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MACO Shield vs Leech

Could the MACO shield proc be a suitable replacement for Plasmonic Leech (due to the console's high cost for Feds)?

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  • karlbarbkarlbarb Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    I use the MACO shield on my romulan character and I love it. As long as you're being fired upon, it's an easy 10 extra energy per system. While Plasmonic is definitely better for folks with decent flow caps, it's also a console slot that you can't use for something else.
  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    Its the poor man's version, back when the leech was pricey but not crazy expensive, people would get the maco shield and eventually save for the leech, often people were flying with the maco as the default 'best shield' anyway. This week the leech effectively costs 2k zen per fed - buy promo things and sell on exchange, currently 8 promo R&D boxes nets 80-88m, 2k is about 2 weeks worth of dil for a 4 toon account if each toon has a stash of dil. A 2 week save up isn't so bad.

    A rom kdf account can have it on all 4 toons for 1k, issue hits when buying KDF doffs - sometimes way cheaper than fed, sometimes way more expensive and sometimes so rare they're not on the exchange. Roms can't fly nicer kdf or fed ships.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    While the Maco shield provides a similar boost, you need to get shot at by enemies for it to trigger as opposed to being able to trigger the proc yourself. Not to mention that the Leech provides more energy, especially with fleet flowcap-consoles, which add further DPS on their own.

    So, calling it a replacement is only true for severely handicaped players (Feds with low EC-Reserves, since KDF gets it nearly for free. Yes 1k zen for such a device is by all means nearly free), as it pales in comparasion. Like postinggum said, poor mans version with more restrictions.​​
  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Could the MACO shield proc be a suitable replacement for Plasmonic Leech (due to the console's high cost for Feds)?

    No.

    I've run Leech; and currently run the MACO shield and Energy Siphon 2 (with all flowcaps in the sci console slots) to boost energy levels and proc the AMP core on my Sci torpedo boats. Neither either of them nor both in conjunction, should be compared to the Leech. It is too misleading, as there is no equivalence.

    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    MACO can work as a substitute for Plasmonic Leech. It's not as nice in providing power as P.Leech and it requires you to be constantly shot at. The moment someone else can pull that aggro off you, your MACO shield is pointless.
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  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    The best substitute for Leech, if you cannot afford Supremacy, would now simply be stacking as much power drain reduction and mitigation as you can.

    By this I mean Spire Cores, KCB + assimilated, Emergency Weapon Cycle (Arbiter etc.), maxing out Electro Plasma Systems (including consoles) and Bounty Hunter's Friend. This, combined with enough weapon power boosts (high level EptW, X->W when running an EptX, and especially OSS) will help your weapons stay capped.

    Leech is no longer the "OP Console" it once was as we have plenty of alternative, cheaper options.

    Unfortunately, MACO is a bad shield from a bad set, and its power conduit should not be considered here.
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  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    getting away from the topic slightly, why is Supremacy thrown around DPS discussions? It's only active when using BFAW or CRF ...
  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    DPSers have been spamming FAW for a long time.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2015
    karlbarb wrote: »
    I use the MACO shield on my romulan character and I love it. As long as you're being fired upon, it's an easy 10 extra energy per system. While Plasmonic is definitely better for folks with decent flow caps, it's also a console slot that you can't use for something else.

    If < 100 flow caps use MACO.
    ELSE use plasmonic leech.
    getting away from the topic slightly, why is Supremacy thrown around DPS discussions? It's only active when using BFAW or CRF ...

    I think you answered your own question as those two are the ones that they tend to have stuck on the spacebar.
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    getting away from the topic slightly, why is Supremacy thrown around DPS discussions? It's only active when using BFAW or CRF ...

    Well, very few dps'ers run CRF, SS, RRtW, or BO as a primary dps power, and the ones using THY/TS tend to not care about power levels. So for those of us using FAW/CSV, it's wonderful, and if you didn't know, stacks last long enough to be active constantly if you have your FAW/CSV on GCD.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

    Game's best wiki

    Build questions? Look here!
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    The best substitute for Leech, if you cannot afford Supremacy, would now simply be stacking as much power drain reduction and mitigation as you can.

    By this I mean Spire Cores, KCB + assimilated, Emergency Weapon Cycle (Arbiter etc.), maxing out Electro Plasma Systems (including consoles) and Bounty Hunter's Friend. This, combined with enough weapon power boosts (high level EptW, X->W when running an EptX, and especially OSS) will help your weapons stay capped.

    Leech is no longer the "OP Console" it once was as we have plenty of alternative, cheaper options.

    Unfortunately, MACO is a bad shield from a bad set, and its power conduit should not be considered here.

