This sort of anchors my point in Concrete. The idea of no reprieve is the major part of this issue.
In Real Life around us we have people walking about in our cities and towns that have done some Hard Core Crimes in our midst, Murders, TRIBBLE, Bank Robberies, and so forth. These persons have done some awful things to society, and they walk freely among us. (They have "Done Their Time)
Could we not offer a three Step Process to Permanent Ignore List Inclusion or some such process? If we reach a point of exasperation with one player, we put them on that list. If after, say, Three Months, there has been no further problem, they are removed for a test time. If we were to reach a point that we put that same name on the list again, it would remain for say, Six Months, and then again be Auto-Removed. If we reach the point later that we need to add them a Third time, then it is forever. (Even those Hard Core Criminals get a Three Strike Rule applied most of the time) Why can't we, as fellow Gamers, allow each other the same option?
Well without going into the justice side of the law, and the whole life in prison/death sentence, it really depends. I don't want to have to re-ignore people after 3 months. That would be a slap in the face for me. And as I mentioned, I do not want to people who I ignore to contact me again. If I feel they've 'done their time' I'll remove them from the ignore list my self, but in no way do I want them to be removed by some system timer. Would you want some criminal who stabbed you in the gut to come say hi after he gets out of prison?
I would however be open minded to 2 types of ignore options. One that like now ignores people forever, and a less harsh, shut up for (24h-7d) type ignore I may use on the occasional spammer or someone you just don't want to talk to right then (argument etc). I think this would be a much better idea than to force ignore wipes after a timer.
In the end it's up to the player to go over their list, see who they wish to keep on there and who they want to talk to again, and make their decision.
Well without going into the justice side of the law, and the whole life in prison/death sentence, it really depends. I don't want to have to re-ignore people after 3 months. That would be a slap in the face for me. And as I mentioned, I do not want to people who I ignore to contact me again. If I feel they've 'done their time' I'll remove them from the ignore list my self, but in no way do I want them to be removed by some system timer. Would you want some criminal who stabbed you in the gut to come say hi after he gets out of prison?
This is one danger we allow when we do things this way. No, I would not want that stab, and you are right, the legal actions and processes are not a part of this.
(The idea was used simply as a focal point)
I would however be open minded to 2 types of ignore options. One that like now ignores people forever, and a less harsh, shut up for (24h-7d) type ignore I may use on the occasional spammer or someone you just don't want to talk to right then (argument etc). I think this would be a much better idea than to force ignore wipes after a timer.
In the end it's up to the player to go over their list, see who they wish to keep on there and who they want to talk to again, and make their decision.
As would I. I think that would be an improvement from what we now have.
btw, does anyone have a specific Number of Names that will fill the Ignore List? I think Mail is around 250 Messages or so, is Ignore list the same?
This may sound harsh of me, but I really don't want to give someone I ignored way to make restitution. I don't ignore people for simple mistakes or misunderstandings, but once you get on my ignore list... well that's it, you're on there, enjoy yourself because you will never interact with me again.
People need to realize that actions have consequences, and if they want to be jerks to others, well ignore is that consequence.
I've almost never use my ignore list. Everyone's entitled to have a really bad day, or be socially dysfunctional time and again.
And I always, clean the list up, by removing anyone if they should get on it.
After a few days, I'm pretty much over anything.
It's hard to take negative things seriously in the game, bad behavior wise. If someone gives me a hard time, so what, no one really knows the real "me", therefore I simply don't consider them qualified to really bother me.
I guess* I don't fully understand the desire to get back into another player's good graces. The /ignore feature is a double-edged sword - yes, it allows a player to "cut off" another player, but at the expense of cutting off one's own self in exactly the same manner. If someone's so ready to permanently /ignore me over relatively trivial things, that's probably not someone I'd want to talk to anyway... I say, let 'em /ignore the world and stew in their own juices.
A temporary /ignore as a precondition for a permanent /ignore would not be something I'd oppose... but I can just imagine the howling that would erupt from a vocal minority. Sounds like fun, so I guess I'm for it, even if I'm not really "for" it.
LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! *belch*
*There are several different facets to this:
First, Cryptic, or many posters on here set in my mind that this game was designed to be, and was to function, as a Social Networking Hub. With the amount of Hostilities I saw in my first 4 or 5 months on this forum, and, as I personally observed, the lack of patience with me as a new player, I have chosen to play this game SOLO, I suppose as many here have. Where is that Socializing that was supposed to be there?
Second, there have been some recent posts about Welcoming the New Players, who are not even here yet, and I am wondering How can we welcome, (Perhaps even several Thousand More New Players), when we, as a community can not even welcome each other civilly.
There is Great anger expressed over Lack of Content. Then we get into who should get something new First, Federation, or Klingon. Then we disagree if there is Too Much PVP, or Not Enough PVP. Which Ships need to be reduced in Power, because there have Too Much Advantage in PVP. Which Ships need to be Boosted in Strength or Ability? The list is probably endless for the things that fights in here break out over. People argue over most anything on these forums. (There is evidence of these things in the numbers of Closed Threads seen over the last week or so)
I see players who are Not Good at PVP. Instead of a Better Player taking them under their wing, and Teaching them what they need to know with Patience and Understanding, they call them stupid, and then get into an argument, that later leads to the Ignore List. Someone else has difficulty understanding Consoles and their Proper use for the desired results being sought. Why can't players, in the game, take them on a mission, and show them what each Console is for, and how it works? Each player is busy with Playing their Own Game, Ranking Their Own Toon, and can not be bothered, most of the time to share that Vast Ocean of Game Knowledge with others. It seems easier just to ignore, why be bothered.
I see very little to none of that Base of Socialization that Cryptic wanted in here, and IMO, Ignore just adds to that failing of the features built into the game.
i only put people on the ignore list who cant stop talking nonsense on chat channels like Red Alert
or for SPAM ...or sometimes even for Fleet Invite Spam (if i catch them)
i never put someone on the forums on ignore, that makes no sense to me, i can ignore posts, chat lines i can hardly ignore while in the chat
and even then, i clear my ignore list every few months, i mean how are the chances to run into someone again who was slightly annoying on the chat that one day?
I would however be open minded to 2 types of ignore options. One that like now ignores people forever, and a less harsh, shut up for (24h-7d) type ignore I may use on the occasional spammer or someone you just don't want to talk to right then (argument etc). I think this would be a much better idea than to force ignore wipes after a timer.
In the end it's up to the player to go over their list, see who they wish to keep on there and who they want to talk to again, and make their decision.
In my opinion, This one suggestion was worth the Risk of Posting such a sensitive topic as this is to many people. If there are any other ideas such as this, or even others that are Not in this Box as yet, can we see what they are?
stormShade, Would it be possible to forward this Idea on to developers for their consideration?
I see very little to none of that Base of Socialization that Cryptic wanted in here, and IMO, Ignore just adds to that failing of the features built into the game.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I don't see any evidence that /ignore is contributing significantly to the lack of socialization. The very structure of the game (outside PvP and STFs) seems to encourage solo play - ship setups and skill choices allow a lot of independence, teaming doesn't significantly increase rewards or challenge level (at least in my experience), and those few mainstream missions that "require" teaming generally get nerfed to soloability.
In comparison, /ignore's impact on sociability seems trivial.
Sure, there's plenty of forum arguments to sate the most trollish of desires - but how many /ignores actually happen as a result? How many people have you /ignored? How many do you know about who have /ignored you? How do all these arguments persist if everyone's /ignoring each other?
Anyway, I guess I've said my piece. I'm all for a stepwise /ignore process or an alternative /tempignore feature; but I just can't help but feel that you're overestimating the effects of /ignore.
i use my ignore list on the forums as a sort of warning to myself that the person on it will probably annoy me if i read their comments. i almost always do read them, but its just to prepare myself that their comments will probably make me facepalm.
perhaps not the best way to use the ignore list but it works for me.
