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(WIP) Trying to build a B'rel torp boat; input welcome
stofsk
Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
In anticipation of the T6 B'rel's imminent release (not that I'm holding my breath or anything :V ) I've taken a look at my T5 B'rel and I am trying to do something with it. But for whatever reason I'm not having nearly enough success with it as my other torp boats - KDF reman TAC in a Faeht and Fed sci in a Pathfinder (one's more a torp boat with sci magic for control rather than damage, while the other's a partgen + torp hybrid).
This character's a SCI, so maybe that's half the problem right there but I was hoping sensor scan would make up for the lack of attack pattern alpha.
To make things even more challenging, I wanted to make the torps photons solely for Reasons.
Sci Commander: sci team 1, hazard 2, GW1, Tyken's Rift 3 (changed to ES2 in place of GW1)
Tried putting Tachyon Beam 3 in the LTC slot, spent about 150k to buy the training manual :V but man it didn't impress me
Tac LTC: Tac team 1, mine distribution pattern beta 1, Torp high yield 3
Tac LT: Tac team 1, torp high yield 2
Eng LT: EPtAux1, Aux2SIF1
Weapons: Four photorp launchers up front, one photon mine in the back with the tractor mines
Consoles: nothing special, regular photorp tac consoles. Don't have the FC for Spire consoles, but I'm aiming to get them in the future. I'll probably get the exploiter ones to stack CrtD as highly as I can.
Universal consoles: tachyokinetic converter, borg console, isometric charge console (I want this to work)
Traits: kinetic precision, particle manipulator, omega shearing, the CrtH and CrtD ones and the aux power to offence and defence ones. Also, I've got overwhelming force but it's... goddamn worthless. Has anyone made this work?
Specialisations: 3 points into Intel but I've got 13 banked because I hadn't finalised a build for this character and also I have no idea what spec the T6 B'rel will have so I've been saving up until that is known. I'm open for suggestions here.
Doffs: 3 purple PWOs (I think this is overkill with photorps but I'll need to experiment further, and both the gravimetric and enhanced bio are on 8 sec cooldowns so when I get them I'll probably find these doffs are still useful), a blue gravimetric scientist but that's if I use Grav Well, and I'm inclined to use Tyken's instead. So this is a bit up in the air. Probably put in 2 deflector doffs to replace the gravimetric scientist (I don't have the 6th doff roster slot from the Spire yet; again, open to suggestions).
Observations
-The inability of tachyon beam 3 to drain a single shield facing disappointed me despite my having maxed out my flow caps skill for plasmonic leech (previous build that utilised leech for energy weapon damage, obviously it's worthless here). I could stack my sci consoles with flow caps but I suspect they'd only see a middling improvement. Lack of secondary deflector means no way to impart deteriorating rad DoT either. Only use as far as I see is for proccing deflector doffs to reduce the cooldown on Tyken's.
-Likewise, the shared cooldown between TR and GW is almost a pick one or the other dilemma. I'd rather try to make Tyken's work because the other two torp boat characters I've got have GW and I kinda want to do something different. Tyken's can drain power from enemy target's shields which stands to make them fail altogether. I'm also thinking of subbing energy siphon as a self-buff but also to work in concert with Tyken's.
-Photorps don't seem as effective as PEP, generic plasma for shield-bypassing DoT, or hell even transphasics way back when I was first trying out torp boats. That said, Omega shearing seems to be a good trait so I think I'll keep going.
-Photon mines seem pretty meh.
-But as meh as they are, tractor mines are somehow worse. They've got some utility in holding onto freighters in pi canis sorties (which is important to me because I like to do Pi Canis sorties when I feel like soloing), but I'm either not using them right or they're just unworkable to begin with.
-I played around with the nukara mines in the past, so perhaps if I commit to a mine it'll be this one.
-I don't have them but I am definitely getting both the gravimetric photorp and the enhanced biomolecular torp. The latter has made me also think that maybe I should focus on radiation damage as this character's twist vs the other characters who are mechanically different, so maybe I'll get biomolecular photorps from the rep store to fill out the other forward weapon slots and maybe get a hargh'peng as well to replace the tractor mines.
-I lack attack patterns so perhaps what I'll consider is an attack pattern beta 1 duo and take out one of the tac teams for high yield or spread 1. Mines don't seem to be doing anything for me.
-When it works, this build works great: EPtAux 1 on approach, orient towards target's flank, energy siphon for the self-buff but also to soften a target for a follow-up Tyken's 3, sensor scan, high yield 3 fired at hopefully a target with shields offline, critting takes the target down a respectable amount of hp if not one-shotting it depending on target, while three purple PWOs chain fire the regular photorps until the target is dead.
-When it fails, I end up with a target the weathers the initial storm or whose shields stay up while I'm sitting in my B'rel wondering wtf do I do now. I keep firing photorps until Tyken's gets off cooldown and use that again and hopefully that's it. With the enhanced bio photorp and gravimetric I think this build can work.
This character's a SCI, so maybe that's half the problem right there but I was hoping sensor scan would make up for the lack of attack pattern alpha.
To make things even more challenging, I wanted to make the torps photons solely for Reasons.
Sci Commander: sci team 1, hazard 2, GW1, Tyken's Rift 3 (changed to ES2 in place of GW1)
Tried putting Tachyon Beam 3 in the LTC slot, spent about 150k to buy the training manual :V but man it didn't impress me
Tac LTC: Tac team 1, mine distribution pattern beta 1, Torp high yield 3
Tac LT: Tac team 1, torp high yield 2
Eng LT: EPtAux1, Aux2SIF1
Weapons: Four photorp launchers up front, one photon mine in the back with the tractor mines
Consoles: nothing special, regular photorp tac consoles. Don't have the FC for Spire consoles, but I'm aiming to get them in the future. I'll probably get the exploiter ones to stack CrtD as highly as I can.
Universal consoles: tachyokinetic converter, borg console, isometric charge console (I want this to work)
Traits: kinetic precision, particle manipulator, omega shearing, the CrtH and CrtD ones and the aux power to offence and defence ones. Also, I've got overwhelming force but it's... goddamn worthless. Has anyone made this work?
Specialisations: 3 points into Intel but I've got 13 banked because I hadn't finalised a build for this character and also I have no idea what spec the T6 B'rel will have so I've been saving up until that is known. I'm open for suggestions here.
Doffs: 3 purple PWOs (I think this is overkill with photorps but I'll need to experiment further, and both the gravimetric and enhanced bio are on 8 sec cooldowns so when I get them I'll probably find these doffs are still useful), a blue gravimetric scientist but that's if I use Grav Well, and I'm inclined to use Tyken's instead. So this is a bit up in the air. Probably put in 2 deflector doffs to replace the gravimetric scientist (I don't have the 6th doff roster slot from the Spire yet; again, open to suggestions).
Observations
-The inability of tachyon beam 3 to drain a single shield facing disappointed me despite my having maxed out my flow caps skill for plasmonic leech (previous build that utilised leech for energy weapon damage, obviously it's worthless here). I could stack my sci consoles with flow caps but I suspect they'd only see a middling improvement. Lack of secondary deflector means no way to impart deteriorating rad DoT either. Only use as far as I see is for proccing deflector doffs to reduce the cooldown on Tyken's.
-Likewise, the shared cooldown between TR and GW is almost a pick one or the other dilemma. I'd rather try to make Tyken's work because the other two torp boat characters I've got have GW and I kinda want to do something different. Tyken's can drain power from enemy target's shields which stands to make them fail altogether. I'm also thinking of subbing energy siphon as a self-buff but also to work in concert with Tyken's.
-Photorps don't seem as effective as PEP, generic plasma for shield-bypassing DoT, or hell even transphasics way back when I was first trying out torp boats. That said, Omega shearing seems to be a good trait so I think I'll keep going.
-Photon mines seem pretty meh.
-But as meh as they are, tractor mines are somehow worse. They've got some utility in holding onto freighters in pi canis sorties (which is important to me because I like to do Pi Canis sorties when I feel like soloing), but I'm either not using them right or they're just unworkable to begin with.
-I played around with the nukara mines in the past, so perhaps if I commit to a mine it'll be this one.
-I don't have them but I am definitely getting both the gravimetric photorp and the enhanced biomolecular torp. The latter has made me also think that maybe I should focus on radiation damage as this character's twist vs the other characters who are mechanically different, so maybe I'll get biomolecular photorps from the rep store to fill out the other forward weapon slots and maybe get a hargh'peng as well to replace the tractor mines.
-I lack attack patterns so perhaps what I'll consider is an attack pattern beta 1 duo and take out one of the tac teams for high yield or spread 1. Mines don't seem to be doing anything for me.
-When it works, this build works great: EPtAux 1 on approach, orient towards target's flank, energy siphon for the self-buff but also to soften a target for a follow-up Tyken's 3, sensor scan, high yield 3 fired at hopefully a target with shields offline, critting takes the target down a respectable amount of hp if not one-shotting it depending on target, while three purple PWOs chain fire the regular photorps until the target is dead.
-When it fails, I end up with a target the weathers the initial storm or whose shields stay up while I'm sitting in my B'rel wondering wtf do I do now. I keep firing photorps until Tyken's gets off cooldown and use that again and hopefully that's it. With the enhanced bio photorp and gravimetric I think this build can work.
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Comments
I've read that Tacs can boost damage to deal with shield resistance but when I've (I'm a Sci) used regular photons and not been able to drop shields it leads to a long dogfight. I'd suggest focus on shield-bypassing damage (plasma, radiation, etc). Too bad the Hargh'peng does not have an innate synergy bonus on Klingon ships. You can get some weapons as mission rewards. The 50% Shield Penetration Nukara Mines might do well on your build as a parting gift on your attack run. If you can drop shields photons, quantums, and a HY Enhanced Bio Molecular Torpedo can be deadly.
I have 9 points in Flow Caps, run full flowcaps on my go to Intrepid Torpedo boat build (no energy weapons used), run drain (Tachyon Beam), buff (Energy Siphon), and Tyken's Rift (also CPB), along with the Debilitating Secondary Deflector, and cannot drop shields on mid to larger NPC's in end game STF's in an Alpha strike or in two to three passes. This said, I prefer to use the powers because of the Alpha strike capability and the Secondary Deflector DoT.
TL;DR: My Sci powers rarely drop NPC's shields on their own; I would like my sci powers to drop shields.
I've used three Deflector cooldown doffs with aforementioned build to try to max Deflector power cd's. You could try DRB instead of a second deflector damage power, although it does not pair well with ships that move constantly; it is a better power for sit, point, and shoot flyers. I've been playing with PO and 2 Purple doffs (I min-maxed the suggested two blue or purple and green doff PO cd reduction doffs) to drop all boff cd's for the duration on another build and might integrate it into my Flow Cap/Deflector Doff/Debilitating Secondary Deflector Build.
I ran an all biomolecular photon torpedo build using specialty torpedoes and reputation prizes on the Dyson as I leveled up the Undine rep.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
:V
EDIT More seriously, I probably won't venture into PVP, so predominantly PVE.
There are days where it feels like PvP died a long, long time ago, then there are days where I feel like the Dev's be trollin' hardcore in this arms race of Immunities vs Insta-Nukes/Vapes. Very rarely is there a sweet spot where people are active in queues AND you get a competitive match. When you can enjoy losing because you lost to a better pilot, it's a good day.
As to your response, are you going to use the EBC (Enhanced Battle Cloak), or are you going in w/ torps launching and all weapons firing? Play style will influence the build heavily.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I've got a KDF reman in a Faeht who's rocking the EBC on that while gloriously shooting targets with plasma warheads, so the photorp thing is just to do it in a different flavour. EDIT Also that character is very much a tac shooting things to death with weapons, the LTC GW1 is just there to pin them for a TS3 salvo of PEP to ruin their day. This character is a sci so I'm aiming for it to be a more 50/50 share between torps and sci powers complementing each other.
I have little experience w/ the Science aspect (especially when using it under EBC conditions), so I cannot comment much on that aside from tossing out an idea or three. As to the torps/mines, I see many nasty things for your enemies w/ the following:
Enh Bio-Molecular
Neutronic
Nukara Web Mine
Vaadwaur Cluster Torp (Mine Deployment System)
Bio-Neural Warhead
For those really hard nuts to crack (and if you don't mind the buginess of it), the TDD is a gem.
What Starship Traits do you have to work with?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I'm eager to get the terran rep photorp as well but obviously that's quite a ways away.
All hands on deck is the only real starship trait that does anything for me. I have emergency weapon cycle (irrelevant), temporal insight (doesn't do anything related to torpedoes) and overwhelming force (pretty worthless as far as I can see for a torp boat).
I will eventually get the spec traits like pedal to the metal and whatever the intel one is. Got any suggestions? Probably can't break the bank though.
Overwhelming Force is damn nice when you start throwing HY's out like a Major League pitcher (baseball reference). It's damn nice in Korfez, HSx, heck, any map where you want a disable and scatter your enemies. If you have strong GravGens, toss a GWell, then HY-OF them w/ a HY Grav Torp..... the El oh El's is priceless!
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
How useful is the Temporal Disruption Device anyways? I've never seen it used before.
Also, is the tooltip on the PEP when spread is active wrong? Because with spread 3 it says that it only fires 1 torp per target, which wouldn't make any sense at all.
Cmd Sci: Sci Team 1, TSS 2, Resonance Beam 2, VM 3(swap for GW3 in PVE)
LtC Tac: Tac Team 1, THY 2, TS 3
Lt Eng: Eng Team, Aux2ID
Lt Sci: Hazard 1, something I don't remember
Fore weapons: Neutronic, Part Plasma, Enhanced Bio, Gravimetric
aft: Nukara mines, Breen cluster
It's not quite there yet, but what I currently have does alright enough in 50 ker'rat and it did break 10k to get me into the DPS league.
Very useful when you fly close AND it doesn't bug out.
The PEP tooltip needs to be fixed. PEP works for a nice slow and hazard that needs to be cleared. Even single-shot, it makes for a better slow than Chroniton's.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
How are pilot BOFF abilities for torp boats?
On a related matter I'm trying to decide whether to get the Fleet Faeht or the Fleet T'varo for my KDF reman. There the question is more pure intel vs pilot hybrid with plasma beach ball (so I'd probably settle for a plasma torp build if I go the T'varo vs probably a combination of torps for the Faeht).
EDIT Also, does anyone have any tips for using enhanced battle cloak? I notice the Faeht in particular feels very fragile like the defence bonus from the cloak doesn't work that often.
Heavy Torpedoes remain problematic in STO.
My Reman in a F'aeht has the Undine deflector with the HG engines and shields. (for that matter my Fed sci in a T6 Intrepid has the same) I was thinking though of the HG deflector. It has bonuses to flow caps (which helps my Tyken's) as well as particle gens but it has 8.8 to stealth. I'm wondering if this is worth giving up the bonus to projectile weapon damage from the undine deflector and the other benefits?
(I'm guessing no but if I don't ask I won't know)