    Spire Cores never reduced power drain for the purpose you're thinking about: Weapons Subsystem Power drain from weapons.

    Borticus had a post about that a while back.

    Edit: Found it! Here's Borticus' clarification.
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12543241#Comment_12543241
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  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Spire Cores never reduced power drain for the purpose you're thinking about: Weapons Subsystem Power drain from weapons.

    Borticus had a post about that a while back.

    Edit: Found it! Here's Borticus' clarification.
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12543241#Comment_12543241

    It actually does. I tested it. Maybe it's changed since that time, but last I knew it did. I'd gain 4-10 power over a core that didn't have the resistances.

    Although, maybe it was the 66% power transfer that increased the power? I guess I'll need to test it again.
  • wintermutevreswintermutevres Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    farshore wrote: »
    Spire Cores never reduced power drain for the purpose you're thinking about: Weapons Subsystem Power drain from weapons.

    Borticus had a post about that a while back.

    Edit: Found it! Here's Borticus' clarification.
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12543241#Comment_12543241

    It actually does. I tested it. Maybe it's changed since that time, but last I knew it did. I'd gain 4-10 power over a core that didn't have the resistances.

    Although, maybe it was the 66% power transfer that increased the power? I guess I'll need to test it again.

    I'm pretty sure that when those cores were released they did reduce weapon power drain by 10%. I'm sure i even saw tooltips saying that weapon drain is 9 insead of 10. However not long ago i got my hands on EWC trait and while i was playing around with it i noticed that warp core have no effect on power drain anymore. I guess they have change it at some point...
  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    I'm pretty sure that when those cores were released they did reduce weapon power drain by 10%. I'm sure i even saw tooltips saying that weapon drain is 9 insead of 10. However not long ago i got my hands on EWC trait and while i was playing around with it i noticed that warp core have no effect on power drain anymore. I guess they have change it at some point...

    I checked as recently as the Delta Recruit event. I picked up a cheap crafted warp core that had the appropriate mod on it. The power resist worked to reduce power drain from firing weapons. I'm sure of it. If it still does, the mod will add around 6-8 weapon power, while also negating power drain effects in general.
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    I think it's a terminology issue. It doesn't reduce the cost - the weapon will still try to drain it's full value. It does reduce the amount you end up losing, because the drain is resisted, but that's different from cost reduction, both in terms of terminology, and mechanically for stacking purposes.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

    Game's best wiki

    Build questions? Look here!
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,465 Arc User
    farshore wrote: »
    Spire Cores never reduced power drain for the purpose you're thinking about: Weapons Subsystem Power drain from weapons.

    Borticus had a post about that a while back.

    Edit: Found it! Here's Borticus' clarification.
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12543241#Comment_12543241

    It actually does. I tested it. Maybe it's changed since that time, but last I knew it did. I'd gain 4-10 power over a core that didn't have the resistances.

    Although, maybe it was the 66% power transfer that increased the power? I guess I'll need to test it again.

    I'm pretty sure that when those cores were released they did reduce weapon power drain by 10%. I'm sure i even saw tooltips saying that weapon drain is 9 insead of 10. However not long ago i got my hands on EWC trait and while i was playing around with it i noticed that warp core have no effect on power drain anymore. I guess they have change it at some point...

    I checked when these were first started dropping, no change in tooltip when equipped, which I found a bit confusing at the time. Were you in a Breen ship with the console 3-set or a Mogai with the 2-set perhaps?
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    farshore wrote: »
    Spire Cores never reduced power drain for the purpose you're thinking about: Weapons Subsystem Power drain from weapons.

    Borticus had a post about that a while back.

    Edit: Found it! Here's Borticus' clarification.
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12543241#Comment_12543241

    It actually does. I tested it. Maybe it's changed since that time, but last I knew it did. I'd gain 4-10 power over a core that didn't have the resistances.

    Although, maybe it was the 66% power transfer that increased the power? I guess I'll need to test it again.

    Sorry bro, but I think I'll put more stock into what Borticus says. You're not even sure yourself.

    The Spire Cores' "Drain Resist" was resisting the effects of things like Energy Siphon, Tyken's Rift affecting the ship and not Weapons Power Drain like most in the game, including myself, believed.
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  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Sorry bro, but I think I'll put more stock into what Borticus says. You're not even sure yourself.

    Congratulations. You've irritated me enough that I went ahead and tested it again.

    Flying a Science Command Cruiser. No powers were used or abilities used. No special buffs that would effect power costs or regen. A Mk II common Duet Core that I purchased for 1000 Ec vs the Kobali Core off a Samsar. Ran 8 XIV Phaser Arrays vs Kazon carrier for both tests. The Duet Core would run power levels to as far down as 60. The Kobali core...ran it down to as low as 50. Both tests were conducted for several minutes against a single target.

    So yeah, power resistance from Warpcores does reduce the costs of firing weapons. And interestingly enough, I found that using Beam Fire At Will slightly increased the power drain from firing weapons.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    FYI - Not sure where the post is, but I'm 100% sure there is a post somewhere from a dev about that warp core reducing power drain from stuff like Energy Siphon, Tyken's, etc. There was a long thread about that warp core a while ago that a dev put to rest.
  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    FYI - Not sure where the post is, but I'm 100% sure there is a post somewhere from a dev about that warp core reducing power drain from stuff like Energy Siphon, Tyken's, etc. There was a long thread about that warp core a while ago that a dev put to rest.

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12543241#Comment_12543241

    In this very thread. I haven't checked the fleet core, but the Deut core has the same buff and does reduce weapon drain.
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    farshore wrote: »
    And interestingly enough, I found that using Beam Fire At Will slightly increased the power drain from firing weapons.

    Actually, I believe a dev posted that info a while back as well, it's just not common knowledge because it's not in the power's description and weapon values jump around so much it's not immediately obvious.
    farshore wrote: »
    Flying a Science Command Cruiser. No powers were used or abilities used. No special buffs that would effect power costs or regen. A Mk II common Duet Core that I purchased for 1000 Ec vs the Kobali Core off a Samsar. Ran 8 XIV Phaser Arrays vs Kazon carrier for both tests. The Duet Core would run power levels to as far down as 60. The Kobali core...ran it down to as low as 50. Both tests were conducted for several minutes against a single target.

    It's possible what you're seeing is the result of the second portion of the Core, the Power Transfer Rate. While I've never taken the time to verify it myself, others have claimed that higher transfer rates cause the power lost from firing weapons to be restored during the firing cycle. This is in contradiction to how weapon firing cycles are stated to work though, with the energy held in limbo until the weapon finishes firing at which point it's returned immediately (or at least that's my understanding of it). I believe it had something to do with the surplus energy you would have had if overcapping where still available.


    The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    farshore wrote: »
    It's possible what you're seeing is the result of the second portion of the Core, the Power Transfer Rate. While I've never taken the time to verify it myself, others have claimed that higher transfer rates cause the power lost from firing weapons to be restored during the firing cycle. This is in contradiction to how weapon firing cycles are stated to work though, with the energy held in limbo until the weapon finishes firing at which point it's returned immediately (or at least that's my understanding of it). I believe it had something to do with the surplus energy you would have had if overcapping where still available.

    Nah, for the test I used a mark II Deut core. Basically a piece of vendor trash that has a 15% damage resistance for power drain. Presumably the Spire Core's resistance would also work.
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    farshore wrote: »
    Nah, for the test I used a mark II Deut core. Basically a piece of vendor trash that has a 15% damage resistance for power drain. Presumably the Spire Core's resistance would also work.

    My bad, I had forgotten there was another core with that specific bonus and just assumed you were using the Spire Core without reading closely enough. Odd that a dev would say specifically it's not supposed to work on weapons then, unless there's some other weird factor in there. Someone pointed at that Nadion Inversion uses the same terminology but it definitely has an impact on weapon drain.

    The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    farshore wrote: »
    And interestingly enough, I found that using Beam Fire At Will slightly increased the power drain from firing weapons.

    Actually, I believe a dev posted that info a while back as well, it's just not common knowledge because it's not in the power's description and weapon values jump around so much it's not immediately obvious.
    farshore wrote: »
    Flying a Science Command Cruiser. No powers were used or abilities used. No special buffs that would effect power costs or regen. A Mk II common Duet Core that I purchased for 1000 Ec vs the Kobali Core off a Samsar. Ran 8 XIV Phaser Arrays vs Kazon carrier for both tests. The Duet Core would run power levels to as far down as 60. The Kobali core...ran it down to as low as 50. Both tests were conducted for several minutes against a single target.

    It's possible what you're seeing is the result of the second portion of the Core, the Power Transfer Rate. While I've never taken the time to verify it myself, others have claimed that higher transfer rates cause the power lost from firing weapons to be restored during the firing cycle. This is in contradiction to how weapon firing cycles are stated to work though, with the energy held in limbo until the weapon finishes firing at which point it's returned immediately (or at least that's my understanding of it). I believe it had something to do with the surplus energy you would have had if overcapping where still available.


    It'll be EPS, pretty much; the skill that people many moons ago thought was an auto fill-to-nine, then changed their minds and thought it was bobbins, and is now again an automatic fill-to-nine.

    https://youtu.be/u_DmKQjWrcQ
    giphy.gif
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