Why do people ignore Fleet recruitment... I can see the people who SPAM it, like every 30 secs, but the 106th only does it once in a zone per person every 10 minutes... And then it gets called spam... To me, SPAM is CONTINUOUS, unwanted advertisement or unwelcome communication. Every 10 minutes imo is not spam.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I don't see any evidence that /ignore is contributing significantly to the lack of socialization. The very structure of the game (outside PvP and STFs) seems to encourage solo play - ship setups and skill choices allow a lot of independence, teaming doesn't significantly increase rewards or challenge level (at least in my experience), and those few mainstream missions that "require" teaming generally get nerfed to soloability.
I agree with this to about 98%. I do see at times players show Impatience with others who Do Not Know what they are doing. It would seem that if they took the time, if they have it to spare, to teach others, it might help make their own game play better as well. If, for instance, there were 3 players who could do X mission on Elite, and 17 who could not, due to a lack of training. Then if those 3 taught what they know, then probably a group of 20 Elite might come out of that effort.
Sure, there's plenty of forum arguments to sate the most trollish of desires - but how many /ignores actually happen as a result? How many people have you /ignored? How many do you know about who have /ignored you? How do all these arguments persist if everyone's /ignoring each other?
I have, at one time had up to 20 on my own list, all of whom have been removed. I too see the Blockage in communications to this process.
There is no way that I am aware of to know how many lists I may be on.
Anyway, I guess I've said my piece. I'm all for a stepwise /ignore process or an alternative /tempignore feature; but I just can't help but feel that you're overestimating the effects of /ignore.
Thank you for your contribution. Perhaps it will get sent on to the Dev's to chew on, but I do not want to leave anyone with the idea that I am trying to push any point except to see if there are ways we can help improve the game, and make everyone's play better. I simply posted a topic that was on my mind, and it covers a different topic from most. I view it as a facet of a gem that everyone needs to work together to help polish.
Only the really really "special" people get to stay on ignore, everyone else I remove from my ignore list after a week or so. Of course it is odd to be Misunderstood and Addignored before you can explain they're taking what you said wrong.
In my opinion, This one suggestion was worth the Risk of Posting such a sensitive topic as this is to many people. If there are any other ideas such as this, or even others that are Not in this Box as yet, can we see what they are?
Here is another.
Make a feature called pardon or something like that, where once per say 6 months, a person could hit it, and it would send a mail to the other person who has you ignored. It would say something like this:
"So and so is requesting a pardon, and wishes to be removed from your ignore list"
At which point it would be up to the played that ignored them to remove them if they'd like, or keep them on ignore.
I'd also be up some a feature like that, as long as you let me enforce my ignore list, I do not mind adding features that allow others to apologize.
it's unfortunate that people are so quick to ignore one another. It's even annoying when they throw some snotty remark out before the add you to their list so that you can't even reach a resolution (well, not a good resolution anyway). A lot of people are so keen on taking everything little thing in a negative way and then overreacting, expecting the moderators to swoop in and save them.
It's just so close minded and not at all canon for a bunch of people playing a Star Trek game.
I think this is the problem. Many of you are way too extremely sensitive over the smallest of perceived "infractions". There used to be a Dutch fleet that did recruitment calls on ESD all day, every day, in perpetuity, and haughtily ignored repeated pleas to knock it off. That person really had a "Report Spam" coming. But to just ignore someone forever for the slightest chat seems draconian. It's your right, of course.
SA, I believe SH has said basically the same thing you have, but I think you are misunderstanding his sentence presentation. That is proof that our words can be misunderstood at times.
Here's a thought - allow players to attach a note to the person's name in their ignore list, so they can remember why they ignored that person, and leave it up to them to decide if they were just frustrated or what have you the next day or whatever...
Here's a thought - allow players to attach a note to the person's name in their ignore list, so they can remember why they ignored that person, and leave it up to them to decide if they were just frustrated or what have you the next day or whatever...
