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So was the war cut short? What happened to the Dominion lead in from Delta Rep?
tigeraries
Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
Seems like this war got aborted cause it stank and the users fled... what was all that build up with the Delta Rep Data Info about Sela going to the Gamma Quad to get the help of the Founders? is this gonna be like a repeat of that whole Year of Hell on Voyager... total waste of broadcast time since it all resets.
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My character Tsin'xing
T5 rep log more or less spells it out: they ain't going to help. The Delta Recruit dialog options with the dominion also said this was exactly the response we should have been expecting (it was something along the lines of "when they come, don't ask us for help.")
Basically the whole "getting the founders on our side" sela side story was just that, a side story. It cropped up early on in the season to explain why a certain part of the ST universe wasn't going to factor into this season (without having to dedicate a mission or parts of a mission, allowing them to do other things.)
Well, I think from the latest blog entry the war is going to have a definite, conventionally won, ending (it did for the mirror universe, they won and they know they've won. They didn't just hit the delete key on the Iconians.)
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I know they said the Dominion decided to wait and face the victor, and the Iconians don't want to fight the Dominion either, but it doesn't make sense that other than the krenim we ain't getting any help from any allied species.
The Undine promised to help, the delta alliance promised to help, so did the Xindi and the Cardassians so where are they? so far I failed to see any single ship.
The Voth, they have an armada so large they can fight the the klingon-rom-fed alliance, the undine and the borg at the same time, so where are they?
The Vaadwaur, the Kobali, the cooperative and the rest of the delta alliance, where are they? I'm pretty sure they want revenge after what the Iconians did to their quadrant.
The Collective, incredibly advanced Iconian tech at their reach, yet somehow they are not swarming the Iconian fleet like africanized bees, they've also shown the capability to reach a truce while facing a great menace, I'm pretty sure their transwarp network will come in handy to counter the Iconian gate advantage, and their drones will do as shock-troopers.
The Breen, fierce warriors, I'm pretty sure they would jump at the first chance to face a galaxy wide menace.
The Tholians are highly xenophobic, are you telling me that they refuse to fight the Iconians? even if they don't help the alliance, why aren't they engaging the Iconians at all? the Iconians attacked them, while invading New Romulus they killed Romulans and Tholians alike, right now they should be mounting a high scale revenge offensive.
If Sela meets the Dominion, it should be in a cutscene with a visual on-screen T minus 10 seconds and counting to being impaled by a Jem'Hadar.
I haven't finished the story yet - my main is level 56. But that just seemed a little ridiculous to me.
One word: Odo. That's why the Founders might ally with the Alpha Quadrant.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But no Jem'Hadar should deprive me of my long-awaited execution of Sela. In fact, the only NPC I would defer to in this is D'Tan. He can kill Sela. Any other NPC kills her? I would be livid. Okay, maybe tr'Obisek could manage to do it without arousing my wrath.
The command bioship promised help, not an straight "I'm gonna send a huge fleet to assist you right now" but it said "The many will be strong, the strong will survive", that sounds like an alliance.
The Iconians did attack the Undine and are capable of entering fluidic space, they consider that an act of aggression, so why ain't we getting the Undine's help?
The voth and the borg got their asses kicked, but that doesn't mean we wiped their fleets, the Voth still have a massive fleet and control a huge part of the Dyson sphere, and the borg still control at least one unicomplex and the transwarp network, and, even if your fleets are barely non-existent, the Iconians plan to wipe everyone from the galaxy, I'm pretty sure I would use whatever resources I have and try to stop them rather than doing nothing.
Breen space is not far away from Cardassian and the Cardassians promised help, they even sent a legate to the Iconian threat meeting, and we've sen the Breen reach Earth undetected, so we know they can reach the beta quadrant easily.
The Tholians are near the Romulan republic and Klingon space, the fact that they keep fleets near new Romulus and a ground contingent of troops on new Romulus is proof enough, they are in the middle of the fray.
We didn't send our whole fleet to the delta quadrant, but we did send an expeditionary force, I'm guessing the delta alliance can do the same, specially since we can resupply their ships and we have a direct link between the 2 quadrants, in fact it's better for them to send a fleet to protect new Romulus, if new Romulus falls so does the Iconian gate leading straight to the delta quadrant.
But none of that matters, we are not getting help from those species because of lazy storytelling, it makes no sense that we are fighting a galaxy wide threat and only 3 powers from the beta quadrant are fighting the invaders.
I don't care who does it or how many times, Im shooting the corpse a few more times to make sure it sticks...
this season was the worst flop of writing and ideas.... 5yrs of build up and weaving threads and the Cryptic shat on its own baby and left it to suffocate and die
With the Deltas, we do know that there are Iconian-aligned forces active in the Delta Quadrant (the Iconians still regard at least some Vaadwaur as aligned as of House Pegh, as borne out by the actions of the Vaadwaur in Time in a Bottle, and of course the latter mission also shows Heralds in the Delta Quadrant), so I'm going to guess that while the Delta allies could send an expeditionary force, they're focusing on fighting the Iconians on home-ground, too (that might well have been part of the idea behind the 'remove the modern Vaadwaur resurgence' concept one of the Butterfly teams had worked on - make the Delta Quadrant less Iconian-affected so that timeline's Delta Alliance can feel freer to send forces over to the Beta Quadrant, alternatively force the Iconians to put more of their forces in the Delta Quadrant to stop them from happening).
With the current Cardassian canon for STO, the CDF is indicated to be a rather small, weak force by the standards of larger interstellar governments. The lack of a follow-up on that one Cardassian in Blood of the Ancients is annoying, and I'd have expected at least some Cardassian input on planning, but the lack of Cardassian forces in the missions we've had does make sense in that context - they might be part of the Alliance, but they have even less forces available to move from system defence to place at the Alliance's disposal for whatever operations Kagran comes up with this week than the Romulans.
Also what if the Undine are fighting the Iconians or thier survitors, but only in fluidic space as the Iconians know if the undine were to join the Aliance in normal space the chances of thier defeat would be much higher as the Undine do seem alot more advanced than most an closer to the Iconain's level. THough i also wonder if the Undine are adapting an evolving their ships and selves to be more effective against the Iconains an thier servitors. I still want the Undine Vila cruiser though, so i hope we see a undine story arc along those lines an also a undine lockbox.
Any RR character (NPC) has a claim to kill her, but D'Tan is the least likely to. He's a Vulcan by all but birth. Obisek, Jarak. the PC, any of them would be a better choice.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Y'see, here's the thing with what you're saying. I'm not saying that you're wrong. You're not. People like whom you're talking to want to SEE IT. They want 500 missions describing how Race X is or isn't getting involved or how Planet Y is being invaded. They want STFs portraying these fights. They don't want simple battles here and there, they want this season to rival the Dominion War in scale and they want to see it IN THEIR FACE!
But, if there's anyone to blame, it's Stephen D'Angelo. Season 9, Delta Rising and Season 10 were his adventures. His mindless grinds with very little story reasoning behind it. I'm starting to think that the only reason we HAVE the Tales of the War saga is because there weren't any backstory at first. I honestly think that D'Angelo wanted to toss Season 10 at us and go "Here, have fun!"
I wouldn't mind them putting the war back on the shelf for a time. I would be more than eager to give them a pass on this past season if this really is not the last we see of the Iconian and Herald war machine. I would of course like to implore them to do a much and I do mean MUCH BETTER job of writing the Iconian war, Act II.
Yeah, no. You see, while D'Tan wouldn't be likely to go on a search and destroy mission, or otherwise seek Sela out with the goal of ending her, he is not "Vulcan by all but birth," as so many of the pro-RSE/Tal'Shiar crowd have attempted to portray him. He is Romulan. New Romulan, perhaps, but still Romulan. Here are two bits of lore with which you need to come to terms, both from soft canon materials (which Cryptic used as inspiration sources when coming up with "Path to 2409" and the in-game lore connected with the RRF), and one of them supported by hard canon:
1. Followers of the teachings of Surak (the philosophy which Surak actually taught, mind you, and not the pseudo-religion into which the Vulcan establishment had diluted Surak's teachings and was trying to impose on the population in order to enforce conformity) were among those who went on na Hwael (the Journey). This is supported by TNG episodes "Unification, Part I" and "Unification, Part II." The fact that D'Tan is a Surakian is irrelevant to his "Romulanness."
2. S'task was one of the leaders of the Exiles in the Journey. S'task had previously been one of Surak's disciples. The reason he stopped following Surak's teachings is one of the key things that made Romulans into Romulans. It came about when S'task got a large dose of reality which convinced him that absolute pacifism was tantamount to suicide and/or willing slavery. Romulans need not be bellicose warmongers always spoiling for a fight (the Trek universe already has Klingons whom they can turn into that type of caricature, anyway), but recognition that absolute pacifism is foolhardy is one of the defining characteristics of "Romulanness" ab origine. Had S'task been able to convince Surak of this after his experiences, he likely would have remained a disciple of the latter. As it happened, he did not, and so he did not, instead reverting back to Ajoisam (Elementalism) and became an Agnostic.
If Sela attempted to kill D'Tan (which I don't believe anyone would put past her, if she were presented with the opportunity), I have every confidence that D'Tan would defend himself even to the point of taking her life. Because, Surakian or no, he is Romulan. And if he did this (and were a bit older), I would marry him. *nod*
My character Tsin'xing
But, this is the thing: even if there are backstory things all the way back to "Minefield" PVE mission, these people don't want this. They don't want a "Blog War", they want the ICONIAN WAR with blood and guts and planets exploding and empty ships littering the galaxy as you fly by in warp. They want to warp to other worlds to ask for help or to save them from the Heralds. They want the Iconians to be the Founders and the Heralds to be the Jem'Hadar. They want this to be the Dominion War Mk. II and they're angry because it isn't.
Maybe the Krenim, Zahl and Nihydron built up a fleet in secret... then poof... the Vaadwaur went bye bye... Krenim as a bad guy... then over the course of several episodes about the Krenim firing the Lazor of anti time / death / puppies ...
Somehow one of the Servitor races figure it out and destroy the Krenim Timeship and BOOM... Then we move onto the Iconian War.
a few extra missions, a couple of queued missions and an extra reputation was about all I was expecting and that's just about all we got.
of course a lot of players also expected raids at earth space dock and qo'nos and that's never going to happen, just think of the fuss some players make if there are disco balls activated then imagine how much more they would complain if the social areas were spoilt by an iconian invasion.
perhaps with the next season players will reign in their expectations and not be so disappointed.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
-Check the conversation again, specially the context
CS: The weak will perish
T: The iconians will kill you ... to the Iconians you are weak
CS: we must survive
T: when we fight one another we are weak, together we are strong
CS: we must see to our needs
T: the needs of the many ...
CS: the many will be strong, the strong will survive
Sound like they are acknowledging they need to ally with us to survive.
-The Voth still control a large area of the Sphere, where does the game say the undine kicked the Voth's asses? The undine attacked the Voth space zone, then we kicked the Undine's asses before they could destroy the Voth, then the Voth came with a massive fleet, then the fleet retreated.
The Voth still have a fleet in Voth space, they sent and expeditionary force to the sphere (like we did) to move the sphere to Voth space and so they could use the sphere's omega molecule generator to isolate Voth space from the rest of the galaxy.
But lets suppose that, unlike us, they sent most of their fleet and lost most of their fleet, that still doesn't answers the question of why they aren't fighting the Iconians, again the Iconians are a bigger threat than us and the undine combined, for the shake of the argument lets say they've lost 95% of their fleet, it makes more sense to attack the Iconians with that remaining 5% than waiting and hoping the Iconian won't purge them.
-The Voth and the Undine fought the borg at the unicomplex, but the destruction of the unicomplex only happens if you fail the objectives, if you complete the queue and complet all objectives, you defeat the Undine and the Voth, the complex remains intact and a lot of drones are integrated into the Cooperative, still, borg space is massive, even if they lose one unicomplex that doesn't mean they'll lose all their fleet and it doesn't mean they won't fight the Iconians, the borg want Iconian tech and following borg logic they'll send as many ships and drones as they need to get that tech.
-The Breen are close enough to the fray, and they can bypass federation space, but even if they don't I highly doubt the federation will declare war on some guys that are attacking the Iconians and ignoring the federation just because they crossed through federation space.
-Tholian space borders Cardassian and federation space, but I said the Tholains, not their space, they can transport ships from their space to Romulan space via subspace corridors, the Iconians attacked their forces, the Tholians are highly xenophobic, that sounds like reason enough to me for a counter attack, plus I don't think the Tholians would like the Iconians seizing control of the Azure nebula subspace corridors.
-Handful of ships? nonsense, we destroyed the fleet defending Gaul and killed Gaul but we didn't destroy the entire Waadvaur armada and I'm pretty sure they are pissed off and want revenge, the Hazari and the Benthans are a force to be reckoned with and the Borg Cooperative should be strong enough after borg disconnected to constitute a major power, and, as I said, it's on their best interest to send ships to defend the Romulan gate, right now the Iconians cannot attack the delta quadrant without moving the Herald sphere or controlling the Romulan gate.
Also, why so rude? we have different interpretations, but you are just acting as if you are holding the supreme truth and I'm an idiot, I don't like that attitude, if you plan on responding with that attitude again please don't bother responding at all.
No no they werent. In fact this whole Iconian Story Arc has had the most plotholes Ive seen in a storyline in a long time. Its literally made everything we've worked for over the last 5 years seem useless. And a good bit of your information is faulty and was never covered.