Improved Pedal to the Metal....that Beam boat circling a target (not recommended against shielded targets cause you'll be hitting multiple shield facings and missing out on the hull damage resistance debuffs boosting damage)...up to +20% All Damage.
Beam Barrage...up to 6% Bonus Beam Damage.
The Cannon guy isn't going to be doing either of those.
No but as you say against shielded targets (which includes most NPC's) that damage is being wasted on the effective 2x to 4x multiplication of SP (depending on how well you can remain at one relative spot while moving at full throttle).
That is where cannons come in handy.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Dual Heavy Cannons are very viable and those that poo poo them are usually using bloated cruisers with a bad turn rate and depend on the firing arcs to do any damage and stay as far as possible from the enemy. Those are the ones going derp derp cannons suck. I wil agree to a point if you run a 100% cannon yes the cannons have short comings arc wise which will hurt you overall if you're not in a raptor or escort (no matter the flavor) but if it's crafted wide angle that argument goes out the window.
I will say this they have the damage drop off TRIBBLE backwards Cannons should hold thier punch over longer ranges then beams. Several reasons for this but hey it's a game so...at the end of the day if you like what you are running and are having fun thats the important thing no matter what some self crowned know it all says.
Cannons are viable. I'm pretty sure cryptics math crunchers are aware of beams being king at the moment and have gotten loads of peeps to spend remarkable amounts on upgrading it. Their metrics would show it. But in due course when need arises cannons will have its day in the sun. my best advice is to make sure you buy the TRIBBLE out of any cannons you can for now.
No but as you say against shielded targets (which includes most NPC's) that damage is being wasted on the effective 2x to 4x multiplication of SP (depending on how well you can remain at one relative spot while moving at full throttle).
That is where cannons come in handy.
That depends on the opponent. The Voth have some particularly nasty tricks for making park and shoot cannon runs fruitless. Also some enemies use tac team, and in that case you might have to burn through all four facings anyways. Then there's Elachi.... Elachi like to use a warp jump power to get behind you, good luck keeping cannon lock. :P Also when one of their big ships uses that cone attack they have, it blows out their front shield. I'm not sure I'd want to try to use a cannon run on that. I'm sure there's more examples.
Still can't believe that they changed Beam Barrage to allow FAW to stack it...meh.
VD... I still can't believe you're this surprised by it :P
You've been a number crunching guy and have been in this thing long enough to know the course of Power Creep and see the direction of the game. You should have known better
Edit: I don't know that if things were down to a single powerful target that Cannons would clearly reign supreme. Because BFAW? All those shots that would stray off somewhere if there were multiple targets, would just now pummel the living **** of a single target with its full strength. If the build had a good crit rate, then that FAWBoat will just Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit.
I'm not saying a DHC Boat can't do the same. But when it comes down to single targets, BFAW doesn't lose a beat.
VD... I still can't believe you're this surprised by it :P
You've been a number crunching guy and have been in this thing long enough to know the course of Power Creep and see the direction of the game. You should have known better
Heh, Jeff's over working on RIFT now.
"Systems Designer on Class and Combat design for Rift. Responsible for balancing, tuning, and overhauling character specializations for the Mage and Cleric classes."
Can't have any of that balancing, tuning, or overhauling going on here. Full FAW ahead!
Edit: I don't know that if things were down to a single powerful target that Cannons would clearly reign supreme. Because BFAW? All those shots that would stray off somewhere if there were multiple targets, would just now pummel the living **** of a single target with its full strength. If the build had a good crit rate, then that FAWBoat will just Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit.
I'm not saying a DHC Boat can't do the same. But when it comes down to single targets, BFAW doesn't lose a beat.
"Keep Calm And FAW On" brothas
Mob health moves it out of the spike/burst area of Cannons into the DPS area of DBBs/ODs...cause once you're into the 2-3...4...or more million health and all. Meh, yeah - buffing mob health - another thing Cryptic did in favor of Beams! The FAWkers!
edit: But yeah, as jarvisandalfred mentions below...only five of the shots are fired against a single target, the other potential five shots simply do not fire.
Edit: I don't know that if things were down to a single powerful target that Cannons would clearly reign supreme. Because BFAW? All those shots that would stray off somewhere if there were multiple targets, would just now pummel the living **** of a single target with its full strength. If the build had a good crit rate, then that FAWBoat will just Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit.
That's not how FAW works. Under normal circumstances, beam weapons fire 4 shots in 4 seconds, all at their primary target, then go silent for one second.
During FAW, beam weapons fire 5 shots in 4 seconds at their primary target, and 5 shots at a randomly picked secondary target in range (unless there is no secondary target), and then go silent for one second, all with increased damage based on FAW rank. If there's no secondary target, then all FAW gets you is slightly increased ROF and damage.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
...those are just some quick Available Skills info numbers.
For DPS, I'm using the 0.5s activation delay that's not shown on the tooltips/etc.
Beams have a 4/5 RoF...but there's a 0.5s activation delay, so it's actually 4/5.5 (or more depending on any latency). Likewise, the 2/3 becomes 2/3.5 or more. CRF drops it from 2/3.5 to 2/3.1 (0.5 to 0.3 per shot on a DHC).
edit: How about some FAW/CSV action too? Again, just rough info numbers stuff.
FAW3 vs. CSV2 (maintaining the LCdr angle) vs 2 targets...
edit: If anybody wanted to double check those - or - had other numbers already, that would be great. Those are very rough numbers and I wouldn't wager 2 EC on them being 100% correct.
edit: How about one last set while I've got the toon there...CSV vs. CRF and single target.
...those are just some quick Available Skills info numbers.
For DPS, I'm using the 0.5s activation delay that's not shown on the tooltips/etc.
Beams have a 4/5 RoF...but there's a 0.5s activation delay, so it's actually 4/5.5 (or more depending on any latency). Likewise, the 2/3 becomes 2/3.5 or more. CRF drops it from 2/3.5 to 2/3.1 (0.5 to 0.3 per shot on a DHC).
edit: How about some FAW/CSV action too? Again, just rough info numbers stuff.
FAW3 vs. CSV2 (maintaining the LCdr angle) vs 2 targets...
edit: If anybody wanted to double check those - or - had other numbers already, that would be great. Those are very rough numbers and I wouldn't wager 2 EC on them being 100% correct.
edit: How about one last set while I've got the toon there...CSV vs. CRF and single target.
CRF3: ~146.7%
CSV3: ~125.1%
Great.
Now we just need them to do that damage past arm's length.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Empirically speaking, DBB's do the most damage if you have the skill to use them. You're more than welcome to prove me wrong, but I'd be surprised (to be wrong, not if it was you that did it).
I'd be surprised if I did it, I haven't been in a forward firing ship for so long that I doubt I'd be able to handle DBBs, nevermind DHCs. :P
Did the FPER on the top of the charts use Phaser DBBs? For some reason I thought it was DHCs...
There are two problems with cannons but it could be fixed by addressing one.
1. The first as already stated is that the damage at range is almost nothing. The problem this creates is that your full weapon power shots all happen at range and when you get in close your weapon power is often down so you get double wammied.
2. With the arc for DHC only being 45 degrees you need to be aimed directly at your target but with a fast ship (most escorts) you need to fly out past your targets and circle back around for kills (doing no damage) a lot of the time. If you don't go out a fair distance you get 1/2 second on your target and need to do several runs. The only exceptions are those that park and shoot in Scims which can pump out the 50k dps, without pedal to the metal.
The solution would be to have cannons do 80% damage from 5-10k and 100% closer. It would even out some of the beam advantage.
In pve a cruiser without FAW will out DPS and escort running cannons with cannon skills.
Exactly: Cryptic guys have ruined this game when they nerfed the cannons.
Noobs gone crying out their cruisers did no damage -> Cryptic overpowers beam weapons and cruisers, so now we got cruisers that deals more damage than escorts.
The game was:
Escorts -> Damage
Cruiser -> Endurance
Science Vessels -> Support
Now we got:
Escorts -> TRIBBLE
Cruisers -> Top Damage and Endurance
Science Vessels -> More Damage, more endurance than Escorts ...
Congrats Devs, you made a wonderful job -_-
Oh, If you still don't get the point: They fuc**d up the very basics of this game ... if we had a role for every class, now we got a class that fill all the roles.
The problem is that the whole dev team is composed by people who never played this game, they don't know the problems they're causing and they don't mind...
Not a surprise the lack of players of these days ...
I'd be surprised if I did it, I haven't been in a forward firing ship for so long that I doubt I'd be able to handle DBBs, nevermind DHCs. :P
Did the FPER on the top of the charts use Phaser DBBs? For some reason I thought it was DHCs...
The last time I did a 5 DBB build was back when the 1st Xindi Escort was new. 5 DBBs, APB3 or APO3, BFAW3 was hilarious. It was like a field of fireworks was happening in front of me, complete with Disco Strobe Lights!
Exactly: Cryptic guys have ruined this game when they nerfed the cannons.
Noobs gone crying out their cruisers did no damage -> Cryptic overpowers beam weapons and cruisers, so now we got cruisers that deals more damage than escorts.
The game was:
Escorts -> Damage
Cruiser -> Endurance
Science Vessels -> Support
Now we got:
Escorts -> TRIBBLE
Cruisers -> Top Damage and Endurance
Science Vessels -> More Damage, more endurance than Escorts ...
Congrats Devs, you made a wonderful job -_-
Oh, If you still don't get the point: They fuc**d up the very basics of this game ... if we had a role for every class, now we got a class that fill all the roles.
The problem is that the whole dev team is composed by people who never played this game, they don't know the problems they're causing and they don't mind...
Not a surprise the lack of players of these days ...
Funny enough its actually pretty canon that cruisers can deal more damage than escorts. :rolleyes:
Exactly: Cryptic guys have ruined this game when they nerfed the cannons.
Noobs gone crying out their cruisers did no damage -> Cryptic overpowers beam weapons and cruisers, so now we got cruisers that deals more damage than escorts.
The game was:
Escorts -> Damage
Cruiser -> Endurance
Science Vessels -> Support
Now we got:
Escorts -> TRIBBLE
Cruisers -> Top Damage and Endurance
Science Vessels -> More Damage, more endurance than Escorts ...
Congrats Devs, you made a wonderful job -_-
Oh, If you still don't get the point: They fuc**d up the very basics of this game ... if we had a role for every class, now we got a class that fill all the roles.
The problem is that the whole dev team is composed by people who never played this game, they don't know the problems they're causing and they don't mind...
Not a surprise the lack of players of these days ...
*Looks at top dps ships*
Nope, that hasn't changed lately.
So, to FTFY that for you:
Escorts -> Top DPS
Cruisers -> Top Survivability
Science Vessels -> DPS of a Cruiser, Survivability of an Escort, and Sci Cheeze for days.
Unless of course you can prove us wrong and crack 120k in a cruiser.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Exactly: Cryptic guys have ruined this game when they nerfed the cannons.
Noobs gone crying out their cruisers did no damage -> Cryptic overpowers beam weapons and cruisers, so now we got cruisers that deals more damage than escorts.
The game was:
Escorts -> Damage
Cruiser -> Endurance
Science Vessels -> Support
Now we got:
Escorts -> TRIBBLE
Cruisers -> Top Damage and Endurance
Science Vessels -> More Damage, more endurance than Escorts ...
Congrats Devs, you made a wonderful job -_-
Oh, If you still don't get the point: They fuc**d up the very basics of this game ... if we had a role for every class, now we got a class that fill all the roles.
The problem is that the whole dev team is composed by people who never played this game, they don't know the problems they're causing and they don't mind...
Not a surprise the lack of players of these days ...
So they overpowered beams. And that made escorts, which have higher tac-abilities but one less weaponslot less powerful, since those can only slot Cannons... oh wait.
I congratulate you for lousy arguments and little knowledge.
Are you sure you actually played this game ? Cause, if you did, you would be aware of the fact that escorts are made to use cannons...
Turn Rate is useless if you have to use beams and guess what: Escorts gave shields and hull (and a weapon slot) in order to have a better turn rate, which made them able to use cannons, which are supposed to be the strongest energy weapons ...
but now cannons are not the strongest energy weapons, so escorts gave shields and hull for nothing ...
Are you sure you actually played this game ? Cause, if you did, you would be aware of the fact that escorts are made to use cannons...
Turn Rate is useless if you have to use beams and guess what: Escorts gave shields and hull (and a weapon slot) in order to have a better turn rate, which made them able to use cannons, which are supposed to be the strongest energy weapons ...
but now cannons are not the strongest energy weapons, so escorts gave shields and hull for nothing ...
Think about it
Have you heard of something called a Dual Beam Bank? :P
Are you sure you actually played this game ? Cause, if you did, you would be aware of the fact that escorts are made to use cannons...
Turn Rate is useless if you have to use beams and guess what: Escorts gave shields and hull (and a weapon slot) in order to have a better turn rate, which made them able to use cannons, which are supposed to be the strongest energy weapons ...
but now cannons are not the strongest energy weapons, so escorts gave shields and hull for nothing ...
Think about it
DBBs fore & ODs aft
Er...it's what folks are running on their Escorts/Heavy Escorts/Extra Heavy Escorts...
which are supposed to be the strongest energy weapons ...
but now cannons are not the strongest energy weapons, so escorts gave shields and hull for nothing ...
Actually they still are the most efficient if you compare a DHC to a beam array on the same setup you'll notice the DHC does about twice the damage of the beam array for each hit, now when you consider 3 turrets with 4 DHCs is draining 78 power and compare that to 8 beams draining 80 power and then take into account that the DHC gets 2 firing cycles for the beam array's 1, now remember the DHC only fires twice per cycle where the array fires 4 per cycle.
When we compare single target capabilities of beams and cannons, DHCs higher DPH, slightly lower power drain (build-wide) gives them an advantage, on the other hand the wider arc of beams makes them better for killing multiple targets and of course, setting dps records.
The of course there are DBBs which give you the best of both worlds and are now viable for builds thanks to omni beams.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I've heard this repeated time and again: Cannons can't hold a candle to beam weapons in endgame damage dealing. Is this true? If so, why isn't this being fixed? I thought cannons were supposed to be meant for high damage dealing.. if this isn't the case, why are they even in the game? It just worries me that the balance leans so completely towards beam weapons that you basically get raged at for bringing anything else.
Let me tell you how 2 different ships fared in argala for me, and you see if cannons are not viable.
Time and time again, I ran argala with a Tac KDF player in a Mat'Ha raptor using 5 CRTDx3 DHC's up front and a cutting beam with CRTDx3 turrets aft. Used MK XII blue tac consoles. Argala runs would take about 4 minutes to complete, with X DPS according to combatlogreader.
Time and time again, I would run argala with a scimitar beam boat using romulan plasma CRTDx2 beam arrays all around with 1 experimental beam array and one cutting beam. Used MK XII blue tac consoles. Argala runs would take about 5 and a half minutes to run, with X DPS plus x/2 DPS.
So blowing stuff up faster means not viable? If you look at only the DPS, it looks like beam arrays totally outclass cannons, but logic tells you that getting it done faster means they are in fact not only viable, but can be better, in spite of the metrics.
Use what works for you best. If you are still unsure, get some DHCs, turrets, beam arrays, DBBs, etc. weapons with the same MK level, quality and modifiers and test it out on the cheap before sinking resources into one or the other. If you find that you make DBBs work best, then go with it.
In my testing, cannons are totally viable, even if they don't have the DPS numbers that beam arrays or dual beam banks do because they can blow things up just as fast, if not faster in the right circumstances.
Ultimately, if you bring the right tool to the right job, it will be effective.
I've heard this repeated time and again: Cannons can't hold a candle to beam weapons in endgame damage dealing. Is this true? If so, why isn't this being fixed? I thought cannons were supposed to be meant for high damage dealing.. if this isn't the case, why are they even in the game? It just worries me that the balance leans so completely towards beam weapons that you basically get raged at for bringing anything else.
Think 7 toons of mine go with beam setups and only 2 with DHCs. One for sentimental reason cuz I learned their benefit back on my NWS runs (rest in piece you wonderful map). The second one for plain and simple fun, and that toon offers the most fun I can get out of a space map. I pug a lot or go in with inexperienced teams. I think my cannons shredder 4 kasa cubes solo much faster than my beam builds would. Also CCA still rocks with grav well 1 on board from point blank range and offers 1st place without bother healing anybody or having a valdore console on board quiet often on that toon.
Think in a time where you can get cars with automatic transmission to make live easier and more efficient some still bet on manual.
The first one tends to make me fall asleep, the second keeps me entertained. :cool:
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Think 7 toons of mine go with beam setups and only 2 with DHCs. One for sentimental reason cuz I learned their benefit back on my NWS runs (rest in piece you wonderful map). The second one for plain and simple fun, and that toon offers the most fun I can get out of a space map. I pug a lot or go in with inexperienced teams. I think my cannons shredder 4 kasa cubes solo much faster than my beam builds would. Also CCA still rocks with grav well 1 on board from point blank range and offers 1st place without bother healing anybody or having a valdore console on board quiet often on that toon.
Think in a time where you can get cars with automatic transmission to make live easier and more efficient some still bet on manual.
The first one tends to make me fall asleep, the second keeps me entertained. :cool:
autos are NOT more efficient. Humans can shift more intelligently -- most (not dragsters?) race cars are manual, and most "real" sport's cars as well. For a reason. Manuals cost less to make and maintain, perform better (with a skilled driver), use fuel better (slightly, again intelligent shifting, 10% or less savings typically), and are far more efficient or at worst equal to an automatic. The only advantages of an automatic are simpler to drive & allows cruise control.
Time and time again, I ran argala with a Tac KDF player in a Mat'Ha raptor using 5 CRTDx3 DHC's up front and a cutting beam with CRTDx3 turrets aft. Used MK XII blue tac consoles. Argala runs would take about 4 minutes to complete, with X DPS according to combatlogreader.
Time and time again, I would run argala with a scimitar beam boat using romulan plasma CRTDx2 beam arrays all around with 1 experimental beam array and one cutting beam. Used MK XII blue tac consoles. Argala runs would take about 5 and a half minutes to run, with X DPS plus x/2 DPS.
4 minutes = 240s, 240s at X DPS = 240X total damage dealt.
5.5 minutes = 330s, 330s at 1.5X DPS = 495X total damage dealt.
There's something off about that if you need to deal a little over double the amount of damage to complete the encounter in your Scimitar, because PvE enemies aren't anywhere near clever enough to use that many recovery abilities.
Comments
No but as you say against shielded targets (which includes most NPC's) that damage is being wasted on the effective 2x to 4x multiplication of SP (depending on how well you can remain at one relative spot while moving at full throttle).
That is where cannons come in handy.
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I will say this they have the damage drop off TRIBBLE backwards Cannons should hold thier punch over longer ranges then beams. Several reasons for this but hey it's a game so...at the end of the day if you like what you are running and are having fun thats the important thing no matter what some self crowned know it all says.
My character Tsin'xing
VD... I still can't believe you're this surprised by it :P
You've been a number crunching guy and have been in this thing long enough to know the course of Power Creep and see the direction of the game. You should have known better
Edit: I don't know that if things were down to a single powerful target that Cannons would clearly reign supreme. Because BFAW? All those shots that would stray off somewhere if there were multiple targets, would just now pummel the living **** of a single target with its full strength. If the build had a good crit rate, then that FAWBoat will just Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit and Crit.
I'm not saying a DHC Boat can't do the same. But when it comes down to single targets, BFAW doesn't lose a beat.
"Keep Calm And FAW On" brothas
Heh, Jeff's over working on RIFT now.
"Systems Designer on Class and Combat design for Rift. Responsible for balancing, tuning, and overhauling character specializations for the Mage and Cleric classes."
Can't have any of that balancing, tuning, or overhauling going on here. Full FAW ahead!
Mob health moves it out of the spike/burst area of Cannons into the DPS area of DBBs/ODs...cause once you're into the 2-3...4...or more million health and all. Meh, yeah - buffing mob health - another thing Cryptic did in favor of Beams! The FAWkers!
edit: But yeah, as jarvisandalfred mentions below...only five of the shots are fired against a single target, the other potential five shots simply do not fire.
That's not how FAW works. Under normal circumstances, beam weapons fire 4 shots in 4 seconds, all at their primary target, then go silent for one second.
During FAW, beam weapons fire 5 shots in 4 seconds at their primary target, and 5 shots at a randomly picked secondary target in range (unless there is no secondary target), and then go silent for one second, all with increased damage based on FAW rank. If there's no secondary target, then all FAW gets you is slightly increased ROF and damage.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
FAW3: ~135.8% DPS increase (single target)
CRF2: ~137.2% DPS increase (single target)
FAW3 vs. CRF3 (ignoring the LCdr angle)...
FAW3: ~135.8% DPS increase (single target)
CRF3: ~146.7% DPS increase (single target)
...those are just some quick Available Skills info numbers.
