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Retire just the currency not the ships.

huskerklghuskerklg Member Posts: 561 Arc User
salamiinferno said:
It turned out the change we made to make earning the ships more alt friendly had completely trivialized play of the events. Players could earn currency on all of their alts in one year, and then spend the currency from a single character every year to get the ship immediately. While some few players would then re-run the event on the character that spent their currency, the vast majority wouldn’t. Again, this meant participation was down while rewards were still earned at the same rate.

The changes don't address this.

All you had to do is retire the currency and not the ships. Then people could pick what ship they wanted to use it that events currency for.

And that was the concern of players. Not currency expiring, but the ships being retired. People can still spend lobi to speed it up also, so money making by your company isn't affected either.


And your change actually make another problem in participation worse.

There are times I (and others) don't want a particular ship from an event. For example Carriers. I have no interest in them at all.

Now instead of having the chance to get a past ship during the event, and possibly even spending money to speed it up, I will just not participate at all.

Again retire the currency. That is fine. That isn't the main concern being raised by the players. Don't retire the ships though.

You actually are hurting your bottom line with your change.

but it was one that we needed to make to maintain the integrity of this event and these ships.
Where have been huge complaints from players on this? There is no outcry from players making this complaint.


Allow me to be clear.

Cryptic is by now painfully aware that people are upset over retiring the Risian ships. This thread is not a news flash for them.

It remains to be seen whether the Devs will address this point or not.

Civil feedback from people who have not made their voices heard already is welcome.

But given recent events, I need to set some ground rules for this thread.

The first time someone starts throwing around insults or flaming the Devs or other forum users, I will shut this thread down.

The first time any of the forum rules are violated, in fact. This includes posting rants over and over. ~Bluegeek
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Comments

  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I don't like it, i don't agree with it, i think it is a sly move by Cryptic just to make participation metrics look good this year. But they haven't announced what the new shiny will be and if the reason why the old ships were being retired is because they were updating them to tier 6 ?

    Once again Cryptic have failed to communicate properly and it took a big thread of disgruntled people before a full explanation was given and then a compromise.

    They should of had the full reasons explained and more importantly announced what will be the prizes for this years event and what plans if any there were for the retiring ships. All done in one fell swoop. So we had the good, the bad and the ugly rather than just the ugly

    Public relations maybe they need to hire someone to perform that role

    Instead of that they've created a negative vibe and disatifaction within the player base and at this point in time have likely severely damaged peoples want and interest in this years event.
  • ssargonssargon Member Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Seems to me that a compromise, presuming the tech exists to do so, is to allow any account that existed during the old events [or even only accounts that participated during each event, if this information is tracked] to access the old event ships, and any account that didn't can't. There would be exclusivity as only people who were around back then can still get them, and it wouldn't lock out people who worked towards the goal more slowly due to life or other concerns.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,991 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    In fact there have already been 2 very long threads, here and in news. You had your chance to give feedback in either or both of those.

    Feedback has been gathered, summarized, considered and responded to already. Starting 20 new threads is not productive.
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Feedback has already been provided, at length, reported to the higher ups, and original thread on the issue is now closed. Opening another one to keep the fight going isn't going to help and, more likely, get you some nasty looks from the mods.

    True best way of venting our frustration now is to make a choice of letting it go and moving on still with a bad taste in the mouth or do our talking in the game when the events start by choosing not to play any of the event activities. Thats best response anyone who strongly disagrees with these changes can make.
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
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  • huskerklghuskerklg Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Disagree. Clearly still many people not satisfied with the response. Silencing it doesn't make it go away.
  • olliereportolliereport Member Posts: 721
    edited May 2015
    Feedback has already been provided, at length, reported to the higher ups, and original thread on the issue is now closed. Opening another one to keep the fight going isn't going to help and, more likely, get you some nasty looks from the mods.
    In fact there have already been 2 very long threads, here and in news. You had your chance to give feedback in either or both of those.

    Feedback has been gathered, summarized, considered and responded to already. Starting 20 new threads is not productive.


