead of ranting against the game you need to stop look in the mirror and say "Man I screwed up not reading things." It's YOUR FAULT you made the mistake not the games in this case.
It was always a money-making "trick." Things like this don't get done as a hobby project. The advice, which goes back perhaps as far as 1528, is caveat emptor: "let the buyer beware."
With all due respect to your good self, I believe they want a clown, a magician, and a pony--and two cakes.
I'm pretty sure some people will still ignore that or do/believe something stupid again ("I purchased a fleet ship, now my TRIBBLE is stuck in the dishwasher, Cryptic didn't warn me!").
-first buy the base ship
-then buy the fleet ship which is now at a DISCOUNTED price.
Sorry to disagree, but there can be very good reasons to do it. Each of my characters for example flies a different ship so I have no need to claim it multiple times. My Romulan main flies a T'Varo with both the Protonic Arsenal and the Counter-Command Ordnance set. Lots of bonus damage for photon torpedoes, so I have no use for the Plasma torpedo console of the Malem. I'm not interested in the costume or the starship trait either, so buying the fleet version outright gave me everything I wanted for 1000 Zen less than what I would have paid if I had bought the Malem first.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
With T6 variant ships rolling out, with new gimmicks all the time... Why wouldn't you buy an account unlock and not bother to buy a Fleet ship that's going to be obsoleted sooner or later?
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense to buy Fleet ships anymore. And even when it did, they were still a poor value at $25 for 4 FSM's.
The guy who bought a $20 T5 Defiant all those years ago has by now sunk $5 into a Fleet T5 version, paid the $ to bump it up to Fleet T5U, bought a T6 Valiant for $30, and along the way probably invested in a T6 Phantom for another $30 and $60 on a T6 Pilot bundle with or without Fleet upgrades. He should spend another $5 per character to buy Fleet Valiants after he already spent $5 per character per ship to upgrade the others?
The power creep and the variant train are now well-established features of the game and only the most obsessive, well-to-do, hardcore STO gamers should even think about buying a character-locked Fleet variant and even they might want to think twice.
I can't see myself ever buying a Fleet ship. Even the most cursory review of the stats will reveal that they get none of the gimmicks that the base C-Store ship got. That wee bit extra oomph? Can probably find more effective purchases for that. It's a status symbol, and an expensive one at that.
But if I do ever get one, it'll be at a discount because I already bought the C-Store version. On sale, most likely.
Lesson learned you won't do it again.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
Never had to buy 4 fsm's as I bought the C-store one first. Duh... Neither I have I actually spent real cash on a ship in two years yet I have all the fleet and t-6's I want. How? By grinding thats how so your wallet outrage is unfounded. But then again you sound like a wallet warrior so yeah keep spending that cash. Plus once you earn a trait from a c-store ship that trait CAN be used as well as the console that came with the c-store ship PLUS fleet versions have a higher number of hit points then C-store versions. So again you outrage is moot.