I didn't feel manipulated, though, because the truth of what was happening was plainly obvious. I felt like my character was an idiot.
And there were no repercussions.
True.
You see both forms in the Kobali arc now. I felt manipulated when learning the truth of why the Vaadwaur are attacking my "allies." It was a good plot twist. Didn't see it coming. But afterwards, when Captain Prime Directive rides in on his high horse and the simply game won't let me object, my character just stands there and goes along with it...that's just stupid.
When the game takes away the player's control of their character, it also severs their emotional connection. I didn't stand there in silence when Starfleet decided to once again uphold their high-and-mighty directives at the expense of innocent people. The game did that.
Heck, your very first mission as a Starfleet Captain, Stranded in Space, has you blowing up 7 Orion ships full of people, killing Orions on the ship - going in and coming out -
They're pirates attacking a civilian freighter and to steal their cargo, probably planing to sell its crew into slavery, and are actively trying to kill you, so you'll excuse me if I don't shed tears over phasering them.
and even leaving injured people behind on the Azura if you were not a Science Captain.
Thats was only becuase of the revamp the made it a career thing, before any cpatain could save the crew.
You see both forms in the Kobali arc now. I felt manipulated when learning the truth of why the Vaadwaur are attacking my "allies." It was a good plot twist. Didn't see it coming. But afterwards, when Captain Prime Directive rides in on his high horse and the simply game won't let me object, my character just stands there and goes along with it...that's just stupid.
Yeah, but then they resolved that issue at the end of the arc while later missions remind you that the guys you are feeling sympathy for are space TRIBBLE trying to enslave everyone in the delta quadrant.
You say that as if the game could be less about violence and more about Peaceful exploration.
A game about Peace and Diplomacy doesn't sell well, it might be good for the Trekkies who play but the average gamer wants guns, explosions, violence, and naked women hence the abomination that now bears the name "Star Trek" (aka JJ Trek) less meaningful more guns and TRIBBLE.
One of the best parts of Star Trek was always the space battles. And I think most Trekkies remember such episodes fondly.
Even if there is much more to Star Trek (which there is), they can't be neglected.
And I'd argue for an MMORPG, this also the most fun to play around.
Moral dilemmas are not really that much of an MMORPG material.
At least not until we have MMOs where players play the "Planet of Hats" aliens and all roleplay that they think it's awesome that their old people get killed off at the age of 50 or that that weird alien in orbit are their gods and that ignoring a warning sign warrants death.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I did not miss your point at all. My point is that STO starts out as a war-based game. We are killing thousands long before we ever get to the specific mission you mentioned. The few deaths in that mission are nothing compared to the thousand we kill long before that - or the tens-of-thousands we kill after it - so that mission really means nothing in the grands scheme of things.
Killing hundreds that are charging you or running for the lifeboats as you tear their ship apart are meaningless compared to the one restrained feddie captain you beat senseless multiple times until he dies from his injuries.
The problem with Divide et Impera wasn't that it was violent or monstrous - it was that it was stupid. It was plainly obvious that Zelle was an Undine, to the point that being dragged along on tje mission was painful.
STO has far better writing than most MMOs, and even at launch (when it wasn't nearly as good as it is now), it was still in the top 50%. But Divide et Impera is the worst MMO quest I've ever played, because it made my character into an idiot.
I think that boils down the problem. It was too obvious, and any Starfleet Captain worth his own TV show would have complained earlier.
But they removed the mission. So it's kinda moot now. They knew it didn't work. But they needed to have their mission line-up done for the release date, so they put out every TRIBBLE they had made. It's awful that they had to do it, but we don't need to infer that they were too blind to see the problems with the mission. They just had a deadline.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
They're pirates attacking a civilian freighter and to steal their cargo, probably planing to sell its crew into slavery, and are actively trying to kill you, so you'll excuse me if I don't shed tears over phasering them.
Everyone in the game is trying to kill you. That does not mean we are supposed to kill them. Picard would be a very different person if he blew up the ships of every species who shot at him just because he could.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
1) When I'm on covert missions I don't fly a ship aligned with my faction. That's what Suliban Cell ships and Tuffli Freighters are for pre 40, and lock box ships are for after 40.
2) On covert missions I don't take Boffs whose races are aligned with my faction.
3) I never use weapons aligned with my faction.
4) I use generic EVA's for armor. No specific faction there.
5) The closest I and my crew ever come to wearing Fed uniforms is Mirror Universe so at best they'll think we are raiders from the Terran Empire at worst pirates from another faction.
Take everything you say there and dump it into the airlock.
Divide Et Impera (old walkthrough) made no special mention of you going in with any special preparation. No special ships. No super secret equipment. No Super-Secret-Decoder-Rings. The mission treats it like you're regular STARFLEET. You literally arrived Guns-Blazing.
Which was the point of Adm Zelle treating everything like she did because she wanted to drag Starfleet into the mud. That was the whole POINT of the mission, and YOU and your goons were the accessory to that and did so unquestioningly even when every single strand of logic as the mission progressed was screaming NO.
Expand diplomacy into a proper minigame. With dil sinks, Zen buyable diplomats, upgradeable boffs, doffs, and problem solved.
You can solve the conflict in the mission with your very own very rare mk14 upgraded Jean-Luc.
Take my money meme.
Yep. Had am LtJG. charge me with assault for a practical joke I played on a shipmate. Didn't matter no assault actually occurred, technically I was guilty. Fortunately the my CO didn't agree with the LT about the seriousness of the charges, or like him so only gave me a $50 dollar fine, and said not to do it again. My CO also had a chat with the LtJG about wasting his time bringing people to mast with frivolous charges.
Then if you were former military, then you knew you had that option to take it to the next level. But your example showed the system working fine. Your LtJG was too Eager Beaver and initiated the charges. But it's not a done deal, you knew that, right? It has to go up to the Commanding Officer for final decision and it's not something taken lightly. But your CO saw that it was B.S. and said, "Hell no."
US military justice prefers to have military justice and discipline to be handled at the lowest levels. The Commanding Officer of the unit has the final say even though anything could be initiated at lower levels. The CO gets presented the facts, etc, then makes the final judgement. He then levels what's going to happen. If the accused feels that they're not going to get a fair shake despite the facts and evidence, they then can request to go a higher level. A Court Martial. A higher echelon, judicial power that isn't your unit. A military judge with a jury of your peers of the same rank as you and above. And it's laid out then and there.
Now, not saying Starfleet works exactly the same but they've showed plenty of times a Court Martial or legal proceedings going on.
For Divide Et Impera, once it became blatantly clear what you were doing was terribly wrong and would damage the standing of Starfleet and the Federation it represents, you were never given the option to say, "Hold it, this is B.S" and stop the operation. There is all kinds of evidence from the mission, not to mention the chatter between you and Zelle as you're presenting the information of what you're finding, what you're encountering, isn't jiving with what Zelle said you were supposed to find. Even your away team and your own comms back to Zelle expressed this doubt more and more.
Everything about the mission once time progressed when you beamed down to the station was massive evidence that it was *all wrong.* You never had the choice to"Keep going" or "What would Picard say? NO!"
All level of common sense, all notion of all personnel remembering who and what they represented, was lost in that old mission. It was embarrassingly bad! But it was good I say, because it was so bad that it was Showgirls good!
Yeah, but then they resolved that issue at the end of the arc while later missions remind you that the guys you are feeling sympathy for are space TRIBBLE trying to enslave everyone in the delta quadrant.
I never felt sympathy for the "space TRIBBLE" Vaadwaur government. I felt sympathy for the helpless victims held hostage by the Kobali. They have been in stasis for centuries and are not party to any current conflict.
It would be blatantly racist to suggest those people should be treated as evil just because they're Vaadwaur.
Everyone in the game is trying to kill you. That does not mean we are supposed to kill them. Picard would be a very different person if he blew up the ships of every species who shot at him just because he could.
Yeah he would have shown he had some gonads. Picard NEVER should have been given command he should have been in the diplomatic corps oh wait bad idea he would have given away the Federation to some other race. Janeway had more testes then Picard had.
Yeah he would have shown he had some gonads. Picard NEVER should have been given command he should have been in the diplomatic corps oh wait bad idea he would have given away the Federation to some other race. Janeway had more testes then Picard had.
Yeah. How dare they give that guy the Flagship of the Federation. He was just a bald Frenchman with a British accent.
Oh, and also the youngest Captain in Starfleet history - becoming a Captain in 6 years at the age of 28. Kirk did not make it until he was 32.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yeah he would have shown he had some gonads. Picard NEVER should have been given command he should have been in the diplomatic corps oh wait bad idea he would have given away the Federation to some other race. Janeway had more testes then Picard had.
You mean he didn't destroy Space stations or poison planets or steal ships or commit geonocide? wow what a coward! :rolleyes:
Specifically the old Divide et Impera mission where you become a mass murderer against your will because of bad design. Hey, is the writer of that mission still employed by Cryptic? He should totally check out this thread and give us a few comments on why he wrote the player to behave like a TRIBBLE stormtrooper.
damn you for directing me to that time-sink of a site. i am back... 3 hours later.
Yeah he would have shown he had some gonads. Picard NEVER should have been given command he should have been in the diplomatic corps oh wait bad idea he would have given away the Federation to some other race. Janeway had more testes then Picard had.
God yes..such a lousy officer with a service record spanning sixty years during which Starfleet gave him command of the Federation flagship. TWICE.
Not to mention the Federation making him Ambassador to Vulcan when the guy was retired and in his eighties...
There's always the possibility that Picard knew how to work the "Old Boys Network" to get promotions and plum duty assignments. It's always easier to get ahead if you make friends in high places and know whose butt to kiss.
Picard was a great diplomat and all diplomats excel in the arts of schmoozing and butt kissing.
The guy was the Captain of the Stargazer for 22 years. If he had pull to get "plum duty assignments" he probably would have asked for an Excelsior or Ambassador rather then a crappy, outdated Constellation.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
There's always the possibility that Picard knew how to work the "Old Boys Network" to get promotions and plum duty assignments. It's always easier to get ahead if you make friends in high places and know whose butt to kiss.
Picard was a great diplomat and all diplomats excel in the arts of schmoozing and butt kissing.
I just wonder how it is a Captain commanded the Federation flagship when we now see clearly at least 3/4 of Federation ship commanders are Admirals.
Your idea of a plum assignment is different from my idea of a plum assignment and Picard would probably think we're both nuts. If Picard stayed in one command for 22 years it was either because he loved that ship and pulled every string he had to stay there, or he was such a complete and utter **ck-up Starfleet refused to transfer him anywhere he could do serious damage.
No it was because Picard asked Boothby his opinion on Netchayev and in turn Boothby told Netchayev of this. Netchayev then 'had it out' for Picard and made sure his career stagnated on Stargazer. We all know Boothby was really the one running Starfleet with his infinite connections made over years and years of maintaining the Academy grounds. Get it right man! :rolleyes:
Comments
You see both forms in the Kobali arc now. I felt manipulated when learning the truth of why the Vaadwaur are attacking my "allies." It was a good plot twist. Didn't see it coming. But afterwards, when Captain Prime Directive rides in on his high horse and the simply game won't let me object, my character just stands there and goes along with it...that's just stupid.
When the game takes away the player's control of their character, it also severs their emotional connection. I didn't stand there in silence when Starfleet decided to once again uphold their high-and-mighty directives at the expense of innocent people. The game did that.
Actually I just though she was a typical trek crazy Admiral.
They're pirates attacking a civilian freighter and to steal their cargo, probably planing to sell its crew into slavery, and are actively trying to kill you, so you'll excuse me if I don't shed tears over phasering them.
Thats was only becuase of the revamp the made it a career thing, before any cpatain could save the crew.
Yeah, but then they resolved that issue at the end of the arc while later missions remind you that the guys you are feeling sympathy for are space TRIBBLE trying to enslave everyone in the delta quadrant.
One of the best parts of Star Trek was always the space battles. And I think most Trekkies remember such episodes fondly.
Even if there is much more to Star Trek (which there is), they can't be neglected.
And I'd argue for an MMORPG, this also the most fun to play around.
Moral dilemmas are not really that much of an MMORPG material.
At least not until we have MMOs where players play the "Planet of Hats" aliens and all roleplay that they think it's awesome that their old people get killed off at the age of 50 or that that weird alien in orbit are their gods and that ignoring a warning sign warrants death.
To seek out new life and murder it.
Killing hundreds that are charging you or running for the lifeboats as you tear their ship apart are meaningless compared to the one restrained feddie captain you beat senseless multiple times until he dies from his injuries.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I think that boils down the problem. It was too obvious, and any Starfleet Captain worth his own TV show would have complained earlier.
But they removed the mission. So it's kinda moot now. They knew it didn't work. But they needed to have their mission line-up done for the release date, so they put out every TRIBBLE they had made. It's awful that they had to do it, but we don't need to infer that they were too blind to see the problems with the mission. They just had a deadline.
Take everything you say there and dump it into the airlock.
Divide Et Impera (old walkthrough) made no special mention of you going in with any special preparation. No special ships. No super secret equipment. No Super-Secret-Decoder-Rings. The mission treats it like you're regular STARFLEET. You literally arrived Guns-Blazing.
Which was the point of Adm Zelle treating everything like she did because she wanted to drag Starfleet into the mud. That was the whole POINT of the mission, and YOU and your goons were the accessory to that and did so unquestioningly even when every single strand of logic as the mission progressed was screaming NO.
You can solve the conflict in the mission with your very own very rare mk14 upgraded Jean-Luc.
Take my money meme.
Then if you were former military, then you knew you had that option to take it to the next level. But your example showed the system working fine. Your LtJG was too Eager Beaver and initiated the charges. But it's not a done deal, you knew that, right? It has to go up to the Commanding Officer for final decision and it's not something taken lightly. But your CO saw that it was B.S. and said, "Hell no."
US military justice prefers to have military justice and discipline to be handled at the lowest levels. The Commanding Officer of the unit has the final say even though anything could be initiated at lower levels. The CO gets presented the facts, etc, then makes the final judgement. He then levels what's going to happen. If the accused feels that they're not going to get a fair shake despite the facts and evidence, they then can request to go a higher level. A Court Martial. A higher echelon, judicial power that isn't your unit. A military judge with a jury of your peers of the same rank as you and above. And it's laid out then and there.
Now, not saying Starfleet works exactly the same but they've showed plenty of times a Court Martial or legal proceedings going on.
For Divide Et Impera, once it became blatantly clear what you were doing was terribly wrong and would damage the standing of Starfleet and the Federation it represents, you were never given the option to say, "Hold it, this is B.S" and stop the operation. There is all kinds of evidence from the mission, not to mention the chatter between you and Zelle as you're presenting the information of what you're finding, what you're encountering, isn't jiving with what Zelle said you were supposed to find. Even your away team and your own comms back to Zelle expressed this doubt more and more.
Everything about the mission once time progressed when you beamed down to the station was massive evidence that it was *all wrong.* You never had the choice to"Keep going" or "What would Picard say? NO!"
All level of common sense, all notion of all personnel remembering who and what they represented, was lost in that old mission. It was embarrassingly bad! But it was good I say, because it was so bad that it was Showgirls good!
I never felt sympathy for the "space TRIBBLE" Vaadwaur government. I felt sympathy for the helpless victims held hostage by the Kobali. They have been in stasis for centuries and are not party to any current conflict.
It would be blatantly racist to suggest those people should be treated as evil just because they're Vaadwaur.
Yeah he would have shown he had some gonads. Picard NEVER should have been given command he should have been in the diplomatic corps oh wait bad idea he would have given away the Federation to some other race. Janeway had more testes then Picard had.
Oh, and also the youngest Captain in Starfleet history - becoming a Captain in 6 years at the age of 28. Kirk did not make it until he was 32.
You mean he didn't destroy Space stations or poison planets or steal ships or commit geonocide? wow what a coward! :rolleyes:
damn you for directing me to that time-sink of a site. i am back... 3 hours later.
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God yes..such a lousy officer with a service record spanning sixty years during which Starfleet gave him command of the Federation flagship. TWICE.
Not to mention the Federation making him Ambassador to Vulcan when the guy was retired and in his eighties...
I'm mean..what were they thinking??
The Sisko poisoned a planet. That's why he's a demigod.
When you're mentioned in a Cracked article, you know you've arrived.
I just wonder how it is a Captain commanded the Federation flagship when we now see clearly at least 3/4 of Federation ship commanders are Admirals.
No it was because Picard asked Boothby his opinion on Netchayev and in turn Boothby told Netchayev of this. Netchayev then 'had it out' for Picard and made sure his career stagnated on Stargazer. We all know Boothby was really the one running Starfleet with his infinite connections made over years and years of maintaining the Academy grounds. Get it right man! :rolleyes: