That would be a shame. I have grown quite fond of the looks of the patrol escort.
That got a c-store version, though. I have no idea wether or not that means something, I'm just speculating myself. But the patrol escort is the only launch model that got a c-store version, all other c-store ships are canon designs or new designs.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That got a c-store version, though. I have no idea wether or not that means something, I'm just speculating myself. But the patrol escort is the only launch model that got a c-store version, all other c-store ships are canon designs or new designs.
That's quite interesting, if you consider that the popularity of the "basic" Partol Escort in game model itself is rather "divided" so to say. At least it got a a T5-U version with a nice looking new model (tempest) and a while ago.
Tier 5 Partol Escort: Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr; Lt; Ens; Lt
Became a
T5-U Partol Escort Refit: Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr; Lt; Lt.Cmdr
Tier 6 Partol Escort: add 1 uni ensign station and 1 engineering console (+higher hull, etc)
The same could be done with other "older" ships too.
Like the Deep Space Science Vessel:
Tier 5 DSSV: Lt; Lt; Ens; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr
Tier 5-U DSSV-Refit: Lt; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr
Tier 6 DSSV: add 1 uni ensign station and 1 engineering console (+higher hull, etc)
Research Science Vessel:
Tier 5 RSV: Lt; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr; Lt; Ens
Tier 5-U RSV: Lt; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr
Tier 6 DSSV: add 1 uni ensign station and 1 Science console (+higher hull, etc)
Of course the Tempest (and Constellation) could have been released to squeeze some more bucks out of an old design before they make that tier obsolete anyway. (But i would never assume that. )
Design wise Cryptics devs could go another way and release all new T6 ships, loosely based on previous T5 designs like the Research Science Vessel, Star Cruisers or Recon SV. Their game model could reflect their precursor like the Tempest to the T5 Partol Escort.
As long as the ship parts are compatible with the older ones i don't see a reason why it shouldn't work. (of course, the new ships stats should make some sense and be useful)
EDIT:
I hope this makes some sense...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Interesting proposal, though T5U doesn't get a new BOFF station, they get a console only. T6 gets one more BOFF station and could change a low one to uni.
I'm not opposed to it (I personally don't want to take anything away from players) but I personally would like those ships to retire to unify the look of STOs Starfleet a little bit (still difficult with roughly 30 new classes of ships comissioned every week ). But as I said, my personal taste may differ, I for one want a Tellarite ship as well that probably nobody ever would buy...
I'd like to leave some "wiggle room" for still missing T6 canon designs. Afterwards they could make a T6 Star Cruiser or whatever, sure.
My "most wanted" at the moment are a T6 Nebula (or even T5-refit, I want the type 6 material and a refurbished skin mostly ), a T5/T6 Tellarite ship (with unique "Tellarite" phasers, like the Andorian ones and then add a Vulcan set as well for the D'Kyr)... hmm... and maybe a T6 B'Rel/BoP for Klingons.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would drop coin on a T6 Nebula, and love the 4 nacelle look on the heavy cruiser.
The Dakota, Cheyenne, and Stargazer class cruiser skins are much more modern, so readably as updatable tech and hulls as the Galaxy.
Right now my t5u Ambassador is my go to cruiser, but the heavy Cruiser with its good turn and smaller hull would make sense for a Lt Eng/pilot hybrid ship. She is the smalles cruiser Feds have, so should really at t6 be called the Patrol Cruiser. 2 piece bonus with Picard maneuver and a new console that provides a turn bonus maybe.
Nebula, well I'd really like to see them make use of mission pods as a mechanic. Make mission pods a universal ship spot. Can slot a weapon, hangar pet (fighters, not frigates), or an additional console of any type. Several Federation and Klingon Ships have mission pods, I would like them to become something more than cosmetic. Not sure about Rom ships with mission pods but anyways.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
Science ships are by FAR the most overlooked type in the game. Rom and Klingon both need a SOLID fleet t6 sci ship. The fact that my T5U Fleet Recon Sci is still the best DPS optioned sci ship in the game is just insane. Don't get me wrong, I love my ship, but it's like there's a gaping hole of ship availability that could easily be filled by Cryptic, but instead with get more and more pilot/command ships that are mostly cruisers and a few escorts.
The lack of total weapons withstanding, offering sci ships with 2 tac consoles is just silly. I get the idea of a science ship is--ideally--to be a support vessel, but STF's/PVE's can all be done easily without any science ships on the team. So what is realistically happening instead, is that a science ship actually sandbags a team because of a more limited damage potential (especially those with >= 3 tac consoles).
Now don't get me wrong here, I've probably mastered what my sci ship can do, and with an engineer captain at the helm (and equipment geared towards maximizing shields/hull), it's about as durable and maneuverable as anyone could ask for, and the DBB's with 4x fleet consoles are rather efficient. But this is just FED side. The pitiful Guardian cannot hold a candle to it, and the KDF has nothing whatsoever.
How much longer are we going to be treated to this endless cavalcade of worthless (or none at all) science ships?
I would drop coin on a T6 Nebula, and love the 4 nacelle look on the heavy cruiser.
The Dakota, Cheyenne, and Stargazer class cruiser skins are much more modern, so readably as updatable tech and hulls as the Galaxy.
Right now my t5u Ambassador is my go to cruiser, but the heavy Cruiser with its good turn and smaller hull would make sense for a Lt Eng/pilot hybrid ship. She is the smalles cruiser Feds have, so should really at t6 be called the Patrol Cruiser. 2 piece bonus with Picard maneuver and a new console that provides a turn bonus maybe.
Nebula, well I'd really like to see them make use of mission pods as a mechanic. Make mission pods a universal ship spot. Can slot a weapon, hangar pet (fighters, not frigates), or an additional console of any type. Several Federation and Klingon Ships have mission pods, I would like them to become something more than cosmetic. Not sure about Rom ships with mission pods but anyways.
I like the idea of a Nebula Tactical pod with weapons in it, even if it is just torps, I'd be more likely to switch back to a Nebula for my sci toon.
Science ships are by FAR the most overlooked type in the game. Rom and Klingon both need a SOLID fleet t6 sci ship. The fact that my T5U Fleet Recon Sci is still the best DPS optioned sci ship in the game is just insane. Don't get me wrong, I love my ship, but it's like there's a gaping hole of ship availability that could easily be filled by Cryptic, but instead with get more and more pilot/command ships that are mostly cruisers and a few escorts.
The lack of total weapons withstanding, offering sci ships with 2 tac consoles is just silly. I get the idea of a science ship is--ideally--to be a support vessel, but STF's/PVE's can all be done easily without any science ships on the team. So what is realistically happening instead, is that a science ship actually sandbags a team because of a more limited damage potential (especially those with >= 3 tac consoles).
Now don't get me wrong here, I've probably mastered what my sci ship can do, and with an engineer captain at the helm (and equipment geared towards maximizing shields/hull), it's about as durable and maneuverable as anyone could ask for, and the DBB's with 4x fleet consoles are rather efficient. But this is just FED side. The pitiful Guardian cannot hold a candle to it, and the KDF has nothing whatsoever.
How much longer are we going to be treated to this endless cavalcade of worthless (or none at all) science ships?
My Nebula deals 20k+ dps and hasn't a single tactical console slotted (I use those places for uni consoles). Honestly, I think if somebody needs tactical consoles on a science ship they can't complain, really. I would always prefer a fifth sci console over a third tac. I'd even take one tac and six sci Or no tac and 6 eng and 6 sci.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
My Nebula deals 20k+ dps and hasn't a single tactical console slotted (I use those places for uni consoles). Honestly, I think if somebody needs tactical consoles on a science ship they can't complain, really. I would always prefer a fifth sci console over a third tac. I'd even take one tac and six sci Or no tac and 6 eng and 6 sci.
Maybe I'll give that a try on my Nebula, gives me some interesting ideas.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
I'd be perfectly content flipping the Intel onto the Lt Cmdr Tac instead. I suppose it could also be put onto the Eng instead but I think you can get away with a Lt. Cmdr Intel on a ship with "Recon" in the name because of the thematic synergy.
At the end of the day all I really want is a Luna with a Lt Cmdr Tac and a Cmdr Sci. Everything else is gravy, I just suggested what sounded thematically balanced to me.
Also, though not underappreciated, I'd like a T6 Prometheus with basically the same layout, only:
I wonder if it isn't time for cryptic to kinda take a backseat to the players in terms of ship layout and role. Think of it as character creator for skyrim or ESO. You select a type, which has pros and con's, bonuses to very specific skills and traits, and you work on leveling and building around those strengths. I think that instead of cryptic designing ships and telling us their rolls, we should be able to take a ship and work with it to better suit our own playstyle. I mean, if you think about it, very few ships in star trek actually had a specific role. The Galaxy, for instance, was pretty universal, with its only real weakness being raw firepower. The Sovereign had a similar design, but with more emphasis on combat. Now some ships, like the Defiant, were the exact opposite; little more than flying guns with shields and heavy armor. Remember how Bashir was a little bummed out about the lacking sick bay? So, certain ships would have an emphasis on certain roles, while others would be making use of multiple roles to even it up. A Galaxy built for tactical and science wouldnt beat a Defiant in a slugfest, but would be able to gain the upper hand with well played and timed science abilities in concert with tactical abilities. I think every ship in the game should be able to be built up to compete with everything everything else, while the higher tier ships get a bonus in certain areas, or specific perks or items that make them a little more desirable, but not overly more powerful.
(...) I think every ship in the game should be able to be built up to compete with everything everything else, while the higher tier ships get a bonus in certain areas, or specific perks or items that make them a little more desirable, but not overly more powerful.
That's the main reason why this game is all bucked up in terms of ship balance. Cryptic already built the game so a Defiant or B'Rel are completely interchangeable with a Galaxy or D'Deridex. That leads to posts as yours, stating a Defiant would trump a Galaxy int erms of firepower (If you were still speaking in canon terms, not STO terms, that is). It's sad, really.
I'm all for customization of our ships, including their roles. But if we go this way we should go the whole hog and that means that not every ship should be equal to each other. Flying a Raider or Escort you would be hopelessly outgunned by the heavy ships and needed to compensate by player or NPC support - that would require different missions according to what kind of ship you decided to play and so on and that would require a completely different game, basically
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That's the main reason why this game is all bucked up in terms of ship balance. Cryptic already built the game so a Defiant or B'Rel are completely interchangeable with a Galaxy or D'Deridex. That leads to posts as yours, stating a Defiant would trump a Galaxy int erms of firepower (If you were still speaking in canon terms, not STO terms, that is). It's sad, really.
I'm all for customization of our ships, including their roles. But if we go this way we should go the whole hog and that means that not every ship should be equal to each other. Flying a Raider or Escort you would be hopelessly outgunned by the heavy ships and needed to compensate by player or NPC support - that would require different missions according to what kind of ship you decided to play and so on and that would require a completely different game, basically
Well, when I say a defiant would beat a galaxy in terms of firepower, I mean that if a player had the ability to build up the defiant as purely a beater, with little to nothing in the way of shields and defensive abilities, it would outgun a galaxy, but the galaxy in question, having been built up with q balance of tactical and science abilities, would have less hitting power, but would make up for it with healings shield drain, and damage mitigation/avoidance abilities (scramble sensors to break target lock). I mean, I'd like to see a more canon design to each of the ships, especially as far as their stats and abilities go, but at the same time I want to see every ship be viable. There are a lot of players who want to see ships like the constitution and the Miranda be more playable. Now, I'm of the opinion that older ships (constitution, Miranda, excelsior) should be inferior as far as firepower, shields, armor, etc. But at the same time, I don't think they should be completely useless, since most of them are pretty iconic. I've always thought having different queues for different ship tiers rather than gear and player level would make the game more fun for everyone. Keep the normal, advanced, and elite queues, but design them for ship tiers 1-6, and adjust the NPCs and missions accordingly. Same thing with the story missions.
Well, when I say a defiant would beat a galaxy in terms of firepower, I mean that if a player had the ability to build up the defiant as purely a beater, with little to nothing in the way of shields and defensive abilities, it would outgun a galaxy, but the galaxy in question, having been built up with q balance of tactical and science abilities, would have less hitting power, but would make up for it with healings shield drain, and damage mitigation/avoidance abilities (scramble sensors to break target lock). I mean, I'd like to see a more canon design to each of the ships, especially as far as their stats and abilities go, but at the same time I want to see every ship be viable.
That's the thing STO does completely wrong.
Star Trek ships are not supposed to be on par at all. If you want all ships to be canon, some would be completely outgunned by others.
If you want all ships to be viable (= comparable strong) it becomes utterly rediculus "unrealistic" in terms of Star Trek. The result is a mix of nonsense like we have in STO since start.
Assumed that they are at the same tech level, a nova Class is inferior to a Nebula in almost any way (maybe not maneuverability but that all), it is not supposed to be equal in the first place. The Novas Mission profile does not require a enormus vessel like the Nebula is.
But in STO both ships are aimed to be equal, which makes it totally pointless to fly the big and slower ship in the first place. Big ships are basicly sluggish versions of escorts, with more hull and a additional weapon slot as excuse. There's no game mechanic that makes it really worth or fun to fly a big ship compared to a nimble one. (like a 360° Torpedo weapon slot for ex. or having tractor beam effeciency depending on the targets mass or stuff like that.)
So in the end only fans of big ship are flying them, while most other people switch to the next ship. Before the supremacy of FAW, space combat in STO was more like a fighter sim. Everyone and their dog was flying a Escort or comparable nimble ship.
On the other hand, outfitting a ship like its canon counterpart (energy weapons/torpedoes) results in a big decrease in DPS. This is because things like Energy weapons and torpedoes don't work like in canon trek at all. In STO you basicly want as much energy weapons hit the enemy as possible, to get as much Crit damage as possible. With only one or two energy blasts like in canon trek, you would get much less critical hits as with STOs 8 beams.
Torpedoes in STO are completely rediculus. They are way too stupid and too slow. If fired at a enemies depleted shield facing and the enemy just turns just a tiny bit, the torpedo doesn't hit the unprotected area anymore and dies in the enemies shield without any bigger effect (and thus wasting DPS).
That's because torpedoes in STO are 1. way to slow and 2. should have a BIG chance to hit the intented unprotected facing by behaving a bit smarter.
Speaking from a Cruisers perspective, turnrate on the other hand would be much less important if weapons had a higher fireing range. If they would increase all weapons range to 20 km, flying a slower turning ship wouldn't be that bad anymore, since you could turn and maneuver without risking leaving weapons range. There would be much less need for high turning ships (not saying a high turnrate would be completely useless, but much less important that now) and the game would feel much more like Star Trek without so many nimble ships zipping around.
There are a lot of players who want to see ships like the constitution and the Miranda be more playable. Now, I'm of the opinion that older ships (constitution, Miranda, excelsior) should be inferior as far as firepower, shields, armor, etc. But at the same time, I don't think they should be completely useless, since most of them are pretty iconic. I've always thought having different queues for different ship tiers rather than gear and player level would make the game more fun for everyone. Keep the normal, advanced, and elite queues, but design them for ship tiers 1-6, and adjust the NPCs and missions accordingly. Same thing with the story missions.
That's because only combat strength counts in STO. Nothing else.
If there where other duties, like diplomatic, rescue, evacuation or scientific missions to do (equaly important than combat missions), even older ships would have something to do.
On the other side they could just give older ships fewer Weapon slots, less consoles and hull HP (but enough to make them worth playing), they could have some use.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Of all the cruisers in the game the heavy cruiser and the star cruiser were the two i really played first - every other ship was just a transitional one.
I like them both but they don't stick out much because there are cruisers that do what they do but better. I considered getting a fleet star cruiser for the longest time on one of my alts but i never got it because i quickly noticed that the science odyssey does exactly the same as the star cruiser - down to the sensor analysis which is what made the star cruiser so special - but the oddy does it flat out better.
I do hope they dig out the good old star cruiser, give it a t6 makeover and put it into its own niche - right between sci ships and cruisers. And all of that without any of those tacked on things like gimmicky features or hangars or the like.
I'd love to see a revamped T6 Star Cruiser. Especially if it's given a much more hybrid science ship lean, with LtC Sci and Sensor Analysis (A-la, Odyssey Sci Variant). The ship is easily one of my favorite Cryptic designs, and really represents the evolution of the Galaxy style; big, hulking ship built to handle anything that comes at it.
That, and I'd love to see a sleek 2410 skin for the in-line saucer and hull design.
As for T6 Heavy Cruiser, all I can say is yes. Though I would like to see a new skin that bumps up it's size a bit, similar to the Armitage scaling up the Akira, as it's pretty much dwarfed by escorts and raiders at this point.
Know what I'd like? If they made a T6 Nebula based on the Andromeda, and then a similar ship based on the Guardian that is a cruiser.
I really want a Nebula style cruiser...
Nebula based on the Andromeda (but also incorporate the revamped Galaxy parts) would be more than welcome. The Guardian should in my opinion be renamed "Support Cruiser [T6]" and incorporate the Ambassador skin (since it IS a new Ambassador, even using Probert's original Ambassador design elements) if you own it (i.e. unbox the free one in Temporal Ambassador and Yamaguchi if you own the fleet version)
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Nebula based on the Andromeda (but also incorporate the revamped Galaxy parts) would be more than welcome. The Guardian should in my opinion be renamed "Support Cruiser [T6]" and incorporate the Ambassador skin (since it IS a new Ambassador, even using Probert's original Ambassador design elements) if you own it (i.e. unbox the free one in Temporal Ambassador and Yamaguchi if you own the fleet version)
That would also be nice (I do love my Ambassador).
Would not mind a T6 pilot version the Advanced Escort, love the lines on the Prometheus class
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Nebula based on the Andromeda (but also incorporate the revamped Galaxy parts) would be more than welcome. The Guardian should in my opinion be renamed "Support Cruiser [T6]" and incorporate the Ambassador skin (since it IS a new Ambassador, even using Probert's original Ambassador design elements) if you own it (i.e. unbox the free one in Temporal Ambassador and Yamaguchi if you own the fleet version)
Yeah, that one would be more than welcome.
But... the Guardian is way bigger than the Ambassador, i don't know if these shipparts can be combined without resizing the Ambassador or Guardian. If anything, they should resize the Guardian simply to Ambassador scale, since the Ambassador is canon but the Guardian on the other hand is not.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Yeah, that one would be more than welcome.
But... the Guardian is way bigger than the Ambassador, i don't know if these shipparts can be combined without resizing the Ambassador or Guardian. If anything, they should resize the Guardian simply to Ambassador scale, since the Ambassador is canon but the Guardian on the other hand is not.
I would like that. On the other hand they could make the Ambassador/Yamaguchi a "one size" skin, so you could not mix and match but choose wether you want a larger Guardian or the smaller Ambassador (you basically just had the "preset" buttons and then choose material, windows etc.).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would like that. On the other hand they could make the Ambassador/Yamaguchi a "one size" skin, so you could not mix and match but choose wether you want a larger Guardian or the smaller Ambassador (you basically just had the "preset" buttons and then choose material, windows etc.).
I wouldn't want that tbh.
The fun of using the ship tailor is to mix and match various ship parts to create something unique and really good looking (or at least trying ). But a "one size" ship model would be completely un fun imo.
I have no idea if it is possible at all, but i think reducing the Guardian to Ambassador size would be the better.
A ship with Ambassador saucer, engineering hull and Guardian nacelles, pylons and neck (maybe) would look really good imo.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
That got a c-store version, though. I have no idea wether or not that means something, I'm just speculating myself. But the patrol escort is the only launch model that got a c-store version, all other c-store ships are canon designs or new designs.
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Tier 5 Partol Escort: Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr; Lt; Ens; Lt
Became a
T5-U Partol Escort Refit: Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr; Lt; Lt.Cmdr
Tier 6 Partol Escort: add 1 uni ensign station and 1 engineering console (+higher hull, etc)
The same could be done with other "older" ships too.
Like the Deep Space Science Vessel:
Tier 5 DSSV: Lt; Lt; Ens; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr
Tier 5-U DSSV-Refit: Lt; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr
Tier 6 DSSV: add 1 uni ensign station and 1 engineering console (+higher hull, etc)
Research Science Vessel:
Tier 5 RSV: Lt; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr; Lt; Ens
Tier 5-U RSV: Lt; Lt.Cmdr; Cmdr; Lt.Cmdr
Tier 6 DSSV: add 1 uni ensign station and 1 Science console (+higher hull, etc)
Of course the Tempest (and Constellation) could have been released to squeeze some more bucks out of an old design before they make that tier obsolete anyway. (But i would never assume that.
Design wise Cryptics devs could go another way and release all new T6 ships, loosely based on previous T5 designs like the Research Science Vessel, Star Cruisers or Recon SV. Their game model could reflect their precursor like the Tempest to the T5 Partol Escort.
As long as the ship parts are compatible with the older ones i don't see a reason why it shouldn't work. (of course, the new ships stats should make some sense and be useful)
EDIT:
I hope this makes some sense...
I'm not opposed to it (I personally don't want to take anything away from players) but I personally would like those ships to retire to unify the look of STOs Starfleet a little bit (still difficult with roughly 30 new classes of ships comissioned every week
I'd like to leave some "wiggle room" for still missing T6 canon designs. Afterwards they could make a T6 Star Cruiser or whatever, sure.
My "most wanted" at the moment are a T6 Nebula (or even T5-refit, I want the type 6 material and a refurbished skin mostly
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The Dakota, Cheyenne, and Stargazer class cruiser skins are much more modern, so readably as updatable tech and hulls as the Galaxy.
Right now my t5u Ambassador is my go to cruiser, but the heavy Cruiser with its good turn and smaller hull would make sense for a Lt Eng/pilot hybrid ship. She is the smalles cruiser Feds have, so should really at t6 be called the Patrol Cruiser. 2 piece bonus with Picard maneuver and a new console that provides a turn bonus maybe.
Nebula, well I'd really like to see them make use of mission pods as a mechanic. Make mission pods a universal ship spot. Can slot a weapon, hangar pet (fighters, not frigates), or an additional console of any type. Several Federation and Klingon Ships have mission pods, I would like them to become something more than cosmetic. Not sure about Rom ships with mission pods but anyways.
I am a Storyteller
This is where it comes down to personal taste, I really dislike the Star Cruiser, She just does nothing for me.
The lack of total weapons withstanding, offering sci ships with 2 tac consoles is just silly. I get the idea of a science ship is--ideally--to be a support vessel, but STF's/PVE's can all be done easily without any science ships on the team. So what is realistically happening instead, is that a science ship actually sandbags a team because of a more limited damage potential (especially those with >= 3 tac consoles).
Now don't get me wrong here, I've probably mastered what my sci ship can do, and with an engineer captain at the helm (and equipment geared towards maximizing shields/hull), it's about as durable and maneuverable as anyone could ask for, and the DBB's with 4x fleet consoles are rather efficient. But this is just FED side. The pitiful Guardian cannot hold a candle to it, and the KDF has nothing whatsoever.
How much longer are we going to be treated to this endless cavalcade of worthless (or none at all) science ships?
