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Thoughts from an Artist/Designer (Jupiter)
kirahitomi
Member Posts: 144 Arc User
Merely the thoughts and questions on the mind of an outside artist and designer...
On the subject of the design we voted for-
Being an artist and designer my experiences with moving an item from concept to reality have shown me that you refine as you progress but you keep certain things core to the design as a whole. That being said I voted Omega because of the appeal and it appeared to be the most carrier like. Long, streamlined, looking like it could launch ships from multiple levels in all directions it was strong yet elegant. Having been in the Navy and having served on a carrier the design appealed to me highly.
As things progressed it appeared you nixed several ideas that looked apparent on the design but overall the core appeal and silhouette remained. Silhouettes have always been a major thing in Star Trek, you may not know an individual ships name, but you can instantly tell its class and intended role solely on its silhouette.
This ship had a beautiful silhouette through the entire design process and I so looked forward to this ship but then you guys pulled a Schrodinger. It was and it wasn't... You killed the silhouette. When you changed the nacelles and altered the saucer section. You took that strong streamlined carrier silhouette which had remained through the entire process and broke it clean in half. The saucer changes were subtle and would have been tolerable had they been the only thing but the complete change of warp nacelles... This is no longer the ship I voted for and it wasn't the result of something the community voted on, it was because you changed something we voted on.
We voted on that design and you changed it. We didn't vote on a nacelle change, we voted on something that matched the designs we were presented. The silhouette, that was the only thing we really had any surety on and you guys changed it.
On the subject of the build itself-
I figured it was going to be sci/eng heavy but intel? Intel doesn't make any sense, a huge carrier shouldn't have bridge officer skills related to stealth and covert ops. A modern day Nimitz-class carrier has all the stealth and subtly of using a cannon ball to kill a mosquito, Command would have made 100x more sense from a role perspective.
The pets... We were expecting something in line with most other carriers with it being able to launch frigates/escorts; wings of Defiants or Sabers maybe. Nope, ok... but why the poorly kitbashed Aquarius instead? Anyone else scratching their head? Seems kind of counterintuitive, if your not going to introduce something new for the hanger pet or give us access to direct frigates/escorts then why give us the Aquarius carbon copy instead of just the Aquarius itself? Seems like a poor time and resource expenditure.
My thoughts on the ship trait are too harsh to comment on here, suffice it to say it doesn't sound like something the Federation would widely sanction.
Final thoughts-
While I do appreciate the attempt to get the community involved in designing a ship in some way other then a design your own contest, I feel too many changes were made you took too many liberties on something we voted on.
On the subject of the design we voted for-
Being an artist and designer my experiences with moving an item from concept to reality have shown me that you refine as you progress but you keep certain things core to the design as a whole. That being said I voted Omega because of the appeal and it appeared to be the most carrier like. Long, streamlined, looking like it could launch ships from multiple levels in all directions it was strong yet elegant. Having been in the Navy and having served on a carrier the design appealed to me highly.
As things progressed it appeared you nixed several ideas that looked apparent on the design but overall the core appeal and silhouette remained. Silhouettes have always been a major thing in Star Trek, you may not know an individual ships name, but you can instantly tell its class and intended role solely on its silhouette.
This ship had a beautiful silhouette through the entire design process and I so looked forward to this ship but then you guys pulled a Schrodinger. It was and it wasn't... You killed the silhouette. When you changed the nacelles and altered the saucer section. You took that strong streamlined carrier silhouette which had remained through the entire process and broke it clean in half. The saucer changes were subtle and would have been tolerable had they been the only thing but the complete change of warp nacelles... This is no longer the ship I voted for and it wasn't the result of something the community voted on, it was because you changed something we voted on.
We voted on that design and you changed it. We didn't vote on a nacelle change, we voted on something that matched the designs we were presented. The silhouette, that was the only thing we really had any surety on and you guys changed it.
On the subject of the build itself-
I figured it was going to be sci/eng heavy but intel? Intel doesn't make any sense, a huge carrier shouldn't have bridge officer skills related to stealth and covert ops. A modern day Nimitz-class carrier has all the stealth and subtly of using a cannon ball to kill a mosquito, Command would have made 100x more sense from a role perspective.
The pets... We were expecting something in line with most other carriers with it being able to launch frigates/escorts; wings of Defiants or Sabers maybe. Nope, ok... but why the poorly kitbashed Aquarius instead? Anyone else scratching their head? Seems kind of counterintuitive, if your not going to introduce something new for the hanger pet or give us access to direct frigates/escorts then why give us the Aquarius carbon copy instead of just the Aquarius itself? Seems like a poor time and resource expenditure.
My thoughts on the ship trait are too harsh to comment on here, suffice it to say it doesn't sound like something the Federation would widely sanction.
Final thoughts-
While I do appreciate the attempt to get the community involved in designing a ship in some way other then a design your own contest, I feel too many changes were made you took too many liberties on something we voted on.
"Lets see what this button does..."
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I'm liking what I'm seeing here...
(EDIT: The ship, that is...)
I personally voted for Alpha, as the nacelles weren't as vulnerable being closer to the hull.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
People see things that may or may not be then when voting. And if it was there, it may or may not translate to the final product. Such is a well know fact of life and this type of project generally ignores that.
I also agree that Intel is a very poor choice for a carrier, but I imagine they wanted that to go with their trait selection. This carrier should have came with a new Specialization- Carrier Group Command. But no.
Odd how they thought that trait was the best option, it frankly doesn't make much sense. Instead they could have given it's pets the ability to avoid warp core explosions and this carrier (and others after earning the trait) something that would have made fighter valid in the game and away from the era of frigates being the only worthwhile pets. But no.
I didn't expect any better. And we have gotten something exactly in line with most Cryptic releases in this game.
Just as well. I'm still happily flying my T5U Excelsior and will continue to do so.
I wouldn't mind the rounded shape if they weren't the cut in half style like the patrol escorts have. That is my only qualm.
Design-wise
The final product I'm seeing on those screenshots seems too sleek and streamlined. I'll venture into assuming that most people that voted for 'Omega' voted because of the 'Jupiter', however the final design lacks the roughness, ruggedness and in lack of better wording - ugliness of the original Jupiter. You know, that special kind of ugly that grows on you in time? The underside of this new design seems too smooth and too streamlined for my taste and for what I had expected, plus it lacks some of the vertical volume that adds to the menacing factor of the ship.
If not for the size what I expect to be very large, when you look at this ship from different angles and even more so from the sides it looks more like an escort-type ship, especially looking at it as standalone on those screenshots.
The lack of windows. This was the very first thing I noticed - there are very few windows on this, what is supposed to be a huge ship with 2300 regular crew, and there are literally no windows on the underside at all. I don't like that. Back in the day when I bought the Atrox carrier, aside from being a fan of the Ferasans & Caitians in-game, I got it because of how breathtakingly beautiful it looks with all those windows - it really gives a sense of scale and radiates with a huge ship/carrier vibe.
Last but not least - the nacelle size is too big for my taste and IMHO too big to do the ship any service. I'm not sure what's the deal with Cryptic's designers and the ridiculously long and huge nacelles as of late is, but it the case of this particular design and ship class I feel their size takes away the focus from the main hull - which should be the main element in the case of a Jupiter Class ship, especially if you consider the old 'archaic' design. I feel that the smaller size of the nacelles on that old design emphasized the main hull section in all it's size, which I've always felt is the proper way to go about it.
Layout-wise
Sorry, but having 'intel' makes no sense to me - especially considering their (Cryptic's) original iteration of 'intel' in STO. The original batch of intel ships were sufficiently unique looking and all that was explained over and over and over again (because of lots of initial complaints about those designs) by the ship designers themselves - the explanation being that that particular profile of ship utilizes stealth and speed for reconnaissance, therefore the hull is inspired from current stealth craft as they're supposed to be hard to detect and work 'behind enemy lines', yadda, yadda......and now we have this on a friggin' carrier? Give me a break, this had 'command' written all over it. I've been with this game for more almost 5 years now and still at times I'm baffled by some decisions Cryptic makes even if I should know better. It's a huge friggin' carrier, it's the centerpiece of the fleet, it's supposed to be the command ship.
In adition, I don't really see the point of this one having Cmdr.Science Boff seat. One can argue that this particular role/playstyle is already covered by the Atrox and even by the Breen Sarr Theln which is/was freely accessible to everyone. The Jupiter should have always had the Cmdr. Boff station as Engineering in my mind, but that's just me.
Nacelles have been "long and huge" on fed cruisers, and ships like them since the Excelsior was introduced decades ago, The nacelles actually are smaller than they should be. They should be as long or longer than the saucer, and thicker.
I think I'm gonna pass on the Jupiter, the only thing that appeals to me is the Comm Science station, but I'm not liking that it has a Lt. tact station when it should be Lt. Comm and the Lt. Comm ENG/Intel station should be Comm ENG.
ENG, Sci and Tact should all have equal say in Carriers instead of leaning more towards one career over the other 2. We have ships intended for one class and hybrid ships like the Multi-Mission and Dyson Science Destroyers with varying console layouts to suit each classes strength. But we don't have a ship in which all 3 classes are on equal footing and can still take advantage of the ships primary features.
I want a ship that offers alittle bit of everything packed into one ship, not one ship that caters to one feature with varying console layouts.
Then again, that would cause balancing issues.
Its about as Intel as the Guardian Cruiser. Doesn't look like it has the Intel ship mechanics.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
And the console looks like a good one for group action. Combine that with the Steamrunner's Team Fortress console and you got beefy friends.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Look, I'm not talking about canon Star Trek, but rather in terms of STO. In Star Trek canon this type of ship would not even exist in Starfleet's lineup, so we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Now lately, in-game, quite a few Federation T6 ships have been "graced" with huge nacelles that look awkward and disproportional IMHO. Take the T6 Excelsior for example - the classic Excelsior really does have big and very long nacelles, but the T6 one...WTH is that? It just looks so awkward with it's small saucer/chevron and those huge-TRIBBLE nacelles. Same can be said about the Hestia and even the Command Cruisers although there is one set of nacelles which looks fine and proportional to the rest of the ship. That's where my comment originated from.
And in all honesty, if we're going to go by canon which often contradicts itself - then the reason the Galaxy class has smaller and more compact nacelles compared to her predecessors is because of evolution in technology that enabled the nacelles to be smaller and give out more power and performance at the same time. So one can argue that having smaller nacelles is the way to go because of technological evolution. But it's a moot point, since like I said - even canon contradicts itself.
Back to the point about this particular design and why I said what I said. Firstly, I'm using the old Jupiter as a starting point since I consider people's affection for that ship to be what mainly contributed for the Omega winning the design contest. And one of the main elements of that old Jupiter are the four smallish nacelles that are disproportional to the main hull but in the opposite direction - which in the case with this ship felt right to me because it really emphasized the size of the main hull as it should for what is supposed to be a huge, slow, carrier-type ship and gave it a certain ominous look that would fit her role, as well as a lot of vertical volume, both of which are lacking on the new ship. I personally find that having the nacelles the size they seem to be (still have to see it in game to be sure first) takes away from the feeling of scale on the main hull and that carrier vibe.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad looking ship and I can't claim either way before I see it in the game, what I'm saying is that the final design has quite a few departures from the original design that made people vote so much for the Omega design in the first place.