I got to thinking, if this happened for real, could we fight them off?
It's a nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.
if aliens did come to earth, understanding them without a context is a problem. thats the problem, they are "alien" to us we wouldnt have a hope, now its possible they could be understood quickly or they are so far outside our own understanding.
in war you got two sides, in war you need understanding and intelligence, without understanding the aliens motivations and they understood ours easily enough, it would simply be a waste of time trying.
thats not including the technologies these aliens have and how they use it.
the ultimate answer is that no one knows until contact happens, it can go one of 4 ways;
1. we win, they lose
2. they win, we lose.
3. they exterminate us from far orbit.
4. a stalemate but techincally if the aliens have a base on earth and we cant drive them out like they can not push out, techincally we lost because the aliens are planet side with a beach head. however it may only be temporary for all we know.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
the ultimate answer is that no one knows until contact happens, it can go one of 4 ways;
1. we win, they lose
2. they win, we lose.
3. they exterminate us from far orbit.
4. a stalemate but techincally if the aliens have a base on earth and we cant drive them out like they can not push out, techincally we lost because the aliens are planet side with a beach head. however it may only be temporary for all we know.
Or it was all a misunderstanding and the aliens thought the planet was uninhabited. Aliens are supposed to be alien so we might not even realize they exist and they might not even realize we exist. The Devil in the Dark episode had a Federation colony mining Horta eggs. Also, the last cold you had could have been an alien colony that was brutally massacred with cold medication.
If they have FTL technology and are invading Earth, they're already making strategic errors - the only thing on this planet you can't get more easily in space is us - so hoping for tactical errors as well isn't that far-fetched, one would think.
Yeah, if aliens who can traverse interstellar space invade Earth, it is likely because they are after a life-form exclusive to this planet. And if that life-form happens to be humans, it is doubtful that they would wipe us out as in movies like Independence Day. I see a situation more like (forgive me for mentioning this abomination) Battlefield Earth.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
In our solar system, Earth may be unique in terms of having water in liquid form on the surface, but liquid water itself isn't really a rarity. See here.
And thats just in our tiny solar system. Evidence strongly suggests there should be countless water planets all over the place in the universe.
The only reason why aliens would invade is the same reason why we would invade, food and other new experiences. Food that we take for granted like hamburgers, pizza, ice cream, or pop might be rare delicacies that they have never encountered before. Once a society reaches the point where every problem is solved, then all that is left is to find new experiences.
hmm..... well, if the XCom games are any indication, we'd get our asses handed to us till we can kill enough of them to salvage working weapons, learn to use their tech, then obliterate them.
Even the very idea of aliens invading becomes far-fetched the more one actually thinks about it. Anything with the technology and resources to traverse the vastness of space probably wouldn't really need anything from our planet. The only thing that we have that might be considered rare on a galactic stage, based on our current limited understanding of the universe, is life itself, and even then, the biology of the organisms on our planet would more than likely be incompatible or even downright toxic to the biology of organisms from another planet.
If there were aliens out there that specifically had malevolent intentions toward Earth, it would probably be because they were a predator-type civilization, seeking to prevent humanity from ever possibly becoming a threat on the galactic stage. And if that was the case, again, they wouldn't need to physically invade to wipe us out.
Heck, even when it comes to colonization or strip mining our planets for resources, aliens wouldn't necessarily need to physically invade the planet. They could just launch something like a Von Neumann probe, and let machines do all the dirty work. Even more unsettling is the idea that our planet could be invaded and consumed by such a thing that was launched by an alien civilization that didn't even know we existed; they simply launched a bunch that were programmed to go out and strip mine whole star systems for useful materials, the possible but seemingly slim existence of other life be damned.
So yeah, not only is the whole idea of aliens invading becoming more far fetched the more we understand about how the universe works, but if, hypothetically, aliens ever did wish us ill will or desire our planet for whatever reason, it wouldn't really by a fight. It would be a one-sided massacre.
Still, it makes for entertaining fiction. Obviously, I wouldn't be playing a Star Trek game if I didn't think that wasn't the case. :P
That being said, that Alien Outpost movie is a rather blatant allegory for the current and past conflicts in the Middle East.
"There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
Or it was all a misunderstanding and the aliens thought the planet was uninhabited. Aliens are supposed to be alien so we might not even realize they exist and they might not even realize we exist. The Devil in the Dark episode had a Federation colony mining Horta eggs. Also, the last cold you had could have been an alien colony that was brutally massacred with cold medication.
There is a ton of water available through other methods. Why grab water from such a problematic area as Earth when harvesting asteroids is far safer.
any and all the above, even the absurd ideas are plausible to alien thinking, even the crackpot ones. even ones we can not even comprehend.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The governments of this world won't even admit the horrible things they inflict on mankind, I'm sure they will come up with a story as to why theirs a space ship entering our atmosphere.
Therefore, we are not ready because we are still killing each other for sport, for land, for money and for religion.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
There is also the issue of whether water is actually needed for life. Life that uses a similar chemistry to our own would require water, but life that uses more exotic chemistry would not necessarily require water.
Of course, there is always the possibility that all sentient life in the universe looks just like us which would be an interesting day when First Contact happens since we would be expecting some bizarre creature and we end up with something that looks exactly like us. i am certain that a ton of people will be extremely disappointed by that.
I don't think there's much to worry about once a alien caught a broadcast of jersey shore or kardashians they'd come to the conclusion that theres no intelligent life on the planet, and retreat.
All they would have to do is shoot us from space. The end.
They even don't need to shoot, just push meteors from the orb cloud to us, couple 1000 will do...
Europa has more water than the entire Earth. Europa's water would form a sphere 1,090 miles (1,754 km) in diameter. Earths water-sphere would be 860 miles (1,384 km) across. Europa's ocean is 10 times deeper than the seas of Earth
what happens if these creatures are biologically reversable at will, one could be male one moment, the reversal happens and a odd smell is released, so strong it is that any ordinary human would run for it or pass out. the reversal prompts the action to become female and it can happen again back to male and so on.
what happens if that alien girl you are interested in decided in secret to swap to male organs, you wanted to get it on with "her" only to find out that "she" is actually a he and biologically the one you dont want after getting super horny.
on the contrary the opinion isnt discounted because we really dont know what alien life would be like.
or what happens if that alien female is a siren, lure the male in, let him do his business then eat him whole as the deed is done, just like a preying mantis. never know.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I got to thinking, if this happened for real, could we fight them off?
It's a nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.
So much to take into consideration. But if they came for invasion it means we got lucky. The only reason for invasion is we have something they want and are not advanced enough to just take it without starting said invasion. Its for us about finding that as quick as possible & than start negotiations. Its not an human (aliens) vs. ants (humans) like scenario.
If the aliens are so far ahead that the ants comparison works they will not invade. They will not care outside of curiosity like we might have when seeing some ant struggle with a dropped piece of apple while we wait at the bus station. We could just squash them but unless we are some kind of stupid kid we just don't bother much. The most "invasion-like" scenario we would have is, while we have a walk in the woods, accidentally having our smartphone falling out of the pocket on to an anthill & then picking it up again.
And if the aliens are indeed that far ahead for the ant comparison to work it does not matter if we are just on earth or in like 400 years have warp as common as a bus-ride today & have 100 worlds populated. We are talking at least on Q like powers. Probably even beyond Q. Why beyond? Because there is to much about Q we understand.
There is far to much focus on water, in either its liquid or solid form. I can think of three things more abundant on Earth than anywhere else and that is Chlorophyll, algae and bacteria, now it can be argued that the same could be said about water even ten years ago but for now we haven't seen evidence for even historic forms of this on other off world bodies.
We could only guess at what an alien may want with them but all three are essential in several processes that we rely on, and it has even been mooted that alge could be a future food source.
What that means for us apes is that we would be an afterthought for anyone wanting those resources, so we would be either ignored or slaughtered for 'them' to do their thing, I suppose if they were feeling nice they may talk to us on the way through!
what happens if these creatures are biologically reversable at will, one could be male one moment, the reversal happens and a odd smell is released, so strong it is that any ordinary human would run for it or pass out. the reversal prompts the action to become female and it can happen again back to male and so on.
what happens if that alien girl you are interested in decided in secret to swap to male organs, you wanted to get it on with "her" only to find out that "she" is actually a he and biologically the one you dont want after getting super horny.
on the contrary the opinion isnt discounted because we really dont know what alien life would be like.
or what happens if that alien female is a siren, lure the male in, let him do his business then eat him whole as the deed is done, just like a preying mantis. never know.
All of these are existing fetishes on the Internet. (The last one is called "vore", in case you wanted to verify, and there are those who actually fantasize about being on the menu.)
All of these are existing fetishes on the Internet. (The last one is called "vore", in case you wanted to verify, and there are those who actually fantasize about being on the menu.)
Like the man said, it's not "if", but "how".
There is even an anime about mirrorchaos' first two scenarios with Ranma. The major difference being one is done through alien biology while the other is done through a curse. There are a lot of guys and women that would be interested in an alien that can switch genders even if they have to wear a gas mask when the alien switches genders.
As Tony Stark put it, "If it is good enough for Captain Kirk, it is good enough for me."
From a technological standpoint, if any hostile alien species has the capability to travel here, then they should have the technological means to best us. On that basis, we're doomed. The only thing we'd ever have on our side is nature, re; world of the worlds - there's a chance that an alien species could develop an illness thanks to our ecosystem.
From a technological standpoint, if any hostile alien species has the capability to travel here, then they should have the technological means to best us. On that basis, we're doomed. The only thing we'd ever have on our side is nature, re; world of the worlds - there's a chance that an alien species could develop an illness thanks to our ecosystem.
italy invaded a part of africa by itself during one of the world wars without german help, the natives drove the italians off in their tanks with local primitive weapons, even argentina invaded the falklands once with ancient french frigates and a few subs, even put the brits in a spot of bother on the whole subject, even though the argentinians lost that fight, the point is that one doesnt need to think that just because they got superior space technology, it would mean they would have any concept of ground technology or if they did, at what stage their tech is. advanced doesnt mean a lot to someone that is only good to use it compared to less advanced tech with experts behind them.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
italy invaded a part of africa by itself during one of the world wars without german help, the natives drove the italians off in their tanks with local primitive weapons, even argentina invaded the falklands once with ancient french frigates and a few subs, even put the brits in a spot of bother on the whole subject, even though the argentinians lost that fight, the point is that one doesnt need to think that just because they got superior space technology, it would mean they would have any concept of ground technology or if they did, at what stage their tech is. advanced doesnt mean a lot to someone that is only good to use it compared to less advanced tech with experts behind them.
Here we are on Earth, worried about the smallest asteroid colliding with us.
Here we are on Earth, the farthest a man has ever traveled has been to the moon. Once. Decades ago.
From space you can destroy human civilization with absolute impunity. You can destroy every population center, military concentration, industrial centers, and send mankind scurrying underground to live like rodents. They may not necessarily wipe us out 100%. But they'd set mankind back thousands of years in progress.
But that's for an eradication route should they take it. But what about if they simply want to subjugate us? EASY. Do the same thing with a show of force. Make some examples and kill millions upon millions of people without us being able to do a damn thing about it. The threat of force from there on will be enough, and examples to be made, easily done should it be required. And if man still refuses to capitulate, then simply take the eradication route.
If there would be some alien race with the technology to come over here and kick our asses, there's nothing we can do about it.
But that's for an eradication route should they take it. But what about if they simply want to subjugate us? EASY. Do the same thing with a show of force. Make some examples and kill millions upon millions of people without us being able to do a damn thing about it. The threat of force from there on will be enough, and examples to be made, easily done should it be required. And if man still refuses to capitulate, then simply take the eradication route.
If there would be some alien race with the technology to come over here and kick our asses, there's nothing we can do about it.
Read an interesting novel this week called The Atopian Chronicles. The novel features nanotech-based virtual reality where a symbiotic AI is created for each user of the technology. The person can interact with their AI as a sort of imaginary friend, but the relevant part is that the AI can take control of the person's body while the person is enjoying a virtual world. So I could say that I want to play STO 10.0 and my body needs to get some exercise so do some running while I enjoy my game.
This idea could be adapted so the aliens give this technology for free or go through some front company and when the majority of people are enjoying their virtual experience, they invade by using every single person that uses the virtual reality technology. There is absolutely no need to send a subjugation army to Earth when the army is already here and just needs to be activated.
Here we are on Earth, worried about the smallest asteroid colliding with us.
Here we are on Earth, the farthest a man has ever traveled has been to the moon. Once. Decades ago.
From space you can destroy human civilization with absolute impunity. You can destroy every population center, military concentration, industrial centers, and send mankind scurrying underground to live like rodents. They may not necessarily wipe us out 100%. But they'd set mankind back thousands of years in progress.
But that's for an eradication route should they take it. But what about if they simply want to subjugate us? EASY. Do the same thing with a show of force. Make some examples and kill millions upon millions of people without us being able to do a damn thing about it. The threat of force from there on will be enough, and examples to be made, easily done should it be required. And if man still refuses to capitulate, then simply take the eradication route.
If there would be some alien race with the technology to come over here and kick our asses, there's nothing we can do about it.
Yeah, really. It amuses me that people think we'd stand a chance. Do the ants stand a chance when we place a hand grenade in their anthill? We'd be so seriously outclassed that it's not funny. People mention our "thermonuclear weapons" like it's some holy mantra, forgetting that these guys likely would be lobbing thermonuclear weapons at each other on a simple ship to ship skirmish like they were simple flak shells. Their most powerful weaponry would be something truly catastrophic, like antimatter or quantum energy or even a freaking singularity.
Comments
if aliens did come to earth, understanding them without a context is a problem. thats the problem, they are "alien" to us we wouldnt have a hope, now its possible they could be understood quickly or they are so far outside our own understanding.
in war you got two sides, in war you need understanding and intelligence, without understanding the aliens motivations and they understood ours easily enough, it would simply be a waste of time trying.
thats not including the technologies these aliens have and how they use it.
the ultimate answer is that no one knows until contact happens, it can go one of 4 ways;
1. we win, they lose
2. they win, we lose.
3. they exterminate us from far orbit.
4. a stalemate but techincally if the aliens have a base on earth and we cant drive them out like they can not push out, techincally we lost because the aliens are planet side with a beach head. however it may only be temporary for all we know.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Or it was all a misunderstanding and the aliens thought the planet was uninhabited. Aliens are supposed to be alien so we might not even realize they exist and they might not even realize we exist. The Devil in the Dark episode had a Federation colony mining Horta eggs. Also, the last cold you had could have been an alien colony that was brutally massacred with cold medication.
There is a ton of water available through other methods. Why grab water from such a problematic area as Earth when harvesting asteroids is far safer.
Yeah, if aliens who can traverse interstellar space invade Earth, it is likely because they are after a life-form exclusive to this planet. And if that life-form happens to be humans, it is doubtful that they would wipe us out as in movies like Independence Day. I see a situation more like (forgive me for mentioning this abomination) Battlefield Earth.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
In our solar system, Earth may be unique in terms of having water in liquid form on the surface, but liquid water itself isn't really a rarity. See here.
And thats just in our tiny solar system. Evidence strongly suggests there should be countless water planets all over the place in the universe.
If there were aliens out there that specifically had malevolent intentions toward Earth, it would probably be because they were a predator-type civilization, seeking to prevent humanity from ever possibly becoming a threat on the galactic stage. And if that was the case, again, they wouldn't need to physically invade to wipe us out.
Heck, even when it comes to colonization or strip mining our planets for resources, aliens wouldn't necessarily need to physically invade the planet. They could just launch something like a Von Neumann probe, and let machines do all the dirty work. Even more unsettling is the idea that our planet could be invaded and consumed by such a thing that was launched by an alien civilization that didn't even know we existed; they simply launched a bunch that were programmed to go out and strip mine whole star systems for useful materials, the possible but seemingly slim existence of other life be damned.
So yeah, not only is the whole idea of aliens invading becoming more far fetched the more we understand about how the universe works, but if, hypothetically, aliens ever did wish us ill will or desire our planet for whatever reason, it wouldn't really by a fight. It would be a one-sided massacre.
Still, it makes for entertaining fiction. Obviously, I wouldn't be playing a Star Trek game if I didn't think that wasn't the case. :P
That being said, that Alien Outpost movie is a rather blatant allegory for the current and past conflicts in the Middle East.
Well, considering that the white mice run this planet...
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
any and all the above, even the absurd ideas are plausible to alien thinking, even the crackpot ones. even ones we can not even comprehend.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The governments of this world won't even admit the horrible things they inflict on mankind, I'm sure they will come up with a story as to why theirs a space ship entering our atmosphere.
Therefore, we are not ready because we are still killing each other for sport, for land, for money and for religion.
Of course, there is always the possibility that all sentient life in the universe looks just like us which would be an interesting day when First Contact happens since we would be expecting some bizarre creature and we end up with something that looks exactly like us. i am certain that a ton of people will be extremely disappointed by that.
[/SIGPIC]
They even don't need to shoot, just push meteors from the orb cloud to us, couple 1000 will do...
Europa has more water than the entire Earth. Europa's water would form a sphere 1,090 miles (1,754 km) in diameter. Earths water-sphere would be 860 miles (1,384 km) across. Europa's ocean is 10 times deeper than the seas of Earth
That , plus if they are Democrat or Republican , cats or dogs, and finally mikyD or burger king?
... oh, a d if we can have sex with them ... , always a deciding factor when the human male is concernd ...
It is not a matter of if, but how.
what happens if these creatures are biologically reversable at will, one could be male one moment, the reversal happens and a odd smell is released, so strong it is that any ordinary human would run for it or pass out. the reversal prompts the action to become female and it can happen again back to male and so on.
what happens if that alien girl you are interested in decided in secret to swap to male organs, you wanted to get it on with "her" only to find out that "she" is actually a he and biologically the one you dont want after getting super horny.
on the contrary the opinion isnt discounted because we really dont know what alien life would be like.
or what happens if that alien female is a siren, lure the male in, let him do his business then eat him whole as the deed is done, just like a preying mantis. never know.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
So much to take into consideration. But if they came for invasion it means we got lucky. The only reason for invasion is we have something they want and are not advanced enough to just take it without starting said invasion. Its for us about finding that as quick as possible & than start negotiations. Its not an human (aliens) vs. ants (humans) like scenario.
If the aliens are so far ahead that the ants comparison works they will not invade. They will not care outside of curiosity like we might have when seeing some ant struggle with a dropped piece of apple while we wait at the bus station. We could just squash them but unless we are some kind of stupid kid we just don't bother much. The most "invasion-like" scenario we would have is, while we have a walk in the woods, accidentally having our smartphone falling out of the pocket on to an anthill & then picking it up again.
And if the aliens are indeed that far ahead for the ant comparison to work it does not matter if we are just on earth or in like 400 years have warp as common as a bus-ride today & have 100 worlds populated. We are talking at least on Q like powers. Probably even beyond Q. Why beyond? Because there is to much about Q we understand.
We could only guess at what an alien may want with them but all three are essential in several processes that we rely on, and it has even been mooted that alge could be a future food source.
What that means for us apes is that we would be an afterthought for anyone wanting those resources, so we would be either ignored or slaughtered for 'them' to do their thing, I suppose if they were feeling nice they may talk to us on the way through!
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Like the man said, it's not "if", but "how".
There is even an anime about mirrorchaos' first two scenarios with Ranma. The major difference being one is done through alien biology while the other is done through a curse. There are a lot of guys and women that would be interested in an alien that can switch genders even if they have to wear a gas mask when the alien switches genders.
As Tony Stark put it, "If it is good enough for Captain Kirk, it is good enough for me."
italy invaded a part of africa by itself during one of the world wars without german help, the natives drove the italians off in their tanks with local primitive weapons, even argentina invaded the falklands once with ancient french frigates and a few subs, even put the brits in a spot of bother on the whole subject, even though the argentinians lost that fight, the point is that one doesnt need to think that just because they got superior space technology, it would mean they would have any concept of ground technology or if they did, at what stage their tech is. advanced doesnt mean a lot to someone that is only good to use it compared to less advanced tech with experts behind them.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The jump in technology isn't that great.
What we can achieve now compared to any supposed hostile alien, space faring race that can project military power? I said before, they don't even need to touch down if they want to wipe us out.
Here we are on Earth, worried about the smallest asteroid colliding with us.
Here we are on Earth, the farthest a man has ever traveled has been to the moon. Once. Decades ago.
From space you can destroy human civilization with absolute impunity. You can destroy every population center, military concentration, industrial centers, and send mankind scurrying underground to live like rodents. They may not necessarily wipe us out 100%. But they'd set mankind back thousands of years in progress.
But that's for an eradication route should they take it. But what about if they simply want to subjugate us? EASY. Do the same thing with a show of force. Make some examples and kill millions upon millions of people without us being able to do a damn thing about it. The threat of force from there on will be enough, and examples to be made, easily done should it be required. And if man still refuses to capitulate, then simply take the eradication route.
If there would be some alien race with the technology to come over here and kick our asses, there's nothing we can do about it.
Read an interesting novel this week called The Atopian Chronicles. The novel features nanotech-based virtual reality where a symbiotic AI is created for each user of the technology. The person can interact with their AI as a sort of imaginary friend, but the relevant part is that the AI can take control of the person's body while the person is enjoying a virtual world. So I could say that I want to play STO 10.0 and my body needs to get some exercise so do some running while I enjoy my game.
This idea could be adapted so the aliens give this technology for free or go through some front company and when the majority of people are enjoying their virtual experience, they invade by using every single person that uses the virtual reality technology. There is absolutely no need to send a subjugation army to Earth when the army is already here and just needs to be activated.
Yeah, really. It amuses me that people think we'd stand a chance. Do the ants stand a chance when we place a hand grenade in their anthill? We'd be so seriously outclassed that it's not funny. People mention our "thermonuclear weapons" like it's some holy mantra, forgetting that these guys likely would be lobbing thermonuclear weapons at each other on a simple ship to ship skirmish like they were simple flak shells. Their most powerful weaponry would be something truly catastrophic, like antimatter or quantum energy or even a freaking singularity.
We'd be literally ****ed.