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Engineer Fabrications
stalagmite
Member Posts: 37 Arc User
I would love to see engineer fabrications such as the turret, mortar, shield dome etc match up to chroniton mine barrier and the drones activation speed and ability to use on the fly. being held in an animation for as long as it is now is just not good.
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In Pve, those pets should deal significant damage for Eng.
The common mistake I see about Engs who use mortars and turrets is they spend as much time firing their weapons like a tac when they should spend most of their time respawning the pets aka turrets/mortars/drones, etc.
Other times I see Eng whose fabrication is too slow is when players are really slow at respawning those fabrications. Nor know where and when to spawn them. Probably due to the lack of knowledge of keybinds or the like.
So yes, player skill really is tied to spawning fabrication and maximizing fabrications rather than imbalance perception of spawn time of mortars and turrets.
Chroniton mine barrier does not lock you in an animation preventing you from moving but you cannot just place it anywhere or it will have no effect. it is a perfect example of why turrets and generators need to share that animation speed. for example an engineer could lay his/her mine then turret/generator without being flank shot because now you aren't locked from moving and can begin firing again. lets not forget engineer is the actual tank of the game and a tank being stuck in an animation means no threat is gained and some of your less tanky team members or boff will die from being concentrated on.
It is hard to compare ground pve and ground pve. However since we are only talking about ground pve, I beg to differ. Different skill set is required with different difficulty. This includes different group quality composition.
Certain players have made turrets/mortars work effectively at optimal levels even with a group of tacs doing more than 1k+ dps. Now if it is not a question skill, why do you think some players can make them work and some cannot?
Now, instead of complaining This thread or making this kind of thread, I suggest you ask how they make it work and what type of build they use to make it effectively or a thread asking for that kind of help,
i dont need to conform to someone elses style of play everyone plays differently. my play style is the free movement combat style ground combat offers if i wanted to stand in one place just to cast an ability there are other MMO games that cater to that style. this thread is not a complaint. the people able to make turrets and mortars work are happy just being casting type engineers who stand in the back and thats fine but that is not the only way engineers can play especially since it can play the front line role because *tank class*.
Since turrets and mortars work on free movement combat. That is if a player can make it work which goes back to skill of the player.
However, if a player is incapable doing free movement combat using turrets and mortars, then that player should use a different build. There are other viable eng builds out there. The mines and the t5 delta should account for 400 Dps each respectively. then, you got the weapons, orbital bomb, trans bomb which accounts for at least 200 Dps each. That total amount of Dps is already overkill for even the hardest ground elite stf. Of course, all these boils down if that player can make those current mechanics work.
I agree here. Considering that Elachi NPC’s turrets already show their full effect before the setup animation even is half way finished this is plain and simple an unfair set back for the player who use such abilities.
My engineering toons shine on ground in bad to average teams very much. No chance for them to compete to my tacs in faster matches though. Animation/Activation times are part of the problem.
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transphasic bomb, medical generator, shield generator, turret, mortar, orbital strike all lock you in an animation saying that they work in free combat movement situations means what? sure i can make them work by simply using them but here is the kicker and the thing it seems you are not understanding. It stops the flow of combat anything that takes away from mobility STOPS THE FLOW OF COMBAT. my suggestion doesn't hurt current builds it only adds efficiency imo when someone tries to say there is nothing wrong GG but learn to play without a proper argument they hold back improvement.
im glad you understand the point im trying to get across ^_^
This shows the limit of both of your skill in using Eng or refusal to improve the skill in Eng.
With my eng, I have been playing with top tac DPS players in fast matches. And they can compete at the level of top players using tacs in fast matches. The timing of stuff is totally different in bad to average teams vs fast high dps tac teams because you have a lot of slack time to spawn those in bad to average teams.
Like I said, If you are both incapable of making these things work, did you guys even trying to adjust your build to fit on the level of your skill?
You chose not to improve by not asking the top eng players how they make it work. You chose not to change ones build. Both of which I said in this thread in the above post. You instead chose to demand change of mechanics and continuously insist on it even though pointed out many times that it works in that build and can work in different builds for Eng.
VD is correct that shows how much fragile egos are going around in STO forums to accept that it is the players fault and blame the mechanics instead.
rather than make subtle insults how about constructive feedback that is on topic the way those kit powers work adds to the combat being sluggish i have no other issues with using said powers in any situation i would love for them to feel less sluggish and like I've said previously my suggestion won't change the way builds are played they just make the kit powers more efficient. Either provide a valid argument or just dont reply. subtle insults about player skill is shows that elitist attitude i see in most games.
O I did make suggestions. which is change your build or ask how other experts how they make it work. There is no way to point out the obvious when a poster is in denial that is a player skill than to be blunt about it.
Since if other players can make it work, you should to. There are other builds for eng that can make those work. The question would be if you are open to changing your build and/or if not increasing the capability of playing your Eng which is currently the problem.
Like I said in my previous post, it would been better if you posted a build help thread instead rather than insist on change mechanics thread.
telling me i should change my build or the way i play because you think im not playing my own character properly is not a valid argument to my suggestion. i have already said that my only problems with these kit powers is their sluggish feel in free movement combat. now how did you derive DPS or lack of ability to use them properly from that? just because other people can deal with playing with them the way they are does not mean there is no problem. this post is to address that those kit powers are sluggish and disrupt the flow of combat.
example: STF is laggy but people still put up with it and play. does that mean there is no problem?
a pulsewave assault fires but there is no animation but the damage is still being dealt and people put up with it but does that mean there is no problem? its like talking to the wall. if you feel there is no problem that is your opinion.
The only valid argument is yours? Lag=/ skill. How can be it a game mechanics problem when others can make turrets/mortars work, not only that, those who don't use mortars and turrets make other eng abilities highly effective?
Look at this you believe the problem is the animation, i told you learn from players who have optimize turrets and mortars how they spawn them faster. Now, if you cannot make turrets/mortars work or dislike making them faster or accepting you need to improve, disregard turrets and mortars as part of your build, and use other eng abilities.
Why should the devs waste time on changing this when you have in game solutions for it? And the in game solutions are being flatly rejected by choice? All your arguments is basically the same as most other change mechanics in this forum, "I, players I know , players who agree with me cannot personally do it therefore the devs must change since I refuse to improve myself and learn to optimize even though here are in game solutions for it."
Having said that, Who is hitting wall, eh?
Yea quiet correct. Considering how long it takes even for mines to become active (even though the animation is quick) this ability is also kinda slow. Cryptic tinkered around with that over the years a bit because they as well as transphasic bombs are quiet devastating. A few seasons ago bombs had much less hit points so enemies even close to them detonated em automatically leaving you without cd on this ability. Deployed mines also became active much sooner. Back at that time my ground engineer was my most damage dealing toon in hive but it was adjusted by cryptic because it probably felt too powerful.
Nowadays one plays tacs with Concussive Tachyon Emission augmented by so many fast activated abilities that it feels the other way around and hardly makes me bother with engineering toons setting up toys especially in speed runs. Of course from a “I know anyway what’s going to happen next because I play the same handful maps all the time so I can set up my gadgets well in advance at the right location to score high in some nerd charts” there is always room for optimisation. However, like you say, it stops the “flow” of combat quiet a bit and puts you on a disadvantage side in every not-routine situation, not to mention PvP.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
where did i say change the mechanics? the mechanics will remain the same but in addition it will not block movement see this is how i can tell you aren't reading. you also assume you can put words in my mouth as an attempt to make an argument. I'm not telling the devs to do anything I'm asking if they can do it. after all that is what the feedback forum is for. you do not have the right to judge which topic has relevance you are not a dev nor do you work for cryptic you are a player and i will ask that you show some respect when addressing others. every player in this community has a right to their opinions and no one has the right to force anything upon anyone so ill say it again i dont conform to peoples build or style of play there is nothing wrong with my style of play in fact i clear the objectives as efficiently as i can when i do play with others while communicating with them. want to know what i use in my build and this will suprise you. Kit powers:Nano Medical generator, Chroniton Mine, Seeker Drone, Equipment Diagnostics, universal kit module from uneasy allies because i usually have all the aggro.
when you activate it the animation makes you crouch down there is a period you have to wait till you can move again for chroniton mine when you activate it there is no movement restriction same goes for the drone kit powers. if you're used to casting abilities in one place and only moving to get out of ground target aoe you might not notice it but for some people who are always moving in combat it is quite noticable.
Which doesnt address why it needs to be change.
If you are a tank, you dont need your pets doing damage to get the aggro since in this game tanking is directly proportional to your DPS. If you deal less DPS, one becomes a useless tank. If you let pets deal DPS, you lose aggro. Those pets are like warp shadow decoys and the like that screws aggro.
Performance wise its like asking FAW should be given more efficient ways of firing faster thru faster animation. The turrets and mortars are already overpowered in the right player but like all other abilities not as effective or even useless to those who dont know how to optimize it.
Then you also got an issue of build. If I were asked to build an optimized ground tank eng, I would use a totally different build from mortars and turrets since those mortars, turrets would occupy 2 kit space which would help me in getting aggro and tanking instead. If you are not aiming for a tank eng build, there are other eng abilities there which helps efficiency and or compensate for the lack pets. For example, The current top eng ground player is even using fuse armor which for the masses popularly known as a useless ground ability and relies on t5 delta, mines with little regard or performance from weapons, turrets and mortars.
my explanation is inline with my original post at the start of the thread
i treat fuse armor like fire on my mark. they are both best used on strong targets. just because someone can tank doesn't mean they should also stop contributing to DPS. from what I've seen the pets will get attacked regardless of if you have all the aggro or not. tested and found it to be true. If you haven't realized yet i don't care what the so called top engineer does because what he does has no relevance to how i or others play. You are still saying the same thing which when summed is learn to play by conforming to someone build or style of play. if that is all you have to say on the matter your opinion is noted but telling people that they should play like other people is unwanted and not needed in this thread.
With that said, I dunno. I would have to agree with the OP. The whole crouching animation thing is sorta time-consuming and unnecessary. Considering the Pet is beaming in anyways, I think the 'tapping on the forearm' animation would be fine. I would also like to point out that the Iconic Rep Generator does not use the crouching animation.
Personally, I would like to see a mobile turret that follows like the Drone. Maybe one like the little Vaadwaur walker pet! It doesn't have to replace out current turrets, but it would be another option.
that is a fantastic idea love it.