First things which come to mind are:
- Why use an omni beam. Omni beams aren't particularly powerful to begin with and are wasted when not combined with other beam arrays.
- Why use a KCB and not the assimilated console. In this case the science plasma consoles are the least useful.
- Consider adding this http://sto.gamepedia.com/Heavy_Bio-Molecular_Phaser_Turret#Heavy_Bio-Molecular_Phaser_Turret
- You use cannon rapid fire which is effective against single targets, but in STF there is rarely a single target and due to the limited firing arc you need to spend time to acquire another target. Use CSF instead
- You're flying a pilot ship so why not use those pilot abilities to your advantage. Attack pattern Lambda, pilot team or ignite coolant can all be used to your advantage.
- You use a lot of copies of the same power (CRF), but why not throw in attack pattern beta or delta (get those mixed up all the time) to debuff your opponent.
Other than that it should be a simple matter to get in close and flank the NPC in such a nimble ship.
I would think that, based on him having BFAW1, he is using the Omni-Beam for fighter spam.
I agree about the four copies of CRF, bring them down to two and throw in Beta or Delta.
If he is using Aux to Damp for the turn rate, he could slot the trait Deft Cannoneer (for the turn rate) and exchange Aux to Damp for RSP or a hull heal. If it is for the speed, slot Pilot Team for the speed as well.
If he specifically mentions DPS then he's in ISA since that is the benchmark for DPS measurement. No fighters there.
Overall i feel it's a wasted slot especially when a heavy phaser turret could have been used there.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Why are we punished for using Cannons???? I have everything reccommended to be uber DPS, Epic Fleet CritD DMGx3 weapons, Epic RCS (EPS) with 2 EPS consoles, Plasmonic leech, the embassy plasma consoles, the embassy Romulan Boffs (Both of them) and of course the Fleet Vulnerability locators. I have the Iconian Shields and Engines (working in deflector), both omnibeams at epic and I cant reach 20k DPS. I dont understand it, I have everything that has been listed as the uber Build and yet im still beaten by beam boats. So frustrated.
There is nothing wrong with cannons. While they were the first Mega DPS build and even it's fallen out of favor for Beam DPS, they still are good in certain situations. But looks like your problem is that you're focused too much on making Beam DPS builds and not cannon DPS builds.
Yeah, I think the beams are a problem, I buy some heavy turrets from my fleet and see how that goes
Heavy turrets can only be found in undine reputation.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Actually, I'm curious as to why you have to break from continuity-consistent builds just to reach optimum, or even decent DPS/usefulness. I think that the devs should try to find some way to encourage people to use all weapon types on their ships, or at least not be punished for it.
Op. I just made a turret boat that hit 33k.
And could probably go higher.
Mind you turrets are 360' and a lot easier to use efficiently then cannon arcs.
Ps: I'm a god awful pilot, I don't take flanking or distance into consideration, I also fly with no keybinds.
If I can do it, you can too.
This.
I mean, sure... Your damage CAP is lower, but that is more than adequate damage for basically anything. It is possible to make a viable build out of anything if you are dedicated enough, AND as he said you can do it without any key binds. I don't key bind powers either. All clicking for me (though to be fair this causes me to die in PvP if I'm using an escort).
Don't let anyone convince you to play a build you don't personally enjoy using just because it performs better. I still use cannons on escorts because 7 beams flying off of my tiny ship just looks weird to me. Use what you find fun. Besides, making an effective build that's more outside of the box will make peoples' eyes explode from shock when they see it. : )
Hey op first of all thx 4 sharing your build, it doesn’t look bad at all (and I even would not want to encounter you in PvP necessarily). Don’t be scared by the amount of following text to put PvE DPS more on you agenda, you don’t seem to have much to do there.
That’s what I would do (and even in that prioritization):
1) Boff Powers.
Replace 2 copies of cannon rapid fire with 2 copies of cannon scatter volley. It out DPS rapid fire in pve and is strong enough to smash single pve targets. Also replace 2 copies of cannon rapid fire with attack patterns. Preferably Omega or Beta. See to it that every time you u hit cannon scatter volley you have 1 fresh attack pattern engaged before that. If you have 2 zemok doffs 1 AP Omega and 1 AP Beta is enough to bring them in sync with your two cannon scatter volley copies. If not three attack pattern copies would work too. I doubt you can make much use of fire at will. The kinetic cutter is not triggert by it and I would replace the phaser omni in your…
2) Gear:
You have a cool phaser cannon build going. Like pointed out we have the perfect countercommand weapons set available for it:
Replace your phaser omni with the turret and pick the console. The 2 pice set will boost phaser damage quiet a lot. All your EPS is fine and good but still for cannons any means to reduce the drain should be high on priority. You already have the kinetic cutter. Please integrate the Borg console as well. I found the 2 pice set drain resist more helpful than too much EPS in case of cannons:
Now you go with Pilot as primary and Intel as secondary. I probably would do the same in PvP but in PvE I heavily recommend to switch them to Intel Primary and Pilot Secondary. Two reasons. One is intel fleet captains ability. In the right moments of a match (many targets ahead or critical on time) it grands you and your team a substantial damage boost by making all the enemies weaker. The second reason is space flanking from intel tree. Every enemy in PvE has rear arcs (even cubes, spheres and gates from Cryptic’s understanding of geometry) If you shoot at your foe’s rear arc you will get a massive DPS boost. With a ship as fast as yours and cannons on top you will always have an advantage over others when using it. You’ll love it.
4) Traits:
Passive reput traits:
- Integrate Precision instead of Enhanced rendering shots. Think it works out better for sustained DPS.
- Consider Tactical Advantage as 5th. We found it quiet cool for big targets because of its "mini recluse" effect.
Active reput traits:
If you have them all, use them all.
Star ship traits:
I don’t think you need reciprocity under the former recommendations. You have more than enough tac slots to ensure global CD and you do not use intel. I also found to build uppon it to be a trap. May work well in weak teams but the moment other peeps out DPS you or you run with a dedicated PvE tank it won’t work out. Supremacy on the other hand is perfect. You will even make much better use of it when switching from cannon rapid fire to scatter volley. Ship traits are of course expensive or hard to come by but sadly the right ones grand a direct or indirect DPS increase. I’d consider the following (and in that order) in the long run:
- All hands on Deck: CD for sci and captains abilities
- Emergency Weapons Cycle: Reduced drain on your guns
- Greedy Emitters: Again drain resist for your 5 front DHCs
- Invincible: Cool to experiment with go down fighting
- Frontal Assault: quiet a park and shoot helper for cannons.
Don’t rush to get them. Cryptic will release more and better ones anyway, but the mentioned ones would defiantly boost your DPS.
5) Skill tree.
If you get around to a respect remove the critical stuff you have in torpedoes. Also I don’t think one needs as many points in tier 5 weapons and aux. Distribute them more into stuff like Structural Integrity, Shield systems, Driver coil, impulse thrusters, engine & shield performance, hull plating & armor (a bit).
Think that’s it for me. To give you a better idea I also share my cannon build. I’m quiet sure there are also numerous means to increase DPS in my case, yet it’s always a close catch what works in good teams vs. what works in bad groups. The demands to survive are simply higher in a pug. A bit of balance prevails here in my opinion since I want to be able to play with everybody. In short I would never trade save 40k pug DPS for save 70k gold channel DPS. I also found the most fittig grav wells are your own grav wells so I would not want to give them up either. Its just a dream team with cannon scatter voley.
I hope my advice helps you OP. If you like to teamup in game and smash a few Borg pleas hit me up. In my armada it does not matter if you do 10k or 75k and we especially found mixed teams to offer the greatest fun. Also, in my opinion, there is no greater fun in STO than to shredder Borg with a fency old fashion cannon build. Let BFAW be damned.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
First things which come to mind are:
- Why use an omni beam. Omni beams aren't particularly powerful to begin with and are wasted when not combined with other beam arrays.
- Why use a KCB and not the assimilated console. In this case the science plasma consoles are the least useful.
- Consider adding this http://sto.gamepedia.com/Heavy_Bio-Molecular_Phaser_Turret#Heavy_Bio-Molecular_Phaser_Turret
- You use cannon rapid fire which is effective against single targets, but in STF there is rarely a single target and due to the limited firing arc you need to spend time to acquire another target. Use CSF instead
- You're flying a pilot ship so why not use those pilot abilities to your advantage. Attack pattern Lambda, pilot team or ignite coolant can all be used to your advantage.
- You use a lot of copies of the same power (CRF), but why not throw in attack pattern beta or delta (get those mixed up all the time) to debuff your opponent.
Other than that it should be a simple matter to get in close and flank the NPC in such a nimble ship.
I would think that, based on him having BFAW1, he is using the Omni-Beam for fighter spam.
I agree about the four copies of CRF, bring them down to two and throw in Beta or Delta.
If he is using Aux to Damp for the turn rate, he could slot the trait Deft Cannoneer (for the turn rate) and exchange Aux to Damp for RSP or a hull heal. If it is for the speed, slot Pilot Team for the speed as well.
If he specifically mentions DPS then he's in ISA since that is the benchmark for DPS measurement. No fighters there.
Overall i feel it's a wasted slot especially when a heavy phaser turret could have been used there.
I don't disagree with the heavy phaser turret. I was theorizing an answer based your question of "Why use an omni beam" and his having one equipped on his build with BFAW1. ISA is just one of many missions, and while it would not be optimum for ISA, there are other missions where it could be of benefit.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Cannon Scatter Volley, way better skill!!!! Peter your reccomendations hit the nail on the head.
Glad to be of help.
Be proud to have such a strong cannon build for PvE, only few I know have. The fun and efficiency it delivers in the right moments out passes anything most faw spammers will ever experience.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Cannon Scatter Volley, way better skill!!!! Peter your reccomendations hit the nail on the head.
Glad to be of help.
Be proud to have such a strong cannon build for PvE, only few I know have. The fun and efficiency it delivers in the right moments out passes anything most faw spammers will ever experience.
Wielding cannon, beam and torpedo builds (and from time to time bomber builds) i can agree that cannon builds are IMO a lot more fun.
Just keep the strengths and weaknesses in mind.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Why are we punished for using Cannons???? I have everything reccommended to be uber DPS, Epic Fleet CritD DMGx3 weapons, Epic RCS (EPS) with 2 EPS consoles, Plasmonic leech, the embassy plasma consoles, the embassy Romulan Boffs (Both of them) and of course the Fleet Vulnerability locators. I have the Iconian Shields and Engines (working in deflector), both omnibeams at epic and I cant reach 20k DPS. I dont understand it, I have everything that has been listed as the uber Build and yet im still beaten by beam boats. So frustrated.
Sounds to me like you need to earn your pilot's license. One million megaton bombs are useless if they can't hit their target Vek.
Why are we punished for using Cannons???? I have everything reccommended to be uber DPS, Epic Fleet CritD DMGx3 weapons, Epic RCS (EPS) with 2 EPS consoles, Plasmonic leech, the embassy plasma consoles, the embassy Romulan Boffs (Both of them) and of course the Fleet Vulnerability locators. I have the Iconian Shields and Engines (working in deflector), both omnibeams at epic and I cant reach 20k DPS. I dont understand it, I have everything that has been listed as the uber Build and yet im still beaten by beam boats. So frustrated.
Sounds to me like you need to earn your pilot's license. One million megaton bombs are useless if they can't hit their target Vek.
It would have been useful to read beyond the OP.
Not only would you have known the discussion has moved beyond the point where you're at, but you could have contributed.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Loosing damage at range for beams makes sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_divergence
But Cannons. I read on memory alpha that phaser cannons were not supposed to loose damage at long distances.
Maybe it is time for cryptic to scratch the damage loss for cannons over distance and instead factor "distance to target" in the accuracy-defense hit miss calculation.
I think there is a good gameplay reason for dual cannons to have a strong range drop-off.
Dual Cannons have a low firing arc. But the further away you are from the target, the wider your field of fire and the less important the low firing arc actually is. The range drop off ensures that you want to be close, and thus have to actually deal with your low firing arc.
Sure, you could try to turn it into accuracy/defense thing based on distance, but it doesn't really seem as there really is the opportunity to scale this penalties as easily (and fairly) as damage drop off. It would, in short, likely not work as well.
Also, the end game would be the same, wouldn't it? Cannons being less effective at range. Why really bother with tweaking the mechanics here? If you think cannons need a buff, find something to buff them. Like improvements to CVS or CRF perhaps, if BFAW isn't going to get weakened in some form.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
If he specifically mentions DPS then he's in ISA since that is the benchmark for DPS measurement. No fighters there.
Overall i feel it's a wasted slot especially when a heavy phaser turret could have been used there.
There is nothing wrong with cannons. While they were the first Mega DPS build and even it's fallen out of favor for Beam DPS, they still are good in certain situations. But looks like your problem is that you're focused too much on making Beam DPS builds and not cannon DPS builds.
Heavy turrets can only be found in undine reputation.
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This.
I mean, sure... Your damage CAP is lower, but that is more than adequate damage for basically anything. It is possible to make a viable build out of anything if you are dedicated enough, AND as he said you can do it without any key binds. I don't key bind powers either. All clicking for me (though to be fair this causes me to die in PvP if I'm using an escort).
Don't let anyone convince you to play a build you don't personally enjoy using just because it performs better. I still use cannons on escorts because 7 beams flying off of my tiny ship just looks weird to me. Use what you find fun. Besides, making an effective build that's more outside of the box will make peoples' eyes explode from shock when they see it. : )
Hey op first of all thx 4 sharing your build, it doesn’t look bad at all (and I even would not want to encounter you in PvP necessarily). Don’t be scared by the amount of following text to put PvE DPS more on you agenda, you don’t seem to have much to do there.
That’s what I would do (and even in that prioritization):
1) Boff Powers.
Replace 2 copies of cannon rapid fire with 2 copies of cannon scatter volley. It out DPS rapid fire in pve and is strong enough to smash single pve targets. Also replace 2 copies of cannon rapid fire with attack patterns. Preferably Omega or Beta. See to it that every time you u hit cannon scatter volley you have 1 fresh attack pattern engaged before that. If you have 2 zemok doffs 1 AP Omega and 1 AP Beta is enough to bring them in sync with your two cannon scatter volley copies. If not three attack pattern copies would work too. I doubt you can make much use of fire at will. The kinetic cutter is not triggert by it and I would replace the phaser omni in your…
2) Gear:
You have a cool phaser cannon build going. Like pointed out we have the perfect countercommand weapons set available for it:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Counter_Command_Ordnance
Replace your phaser omni with the turret and pick the console. The 2 pice set will boost phaser damage quiet a lot. All your EPS is fine and good but still for cannons any means to reduce the drain should be high on priority. You already have the kinetic cutter. Please integrate the Borg console as well. I found the 2 pice set drain resist more helpful than too much EPS in case of cannons:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Omega_Adapted_Borg_Technology_Set
3) Specializations:
Now you go with Pilot as primary and Intel as secondary. I probably would do the same in PvP but in PvE I heavily recommend to switch them to Intel Primary and Pilot Secondary. Two reasons. One is intel fleet captains ability. In the right moments of a match (many targets ahead or critical on time) it grands you and your team a substantial damage boost by making all the enemies weaker. The second reason is space flanking from intel tree. Every enemy in PvE has rear arcs (even cubes, spheres and gates from Cryptic’s understanding of geometry) If you shoot at your foe’s rear arc you will get a massive DPS boost. With a ship as fast as yours and cannons on top you will always have an advantage over others when using it. You’ll love it.
4) Traits:
Passive reput traits:
- Integrate Precision instead of Enhanced rendering shots. Think it works out better for sustained DPS.
- Consider Tactical Advantage as 5th. We found it quiet cool for big targets because of its "mini recluse" effect.
Active reput traits:
If you have them all, use them all.
Star ship traits:
I don’t think you need reciprocity under the former recommendations. You have more than enough tac slots to ensure global CD and you do not use intel. I also found to build uppon it to be a trap. May work well in weak teams but the moment other peeps out DPS you or you run with a dedicated PvE tank it won’t work out. Supremacy on the other hand is perfect. You will even make much better use of it when switching from cannon rapid fire to scatter volley. Ship traits are of course expensive or hard to come by but sadly the right ones grand a direct or indirect DPS increase. I’d consider the following (and in that order) in the long run:
- All hands on Deck: CD for sci and captains abilities
- Emergency Weapons Cycle: Reduced drain on your guns
- Greedy Emitters: Again drain resist for your 5 front DHCs
- Invincible: Cool to experiment with go down fighting
- Frontal Assault: quiet a park and shoot helper for cannons.
Don’t rush to get them. Cryptic will release more and better ones anyway, but the mentioned ones would defiantly boost your DPS.
5) Skill tree.
If you get around to a respect remove the critical stuff you have in torpedoes. Also I don’t think one needs as many points in tier 5 weapons and aux. Distribute them more into stuff like Structural Integrity, Shield systems, Driver coil, impulse thrusters, engine & shield performance, hull plating & armor (a bit).
Think that’s it for me. To give you a better idea I also share my cannon build. I’m quiet sure there are also numerous means to increase DPS in my case, yet it’s always a close catch what works in good teams vs. what works in bad groups. The demands to survive are simply higher in a pug. A bit of balance prevails here in my opinion since I want to be able to play with everybody. In short I would never trade save 40k pug DPS for save 70k gold channel DPS. I also found the most fittig grav wells are your own grav wells so I would not want to give them up either. Its just a dream team with cannon scatter voley.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=neelasjhss_9361
I hope my advice helps you OP. If you like to teamup in game and smash a few Borg pleas hit me up. In my armada it does not matter if you do 10k or 75k and we especially found mixed teams to offer the greatest fun. Also, in my opinion, there is no greater fun in STO than to shredder Borg with a fency old fashion cannon build. Let BFAW be damned.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I don't disagree with the heavy phaser turret. I was theorizing an answer based your question of "Why use an omni beam" and his having one equipped on his build with BFAW1. ISA is just one of many missions, and while it would not be optimum for ISA, there are other missions where it could be of benefit.
Glad to be of help.
Be proud to have such a strong cannon build for PvE, only few I know have. The fun and efficiency it delivers in the right moments out passes anything most faw spammers will ever experience.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Wielding cannon, beam and torpedo builds (and from time to time bomber builds) i can agree that cannon builds are IMO a lot more fun.
Just keep the strengths and weaknesses in mind.
Sounds to me like you need to earn your pilot's license. One million megaton bombs are useless if they can't hit their target Vek.
It would have been useful to read beyond the OP.
Not only would you have known the discussion has moved beyond the point where you're at, but you could have contributed.
Dual Cannons have a low firing arc. But the further away you are from the target, the wider your field of fire and the less important the low firing arc actually is. The range drop off ensures that you want to be close, and thus have to actually deal with your low firing arc.
Sure, you could try to turn it into accuracy/defense thing based on distance, but it doesn't really seem as there really is the opportunity to scale this penalties as easily (and fairly) as damage drop off. It would, in short, likely not work as well.
Also, the end game would be the same, wouldn't it? Cannons being less effective at range. Why really bother with tweaking the mechanics here? If you think cannons need a buff, find something to buff them. Like improvements to CVS or CRF perhaps, if BFAW isn't going to get weakened in some form.