    Both of you could not be more wrong, there are people here who have not given feedback and beyond that there are tons of working busy people that don't follow everything 24/7 who are going to feel completely ambushed when this event starts.

    The title of this thread is perfect and the OP is well written without snark and rage. This OP topic, has not been completely heard.

    I agree with this. People love those ships from the events, make new ones, even better. But do not cutoff old ones. Please visit the reddit thread if you want more comprehensive information.

    Beyond all that, they are hurting their bottom line. The new delta people are at a critical point right now. They are leveled substantially and hitting serious paywalls. I had a conversation with one of them, they are trying to figure out what to do. Those free ships are the on-ramps to the paywall-highway. They will transition people into buying.

    As for retiring things and adding something T6ish. Great, do that! But don't delete the old stuff. Plenty of people like to collect stuff for the fun of it. (gotta catchem all!) and this pretty much just tosses that gameplay in the garbage. Who turns away customers, it baffles me completely.

    As for making something event exclusive, restrict that to social gear. There's plenty of opportunity to make something event exclusive without touching weapons or ships.
  • olliereportolliereport Member Posts: 721
    edited May 2015
    I should mention, the winter event ships induced to me to create alts. paying playing alts that generate income. And it was specifically the fact that I could get ALLLLL the ships in one fell swoop.

    If the older ones had been retired and all that was there was the new T6, I would not have been as motivated, at all. What's the point of getting one if you can't complete the set?

    I believe they are really missing out here. Like why wasn't the Samsar put in the ship store for dilthium or fleet credit before the ship sale. Have you any idea how many more of those one hundred dollar command ship bundles they would have sold if people were able to complete the console on their delta recruits? I'm baffled by this.
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
  • olliereportolliereport Member Posts: 721
    edited May 2015
    Typically, once a change has been announced either in the news, or added to the tribble notes, it means a final decision has been made.

    heh, well swg is living (dead?) proof you can "improve" things too much, even with well intentioned changes

    This reminds me of emergency medical training when I was a kid. The doctor told us how important it was to instruct people NOT to fully amputate damaged limbs because people, in some bizarre altered state, would do that to "clean things up".
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,532 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    players had ample opportunity to acquire the old ships with at least one character not only when they were first offered but in some cases in subsequent years, as the old ships can now be claimed by any character on your account (you have now or may roll in the future) through the c-store without having to do anything to gain them providing you acquired them on at least one character in the past I cant really see what the problem is.

    for any player who has never bothered to make sure they had got these ships in the passed you only have yourself to blame bearing in mind that just because something was available in game once does not mean it will always be available.
    westmetals wrote: »
    My personal feeling on this matter is that it's two separate changes, which apply to opposite portions of the player base, and the second was entirely unnecessary and counter-intuitive.

    Part two - retiring the old seasonal-event ships. This affects newer players - those who did not earn and claim the ships previously, and perhaps were not even playing when the event was held previously. It also affects new characters on old accounts - and we are just finishing up an event which was specifically and explicitly intended to encourage people to make new characters!.

    as I have said this does not affects new characters on old accounts, providing you have got the ships on even just one of your older characters you are free to claim them from the c-store on any of your existing characters or any characters you create in the future.

    if you did not get the previous event ships on any of the existing characters on your accounts when they were available, well you could not have wanted them very much could you.

    the only players that are going to miss out are new players that come after these ships were available as there are other things in the game that have been retired and are no longer available I don't see this as an issue.

    in actual fact as they are now account unlocks you also have the benefit of dismissing and reclaiming event ships just as if they were c-store ships as far as I can tell.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

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  • voivodjevoivodje Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I'd like to see the Risian Ships as a Mission Reward, much like in Temporal Ambassador, where you get a completely useless vehicle as reward.

    Who's with me? XD

    And yes, Cryptic, I can be a naughty boy... ;)
  • pwecangetlostpwecangetlost Member Posts: 538 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    if you did not get the previous event ships on any of the existing characters on your accounts when they were available, well you could not have wanted them very much could you.

