I wonder is she in the house of pegh group because mainstream Klingon society rejects them, or just a coincidence.
Not bothered by it in game one bit, for the record.
It's not mention in canon, but I imaging they view it the same way Spartans would.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The true question would be why throw kaless into the mix? Using a melee weapon against a energy being? Really? What, just to try a chance into showing the other members of the alliance that klingons are better than them? Maybe to give the klingons a good kick in the head so they would stop with the better than tho attitudes? It looks like it, but i didn't make the story.
The true question would be why throw kaless into the mix? Using a melee weapon against a energy being? Really? What, just to try a chance into showing the other members of the alliance that klingons are better than them? Maybe to give the klingons a good kick in the head so they would stop with the better than tho attitudes? It looks like it, but i didn't make the story.
Meh, he's a clone. I'm sure the Empire can just grow another.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
True, half of the empire believed he was the true kaless, while the other knew he wasn't and wanted to kill him off. This would be the best way to do it. Anyway, how this story is going, (this is a guess by the way) time will be changed and he won't have go through something like this anyway. On a side note, I bet a lot of players were yelling for him to shut up and kill the iconian before something happened. But, we all seen what happened. Hmm, I have thought about if kaless did kill that iconian would the leader gotten wiser and made it impossible to injury her and they would have gotten a bigger upper hand on the alliance? Just a thought.
True, half of the empire believed he was the true kaless, while the other knew he wasn't and wanted to kill him off.
Actually, I think at the end of the episode that introduced the clone Khaless, Gowron and Worf agreed that they would not conceal his secret as clone. It was still up to every individual Klingon to decide whether this was just his form of "reincarnation"/"return", or if he's a meaningless fake, or something in between.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I wonder is she in the house of pegh group because mainstream Klingon society rejects them, or just a coincidence.
Not bothered by it in game one bit, for the record.
It's not mention in canon, but I imaging they view it the same way Spartans would.
The Klingon approach to same gender relationships has been mentioned in at least one soft canon source. The first Vanguard series novel Harbinger stated:
Not only had she forsaken Klingon tradition for the touch of other women... The inevitable, eternal reproach of her ancestors haunted Sandesjo's thoughts: They will never let me enter Sto-Vo-Kor.
This was in 2263, the Kirk era, and thankfully attitudes within the Empire appear to have evolved since then.
The issue was never directly treated in Star Trek, be it with Klingons or anybody else. Everything hints at the fact that it should be a no-brainer to most societies but those that are deliberately portrayed as being "backwards" for the sake of morality plays, but the truth is that the people in charge (Rick Berman once said it was Paramount executives) simply didn't want homosexuals in Star Trek, period. It was a taboo then and to some people it's still today. All we got was the mere hint at a evolved society without discrimination for Earth and the UFP - but to be fair, any form of sexuality was seldom a focus for episodes. If it was mentioned it was only a plot element to drive a different perspective forward. The occasions people mention as LGBT elements in Star Trek really weren't about that at all and if they were at least I would consider them somewhat offensive even.
