Midnight Spoilers: Can we finally kill Sela

rosetyler51 · September 2015

If you played it you know why. In the history of the known universe no one has a higher body count than Sela.

artan42 · September 2015

I'd actually agree this time. I'm all for the RSE but Sela is responsible for approximately 10 billion deaths.

pottsey5g · September 2015

What she did shouldn’t have caused any war. T'Ket shouldn’t have known what a Romulen was. That means Romulen shouldn’t have got targeted so Sela never gets upset and causes the problem. The story made no sense.

rosetyler51 · September 2015

pottsey5g wrote: »

What she did shouldn’t have caused any war. T'Ket shouldn’t have known what a Romulen was. That means Romulen shouldn’t have got targeted so Sela never gets upset and causes the problem. The story made no sense.

Even if remove that her attack against a peaceful race still lead to the Iconians becomes what they are today. Her races are forever marked with blood.

protogoth · September 2015

I knew she was going to come riding in hoping to save the day and win everyone's gratitude and trust. And once we were back on ancient Iconia, I knew she was going to pull her usual treacherous BS. I kept trying to shoot her, again, push her off one of the platforms, even pummel her to death with my bare hands, but noooo, fate blah blah blah. And yes, the title of this thread was exactly the first thing that crossed my mind when the mission was over. Can we finally kill Sela? Even Hhakhifv didn't elicit this amount of hatred from me. And I didn't even get to re-arrest her at the end of the mission!? Holy Angelina Jolie!

guljarol · September 2015

Putting a spoiler in the thread title doesn't exactly save people from being spoiled

As for the question itself: yes, please! I wanted to do that all the time during the ep. All I could do was shouting "Shut up, Sela!" at my poor, innocent monitor

starswordc · September 2015

rosetyler51 wrote: »

If you played it you know why. In the history of the known universe no one has a higher body count than Sela.

We should kill her anyway, but...

pottsey5g wrote: »

What she did shouldn’t have caused any war. T'Ket shouldn’t have known what a Romulen was. That means Romulen shouldn’t have got targeted so Sela never gets upset and causes the problem. The story made no sense.

... there's this. The Romulans didn't exist yet because the Sundering hadn't happened yet. In fact it's unlikely the Vulcans had even passed the Stone Age at that point.

But did you really expect any better from the writing team that gave us "House Pegh"?

protogoth · September 2015

Don't forget that Kagren had been there for a fortnight before we arrived, nor that the Ikonnsu have demonstrated psionic skills in previous missions in this story arc.

But I have to also comment on this, which happened more than once:

[System] [InteractionFailed] Wait for Sela to Finish Speaking.

Yeah, I'll finish her speaking right now. *fingers Honor Blade*

skylarcomet · September 2015

Wish we could have shot her, before she had a chance to pull the trigger, or at least after she fired the first shot.

strathkin · September 2015

I was feeling the exact same as you, I really FEEL IN LOVE with the ancient Iconians, and agreed with our the Klingon throughout. I'm just glad HE stepped in and stopped her madness... just wish it was sooner!

I think the reason is clear though, she needed to repeat things, to get us to the future we know. It really makes wish we GOT to know more about the former Iconians and their history... It's just too bad mistakes were made on both sides and I'm just glad most in light of the new information could see the errors of their ways. Seems the Iconians simply want to return to rebuild their planet, culture, and possibly now be able to recreate others with their original genetic origins and other information intact. Who knows perhaps in time we'll get to meet those Iconians again, it's just unfortunate like in all conflicts, we often fight for the wrong reasons, and often both sides suffer and get hurt in the process--it's unforunate now we'll not get to learn more about the preservers & they are thought to be lost.

Although what someone said earlier that "T'Ket shouldn’t have known what a Romulen was" perhaps they didn't back then as that was made abundenly clear. Still even a hundred thousand plus years later I'm sure they remember Seela and recognized her race when her former Romulan General approached... Seela is not someone you can forget easily - I'm just surprised how many felt similar to me about wanting to help the ancient Iconians.

mustrumridcully0 · September 2015

It would be very satisfying to be able to kill her, but it might ultimately be more interesting to see her deal with the realization that she can't blame anyone but herself for what happened to her people.

guljarol · September 2015

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

It would be very satisfying to be able to kill her, but it might ultimately be more interesting to see her deal with the realization that she can't blame anyone but herself for what happened to her people.

In a tiny cell deep underground on New Romulus. Yes, that would satisfy me.

gurluas · September 2015

To be honest, instead of locking her up, I'd prefer if she worked to redeem herself.
Starting by uniting the Imperial remnants under the Republic, and serving D'tan.

guljarol · September 2015

^I doubt it's possible. Both redeeming herself, and serving D'Tan. She'd just go around, claiming she tries to redeem herself, but gathering more power for herself. Same old, same old.

BTW, why in your siggie D'Kyr is only for Fed-Roms? KDF-Roms are still Romulans, too!

gurluas · September 2015

Because It's a Vulcan ship, the idea of giving it to Fed Romulans is for reunificationists.

And if Sela is sincere about reexamining herself and being a better person, the best thing she can do is end this strife and unite the surviving Romulans and abdicate.

guljarol · September 2015

gurluas wrote: »

Because It's a Vulcan ship, the idea of giving it to Fed Romulans is for reunificationists.

And if Sela is sincere about reexamining herself and being a better person, the best thing she can do is end this strife and unite the surviving Romulans and abdicate.

Why do you assume that KDF-allied Romulans are not reunificationists? One of mine is, and the only reason he's KDF-allied is that red doff missions are more interesting and profitable. A practical choice of mine, not a political allegiance of his

This shouldn't be limited to some Romulans. D'Kyr for ALL

As for Sela, she may be sincere, but it doesn't mean she'd do the "right thing", or what we'd consider the right thing. She could try to rebuild the Star Empire to fix what's happened to it because of her. She may not abdicate (as if she still were any kind of "empress"), because she could claim that only staying in power would let her do soooo much goooooood for all Romulans.
This woman was always only for herself. Suddenly discovering that she messed up big deal doesn't have to mean she'd really change or understand WHY she'd led to it (as in, what in her personality, approach, attitude led to that result).

Besides, even if you are right and Sela can be redeemed, I still think she needs to be punished for all her crimes. "Sorry" doesn't fix things. While I'd love to just shoot her, an execution would be an easy way out of her consciousness. I'd rather she lived with the knowledge of what she's done.

So we're back to a small cell in some dungeon.

starswordc · September 2015

Firing squad. No free passes for sentient rights abusers and mass murderers.

antonine3258 · September 2015

gurluas wrote: »

To be honest, instead of locking her up, I'd prefer if she worked to redeem herself.
Starting by uniting the Imperial remnants under the Republic, and serving D'tan.

Maybe finally this time she'd learn something - I do sort of hope after the party finishes someone claps her in irons, though - depends what deal that snake struck with the Dominion of course.

protogoth · September 2015

I do not believe that her "remorse" is genuine. If it were, she would have followed Romulan tradition and committed honorable suicide. She has claimed at least two or three times that "everything" she did was "for the Romulan people," but anyone who believes that might be interested in a bridge which I have for sale in Earth's San Francisco, or a piece of oceanfront property in Earth's Kansas which I have listed with the realtor. Sela never cared about her "subjects" except as the steps on which she climbed. She has always cared only for herself. So letting her "live with the knowledge" blah blah blah, or letting her "live with the guilt" blah blah blah, is not punishment. And in the case of a narcissist, imprisonment, even in solitary confinement, would not serve as punishment. She is incorrigible, and incurably insane. Some mental illnesses cannot be healed, even in 2410, and rather than leave an opening for the deluded to rescue her at some future point, or give her hope of eventual escape, I would see her dead. While justice and vengeance are not coterminous, to claim that they never overlap would be presumptuous. Romulans and Remans should not be expected to share all of the same cultural values which (some) Humans hold, nor are a majority Romulans and Remans -- even those who are citizens of the Republic -- followers of Surakianism. T'Ket be damned; she has suffered nowhere near what we have suffered as a result of Sela. The people call for her blood. I would give it to them. Vive la Republic!

damix4 · September 2015

rosetyler51 wrote: »

If you played it you know why. In the history of the known universe no one has a higher body count than Sela.

I actually blame Iconians for billions of dead people. Iconian's attitude toward other species led to massive bombardment of their planet which destroyed their own culture (Sela not guilty). If Others haven't helped them, they wouldn't be able to open the gateway to Dewa III. Instead of seeing that as a second chance to make a society that wouldn't lead them to their fall, they have chosen the dark path. Iconians were blinded by hate and in that process forgotten they were saved by Others. They attacked Others and were prepared to enslave and demolish the whole galaxy even though revenge wouldn't bring back fallen ones. Iconians could have stopped when they captured Sela on one of the Elachi subspace outposts, but no...

This was really amazing mission, got me very emotional while I was playing. Sela lives with great burden and I'm looking forward to seeing how her character develops.

tolmarius · September 2015

It so happens that the Iconians attitudes (minus the public references to "lesser species") is the same as the Federation's. You must be this tall to ride the roller coaster. Ignoring the fact that they will have the technology on their own by that point. It's like a dad telling his son " I'll build you a treehouse once you demonstrate that you can build your own." Helping someone to be responsible with the technology, teaching them and guiding them to knowledge is a far better policy than just in categorically denying it to them on the grounds that they are lesser species.

antonine3258 · September 2015

The Federation Prime Directive is 1) trying not to tamper with internal cultures that aren't part of them and 2) Don't contact species that don't have FTL travel yet (the main "You must be this tall to play") - past that point they seem to happily hand out technology.

If a culture's at the point of reaching out, they seem happy to grab the hand in greeting. The Iconians set their bar much, much higher.

protogoth · September 2015

And the Iconians were right to set their bar much higher. Did you pay attention to the dialogue in the mission, particularly the banter between the Lee Iacocca (or whatever their species was named) and the Dinasian? These were not species which should have been entrusted with technology of that level. They were the ones bent on conquest, not simply throwing off the yoke of the Iconians as we had been led to believe ("History is written by the victors" anyone?).

bltrrn · September 2015

protogoth wrote: »

And the Iconians were right to set their bar much higher. Did you pay attention to the dialogue in the mission, particularly the banter between the Lee Iacocca (or whatever their species was named) and the Dinasian? These were not species which should have been entrusted with technology of that level. They were the ones bent on conquest, not simply throwing off the yoke of the Iconians as we had been led to believe ("History is written by the victors" anyone?).

I noticed as well, that the invasion force was wearing Dominion jumpsuits. The Dominion and the Iconians, have been rivals, for quite some time. Sela is supported by the Dominion. Any questions?

djsimonroc88 · September 2015

I felt a sudden sadness and emotion running over me when Sela shot the iconian survivors I knew she was going to do something like this I wanted to save M'tara so bad! I hope Karma gets Sela so bad for what she did to these people and Romulus. She may of helped bring allies into this war but that doesn't change the fact of her crimes.

themightythor00 · September 2015

So am I the only one that has a little bit of hope that Sela learned her lesson and will finally come together with D'Tan to unite the Republic and the Star Empire?

protogoth · September 2015

themightythor00 wrote: »

So am I the only one that has a little bit of hope that Sela learned her lesson and will finally come together with D'Tan to unite the Republic and the Star Empire?

Sela will not change. She may put on a show of remorse, but personality does not change. She has always been out for herself and only herself, and that's not going to be any different now.

lordinsane · September 2015

The only Star Empire-Republic unification Sela could be trusted with being involved with at this point is surrendering whatever scraps of the Star Empire still recognize her to the Republic.

kodachikuno · September 2015

themightythor00 wrote: »

So am I the only one that has a little bit of hope that Sela learned her lesson and will finally come together with D'Tan to unite the Republic and the Star Empire?

yes, yes you are..... Im one who prefers the Empire and I have to say I'm the first one in line to tryin and out shoot protogoth for the kill on Sela

themightythor00 · September 2015

kodachikuno wrote: »

themightythor00 wrote: »

So am I the only one that has a little bit of hope that Sela learned her lesson and will finally come together with D'Tan to unite the Republic and the Star Empire?

yes, yes you are..... Im one who prefers the Empire and I have to say I'm the first one in line to tryin and out shoot protogoth for the kill on Sela

Im not going to lie whenever Im with Sela I agree with every word she say cause Iv been in love with her since the episode Reaunification part II. when she was like were going to unify not with diplomacy but with an invasion force, I was like okay with me ether way. Overall I feel bad for her I must have been hard for her to be half human on Romulas and having her mother Tasha Yar killer by Romulan guards while she tried to escape and I also kinda admire her for going through all that and rising through the Ranks of the Star Navy and then becoming Pro-Council but she really did go drunk with power and had all that hate really the moment I knew she was crazy was during the misson when the Tal Shiar tries to brainwash you and you have to test a thaleron weapon on a cute little Epoh and she is like "I never get tired off watching thaloron weapons detonate" that was a little unsettling but like I said I kinda feel bad for her.

potasssium · September 2015

I'd rid the universe of Tovan Khev and have Sela as First Officer.

Midnight Spoilers: Can we finally kill Sela

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