    I ended up one run short for Q autographs or whatever they're called because of a ridiculously busy Winter with family problems etc. Very much wanted the ship, as I have done with each one so far. Now know what effort I made was a waste as the ship is going to be kept from me, whereas before I only needed to do 1 run to catch up and be sorted, now I'm not going to get it at all. :(
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    After reading everything from both this thread and the original... here's my 2 cents....

    Given the current situation I agree that IF retiring anything to do with the events is ABSOLUTELY necessary than the the currency should be the one thing to be retired. But let me throw some perspective on this....

    Yes, it is understandable that the old T5(current T5-U) event ships would be retired... but that is only because Cryptic/PWE CHOSE to add a whole new Tier of ships(i.e. T6) and a plethora of them over the course of the past 4 or so months. Which, naturally, made the old T5s(even when upgraded to T5-U) obsolete.

    Had we, as a community, chose to put up more of a stink over the introduction of T6 ships... I don't think we would be in the same situation we are in today.....

    But,again, since we are in the situation we are in (by the choice of Cryptic/PWE) we have no choice but to submit to their call of BOHICA.

    It's either that, or we quit.
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  • dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    No matter what the players complain about, Cryptic does what they want when they want. They never actually cared about the players. Only their bottom line and metrics.

    Despite what their metrics said, the summer, winter, and anniversary events are very popular. Especially for those that can't play 24/7. Retiring the currency, fine. Retiring the ship to prevent future characters from earning, BS. Spent all event getting the currency to get your new ship only to fall just shy of completing it before it's over? You're screwed. All that effort will go to waste. Now, it's set up so either you slot the event project when you have enough or you just TRIBBLE yourself. See a problem there devs?

    Most players I have known didn't mind grinding out the currency for the next years ships. And they loved being able to claim those ships. And honestly, it was almost the ONLY grind I actually enjoyed.

    Now if you want to make them exclusive, Remove them from the lobi store, and make it so the only way to get them is through the event. And make it so you have to run the event to get the currency and NOT PURCHASE THEM THROUGH LOCKBOXES. There, exclusivity made. But removing them entirely......c'mon, don't you know that players actually have a life OUTSIDE of STO?
  • centaurianalphacentaurianalpha Member Posts: 1,150 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So, I'm a bit confused: when you say the Risan ships are being retired, you mean they will no longer be sold, right? Because I'd be pretty upset if my fully-equipped ships were suddenly deleted from my account. All of mine have full reputations sets, with numerous expensive upgrades... :(
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So, I'm a bit confused: when you say the Risan ships are being retired, you mean they will no longer be sold, right? Because I'd be pretty upset if my fully-equipped ships were suddenly deleted from my account. All of mine have full reputations sets, with numerous expensive upgrades... :(

    You are correct although don't be surprised if the patch for the ship retirement deletes your active ships because knowing the flukes Cryptic has, that is a possibility. :rolleyes:
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  • christianmacchristianmac Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Ill put my 2 cents worth in. With the advent of their 6 and pilot ships and all that stuff the corvette and the cruiser are obsolete so let them be retired and let the team focus on making newer better ships.
    77TH FIGHTER SQUADRON
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So, I'm a bit confused: when you say the Risan ships are being retired, you mean they will no longer be sold, right? Because I'd be pretty upset if my fully-equipped ships were suddenly deleted from my account. All of mine have full reputations sets, with numerous expensive upgrades... :(

    Might be more accurate to say that the event reputation projects which reward those ships are being retired.

    Other aspects of the announcement as well as Salami_Inferno's post would not make sense if the ships themselves were being removed from the game completely.

    I don't recall them ever removing any item that has been claimed by a player. Heck, I still found old crafting particles on one character just this past week and another one hung on to a completely useless Delta Flyer schematic for years.

    Nerf, yes. Remove, no. If they meant removed, they would have specifically said removed. I think.
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  • captaintrueheartcaptaintrueheart Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It really is curious why they would not try to monetize those old ships? I understand they want to remove them from the event but why not put them in the Lobi store or Cstore? They already exist and if people want them, and would pay for them, why not take their money?