But with the Klingons I see no reason why homosexuality would be a taboo issue. They are the archetype of a warrior society, most prominently a smooth blend of Sanurai, Viking and Spartan archetypes. And non of those cultures has, to present knowledge, ever had any issues with homosexuals. Simply because the sexual ethics (not function or necessity) of man and woman is, in those cultures, a product of christian morals, as well as the basically misogynistic expectations about women's roles - at least Vikings and Samurai had women partake in all labours, even war (in Japan women were not allowed to go out and conquer though, but they made a good part of the defending garrisons and nordic sagas tell many stories of shield maidens). I'm not saying that the ancient societies were more advanced or anything (because they most definitely weren't - for every inch of liberty a homosexual had, racism, xenophoby and murder and war crimes were completely acceptable) but at least they didn't make a fuss about homosexuality on a wide level, aside from some even encouraging it amongst their warriors (spartans, samurai) while others had to simply proof they were "still" fully capable warriors (Vikings) and everybody seemed fine with it, at least according to what we can reconstruct today. What they had in common though was most likely that despite whatever sexuality someone had they were ultimately expected to produce offspring (because the society heavily depended on it). Having open homosexual relations "on the sideline" though were most likely not shunned or bothersome at all. I would assume something similiar for Klingon society, but this is only wild speculation based on the very little historical infromation we have about pre-christian cultures and more importantly because Star Trek never dared to touch the "hot topic".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The issue was never directly treated in Star Trek, be it with Klingons or anybody else. Everything hints at the fact that it should be a no-brainer to most societies but those that are deliberately portrayed as being "backwards" for the sake of morality plays, but the truth is that the people in charge (Rick Berman once said it was Paramount executives) simply didn't want homosexuals in Star Trek, period. It was a taboo then and to some people it's still today. All we got was the mere hint at a evolved society without discrimination for Earth and the UFP - but to be fair, any form of sexuality was seldom a focus for episodes. If it was mentioned it was only a plot element to drive a different perspective forward. The occasions people mention as LGBT elements in Star Trek really weren't about that at all and if they were at least I would consider them somewhat offensive even.
But with the Klingons I see no reason why homosexuality would be a taboo issue. They are the archetype of a warrior society, most prominently a smooth blend of Sanurai, Viking and Spartan archetypes. And non of those cultures has, to present knowledge, ever had any issues with homosexuals. Simply because the sexual ethics (not function or necessity) of man and woman is, in those cultures, a product of christian morals, as well as the basically misogynistic expectations about women's roles - at least Vikings and Samurai had women partake in all labours, even war (in Japan women were not allowed to go out and conquer though, but they made a good part of the defending garrisons and nordic sagas tell many stories of shield maidens). I'm not saying that the ancient societies were more advanced or anything (because they most definitely weren't - for every inch of liberty a homosexual had, racism, xenophoby and murder and war crimes were completely acceptable) but at least they didn't make a fuss about homosexuality on a wide level, aside from some even encouraging it amongst their warriors (spartans, samurai) while others had to simply proof they were "still" fully capable warriors (Vikings) and everybody seemed fine with it, at least according to what we can reconstruct today. What they had in common though was most likely that despite whatever sexuality someone had they were ultimately expected to produce offspring (because the society heavily depended on it). Having open homosexual relations "on the sideline" though were most likely not shunned or bothersome at all. I would assume something similiar for Klingon society, but this is only wild speculation based on the very little historical infromation we have about pre-christian cultures and more importantly because Star Trek never dared to touch the "hot topic".
The only issue I can find is that it was generally male homosexuality that was accepted in warrior cultures, officers and their batmen kind of thing. Even in societies where the women had more freedom, or were allowed to pick up a weapon, their only proper relations were to be with men.
Of course, Klingons will have different lifespans, birthrates, and all those other things that would change the position of women in the culture.
From what I can tell from the shows, females don't have much of a different position in society to males except when it comes to leadership. Males run the Council, females the Houses (though rarely as heads). Even that changes though, Gorkons daughter was Chancellor, something (according to Martok) would't be possible in the TNG era.
Kang and Kor had females on their ships in TOS and TAS, Koloth, however did not, even suggesting the Empire didn't allow for them.
Late DS9 showed many more female warriors but I guess that might be something to do with the War. The USSR commissioned female frontline soldiers in WWII. As did the TRIBBLE, though, by the end of the war they were commissioning anybody they could.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The only issue I can find is that it was generally male homosexuality that was accepted in warrior cultures, officers and their batmen kind of thing. Even in societies where the women had more freedom, or were allowed to pick up a weapon, their only proper relations were to be with men.
Of course, Klingons will have different lifespans, birthrates, and all those other things that would change the position of women in the culture.
From what I can tell from the shows, females don't have much of a different position in society to males except when it comes to leadership. Males run the Council, females the Houses (though rarely as heads). Even that changes though, Gorkons daughter was Chancellor, something (according to Martok) would't be possible in the TNG era.
Kang and Kor had females on their ships in TOS and TAS, Koloth, however did not, even suggesting the Empire didn't allow for them.
Late DS9 showed many more female warriors but I guess that might be something to do with the War. The USSR commissioned female frontline soldiers in WWII. As did the TRIBBLE, though, by the end of the war they were commissioning anybody they could.
It's hard to tell really, but I tend to agree at least partly. In ancient greece I once read (but can't recall a source) that it was explicitly encouraged to serve alongside ones lover (so no "hierarchical" kind of relationship) to boost combat morale - it was expected one would rather hold the line than to abandon their partner. As for women, I think according to what knowledge I gathered that pre-christian societies really had no real opinion about lesbians, at least in a context that would be comparable to some kind of taboo. For males it had some form of meaning (Samurai poet's wrote about the only true love can be between men and male Vikings probably had to proof their worth as warriors and men) while for females it was considered more 'naturally', but it's really hard to say as there is almost nothing of worth one can extrapolate from. At least with the Vikings we know there are terms and language describing homosexual ways of life for men and women, one source even had a part about a presumed transsexual Viking but I don't know how accurate that is, in the end it's hard to tell in what context those terms were used and how those people were seen.
Klingons have, with the odd exception that could be explained by "in-house rules", definitely overly been portrayed as a society where men and women served alongside each other, with the exceptions you mentioned - no women in the High-Council (despite a female chancellor, although by succesion after an assasination, many realms in Earth history were ruled for periods of times by women due to the "true" regent dying off, sometimes for decades) but somehow stronger presence in the houses.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The issue was never directly treated in Star Trek, be it with Klingons or anybody else. Everything hints at the fact that it should be a no-brainer to most societies but those that are deliberately portrayed as being "backwards" for the sake of morality plays, but the truth is that the people in charge (Rick Berman once said it was Paramount executives) simply didn't want homosexuals in Star Trek, period. It was a taboo then and to some people it's still today. All we got was the mere hint at a evolved society without discrimination for Earth and the UFP - but to be fair, any form of sexuality was seldom a focus for episodes. If it was mentioned it was only a plot element to drive a different perspective forward. The occasions people mention as LGBT elements in Star Trek really weren't about that at all and if they were at least I would consider them somewhat offensive even.
Actually, Star Trek touched on it twice.
Once with the story of the species that had only one gender (but some did feel like they had a different one).
The other was with Dax and her former lover. (It happened to be that both were female, but in the story, the point was that she was the lover of a former symbiont and they were not allowed to get together again.)
Both were, as usual for Trek, using metaphors, and neither ended really satisfying for the person that represented the homosexual side - but it was clear that they were the ones that we were to sympathize with.
But Trek never really bothered to show a case of homosexual "normalcy", which might have been the more useful thing to do - not even discuss it as a problem, just show it's there and people do it and no one cares (at least not any more than about any other relationship).
That's something that Cryptic actually did. The two Klingons were a couple, no mention of their relationship being problematic. Perfectly normal.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I am aware of those examples, but as I said I personally don't accept them for being a metaphor on homosexuality because, as you pointed out, if you get really into it it's pretty insulting. The Trill relationship thing (Crusher had this in TNG as well) was to illustrate a taboo in Trill society. When Crusher rejected her former lover she did so because "her abilities to love her/him are limited" - Ex Astris did a analysis and theorizes this is meant with a view on the character itself rather than the fact she is now a woman. I tend to agree because if otherwise it would be a pretty hefty blow - not because Crusher rejected her (after all, if you are heterosexual then you are heterosexual, it's no offense to reject a same sex approach) but for the message the play would have sent. Same thing with Dax, it's a Trill thing and also one of them is "actually supposed to be male" so it's not that "bad". Behind the scenes, the TRIBBLE kissing scene was even chosen to further show how much of a taboo the situation is (quotation on MA I think or Ex Astris) - thank you, it feels great to read that.
As much as I like Trek and to encourage the picture it paints of the future, they never *really* made a point where one could be made. For example the famous interracial kiss in TOS - it was a forced, mind controlled action and thus "didn't really happen" - it does influence the message quite a lot.
That's something that Cryptic actually did. The two Klingons were a couple, no mention of their relationship being problematic. Perfectly normal.
I do agree here. One thing you can point to which Cryptic actually did well in their writing
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
There was also DS9 "Rules Of Aquisition" when Pel told Dax that he/she is in love with Quark Dax reacted like it's perfectly normal. That was before it was reveiled that Pel was actually a woman disguised as a man.
Then there's Mirror Kira clearly shown as being bisexual.
There was also DS9 "Rules Of Aquisition" when Pel told Dax that he/she is in love with Quark Dax reacted like it's perfectly normal. That was before it was reveiled that Pel was actually a woman disguised as a man.
Then there's Mirror Kira clearly shown as being bisexual.
One of the Rules of Acquisition is something about sleeping with the boss. Considering all working Ferengi are males I assume it not even a thing for them.
A few Mirror characters were, though it comes off as the definition of unfortunate implications.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Sulustrike96: Welcome to the the 21st Century, if you are offended by peoples sexual orientation then why the hell are you a fan of a IP that is about respect, understanding, change and progression in it's origin?
Never understood why people are fixated on what people's sexual preference.. and don't dare to quote the bible or any other religious belief, cause religion has always been 100 years behind our progression in humanity since it became a religion.
OOps... I wandered over a Troll Bridge... Poor Goats.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
It's not mention in canon, but I imaging they view it the same way Spartans would.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Meh, he's a clone. I'm sure the Empire can just grow another.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The Klingon approach to same gender relationships has been mentioned in at least one soft canon source. The first Vanguard series novel Harbinger stated:
Not only had she forsaken Klingon tradition for the touch of other women... The inevitable, eternal reproach of her ancestors haunted Sandesjo's thoughts: They will never let me enter Sto-Vo-Kor.
This was in 2263, the Kirk era, and thankfully attitudes within the Empire appear to have evolved since then.
Like Potassium I am not bothered by it in game.
But with the Klingons I see no reason why homosexuality would be a taboo issue. They are the archetype of a warrior society, most prominently a smooth blend of Sanurai, Viking and Spartan archetypes. And non of those cultures has, to present knowledge, ever had any issues with homosexuals. Simply because the sexual ethics (not function or necessity) of man and woman is, in those cultures, a product of christian morals, as well as the basically misogynistic expectations about women's roles - at least Vikings and Samurai had women partake in all labours, even war (in Japan women were not allowed to go out and conquer though, but they made a good part of the defending garrisons and nordic sagas tell many stories of shield maidens). I'm not saying that the ancient societies were more advanced or anything (because they most definitely weren't - for every inch of liberty a homosexual had, racism, xenophoby and murder and war crimes were completely acceptable) but at least they didn't make a fuss about homosexuality on a wide level, aside from some even encouraging it amongst their warriors (spartans, samurai) while others had to simply proof they were "still" fully capable warriors (Vikings) and everybody seemed fine with it, at least according to what we can reconstruct today. What they had in common though was most likely that despite whatever sexuality someone had they were ultimately expected to produce offspring (because the society heavily depended on it). Having open homosexual relations "on the sideline" though were most likely not shunned or bothersome at all. I would assume something similiar for Klingon society, but this is only wild speculation based on the very little historical infromation we have about pre-christian cultures and more importantly because Star Trek never dared to touch the "hot topic".
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The only issue I can find is that it was generally male homosexuality that was accepted in warrior cultures, officers and their batmen kind of thing. Even in societies where the women had more freedom, or were allowed to pick up a weapon, their only proper relations were to be with men.
Of course, Klingons will have different lifespans, birthrates, and all those other things that would change the position of women in the culture.
From what I can tell from the shows, females don't have much of a different position in society to males except when it comes to leadership. Males run the Council, females the Houses (though rarely as heads). Even that changes though, Gorkons daughter was Chancellor, something (according to Martok) would't be possible in the TNG era.
Kang and Kor had females on their ships in TOS and TAS, Koloth, however did not, even suggesting the Empire didn't allow for them.
Late DS9 showed many more female warriors but I guess that might be something to do with the War. The USSR commissioned female frontline soldiers in WWII. As did the TRIBBLE, though, by the end of the war they were commissioning anybody they could.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's hard to tell really, but I tend to agree at least partly. In ancient greece I once read (but can't recall a source) that it was explicitly encouraged to serve alongside ones lover (so no "hierarchical" kind of relationship) to boost combat morale - it was expected one would rather hold the line than to abandon their partner. As for women, I think according to what knowledge I gathered that pre-christian societies really had no real opinion about lesbians, at least in a context that would be comparable to some kind of taboo. For males it had some form of meaning (Samurai poet's wrote about the only true love can be between men and male Vikings probably had to proof their worth as warriors and men) while for females it was considered more 'naturally', but it's really hard to say as there is almost nothing of worth one can extrapolate from. At least with the Vikings we know there are terms and language describing homosexual ways of life for men and women, one source even had a part about a presumed transsexual Viking but I don't know how accurate that is, in the end it's hard to tell in what context those terms were used and how those people were seen.
Klingons have, with the odd exception that could be explained by "in-house rules", definitely overly been portrayed as a society where men and women served alongside each other, with the exceptions you mentioned - no women in the High-Council (despite a female chancellor, although by succesion after an assasination, many realms in Earth history were ruled for periods of times by women due to the "true" regent dying off, sometimes for decades) but somehow stronger presence in the houses.
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Once with the story of the species that had only one gender (but some did feel like they had a different one).
The other was with Dax and her former lover. (It happened to be that both were female, but in the story, the point was that she was the lover of a former symbiont and they were not allowed to get together again.)
Both were, as usual for Trek, using metaphors, and neither ended really satisfying for the person that represented the homosexual side - but it was clear that they were the ones that we were to sympathize with.
But Trek never really bothered to show a case of homosexual "normalcy", which might have been the more useful thing to do - not even discuss it as a problem, just show it's there and people do it and no one cares (at least not any more than about any other relationship).
That's something that Cryptic actually did. The two Klingons were a couple, no mention of their relationship being problematic. Perfectly normal.
I am aware of those examples, but as I said I personally don't accept them for being a metaphor on homosexuality because, as you pointed out, if you get really into it it's pretty insulting. The Trill relationship thing (Crusher had this in TNG as well) was to illustrate a taboo in Trill society. When Crusher rejected her former lover she did so because "her abilities to love her/him are limited" - Ex Astris did a analysis and theorizes this is meant with a view on the character itself rather than the fact she is now a woman. I tend to agree because if otherwise it would be a pretty hefty blow - not because Crusher rejected her (after all, if you are heterosexual then you are heterosexual, it's no offense to reject a same sex approach) but for the message the play would have sent. Same thing with Dax, it's a Trill thing and also one of them is "actually supposed to be male" so it's not that "bad". Behind the scenes, the TRIBBLE kissing scene was even chosen to further show how much of a taboo the situation is (quotation on MA I think or Ex Astris) - thank you, it feels great to read that.
As much as I like Trek and to encourage the picture it paints of the future, they never *really* made a point where one could be made. For example the famous interracial kiss in TOS - it was a forced, mind controlled action and thus "didn't really happen" - it does influence the message quite a lot.
I do agree here. One thing you can point to which Cryptic actually did well in their writing
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Then there's Mirror Kira clearly shown as being bisexual.
One of the Rules of Acquisition is something about sleeping with the boss. Considering all working Ferengi are males I assume it not even a thing for them.
A few Mirror characters were, though it comes off as the definition of unfortunate implications.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Sulustrike96: Welcome to the the 21st Century, if you are offended by peoples sexual orientation then why the hell are you a fan of a IP that is about respect, understanding, change and progression in it's origin?
Never understood why people are fixated on what people's sexual preference.. and don't dare to quote the bible or any other religious belief, cause religion has always been 100 years behind our progression in humanity since it became a religion.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion