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[Guide] How Crit's and CritD work for Gravity Well + other "entity" based abilities/effects.
andyy22
Member Posts: 109 Arc User
Hi,
recently in reddit chat i did read this claim again:
tl;dr
- "entity" based abilities and effects like GW, TR, Vortex can crit and will apply CritD (even without Particle Manipulator)
- they don't calculate the crit per dmg tick, but once for the whole effect on the initial activation
- this means either all GW ticks deal normal dmg or on a crit all ticks deal critical damage applying your normal CritD values
("entity" as in: effects that after the initial activation are not tied to your ship anymore and do there "stuff" on there own)
So how to falsifie the above claim?
If true we should never see much higher GW tick damage, under controlled conditions. We would expect to always see GW deal damage close to the tooltip value. However if CritD is used, we expect to see much higher damage, depending on the CritD mod.
Test setup:
- using GW 1, while removing all traits/equip/specializations that can randomly change exotic GW damage (no Particle Manipulator trait slotted!)
- using as much CritD/CritH equip as we can get, so the difference becomes clearer
- using my own stable foundry "AE ability testmap" (KDF only, need enable "review maps", since it has not 5 reviews yet)
- using borg cubes + spheres as targets
- CritH is 23% and CritD 170%
- GW 1 lists 750 damage in the tooltip
Expectation:
- we only have a 1/5 chance to get a GW crit, so multiple tries/activation's should be needed to trigger a crit
- near the center GW1 should deal around 750 damage per tick to the cubes/spheres on a normal hit
- on a crit we expect 750 + (750 * 170%) = ~2000 damage near the center
Observations:
- [confirmed] on a normal hit we see 700-780 damage ticks on the "0 km" center cube we target
- [confirmed] after 4 tries, we get a critical and see the "(critical)" log message, while now always get around 2k damage ticks near the center
- [confirmed] we never see crit/none crit damage values mix after the initial calculation/activation
I hope this explains things a little. As far as i can remember this was identically to a test i did 7 months ago, so no this was not recently fixed/changed.
As a sidenote: Yes with maxed Graviton Generators ~460 you can indeed get a 20km GW! All the infos you find elsewhere base there dmg/range/pull on very old data, which is not accurate anymore! From my tests (using my testmap) you gain ~2 km range per 80-100 GravGens added, from the initial 3 km/1.5 km radius
bye
Andy
PS: If you like my "AE ability testmap" (KDF only) i could use some reviews so it gets out of the testpool!
UPDATE: Here are my test values, range is the diameter, so half for radius!
99 = 8 km
200 = 12 km
330 = 16 km
403 = 18 km
503 = 20 km
recently in reddit chat i did read this claim again:
Source LinkNow, why don't Gravity Well, Tyken's Rift, or Subspace Rupture crit? They do, but they don't apply CrtD. This is because of how they're coded.
tl;dr
- "entity" based abilities and effects like GW, TR, Vortex can crit and will apply CritD (even without Particle Manipulator)
- they don't calculate the crit per dmg tick, but once for the whole effect on the initial activation
- this means either all GW ticks deal normal dmg or on a crit all ticks deal critical damage applying your normal CritD values
("entity" as in: effects that after the initial activation are not tied to your ship anymore and do there "stuff" on there own)
So how to falsifie the above claim?
If true we should never see much higher GW tick damage, under controlled conditions. We would expect to always see GW deal damage close to the tooltip value. However if CritD is used, we expect to see much higher damage, depending on the CritD mod.
Test setup:
- using GW 1, while removing all traits/equip/specializations that can randomly change exotic GW damage (no Particle Manipulator trait slotted!)
- using as much CritD/CritH equip as we can get, so the difference becomes clearer
- using my own stable foundry "AE ability testmap" (KDF only, need enable "review maps", since it has not 5 reviews yet)
- using borg cubes + spheres as targets
- CritH is 23% and CritD 170%
- GW 1 lists 750 damage in the tooltip
Expectation:
- we only have a 1/5 chance to get a GW crit, so multiple tries/activation's should be needed to trigger a crit
- near the center GW1 should deal around 750 damage per tick to the cubes/spheres on a normal hit
- on a crit we expect 750 + (750 * 170%) = ~2000 damage near the center
Observations:
- [confirmed] on a normal hit we see 700-780 damage ticks on the "0 km" center cube we target
- [confirmed] after 4 tries, we get a critical and see the "(critical)" log message, while now always get around 2k damage ticks near the center
- [confirmed] we never see crit/none crit damage values mix after the initial calculation/activation
I hope this explains things a little. As far as i can remember this was identically to a test i did 7 months ago, so no this was not recently fixed/changed.
As a sidenote: Yes with maxed Graviton Generators ~460 you can indeed get a 20km GW! All the infos you find elsewhere base there dmg/range/pull on very old data, which is not accurate anymore! From my tests (using my testmap) you gain ~2 km range per 80-100 GravGens added, from the initial 3 km/1.5 km radius
bye
Andy
PS: If you like my "AE ability testmap" (KDF only) i could use some reviews so it gets out of the testpool!
UPDATE: Here are my test values, range is the diameter, so half for radius!
99 = 8 km
200 = 12 km
330 = 16 km
403 = 18 km
503 = 20 km
Post edited by andyy22 on
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Comments
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
The consoles with PrtG increase GW's damage. The pull is modified by Gravgens.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
So 500+ prtg with 300+ gravens.
Don't forget the stacking dmg bonus those new consoles also add to our lovely GW damage
So join the 20km GW club for the lulz!
100 Partgen buff the damage by ~12%. (It does not scale well)
and
100 Gravgen buff the range by ~50% (100/(120/2*3)) (pretty good)
?
How?. What is the console name?
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3v0xtr/star_trek_online_winter_event_ship/
More precise link: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3v0xtr/star_trek_online_winter_event_ship/cxjm4id
Yeah thats strange, will try to ask him about it next time he drops in our chat, since i don't think my tests are flawed and anyone can easily repeat them.
Should be: 750 + 170% = 2025
Or: 750 + (750 * 1.7) = 2025
Appreciate the testing and sharing of results.
Yeah sorry, that's how i learned to increase/decrease a number by a given % in excel, (number * (1+ %value)). I just write out the (1+) as (100% + %value). I guess that's because you only need one cell reference in this form. (fixed in Op)