    I'd like to suggest they do that with every "limited" time ship/console/etc. If you don't want to pay for it, grind it out during the event. I'd have spent money to get that shotgun only available during the event as I didn't have time to grind it out while it was available.

    It's not game breaking that I don't have it, but if Cryptic wants to know things that would get me to give them my money, making limited time items available to buy with real money is one of those things.

    It's almost like they only want to sell ships... ships and only ships...
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  • olliereportolliereport Member Posts: 721
    edited May 2015
    Interesting, my knee-jerk thought is "hell no I won't buy an event ship, it's an event ship, it's supposed to be a reward". But, I suppose if it was interesting to me I would consider a c-store unlock. Not lobi, that's just simply too much, only for one char, too little value. Was there some kind of dev-reply to all this nonsense? People are talking about a c-store style unlock mechanic for event ships. Is that people just talking smack? (making stuff up)

    As for the idea that well "everyone who wanted it should have it". I think you forget who the customers are. Trek was on ages ago, people play from time to time have lives, and obligations, and commitments. It's part of why the delta rising difficulty changes where so tough on many people, why the ques are still under populated. There's a sizable group here that's just not 14yo pro-gamer. (though I support the difficulty changes, everyone needs challenges)






    I think I found a dev-post on reddit, that sounds so strange, should the official forums be the only source of news? Anyway, it seems new stuff will be account unlocks.

    I liked the past winter event better, with alt-discounts. Better participation, more people in the winter wonderland, more life.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    People are talking about a c-store style unlock mechanic for event ships. Is that people just talking smack? (making stuff up)

    More like wishful thinking. The Devs have not said anything of the sort. But, some promo ships were made available through the fleet system and the DSD promo was put in the lobi store so there's some precedent for the idea that past ships might be made available.
    I think I found a dev-post on reddit, that sounds so strange, should the official forums be the only source of news?

    Some of the Devs have semi-personal accounts on Twitter/Reddit/etc where they comment on the game.

    Trendy's doing her best to make sure that really official news appears on the official website one way or the other. But they do have customers that don't use the forums and it's not entirely inappropriate for them to reach out via other mediums as well.

    We forum users sometimes forget that the Community is actually bigger than just the forums.
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  • olliereportolliereport Member Posts: 721
    edited May 2015
    Yeah, ok, I'm old. I'm used to games where they keep a hammer-lock on information and only let it go from channels that they own. The whole new media thing, multi-channel live feeds and whatnot, some of it is lost on me. Though the reddit stuff is interesting.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,550 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    bluegeek wrote: »
    We forum users sometimes forget that the Community is actually bigger than just the forums.

    But if it is important information, then it should be released in as many ways as possible. If a dev makes a post about Inspiration affecting lag on Reddit, then it should be available on the forums, Twitter, Facebook, and whatever else they use.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I know everyone wants to hope that complaining about it will change their minds but I really can't see it happening.

    When cryptic are set on something, they take it all the way. Even if its a bad idea. Which for some reason I cannot fully understand why.

    You are correct, retiring the currency would make more sense rather than the ships.

    I also dont see how it trivilized the event. Frankly I dont think replaying the event is based on what they get from it but based on the replayability of the content within the event itself.

    If the event was actually fun then people would replay it.

    Moaning about alts being the cause of lack of participation is silly unless their metrics are based on acccounts and not characters. Frankly if they want people to play the event they should make the events much more appertizing to players a new ship alone will not do it. sure people want it but a lot of people dont always find the events fun. They need to be a bit more broard with their approach to content within events and make them more engaging for multiple players not just a solo-run. Because frankly most of the time these events end up being soloable there are sometimes some group aspects to it but overall the events are solo heavy and its boring that way.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Because frankly most of the time these events end up being soloable there are sometimes some group aspects to it but overall the events are solo heavy and its boring that way.

    You may have noticed over the years that there has been an increased push toward solo activities. Cryptic didn't do that out of the blue. Folks have asked for it. Lots of folks simply do not want to play with other folks. Some folks go so far as resenting that they have to play with other folks...
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