WOW! Another great Idea. As forgetful as I can be at times, I would like this feature very much.
I can understand the Basic Reason for the Ignore List to Exist since some people will often Abuse and Harass Others on Forums such as this.
However, I do also see at times that some people see a Misunderstanding, or a Misinterpretation as some issue more than what it is, and by the time the problem is seen to be a mistake, their name is already on another players Ignore list, and the damage is done.
If one player wants to set things right, Posts are then Ignored, PM's are Ignored, and basically, a WALL has been built that there seems to be no way to get through.
It is, in the final analysis, it is probably better Not to Misunderstand or Make any Mistakes, (But then that would make us Not Human?), but who is at fault here, the one who makes a mistake, or the one who Builds the Wall?
I use mine though for:
-spam
-immature comments
-someone who is obviously trolling
-those who won't listen to reason
In a way I'm not surprised about the hundreds I've added sinse headstart. The ignore list IS a "wall" OP, but that "wall" is truely for the better good of STO.
I hate to say but if I put you on ignore then I have good reason too....and No I do not want the person i have on ignore anyway to contact me, nor restitution....I may have a few months remove them from it but usually its spammers, or people acting stupid in Zone.....
So no, I do not want them to have any means to contact me....Ignore is and should stay ignore.....
-spam
-immature comments
-someone who is obviously trolling
-those who won't listen to reason
In a way I'm not surprised about the hundreds I've added sinse headstart. The ignore list IS a "wall" OP, but that "wall" is truely for the better good of STO.
Wouldn't it be awesome, if we could have a real life ignore list?
Imagine the state of things then ! lol
Problem is, what do you do if you are automatically teamed in a stf, fleet or Borg mission with someone you've ignored? :rolleyes:
See, I completely agree that some people/behaviors deserve a spot on an ignore list. I would never argue that the ignore option isn't one that shouldn't be used in some cases.
But I think that it should be temporary at first, say for a month or so. everyone gets an automatic reprieve, hey everyone makes stupid mistakes. Sometimes it's easy to get off on the wrong foot after a bad day.
BUT, if you put that same person on the list AGAIN, it should give you the option for it to be permanent then.
Way I see it, if you go through the trouble of putting them on the list again, after some time to think about it, there's a real problem there, it should also automatically ask you if you want to report the behavior/person at that stage too.
I was talking to someone the other day, who told me that he was ignoring people because of their ship/character names and bios. Anything non "Trek" or perceived silly and that was it for them.
Then he complained how hard teaming for STF's was!
And I kinda thought to myself, what's wrong with this guy ? Imagine how long HIS list MUST be!
So I put him on my ignore list .........., Just kidding lol
The fact that some people can't even remember why someone is on their list, just seems to suggest to me that it might be a tad overused is all. Just my opinion anyway.
Also, I don't like that you can be in the same zone with someone, looking directly at them and talking to (or listening to them spout off) but they don't appear on a /who list. Invisible, in that sense, doesn't make sense. I feel that people shouldn't be so quick to ignore, nor should they be allowed to participate fully in all things while blocking others. I have advanced sensors and communication technology! But hey, to each his own I guess.
So if we can't necro discussions...and can't make duplicate discussions, where does that leave us?
That is the problem isn't it? I chose the lesser of two evils
I also like the words "I'm allowed to disagree" Too many like to think that their way, their thoughts, and their opinions, which they impose on us as facts too often, are law and anyone who disagrees with them are automaticly wrong.
The only time I've ever ignored anyone is for spam. Haven't felt angry enough at anyone else to ever ignore another person. In other games, yeah, I have. But not in this game, for some reason. Although there was one other char I did ignore some time back because he was just getting really creepy towards a female character I had, and I honestly just didn't want to deal with it.
Fleet Admiral Duane Gundrum, U.S.S. Merrimack
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
Comments
Well without going into the justice side of the law, and the whole life in prison/death sentence, it really depends. I don't want to have to re-ignore people after 3 months. That would be a slap in the face for me. And as I mentioned, I do not want to people who I ignore to contact me again. If I feel they've 'done their time' I'll remove them from the ignore list my self, but in no way do I want them to be removed by some system timer. Would you want some criminal who stabbed you in the gut to come say hi after he gets out of prison?
I would however be open minded to 2 types of ignore options. One that like now ignores people forever, and a less harsh, shut up for (24h-7d) type ignore I may use on the occasional spammer or someone you just don't want to talk to right then (argument etc). I think this would be a much better idea than to force ignore wipes after a timer.
In the end it's up to the player to go over their list, see who they wish to keep on there and who they want to talk to again, and make their decision.
This is one danger we allow when we do things this way. No, I would not want that stab, and you are right, the legal actions and processes are not a part of this.
(The idea was used simply as a focal point)
As would I. I think that would be an improvement from what we now have.
btw, does anyone have a specific Number of Names that will fill the Ignore List? I think Mail is around 250 Messages or so, is Ignore list the same?
I've almost never use my ignore list. Everyone's entitled to have a really bad day, or be socially dysfunctional time and again.
And I always, clean the list up, by removing anyone if they should get on it.
After a few days, I'm pretty much over anything.
It's hard to take negative things seriously in the game, bad behavior wise. If someone gives me a hard time, so what, no one really knows the real "me", therefore I simply don't consider them qualified to really bother me.
*There are several different facets to this:
First, Cryptic, or many posters on here set in my mind that this game was designed to be, and was to function, as a Social Networking Hub. With the amount of Hostilities I saw in my first 4 or 5 months on this forum, and, as I personally observed, the lack of patience with me as a new player, I have chosen to play this game SOLO, I suppose as many here have. Where is that Socializing that was supposed to be there?
Second, there have been some recent posts about Welcoming the New Players, who are not even here yet, and I am wondering How can we welcome, (Perhaps even several Thousand More New Players), when we, as a community can not even welcome each other civilly.
There is Great anger expressed over Lack of Content. Then we get into who should get something new First, Federation, or Klingon. Then we disagree if there is Too Much PVP, or Not Enough PVP. Which Ships need to be reduced in Power, because there have Too Much Advantage in PVP. Which Ships need to be Boosted in Strength or Ability? The list is probably endless for the things that fights in here break out over. People argue over most anything on these forums. (There is evidence of these things in the numbers of Closed Threads seen over the last week or so)
I see players who are Not Good at PVP. Instead of a Better Player taking them under their wing, and Teaching them what they need to know with Patience and Understanding, they call them stupid, and then get into an argument, that later leads to the Ignore List. Someone else has difficulty understanding Consoles and their Proper use for the desired results being sought. Why can't players, in the game, take them on a mission, and show them what each Console is for, and how it works? Each player is busy with Playing their Own Game, Ranking Their Own Toon, and can not be bothered, most of the time to share that Vast Ocean of Game Knowledge with others. It seems easier just to ignore, why be bothered.
I see very little to none of that Base of Socialization that Cryptic wanted in here, and IMO, Ignore just adds to that failing of the features built into the game.
or for SPAM ...or sometimes even for Fleet Invite Spam (if i catch them)
i never put someone on the forums on ignore, that makes no sense to me, i can ignore posts, chat lines i can hardly ignore while in the chat
and even then, i clear my ignore list every few months, i mean how are the chances to run into someone again who was slightly annoying on the chat that one day?
In my opinion, This one suggestion was worth the Risk of Posting such a sensitive topic as this is to many people. If there are any other ideas such as this, or even others that are Not in this Box as yet, can we see what they are?
stormShade, Would it be possible to forward this Idea on to developers for their consideration?
In comparison, /ignore's impact on sociability seems trivial.
Sure, there's plenty of forum arguments to sate the most trollish of desires - but how many /ignores actually happen as a result? How many people have you /ignored? How many do you know about who have /ignored you? How do all these arguments persist if everyone's /ignoring each other?
Anyway, I guess I've said my piece. I'm all for a stepwise /ignore process or an alternative /tempignore feature; but I just can't help but feel that you're overestimating the effects of /ignore.
perhaps not the best way to use the ignore list but it works for me.
I agree with this to about 98%. I do see at times players show Impatience with others who Do Not Know what they are doing. It would seem that if they took the time, if they have it to spare, to teach others, it might help make their own game play better as well. If, for instance, there were 3 players who could do X mission on Elite, and 17 who could not, due to a lack of training. Then if those 3 taught what they know, then probably a group of 20 Elite might come out of that effort.
I have, at one time had up to 20 on my own list, all of whom have been removed. I too see the Blockage in communications to this process.
There is no way that I am aware of to know how many lists I may be on.
Thank you for your contribution. Perhaps it will get sent on to the Dev's to chew on, but I do not want to leave anyone with the idea that I am trying to push any point except to see if there are ways we can help improve the game, and make everyone's play better. I simply posted a topic that was on my mind, and it covers a different topic from most. I view it as a facet of a gem that everyone needs to work together to help polish.
Here is another.
Make a feature called pardon or something like that, where once per say 6 months, a person could hit it, and it would send a mail to the other person who has you ignored. It would say something like this:
"So and so is requesting a pardon, and wishes to be removed from your ignore list"
At which point it would be up to the played that ignored them to remove them if they'd like, or keep them on ignore.
I'd also be up some a feature like that, as long as you let me enforce my ignore list, I do not mind adding features that allow others to apologize.
I think this is the problem. Many of you are way too extremely sensitive over the smallest of perceived "infractions". There used to be a Dutch fleet that did recruitment calls on ESD all day, every day, in perpetuity, and haughtily ignored repeated pleas to knock it off. That person really had a "Report Spam" coming. But to just ignore someone forever for the slightest chat seems draconian. It's your right, of course.
Ah, I see said the Blind Man, as he picked up his Hammer and Saw.
WOW! Another great Idea. As forgetful as I can be at times, I would like this feature very much.
I use mine though for:
-spam
-immature comments
-someone who is obviously trolling
-those who won't listen to reason
In a way I'm not surprised about the hundreds I've added sinse headstart. The ignore list IS a "wall" OP, but that "wall" is truely for the better good of STO.
So no, I do not want them to have any means to contact me....Ignore is and should stay ignore.....
Wouldn't it be awesome, if we could have a real life ignore list?
Imagine the state of things then ! lol
Problem is, what do you do if you are automatically teamed in a stf, fleet or Borg mission with someone you've ignored? :rolleyes:
See, I completely agree that some people/behaviors deserve a spot on an ignore list. I would never argue that the ignore option isn't one that shouldn't be used in some cases.
But I think that it should be temporary at first, say for a month or so. everyone gets an automatic reprieve, hey everyone makes stupid mistakes. Sometimes it's easy to get off on the wrong foot after a bad day.
BUT, if you put that same person on the list AGAIN, it should give you the option for it to be permanent then.
Way I see it, if you go through the trouble of putting them on the list again, after some time to think about it, there's a real problem there, it should also automatically ask you if you want to report the behavior/person at that stage too.
I was talking to someone the other day, who told me that he was ignoring people because of their ship/character names and bios. Anything non "Trek" or perceived silly and that was it for them.
Then he complained how hard teaming for STF's was!
And I kinda thought to myself, what's wrong with this guy ? Imagine how long HIS list MUST be!
So I put him on my ignore list .........., Just kidding lol
The fact that some people can't even remember why someone is on their list, just seems to suggest to me that it might be a tad overused is all. Just my opinion anyway.
Don't think there are actually mods anymore like there used to be so perhaps it might have a chance to stick around for a while
This thread is like...Ancient Iconian old...
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
That is the problem isn't it? I chose the lesser of two evils
I also like the words "I'm allowed to disagree" Too many like to think that their way, their thoughts, and their opinions, which they impose on us as facts too often, are law and anyone who disagrees with them are automaticly wrong.
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire