I don't do STF's anymore, they're just not fun like they used to be. I know, I'm not the only one.
Since they added the marks for special item projects. I do STf's only for the marks. Soon as I get the marks I need, I bail. Borg STF's are still the best/only way to earn Omega marks.
The normal difficulty is easy enough, you can run many multiples and rack up all teh marks you need without near as much effort as it used to take.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
It is so sickening trying to do an advanced STF to get VR crafting mats only to run out of time on one silly objective. Then my time has been wasted and the cool down period makes it so I can't try again.
It is so sickening trying to do an advanced STF to get VR crafting mats only to run out of time on one silly objective. Then my time has been wasted and the cool down period makes it so I can't try again.
1) Get better.
2) Fly with those that are better.
3) Profit.
1) Do something else.
2) Work the Exchange.
3) Profit.
1) Continue doing the same.
2) Complain on forums.
3) No Profit.
It's like this...though I'd say in most cases people don't even want to learn...they just want pre-DR back where they can be carried through elites.
People don't want to do better and instead they complain and or quit...
Perfect example in pugs that 95% of the time team chat is ignored...even if you're trying to explain it nicely and not be a jerk like some people...
Or they're mostly casual, don't care about DPS, can't afford the gear necessary to care about DPS, don't go near the forums becuase of its reputation as a cesspool, don't want to spend their free time researching a video game just to be able to play it, and if they do probably don't want to have to navigate the place to find one and then go through it to see if its an actually useful guide that actually knows anything about what the basic casual player does and doesn't have access to or can afford to get.
Or they're mostly casual, don't care about DPS, can't afford the gear necessary to care about DPS, don't go near the forums becuase of its reputation as a cesspool, don't want to spend their free time researching a video game just to be able to play it, and if they do probably don't want to have to navigate the place to find one and then go through it to see if its an actually useful guide that actually knows anything about what the basic casual player does and doesn't have access to or can afford to get.
Why did you start that off with an "Or"...when you didn't say anything different?
Why did you start that off with an "Or"...when you didn't say anything different?
Because I'm pointing out that often its not very useful advice, or sometimes comes in an incredible snarky or condescending manner that can be off putting especially if they spend more time insulting you and stroking their own ego than giving actual advice, or involves so much effort to find if you do even find it that its probably not worth it the long run.
In other words its not them being lazy per say just so much as the advice might not actually be helpful.
Because I'm pointing out that often its not very useful advice, or sometimes comes in an incredible snarky or condescending manner that can be off putting especially if they spend more time insulting you and stroking their own ego than giving actual advice, or involves so much effort to find if you do even find it that its probably not worth it the long run.
In other words its not them being lazy per say just so much as the advice might not actually be helpful.
It's like this...though I'd say in most cases people don't even want to learn...they just want pre-DR back where they can be carried through elites.
People don't want to do better and instead they complain and or quit...
Perfect example in pugs that 95% of the time team chat is ignored...even if you're trying to explain it nicely and not be a jerk like some people...
"In other words its not them being lazy per say..."
Lazy wasn't said at all...
They don't want to learn...no reason given, simply they don't.
They just want pre-DR back where they could be carried...no reason given for why they want to be carried, simply they want to be carried.
They don't want to do better...no reason given for wh they don't want to do better, simply they don't want to do better.
Which is why I wondered why you started with the "Or", since you didn't disagree - rather you just gave reasons for why they don't want to learn, want to be carried, and don't want to do better.
I had a KSN (yeah, I've been running a bunch of Normals on late to spend a little more time watching what folks do). They kept rushing in to Donatra so she would cloak. I didn't say anything. I wanted to see if they'd figure it out. "Hrmm, Jerry, each time I fly in close to her she cloaks." "Tom, let's see what happens if you don't do that." Nope, they just kept on doing it. Nobody else said anything either. So it's done, and I'm typing out the "Cheers, all...btw, flying in on Donatra like that causes" and that's as far as I got cause they'd already all left. History suggests mentioning it while it's happening doesn't tend to go well, no matter how one might try to say it.
Then again, Hell, odds of folks even speaking the same language to communicate things...lol...
So yeah, somebody hears the forums are a cesspool...they can hit up Google, no? Set the time filter, yeah?
It goes on and on, cause it's nothing new...it's not even a DR discussion...the same arguments have been going on as long as I can remember...getting far worse with F2P and since.
Something is offered as a reward for additional effort/investment/etc.
Player A) what do I need to do to do this?
Player what can Cryptic do so I don't need to do this?
One might say it goes hand in hand with the game going F2P and the kind of folks that invites, eh?
And even when it doesn't get into that, it's going to be the lolwut definition of casual some folks have.
"Hi, I'm casual...I need everything now. I need it now!"
Lolwut???
Here's mine...
"Hi, I'm casual...I'll get what I want when I get it. It's all cool."
The first...that's hardcore entitlement; ain't a damn thing casual about it.
The second...maybe I've only got so much time to spend, so it happens when it happens - maybe I'm only going to do this easier and less frustrating stuff, so it will take however long it takes.
Now, if the first person were actually saying...
"Hi, I'd like to participate in some hardcore PvE or PvP; and this stuff just takes too long to get or do so that I can do what I want to do - cause I need that stuff now to do what I want."
...that's pretty straightforward, no? It can be brutal to get into some of the high-end stuff in the game with how long it can take now compared to how it was prior to S7 or even S6 - and it just keeps getting worse.
But that compared to...
"Hi, I'm casual - I need all the best gear right now so that all my ships are kitted out perfectly cause I like to sit in orbit and look at all my cool stuff."
...and one should consider seeking some therapy. Cause that's a condition.
Cause normal is going to be...
"Hi, I'm casual - it's been pretty nifty collecting stuff as I go along and as I can, so I can sit here in orbit and check out the cool visual FX or just dork around with things."
* * * * *
Yep, it's a game mainly focused on casual play - extremely casual play - that doesn't mean that everything is going to be provided in gift baskets and there might just be stuff in the game for other folks to do as well.
I know I'm babbling here, but these discussions have been going on for years and the game has only gotten worse cause Cryptic inevitably listens to folks posting in them...with neither those posters nor Cryptic giving two seconds thought about how the changes would affect the game.
* * * * *
Hey, hartzilla, just wanted to say I know I might be raging a bit (aggro's high cause my blood sugar's high), but that I'm not raging at you...
Or they're mostly casual, don't care about DPS, can't afford the gear necessary to care about DPS, don't go near the forums becuase of its reputation as a cesspool, don't want to spend their free time researching a video game just to be able to play it, and if they do probably don't want to have to navigate the place to find one and then go through it to see if its an actually useful guide that actually knows anything about what the basic casual player does and doesn't have access to or can afford to get.
VD pointed very well what are casuals. On other threads with this same issue with casuals, I pointed that those who want to do advance, belong at normal and not improve self arent casuals. Because, in real definition, not self created definition, casuals shouldnt care about these rewards and stuff.
We have identified what specific type of player who wants advance mission nerfs. Its players who refuse to improve self/team but insists on being at somewhere they dont belong and has nothing to do with real definition casual players that wants this nerf.
You're correct about the other avenues. However, as I mentioned, most players don't even KNOW about it. Even if they did, they would be far less likely to want to do them, as they take FAR longer, and often take them out of the venues they want to play in. For example, Defera is a GROUND area, unlike the STFs which are SPACE missions.
The result is that most players do the Advanced STFs, either because they don't know they have other options, or because the other options are unpalatable in some way.
As I said before, the solution was to grant the rewards in ALL difficulty levels. It still IS the best solution, if you ask me.
How sure are you that is the sentiments of majority of the players?
How sure are you that majority of the playerbase dont do this or that? You TRIBBLE cryptics stat?
There are players who dont care about rewards
There are players who dont do STFs
There are players who are content with Normal or whatever they are doing.
There are players who can do advance and/or elite without the devs changing stuff.
This issue specifically stems from players who cannot complete advance STF PuGs by refusing other in game mechanics but believe they deserve to be in advance STF. Can you say that this specific playerbase is the majority?
Everyone wants to be able to earn the rep gear. That means you need the Neural Processors, Ancient Powercells and so forth.
Since those items cannot be attained by playing "Normal" STFs, they're forced to try the "Advanced" STFs.
Um no, they can be obtained elsewhere besides STF queues alone and, even marks can be converted to those now!
This is not an excuse anymore but, one people still try to use!
It's not merely an excuse, it's a reality. You can't dismiss this.
You can get Processors from the Defera Adventurezone.
You can get Implants from the Dyson Ground Battlezone.
You can get Injections from the Dyson Space Battlezone.
You can get Power Cells from the Kobali Adventurezone.
You can get Data Cores from the Kobali Adventurezone.
They also added the 100 Marks -> 1 Elite Mark conversion every 20 hours.
edit: Almost forgot the E-Marks given at T5.
Neither New Romulus nor Nukara gear requires any Elite Marks.
edit2: As for taking far longer...cause I just noticed the rest of the post (it was odd that you disagreed with one poster and agreed with the other who said the same as the first).
So that's 26 E-Marks...right? 13 days for all the E-Marks one would need.
While the Voth/Undine require the same 26, one can get those E-Marks much faster than just 2 a day.
With Omega, the weapon set doesn't require BNPs and there's no Core. 15 BNPs for a 3pc set if one wanted it.
Without a Sponsorship token, one is looking at it taking 40 days (40x 20 hour projects) to get to T5. During those 40 days, one can accumulate all sorts of Marks and E-Marks and will receive more Marks and E-Marks upon hitting T5...as well as working up some Dil for the items as well as EC...and getting more upon hitting T5 as well.
No, we're not back preS7 where one could be done with a character in less than a week - sometimes done if they started Friday after getting home from work and before they went to bed Sunday night.
edit3: As for players not knowing if they have any options...what exactly is stopping them from asking?
"Man, this kind of sucks - in order to get this stuff I have to do this? I'm not ready to do this. Meh, I wonder if there's any other way to get this stuff? Hrmmm, maybe I'll go look..."
Even if they did, they would be far less likely to want to do them, as they take FAR longer, and often take them out of the venues they want to play in. For example, Defera is a GROUND area, unlike the STFs which are SPACE missions.
Er, first with this bit...STF is Special Task Force...has nothing to do with Space or Ground, as there are both Space and Ground STFs as well as general PvE queues (for those that are sticklers on STF being applied to queues other than those initial STFs). But yeah, some folks prefer Space over Ground (outside of a handful of BHE/BHAs I ran, I've only run one other Ground queue in over three years and that was by accident). The GBZ, Defera, Kobali are just so easy though - don't even have to worry about switching out any traits or gearing, etc - like I would if I was doing any Ground queues.
But the key bit, imho, would be the "as they take FAR longer" aspect. Well, if you're giving 1 E-Mark in Normal and 2 E-Marks in Advanced...Normal could be seen as taking twice as long as Advanced...Normal could be seen as taking three times as long as Elite.
So unless there was some form of gating in place with that...how much would it change the issues that exist already with Advanced and Elite and will only get worse as Cryptic rolls out their other changes?
How does it become the best option there? Cause folks could just steamroll through Normals to get stuff done - flipping through a bunch of them - getting it done? But that kind of shows an element of effort, no? If somebody's showing that element of effort - just how much more effort would it take for them to hit up Advanced and do the same, eh?
Course, Cryptic having made them available outside of the queues like they have has removed that value from them...the sheer speed that one can get some of those E-Marks outside of queues has basically killed the queues attached to them.
Would it be the E-Mark to Dil thing? Well, Dil's falling like rain during monsoon season - so that's not really much of an issue, yeah? We wouldn't have all the increase the refine cap threads if it weren't a case that folks just weren't tripping all over the place with Dil, right?
So yeah, offer those E-Marks in Normal...course, why are we still calling them Elite Marks at this point? Nothing Elite about getting them already. Couldn't call them Special Marks either, cause there's nothing Special about them either. The Other Marks, eh?
It's kind of gotten to the point one could say there really isn't a need for any of those Other Marks, yeah? Sure, they provide a discount on items and can be traded for Dil...but the normal Marks can be too.
One could say a solution would be to remove them, simply increasing the cost of the items by the discount those Other Marks provided.
3 E-Marks = 1000 Dilithium
100 Marks = 1 E-Mark
Wouldn't be too difficult just to adjust the prices of everything based on that...bumping either the Marks required, Dilithium required, or some combination of the two.
Voila...no more E-Mark issues!
But it still wouldn't have addressed the issues with Advanced and Elite, eh? Cause even if it's raining Dilithium all over the place...not all Reps are raining Marks equally, so some folks are going to be looking at those Advanced/Elite queues to get those Marks while not being prepared in the least to do so.
The gist? The problem with so many of the solutions offered to fix some problem?
Folks will usually acknowledge that it is a player created issue...but they don't offer solutions that take into account the players...often ignoring how those solutions will just make those player created issues worse.
Yeah, just get rid of the E-Marks and sort out the pricing on things...ie...Task Force Omega Space Set gear needs to be cheaper.
* * * * *
They were basically Tracking Marks for metrics - getting players to do certain things and keeping tabs on it - but with the various changes they've done, those E-Marks can no longer serve that purpose...so yeah, just get rid of them.
"In other words its not them being lazy per say..."
Lazy wasn't said at all...
Yes but lets be honest here, its what some of the hardcore players are thinking when they complain about que performance.
Yep, it's a game mainly focused on casual play - extremely casual play - that doesn't mean that everything is going to be provided in gift baskets and there might just be stuff in the game for other folks to do as well.
No but it will probably be made easier for the casuals to get it as that means more people are doing the things to get them.
Otherwise we may find those things getting removed from the game as Cryptic might start seeing them as a waste of time and resources.
They are already talking about removing ques.
I know I'm babbling here, but these discussions have been going on for years and the game has only gotten worse cause Cryptic inevitably listens to folks posting in them...with neither those posters nor Cryptic giving two seconds thought about how the changes would affect the game.
Except thats pretty much where the difficulty spike came from. People basically complaining about how easy STFs had gotten with the new gear without considering the capabilities of the majority of the player base.
