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One year ago today, DR hit.
voporak
Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
in PvP Gameplay
It's a memorable day, guys. We're a whole year into the dark ages! And I have a few questions just for record keeping's sake, since we can look back and analyze.
1. Does anyone here still PvP at all? In any way?
2. Can we say definitively that Delta Rising independently brought down PvP, or was it just the final straw in the Gekofication process?
Some of you may also be aware of the general consensus that DR marked the fatal blow to Vanilla PvP, making today also the day that we more or less lost that. If you don't remember, activity died down due to the inability to disable Specialization points. We (the VPvP leadership) could not come to a resolution on this matter. For the record though, given the hike on their cost in grinding many months ago, I would disallow their usage in the channel were anyone still playing in it.
But for those to whom it applies:
3. Would you play VPvP today under the same rules if it were active, despite the unremovable and unbalancing abilities added to the game?
4. And for the people who argued against VPvP on the grounds that it was somehow bad for the game, do you still think it hurt PvP overall?
I know I might be igniting a... heated discussion, but I'm curious and I want to be reasonable. And yes, I'm serious, if you did or still do dislike/very much hate VPvP, I'm open to a *calm* and *friendly* chat as to why.
1. Does anyone here still PvP at all? In any way?
2. Can we say definitively that Delta Rising independently brought down PvP, or was it just the final straw in the Gekofication process?
Some of you may also be aware of the general consensus that DR marked the fatal blow to Vanilla PvP, making today also the day that we more or less lost that. If you don't remember, activity died down due to the inability to disable Specialization points. We (the VPvP leadership) could not come to a resolution on this matter. For the record though, given the hike on their cost in grinding many months ago, I would disallow their usage in the channel were anyone still playing in it.
But for those to whom it applies:
3. Would you play VPvP today under the same rules if it were active, despite the unremovable and unbalancing abilities added to the game?
4. And for the people who argued against VPvP on the grounds that it was somehow bad for the game, do you still think it hurt PvP overall?
I know I might be igniting a... heated discussion, but I'm curious and I want to be reasonable. And yes, I'm serious, if you did or still do dislike/very much hate VPvP, I'm open to a *calm* and *friendly* chat as to why.
I ask nothing but that you remember me.
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to make it short: to me dr just was the last coffin in a long row of coffins. it all subliminally started with s6 and fleetgear/-ships (though until s7 this wasn't that much of a problem, at least because it took a long time to build it all up).
some say even before, with the unlocking of t3 c-store consoles as usable by any ship.
last pvp for me i guess was a couple o'months ago in kerrat. anytime now, when i may get myself to q up there's the one word that crosses my mind: immunities. and so i step back. it's ok to me to get blown up by someone with a good build/"skill"(in nowadays environment no one needs anymore skill! skill only makes it worse!), but not being able to fight back, without any spotable effect.... yeah: just nope!
if there'll ever be any vanilla presets or such i'm all for it, but really: who would bet on meeeh?
I wish the SW: Battlefront Beta had lasted longer. That was fun.
Lol, Just Dance 2016 is just around the corner.
2. More final straw. But it was a very big straw.
3. No. I don't find PvP in this game fun. Even with conditions. Even blocking out most stuff, I'd still have to keep track of so many new things. Plus it's not worth the hassle of getting people to agree on anything.
Yes, i stopped to play STO with DR release
VPVP was great! My 5 toons still lvl 50 equiped for vpvp , no specialization points.
I will like to install sto and play again vpvp, but vs players with no sp.points, new items or abilities.
Cronos
Yes and it seems the most balanced its been in years. Had a lot of fun in my fleet recently with PvP. We started PvP back up a few months back.
" 2. Can we say definitively that Delta Rising independently brought down PvP, or was it just the final straw in the Gekofication process?"
Command Powers, command ships and defense platforms really brought PvP back for us. Lots of new team work tactics evolved out from that. Not sure if the command stuff was DR or after? But for us command was when PvP got fixed and made decent again.
good to hear at least some seem to enjoy what from my pov rather is a mess. though, i assume u guys are kinda maxed out? stuff, gear, ships, u know: real options? (i won't start with immunities and such here, may just is a question of taste...)
i only ask 'cause back in the day it was possible to participate with, what today would be called weak in the best. things like blue mk xi consoles and such. ships u got for free and so on...
the entry point has been low, the need of skill and knowledge high. in todays environment to me it seems to be the other way round, while knowledge seem to make it even worse.
so, back to my pov: i don't think that such is a healthy condition for any pvp-environment.
though, as said: good to hear some can enjoy
well, teamwork always was and will be op, won't it? i'm more in the premade corner (as in the pugger one as well: teamwork is op
i don't think you're talking about premade fights, do you? some fleeties without a 5-man setup running into some others of course can be fun.
though i guess in a pug/fleetmade against one of the sharped out premades won't be that much fun (when i started f.e. the outcome not necessarily was set before, but it became harder and harder with every season/bug/"feature").
there're growing possibilities for premade setups, sure, but most of them are tied to a mountain of ressources nowadays. and some of 'em are kinda unbeatable, even more if practiced by a top team.
kinda same ressource-wise goes for lonely pugger: u have to be competitive in at least some kind of way, otherwise there won't be that much fun i guess.
i think it just should be balanced on every level, no matter if lonely pug(-made), fleetmade or premade. and i just don't see that, with a declining tendency referring to balance since the change for universal cons/fleetgear and ships/lor and, of course, the final clou:dr.
only wanted to express my point. no offence, enjoy
Has it been that short? I stopped playing STO completely when DR hit and it feels like more than just a year.
1) Nope. I tried grinding to re-equip my healers with top of the line gear (read: getting back to where I was), but the grind was WAY too much for little benefit.
2) I'd say it's the final straw. A lot of people were disenfranchised with the PvP changes since LoR came out, and the fact that the PvP landscape had been changed since then. DR then put the nail in the coffin by introducing those godawful untested Intel skills and making some of them uncounterable.
3) No. Spec points need to have the option to be disabled before I rejoin any kind of PvP.
4) VPvP is just another type of PvP in my eyes. Whether you want to play by DR's rules, or by T5U rules, or by VPvP rules, doesn't matter to me, just as long as everyone gets along and has a great time. The fact that DR made it so you can't play any type of PvP before DR is ridiculous and needs to be changed. I doubt the Devs will do anything about it though.
Side note: Are people still playing in T5U-PVP channel?
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PvP has been on the way down basically when the first Refits and universal consoles hit the game. Maybe even earlier, when Cryptic added the first set items. And it couldn't recover because nothing was added in so many years, so little was ever balanced for PvP.
And, no one should kid themselves. The devs may have once had hope that they'd go back to "fix" PvP, but I think that just won't happen. There is no marketing/money-making concept for it, and even if there was, it would be a big risk compared to all the other things Cryptic could do.
It seems more likely it will go the way of Exploration then anything else. Except that removing it is probably more work than leaving it in, with little to gain, since there are only 6 maps or so, compared to the hundreds of maps in the exploration system.
Which is probably good news, overall, since it means that even if very few people still enjoy or engage in PvP, they can keep doing so for the forseeable future.
Hmm. That gives Cryptic another reason to not fire Geko, since you're obviously a returning costumer they'd lose if Geko were to go.
Pretty much this. There were three times PvP took a nose dive in quality. F2P, LOR and DR. It's been getting worse and worse for a long time, we just put up with it until now, where it's gotten to the point it's virtually unplayable.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Let's not rewrite history just yet.
PvP was perfectly fine and even with best balance around season 8, 8.5 all the way up to and including s9.
PvP population was big, diverse and feisty.
LoR brought entire new faction with very specific gameplay. Many PvPers returned and stayed when LoR was released.
Right before LoR, in season 5 and 6 there was almost the same level of BS infestation like after R&D revamp and DR.
Namely constant broken TBR, broken klingon pets, broken APD abuse, broken human boffs, broken borg set etc.
I remember queueing for FvK every night and being forced to play vs full KDF teams with only one player and 3 leechers in team.
Yeah, LoR killed KDF faction for short period, but that was all.
But yeah, I'll have to agree with @bwemo here. Dead horse.
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The other aspect of it is that this has just been my view of how it would have to come out if it ever did come out. I would basically from what sector space does/looks like that there would be what we have now as a pve overlay and then a pvp one and the pvp one would dictate what map(s) would be on pvp at any given time. Some of the draw backs to this idea is that the core worlds have never been built up(built at all). Another part would be where you log out a character would be where it is stationed something roughly can be easily done with tech they have you could just change it where you need to and make things where you park characters at like security officer for contraband you could do anywhere(it would give the game some more sense of immersion atleast).
Yeah but most of you are correct that it is dead and nothing will ever change that unless someone who has the ear of people who will fund it that it will make money. Which I would go the cosmetic route selling things that don't come off as pay 2 win but rather pay 2 look good and give it that fashion trek online thing the kids go crazy over these days. I just find it amusing though how this one game I play they make atleast 5-20 dollars a month selling pvp related cosmetic stuff or new stat setups that are balanced with the other types out there and they aren't really expensive at all the setups roughly translate into maybe like 5 cents. In this game atleast half the players are doing all this so in retrospect I would wager the whole KDF all 18% of us that they make more money than all of cryptic does in a year just from pvp related sales. Then we get to talking like this about how everyone is in agreement that they will never develop pvp any farther than it launched from and that in the long run they turned down thousands of potential profits just from cosmetics lol. It does make me wonder sometimes how people can say no to more money especially a corporation heh.
Enjoy my wall it is made of cheesy text.
And now take a wild guess as to when DR launched.
I wonder who flicked the switch for "We are now going to focus only on designing expensive, entirely new PvE content (that becomes very boring very fast) because that is what the "majority" of players want and that's what will make us money!"