I like the idea of a Nebula Tactical pod with weapons in it, even if it is just torps, I'd be more likely to switch back to a Nebula for my sci toon.
My Nebula deals 20k+ dps and hasn't a single tactical console slotted (I use those places for uni consoles). Honestly, I think if somebody needs tactical consoles on a science ship they can't complain, really. I would always prefer a fifth sci console over a third tac. I'd even take one tac and six sci
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Maybe I'll give that a try on my Nebula, gives me some interesting ideas.
Such a ship would be a poor business decision by Cryptic...we'd have very little need for any other sci ship!
But seriously, I'd kill for a tac/eng flipped boff/console layout of the Scryer.
I'd be perfectly content flipping the Intel onto the Lt Cmdr Tac instead. I suppose it could also be put onto the Eng instead but I think you can get away with a Lt. Cmdr Intel on a ship with "Recon" in the name because of the thematic synergy.
At the end of the day all I really want is a Luna with a Lt Cmdr Tac and a Cmdr Sci. Everything else is gravy, I just suggested what sounded thematically balanced to me.
Also, though not underappreciated, I'd like a T6 Prometheus with basically the same layout, only:
Cmdr. Tac
Lt. Cmdr Sci/Pilot(?)
Lt. Cmdr. Tac
Lt. Eng
Ens Univ
I could take or leave Pilot seats but it's gotta have one to sell in today's market and no other seat feels more appropriate.
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That's the main reason why this game is all bucked up in terms of ship balance. Cryptic already built the game so a Defiant or B'Rel are completely interchangeable with a Galaxy or D'Deridex. That leads to posts as yours, stating a Defiant would trump a Galaxy int erms of firepower (If you were still speaking in canon terms, not STO terms, that is). It's sad, really.
I'm all for customization of our ships, including their roles. But if we go this way we should go the whole hog and that means that not every ship should be equal to each other. Flying a Raider or Escort you would be hopelessly outgunned by the heavy ships and needed to compensate by player or NPC support - that would require different missions according to what kind of ship you decided to play and so on and that would require a completely different game, basically
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Well, when I say a defiant would beat a galaxy in terms of firepower, I mean that if a player had the ability to build up the defiant as purely a beater, with little to nothing in the way of shields and defensive abilities, it would outgun a galaxy, but the galaxy in question, having been built up with q balance of tactical and science abilities, would have less hitting power, but would make up for it with healings shield drain, and damage mitigation/avoidance abilities (scramble sensors to break target lock). I mean, I'd like to see a more canon design to each of the ships, especially as far as their stats and abilities go, but at the same time I want to see every ship be viable. There are a lot of players who want to see ships like the constitution and the Miranda be more playable. Now, I'm of the opinion that older ships (constitution, Miranda, excelsior) should be inferior as far as firepower, shields, armor, etc. But at the same time, I don't think they should be completely useless, since most of them are pretty iconic. I've always thought having different queues for different ship tiers rather than gear and player level would make the game more fun for everyone. Keep the normal, advanced, and elite queues, but design them for ship tiers 1-6, and adjust the NPCs and missions accordingly. Same thing with the story missions.
Star Trek ships are not supposed to be on par at all. If you want all ships to be canon, some would be completely outgunned by others.
If you want all ships to be viable (= comparable strong) it becomes utterly rediculus "unrealistic" in terms of Star Trek. The result is a mix of nonsense like we have in STO since start.
Assumed that they are at the same tech level, a nova Class is inferior to a Nebula in almost any way (maybe not maneuverability but that all), it is not supposed to be equal in the first place. The Novas Mission profile does not require a enormus vessel like the Nebula is.
But in STO both ships are aimed to be equal, which makes it totally pointless to fly the big and slower ship in the first place. Big ships are basicly sluggish versions of escorts, with more hull and a additional weapon slot as excuse. There's no game mechanic that makes it really worth or fun to fly a big ship compared to a nimble one. (like a 360° Torpedo weapon slot for ex. or having tractor beam effeciency depending on the targets mass or stuff like that.)
So in the end only fans of big ship are flying them, while most other people switch to the next ship. Before the supremacy of FAW, space combat in STO was more like a fighter sim. Everyone and their dog was flying a Escort or comparable nimble ship.
On the other hand, outfitting a ship like its canon counterpart (energy weapons/torpedoes) results in a big decrease in DPS. This is because things like Energy weapons and torpedoes don't work like in canon trek at all. In STO you basicly want as much energy weapons hit the enemy as possible, to get as much Crit damage as possible. With only one or two energy blasts like in canon trek, you would get much less critical hits as with STOs 8 beams.
Torpedoes in STO are completely rediculus. They are way too stupid and too slow. If fired at a enemies depleted shield facing and the enemy just turns just a tiny bit, the torpedo doesn't hit the unprotected area anymore and dies in the enemies shield without any bigger effect (and thus wasting DPS).
That's because torpedoes in STO are 1. way to slow and 2. should have a BIG chance to hit the intented unprotected facing by behaving a bit smarter.
Speaking from a Cruisers perspective, turnrate on the other hand would be much less important if weapons had a higher fireing range. If they would increase all weapons range to 20 km, flying a slower turning ship wouldn't be that bad anymore, since you could turn and maneuver without risking leaving weapons range. There would be much less need for high turning ships (not saying a high turnrate would be completely useless, but much less important that now) and the game would feel much more like Star Trek without so many nimble ships zipping around.
That's because only combat strength counts in STO. Nothing else.
If there where other duties, like diplomatic, rescue, evacuation or scientific missions to do (equaly important than combat missions), even older ships would have something to do.
On the other side they could just give older ships fewer Weapon slots, less consoles and hull HP (but enough to make them worth playing), they could have some use.
EXCELSIOR!
So, is STO still Cruisers Online or is it going back to Escorts Online with the Pilot ships?
I like them both but they don't stick out much because there are cruisers that do what they do but better. I considered getting a fleet star cruiser for the longest time on one of my alts but i never got it because i quickly noticed that the science odyssey does exactly the same as the star cruiser - down to the sensor analysis which is what made the star cruiser so special - but the oddy does it flat out better.
I do hope they dig out the good old star cruiser, give it a t6 makeover and put it into its own niche - right between sci ships and cruisers. And all of that without any of those tacked on things like gimmicky features or hangars or the like.
That, and I'd love to see a sleek 2410 skin for the in-line saucer and hull design.
As for T6 Heavy Cruiser, all I can say is yes. Though I would like to see a new skin that bumps up it's size a bit, similar to the Armitage scaling up the Akira, as it's pretty much dwarfed by escorts and raiders at this point.
I really want a Nebula style cruiser...
Nebula based on the Andromeda (but also incorporate the revamped Galaxy parts) would be more than welcome. The Guardian should in my opinion be renamed "Support Cruiser [T6]" and incorporate the Ambassador skin (since it IS a new Ambassador, even using Probert's original Ambassador design elements) if you own it (i.e. unbox the free one in Temporal Ambassador and Yamaguchi if you own the fleet version)
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That would also be nice (I do love my Ambassador).
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
But... the Guardian is way bigger than the Ambassador, i don't know if these shipparts can be combined without resizing the Ambassador or Guardian. If anything, they should resize the Guardian simply to Ambassador scale, since the Ambassador is canon but the Guardian on the other hand is not.
I would like that. On the other hand they could make the Ambassador/Yamaguchi a "one size" skin, so you could not mix and match but choose wether you want a larger Guardian or the smaller Ambassador (you basically just had the "preset" buttons and then choose material, windows etc.).
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The fun of using the ship tailor is to mix and match various ship parts to create something unique and really good looking (or at least trying
I have no idea if it is possible at all, but i think reducing the Guardian to Ambassador size would be the better.
A ship with Ambassador saucer, engineering hull and Guardian nacelles, pylons and neck (maybe) would look really good imo.