Energy Weapons Only or mix with Torpedo

rsantix · June 2015

My Questions is:
What is decisive factor choosing an energy wp (beams,cannons whatever) only build vs energy wp + torpedos.
Lets assume i have a ship with good turn rate..
Thanks!

primar13 · June 2015

Well the Starship Trait from this years Risian Summer Event Ship, benefits a mixed build.

I tend though to run my Builds All beams... I also have a Full Torp/Mine Build.

I am not however a build master

rsantix · June 2015

Thanks!
Can you tell what made you choose all beams in general...simply more dps?
What do you do for kinetic damage?

primar13 · June 2015

For my Torpedo Build.

I try to run a Mixed Bag of Torps...

I try to get different ones since they have different procs and Abilities. I also run Torpedo Spread 3

Torpedo Spread has a 100% Hit Chance... you cannot miss...

I chose to Run my Torp Build on a Science Toon, because since I wasn't going to need Weapon Power, I could funnel it all into Auxiliary and Really boost my Science Abilities.

I have not actually played this toon in a few months as I have been tied up with my Delta Recruits.

If you want this is my build. http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=squishynicor_5153

I'm gonna leave you to the more knowledgeable guys

gavinruneblade · June 2015

Any use of torpedo's is a reduction in damage. That said, torpedoes are absolutely viable (there are several build experts who specialize in them). But the current fad of all beams is because it is higher damage. The biggest reason is the 75% damage reduction if your enemy has 1-point of shielding when your torp hits.

Personally, I love them and almost always have one. I am particularly fond of the special ones like the crafted one that drops warp plasma, the gravimetric, neutronic and the funky crystalline antiproton one.

One particular thing I enjoy is that the neutronic torpedo has a power drain, so I put it on many of my draining science builds.

Levelling a good quantum or photon torpedo is very fun and effective. End game I move to the special ones mentioned above.

e30ernest · June 2015

Generally speaking, if you want to maximize your DPS, then a mixed build isn't the best way to go. You'll be spending valuable points in skills, slots for BOffs and consoles to make a respectable mixed build. That said, you can create a mixed build that does decent enough damage to get you through advanced content.

Don't get me wrong, you can create an energy weapon-centered ship with a torpedo and still deal very high DPS numbers. It just isn't going to be easy.

For torpedo builds, you can bring in energy weapons to proc other things such as the T6 Veteran Ship's trait, or shield penetration through beam overload or plasma explosions. My build in my signature below is an example of such a build. In this case, energy weapons will take a backseat to your torpedoes. These ships can be pretty busy to fly, but they are a whole lot of fun (at least to me).

Again, you won't see torpedo builds topping the DPS sheets as the game stands now, because there are too many things going against it in the game mechanics. However, some players (like Oden Knight) has taken torpedo builds to a whole different level and deal massive damage and really high DPS numbers.

captmars2525 · June 2015

So then, what are the most basic principles of all-energy or all-beam builds? I'm not going to completely re-work my characters and ships, but I'd like to evolve in that direction with some of them.

I've generally done a mix of beams and torps, as that is where the game seems to lead you at first. It's been fun but I would like some variety and better DPS. I'm no min-maxer by far but am finding the need to up my performance with the Delta quadrant missions and the Iconians. Blowing up and respawning is not fun.

Is it just putting beam weapons in and aligning consoles? I know there are many variables in ships, careers, boffs, doffs etc. Don't have a ton of EC either, so can't buy it all. Besides specific builds, what are the most simple things I could do to get started in that direction?

Thanks, love the thread and responses!

gradii · June 2015

I normally go with mostly energy weapons, but I ALWAYS have at least one torpedo tube in my build, unless it's a shuttle.

It just feels wrong not to have one.

gradii · June 2015

gavinruneblade wrote: »

The biggest reason is the 75% damage reduction if your enemy has 1-point of shielding when your torp hits.

Something which seriously needs fixing. Torpedoes should do higher damage the less shields you have, at 1 point of shields it should do 99% of damage.

Still, torpedoes work amazingly with shield drain focused Sci builds, due to their ability to drop enemy shields quickly.

Unknown · June 2015

This content has been removed.

gavinruneblade · June 2015

The nukara console is pretty good too with its accuracy and particle gen bonus. Especially n forward dbb builds who often use gravwell to pull everyone ino a group then fire at will. Thus the nukara boosts all your weapons plus the grav well.

And the fleet embasy science console are a massive source of damage (for fire at will only due to a bug preventing crits with any other attack). Get the mrk 10s and upgrade because it is half the price of mark 12 and gives two "free" chances to upgrade to epic.

gavinruneblade · June 2015

> @gradii said:
>
> Still, torpedoes work amazingly with shield drain focused Sci builds, due to their ability to drop enemy shields quickly.