For DPS, I'm using the 0.5s activation delay that's not shown on the tooltips/etc.
Beams have a 4/5 RoF...but there's a 0.5s activation delay, so it's actually 4/5.5 (or more depending on any latency). Likewise, the 2/3 becomes 2/3.5 or more. CRF drops it from 2/3.5 to 2/3.1 (0.5 to 0.3 per shot on a DHC).
edit: How about some FAW/CSV action too? Again, just rough info numbers stuff.
FAW3 vs. CSV2 (maintaining the LCdr angle) vs 2 targets...
FAW3: ~271.6% DPS increase
CSV2: ~240.0% DPS increase
FAW3 vs. CSV2 (maintaining the LCdr angle) vs 3 targets...
FAW3: ~271.6% DPS increase (only 2 targets)
CSV2: ~359.9% DPS increase
FAW3 vs. CSV3 (ignoring the LCdr angle) vs 2 targets...
FAW3: ~271.6% DPS increase
CSV3: ~250.3% DPS increase
FAW3 vs. CSV3 (ignoring the LCdr angle) vs 2 targets...
FAW3: ~271.6% DPS increase (only 2 targets)
CSV3: ~375.4% DPS increase
edit: If anybody wanted to double check those - or - had other numbers already, that would be great. Those are very rough numbers and I wouldn't wager 2 EC on them being 100% correct.
edit: How about one last set while I've got the toon there...CSV vs. CRF and single target.
CRF3: ~146.7%
CSV3: ~125.1%
Great.
Now we just need them to do that damage past arm's length.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Did the FPER on the top of the charts use Phaser DBBs? For some reason I thought it was DHCs...
Ability: DPS / % of Table
Pets (Sum)*: 48,185 / 40.097%
Dual Phaser Banks - FAW2: 17,803 / 14.815%
Dual Phaser Banks - FAW3: 16,270 / 13.539%
Dual Phaser Banks: 12,199 / 10.151%
Refracting Tetryon Cascade: 3,965 / 3.3%
Cutting Beam: 3,815 / 3.175%
Phaser Beam Array - FAW2: 3,389 / 2.738%
Phaser Beam Array - FAW3: 3,058 / 2.545%
Heavy Bio-Molecular Phaser Turret: 2,902 / 2.415%
DEM1: 2,811 / 2.339%
TBR1: 2,573 / 2.141%
Phaser Beam Array: 1,662 / 1.383%
GW1: 1,426 / 1.187%
Dual Phaser Cannons - CRF1: 210 / 0.175%
*Includes Nadion Saturation Bomb/Nadion Radiation and a Typhoon (13,039 DPS).
Exactly: Cryptic guys have ruined this game when they nerfed the cannons.
Noobs gone crying out their cruisers did no damage -> Cryptic overpowers beam weapons and cruisers, so now we got cruisers that deals more damage than escorts.
The game was:
Escorts -> Damage
Cruiser -> Endurance
Science Vessels -> Support
Now we got:
Escorts -> TRIBBLE
Cruisers -> Top Damage and Endurance
Science Vessels -> More Damage, more endurance than Escorts ...
Congrats Devs, you made a wonderful job -_-
Oh, If you still don't get the point: They fuc**d up the very basics of this game ... if we had a role for every class, now we got a class that fill all the roles.
The problem is that the whole dev team is composed by people who never played this game, they don't know the problems they're causing and they don't mind...
Not a surprise the lack of players of these days ...
The last time I did a 5 DBB build was back when the 1st Xindi Escort was new. 5 DBBs, APB3 or APO3, BFAW3 was hilarious. It was like a field of fireworks was happening in front of me, complete with Disco Strobe Lights!
Funny enough its actually pretty canon that cruisers can deal more damage than escorts. :rolleyes:
*Looks at top dps ships*
Nope, that hasn't changed lately.
So, to FTFY that for you:
Escorts -> Top DPS
Cruisers -> Top Survivability
Science Vessels -> DPS of a Cruiser, Survivability of an Escort, and Sci Cheeze for days.
Unless of course you can prove us wrong and crack 120k in a cruiser.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
I've wondered about the folks that think it's Cruisers...like Escort-like ships can't DBB FAWgasm.
It's not "noobish" to do that, at all.
In theory, that should work.
But, the maths in previous posts indicate you'll do more damage with all arrays.
Pity something called a Dual Heavy Cannon does so little damage.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
So they overpowered beams. And that made escorts, which have higher tac-abilities but one less weaponslot less powerful, since those can only slot Cannons... oh wait.
I congratulate you for lousy arguments and little knowledge.
Turn Rate is useless if you have to use beams and guess what: Escorts gave shields and hull (and a weapon slot) in order to have a better turn rate, which made them able to use cannons, which are supposed to be the strongest energy weapons ...
but now cannons are not the strongest energy weapons, so escorts gave shields and hull for nothing ...
Think about it
My character Tsin'xing
DBBs fore & ODs aft
Er...it's what folks are running on their Escorts/Heavy Escorts/Extra Heavy Escorts...
Actually they still are the most efficient if you compare a DHC to a beam array on the same setup you'll notice the DHC does about twice the damage of the beam array for each hit, now when you consider 3 turrets with 4 DHCs is draining 78 power and compare that to 8 beams draining 80 power and then take into account that the DHC gets 2 firing cycles for the beam array's 1, now remember the DHC only fires twice per cycle where the array fires 4 per cycle.
When we compare single target capabilities of beams and cannons, DHCs higher DPH, slightly lower power drain (build-wide) gives them an advantage, on the other hand the wider arc of beams makes them better for killing multiple targets and of course, setting dps records.
The of course there are DBBs which give you the best of both worlds and are now viable for builds thanks to omni beams.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Let me tell you how 2 different ships fared in argala for me, and you see if cannons are not viable.
Time and time again, I ran argala with a Tac KDF player in a Mat'Ha raptor using 5 CRTDx3 DHC's up front and a cutting beam with CRTDx3 turrets aft. Used MK XII blue tac consoles. Argala runs would take about 4 minutes to complete, with X DPS according to combatlogreader.
Time and time again, I would run argala with a scimitar beam boat using romulan plasma CRTDx2 beam arrays all around with 1 experimental beam array and one cutting beam. Used MK XII blue tac consoles. Argala runs would take about 5 and a half minutes to run, with X DPS plus x/2 DPS.
So blowing stuff up faster means not viable? If you look at only the DPS, it looks like beam arrays totally outclass cannons, but logic tells you that getting it done faster means they are in fact not only viable, but can be better, in spite of the metrics.
Use what works for you best. If you are still unsure, get some DHCs, turrets, beam arrays, DBBs, etc. weapons with the same MK level, quality and modifiers and test it out on the cheap before sinking resources into one or the other. If you find that you make DBBs work best, then go with it.
In my testing, cannons are totally viable, even if they don't have the DPS numbers that beam arrays or dual beam banks do because they can blow things up just as fast, if not faster in the right circumstances.
Ultimately, if you bring the right tool to the right job, it will be effective.
Think 7 toons of mine go with beam setups and only 2 with DHCs. One for sentimental reason cuz I learned their benefit back on my NWS runs (rest in piece you wonderful map). The second one for plain and simple fun, and that toon offers the most fun I can get out of a space map. I pug a lot or go in with inexperienced teams. I think my cannons shredder 4 kasa cubes solo much faster than my beam builds would. Also CCA still rocks with grav well 1 on board from point blank range and offers 1st place without bother healing anybody or having a valdore console on board quiet often on that toon.
Think in a time where you can get cars with automatic transmission to make live easier and more efficient some still bet on manual.
The first one tends to make me fall asleep, the second keeps me entertained. :cool:
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autos are NOT more efficient. Humans can shift more intelligently -- most (not dragsters?) race cars are manual, and most "real" sport's cars as well. For a reason. Manuals cost less to make and maintain, perform better (with a skilled driver), use fuel better (slightly, again intelligent shifting, 10% or less savings typically), and are far more efficient or at worst equal to an automatic. The only advantages of an automatic are simpler to drive & allows cruise control.
4 minutes = 240s, 240s at X DPS = 240X total damage dealt.
5.5 minutes = 330s, 330s at 1.5X DPS = 495X total damage dealt.
There's something off about that if you need to deal a little over double the amount of damage to complete the encounter in your Scimitar, because PvE enemies aren't anywhere near clever enough to use that many recovery abilities.