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Torpedoes - Photon, Quantum...

mootillmootill Member Posts: 18 Arc User
in The Academy
Trying to get a "hierarchy" of sorts from "weakest" to "strongest". What would be the correct order?

Photon
Quantum
Tri-cobalt?
Chroniton?
Plasma?
Tetryon?

Comments

  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    In terms of per-hit, it's Tri-cobalt, Quantum, Photon, Chroniton, Plasma, Transphasic. But it's more complicated than that. Transphasic torpedoes have higher bleedthrough damage than the other torps, so more of their damage bypasses the 75% damage reduction from shields. Plasma's low initial damage is offset by the damage over time from the plasma burn, which also bypasses shields. There's also firing rate to consider. Photons have the highest dps because of their refire rate, followed by Quantum, Plasma, Chroniton, Tri-cobalt, and Transphasic but again this ignores special effects. Projectile Weapons duty officers can reduce the cooldown on torpedoes, which could drastically change the dps depending on setup.

    Based on what I've read over time (and this info may be a bit out of date), ships that specialize in Torpedoes, frequently referred to as torpedo bombers, generally use either Plasma or Transphasic, depending on preference, with specialty torpedoes thrown in as well.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,254 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    It’s complicated and sometimes depends on then content being played and type of ship. I would put Quantum and Photon joint in top spot. Personally I prefer Quantum but there are valid arguments for both. Both have a list of positive and negative features over each other and it comes down to personal choice in play style.

    Tri-cobalt is arguably near the bottom of the list due to the broken cool downs with mines and lower DPS then Quantum and Photon and other problems like destroyable torpedoes.

    For PvE basic Chroniton is pretty much a waste of time. Plasma I would place in 2nd place. In theory plasma torpedoes do more damage than Quantum but if the target dies before the plasma DoT gets to do full damage which happens a lot Quantum win out. The Plasma Emission Torpdeo is one of the best torpedo's in game and if you have a high partgen setup with that its one of if not the best torpedos to use.

    Then you have the debate about cluster torpedoes, missiles, Antiproton energy torpedoes, Plasma energy torpedoes, HargPeng and others. (Plasma energy torpedo, not to be confused with Plasma Kinetic torpedo's)

    In short torpedoes don’t fit neatly into a hierarchy.
  • whistlerdavidwhistlerdavid Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    In terms of per-hit, it's Tri-cobalt, Quantum, Photon, Chroniton, Plasma, Transphasic. But it's more complicated than that. Transphasic torpedoes have higher bleedthrough damage than the other torps, so more of their damage bypasses the 75% damage reduction from shields. Plasma's low initial damage is offset by the damage over time from the plasma burn, which also bypasses shields. There's also firing rate to consider. Photons have the highest dps because of their refire rate, followed by Quantum, Plasma, Chroniton, Tri-cobalt, and Transphasic but again this ignores special effects. Projectile Weapons duty officers can reduce the cooldown on torpedoes, which could drastically change the dps depending on setup.

    Based on what I've read over time (and this info may be a bit out of date), ships that specialize in Torpedoes, frequently referred to as torpedo bombers, generally use either Plasma or Transphasic, depending on preference, with specialty torpedoes thrown in as well.
    for got to add one of the funnest torpedo's the gravimitric off the dyson line

  • mootillmootill Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Sounds like, based on the description in the first reply, it seems that Chroniton is the most "balanced".

    I currently am at level 52 with a Sovereign-class ship outfitted with two Quantum launders fore, 1 aft (all MK XII), and a MK X(?) Tri-Cobalt mine launcher aft.

    Maybe "hierarchy" was the wrong term - progression, maybe? Based on the TOS and TNG series, Photon was first, followed by Quantum, and then I dunno since I haven't followed any "non-canon" sources to see what might be next.
  • neomodiousneomodious Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    mootill wrote: »
    Sounds like, based on the description in the first reply, it seems that Chroniton is the most "balanced".

    I currently am at level 52 with a Sovereign-class ship outfitted with two Quantum launders fore, 1 aft (all MK XII), and a MK X(?) Tri-Cobalt mine launcher aft.

    Maybe "hierarchy" was the wrong term - progression, maybe? Based on the TOS and TNG series, Photon was first, followed by Quantum, and then I dunno since I haven't followed any "non-canon" sources to see what might be next.

    Timeline of torpedoes then?​​
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    A "canon" timeline would definitely place Photon and Plasma first, as both are referenced in ENT and TOS. It's impossible to say which actually was developed first as they belong to 2 different races. Quantum and Tricobalt are probably next and possibly developed around the same time. Tricobalt devices are referenced in DS9 and Voyager while Quantum Torpedoes first appeared on Sovereign and upgraded Defiant vessels. Voyager specifically states that Tricobalt devices aren't standard issue weapons though, so they may be more special case devices and may have existed earlier and were just never used until the referenced episodes. Transphasics are clearly the end of the timeline, as Future Janeway had to bring that technology back in time. Chroniton torpedoes were specifically used by the Krenim, so when they were created isn't known, but it's conceivable that they were developed along with the Annorax, possibly as an early version of a time-based weapon that didn't pan out.

    Based on Voyager, Tri-cobalt devices are far above even Quantum torpedoes in terms of destructive capability, which is reflected in the game. Transphasics and Chronitons are oddballs, however. Voyager showed that Transphasics were capable of destroying a Borg Cube in very few hits, but in the game they have the weakest base damage. Chroniton torpedoes were used by the Krenim to bypass shields due to being in temporal flux, yet this functionality belongs to Transphasics in the game.
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  • kozar2kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    If you really want to run torps I think wide angle is essential. You'll fire them much more frequently.
  • mootillmootill Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Well, not really looking to run them exclusively, just need something with "punch" to fill 2 fore and 1 aft slot, really.
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    If you want something with "punch" then I would recommend looking at the specialty torpedoes from the various reputations. The Romulan Hyperplasma, the Omega Plasma, the Dyson Gravimetric, and the Delta Neutronic are all great weapons in their own right depending on your ship build.
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  • mootillmootill Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Ok, thanks for the feedback on this. Really helped out a lot, as far as information to go on.
  • somebobsomebob Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    I thought the answer to that question was a Beam Array.​​
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  • vorwodavorwoda Member Posts: 699 Arc User
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    [SNIP]
    Tricobalt devices are referenced in DS9 and Voyager while Quantum Torpedoes first appeared on Sovereign and upgraded Defiant vessels. Voyager specifically states that Tricobalt devices aren't standard issue weapons though, so they may be more special case devices and may have existed earlier and were just never used until the referenced episodes.
    [SNIP]

    In fact, Tricobalt weapons are referenced in TOS, (at least virtually). In "A Taste of Armageddon", the Enterprise is classified as destroyed (in the Eminiar-Venikar computer war) by a "Tricobalt satellite explosion".
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    vorwoda wrote: »
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    [SNIP]
    Tricobalt devices are referenced in DS9 and Voyager while Quantum Torpedoes first appeared on Sovereign and upgraded Defiant vessels. Voyager specifically states that Tricobalt devices aren't standard issue weapons though, so they may be more special case devices and may have existed earlier and were just never used until the referenced episodes.
    [SNIP]

    In fact, Tricobalt weapons are referenced in TOS, (at least virtually). In "A Taste of Armageddon", the Enterprise is classified as destroyed (in the Eminiar-Venikar computer war) by a "Tricobalt satellite explosion".

    Huh, looks like I missed that because I only looked up Tricobalt Device in Memory Alpha. Looking up just Tricobalt reveals the romulans used Tricobalt in their cloaked mines in the ENT episode Minefield. Apparently Tricobalt is an element and was discovered (by the Federation at least, reasonable to assume other races found it earlier) in 2192. It's not clear when they were first developed but maybe they even predate Photon torpedoes?
    The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    vorwoda wrote: »
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    [SNIP]
    Tricobalt devices are referenced in DS9 and Voyager while Quantum Torpedoes first appeared on Sovereign and upgraded Defiant vessels. Voyager specifically states that Tricobalt devices aren't standard issue weapons though, so they may be more special case devices and may have existed earlier and were just never used until the referenced episodes.
    [SNIP]
    In fact, Tricobalt weapons are referenced in TOS, (at least virtually). In "A Taste of Armageddon", the Enterprise is classified as destroyed (in the Eminiar-Venikar computer war) by a "Tricobalt satellite explosion".
    Huh, looks like I missed that because I only looked up Tricobalt Device in Memory Alpha. Looking up just Tricobalt reveals the romulans used Tricobalt in their cloaked mines in the ENT episode Minefield. Apparently Tricobalt is an element and was discovered (by the Federation at least, reasonable to assume other races found it earlier) in 2192. It's not clear when they were first developed but maybe they even predate Photon torpedoes?
    Also, the Tholians used them in TOS to open that spatial rift. They didn't fire them at the Enterprise though. Maybe the Feds developed Photons to limit collateral damage?
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  • rekurzionrekurzion Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    the grav photon is nice with several effects (the grav well w/ additional kinetic damage). if you invest in the adapted MACO set (only need 2 of the pieces) you get the 25% boost to torp damage and the proton particle stabilizer for another 26% photon torp damage boost and save yourself the tac slots. getting the 3 piece protonic arsenal gets you an additional beam weapon and 10% crits for your torps, but photon only. you would want to be invested in exotic damage to maximize the grav well damage. add kinetic shearing and the trait which boost weapon damage by how much power you have in aux, use HY whatever and it's a very nice weapon. it would be useful to have something that holds targets in place or groups them together to take full advantage.

    tricobalts can be useful for punch with the added benefit of repel and placating your target. but it will take getting used to running with high yield torps.

    quantums with some tac console investment are also a good choice for some punch using HY 2 or 3. of course you want to debuff and buff resistance as much as you can afford in your build.

    you mention you want punch, but when do you want it? while your targets shields are up? after they have fallen?
  • mootillmootill Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    At any time, really. I've found that the tricobalts work great against the Jem-Hadar attack fighters. One hit, and they are basically TOAST.
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