The synergy goes both ways. Torps don't need weapon power so a drain build with torps can focus on aux making the drains more powerful too. And, as I mentioned, the neutronic torpedo has a drain built in.

rsantix · June 2015

Wow, thanks for all the great answers!

Like Gradii i just dont like having no torpedos, and i was hoping to find a way to max DPS while keeping the torpedo fun..
However the consensus seems to be that unless you focus on torpedos the mix just wont perform as well.
I also think that making the dmg reduction depending on the enemy shield strenght would make sense and solve part of this problem.

gavinruneblade · June 2015

Keep in mind "won't work as well" is a very far different thing from "doesn't work well enough".

Having a torpedo without tactical console or traits backing it up won't break your ship, and if it increases your fun, then its worth it. Sure a beam would do more. So what? Is this a game or a contest?

thissler · June 2015

It isn't always a DPS loss. It really is dependent on the overall build and item level, as well as the team environment. And also the torpedo. In short, lower gear/space traits/everything else, then the easier it is to mix torpedoes and energy and see a gain or at least certainly not a loss.
Remember there's a huge difference between maximizing your dps with the maximum dps achievable in the game. At any point you as an individual may have vastly different needs and situations than a player that is simply blowing up gates for fun. (and it IS fun, don't get me wrong)

Because of what Torpedoes and Mines do, and how they do it, they are good dps but GREAT utility weapons. They are GREAT exploit weapons. The are GREAT threat weapons.

So there are things to consider beyond "how much damage will this parse'.

gradii · June 2015

Torpedoes are amazing on burst damage builds (punches holes in shields) or shield drain builds, since they ARE high damage provided the enemy has NO shields on the facing which was hit.

1 point of shields, and the damage takes a major dive though

cptnskyfire · July 2015

I don't think I'm an expert builder or anything but I have found that it really depends greatly upon the ship and your play style, for example, on my phantom I run 2 phaser cannons and 2 dual heavy phaser cannons fore, and all phaser turrets aft, the high maneuverability made the torps a liability because to get them to fire you have to keep them aimed straight at your target too long, however on my eclipse I run mix of beams and torps because it hasn't got the high maneuverability so the torps have a longer time to fire, the lower maneuverability also makes beams more efficient than cannons and turrets.

The above is simply what I have found works, individual results may vary.

raj011 · July 2015

Which torpedo moves the fastest? I read that the higher the damage the slower it moves, is this true? If it is, then it will mean photons are the fastest in the game. Could someone list the speeds with the fastest to start with please?

gavinruneblade · July 2015

Whoever told you that is completely wrong. Neither travel speed nor reload speed is directly linked to damage. Fastest travel speed is by far the harpeng. But it also has terrible DPS because of its slow reload time.

If you only consider traditional torpedoes, not the specialty ones.
Photons are highest sustained damage, chroniton are worst
Quantum's are highest burst, chroniton are worst

For highest shield penetration standard photon beats transphasic because 10% of the photon sustained damage is higher than 30% of the transphasic TRIBBLE damage and slow firing speed. The rapid reload transphasic and breen cluster are notable exceptions.

Of the specialty torps the neutronic, gravimetric, and plasma emission are top damage. Special mention to the crystal antiproton and lobi plasma if you use those damage consoles anyway.

ryugasirius · July 2015

rsantix wrote: »

My Questions is:
What is decisive factor choosing an energy wp (beams,cannons whatever) only build vs energy wp + torpedos.
Lets assume i have a ship with good turn rate..
Thanks!

The decisive factor here is if you care more about DPS or Trekness. Pure DPS builds are more efficient with all beams (mostly because every single weapon slot benefits from all tactical consoles). But that single torpedo feels... more Star Trek!

Personally, I'd rather have separate weapon slots (hardpoints, whatever) for cannon/beam and torpedo/mine weapons, but that had to be done from the beginning, it's hard to do now.

lilchibiclari · July 2015

gradii wrote: »

gavinruneblade wrote: »

The biggest reason is the 75% damage reduction if your enemy has 1-point of shielding when your torp hits.

Something which seriously needs fixing. Torpedoes should do higher damage the less shields you have, at 1 point of shields it should do 99% of damage.

Still, torpedoes work amazingly with shield drain focused Sci builds, due to their ability to drop enemy shields quickly.

I agree. The shield bleedthrough should be inversely proportional to the amount of shields remaining. Maybe only 60-80% bleedthrough at 1% shields, but it should be higher for low shields than for full shields. Additionally, we could have some of the "enhance shield hardness" BOFF abilities also reduce the bleedthrough rate while they are active.

e30ernest · July 2015

Actually I'm fine with bleedthrough remaining constant all the way down to 1%. Shield hardness/resistance should go down though. So while most torps won't pass through shields, at least they can start dealing massive damage to it as the shield weakens.

Energy Weapons Only or mix with Torpedo

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