It also doesn't help that the changes were basically more ships, making them HP sponges, and making things people probably didn't pay that much attention to before now mandatory, and slashing the rewards you get for doing it, not to mention making success the higher difficulties based on gear gotten from the rng based upgrade system. or the fact that the difficulty spike seems more like normal>>>>>>>>advanced>>elite, than normal>>>advanced>>>elite.
Which is probably why the ques are empty because they aren't challenging, they're just a pain that doesn't given enough rewards to be worth the time, effort, and aggravation to do them.
Don't need anything from them - haven't needed anything from them for the most part for a long time now and they've made it even more a case of not needing anything from them.
I run the queues I like...I don't run the queues because of needing anything from them. Even on a new toon, it's just so much easier and potentially less frustrating to get everything elsewhere. Cryptic has made it so easy and keeps on making it easier to get stuff outside of the queues.
It's something to do in a game that doesn't really have much of anything to do. Pugging Advanced, just like pugging Elite was, is one of two sources of dynamic content in this game. And well, PvP, yeah...lol. Back in the day? Sure...definitely...mainly. Now? Lol...
Groups where folks were somewhat prepared, active, not trolling, and there was a chance at success (not guaranteed success)...that was the fun keeping me logging in. I'm not into the how fast can I do it...not into the how much DPS can I do. With pre-DR Elite I kept my builds under 10k...with DR Advanced, I work to keep them below 20k. Build goes over 20k, I change it to do less...just like I did pre-DR with builds that might go over 10k.
Groups that have no chance in Hell from the start though...there's no challenge in that. It's a DOA run. I have fun in the run being challenging but possible. Don't need the guaranteed success...that's boring to me. Group just missed preventing a fail but it was a good faith effort...awesome, winning has no meaning if it's always winning...I don't recall the shows/movies portraying the heroes as bullies flying around the galaxy roflstomping everything.
You're there in Cure, d'oh, something goes wrong - somebody gets popped by a lucky string of crits or they trigger something they maybe shouldn't have...wham, bam, a challenge created - trying to cover for that - are there mobs on the way to Kang and the run doomed? Same in Khitomer...oopsie happens...can the group recover - can they rise to the occasion? Infected? Yep...same. Etc, etc, etc....
Sure, it's cliche in a sense...but the whole facing potential ruin and defeat, the hero/heroes rise to the challenge...yadda, yadda, yadda.
If there's no potential defeat and no need to rise to the challenge, might as well be moving bricks from one pile to the next day in and day out. Yay! Er...no.
While I enjoy those kinds of thrills. I feel there are vastly superior ideas available for epic failures than a boot right in my backside!
Creating epic thrills requiring everything from a battery to a Hail Mary can be programmed. I know Cryptic has a fundamental understanding of RNG, they just need to use their imagination better. Inflated hitpoints and getting kicked out is, in my book, lazy!
See what F2P has done to gaming. In this instance, the developers have made the game so hard that only the people who have the best gear are able to complete the stfs. What does that require, Money. People don't have the patience (nor should they have to) to grind out materials for months to be able to play with thier friends. Its a crying shame, it reallly is. Whats worse is if STO has investors it has to please every month. Now if that is the case theres nothing in the game thats safe from being monetized, nothing.
See what F2P has done to gaming. In this instance, the developers have made the game so hard that only the people who have the best gear are able to complete the stfs. What does that require, Money. People don't have the patience (nor should they have to) to grind out materials for months to be able to play with thier friends. Its a crying shame, it reallly is. Whats worse is if STO has investors it has to please every month. Now if that is the case theres nothing in the game thats safe from being monetized, nothing.
Bull! I was using a Fleet Sovereign with Mk XII Rep and Fleet gear - that anyone can get simply by playing - and I was doing 15,000 DPS.
Post DR I am using a T5U Fleet Sovereign - I used my free Upgrade Token. I am currently blowing through ASTFs with ease using the same Mk XII free gear. In fact in the last 7 months, since DR came out, I have only Upgrades 3 pieces of gear to Mk XIII - and managed to get a few Mk XIII drops. Most of my ship is still Mk XII and I have nothing at Mk XIV. I have not failed an ASTF yet.
And in case you were unaware, Shareholders are investors. In fact based on PW's 2014 year ends $71 million of their profits will go to Shareholders this year. When you are a publicly traded company you always have investors.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think it's worth nothing that this is ISA the OP is talking about - an STF that has been here for nearly 5 years.
People are having trouble completing a mission that, though it has been re-done once or twice, is largely the same mission we've been doing for 5 years now.
That's telling.
Its becasue STO goes through New players like X-Lax. I would imagine that only a handful of ppl that play the game have been here longer than 6 months and thats only the vets. I hardly ever hear of anyone buying a life time sub anymore and if you think about it. Compared to what cryptic used to, how often do they even advertise or run the lifetime sale anymore. Its becasue they know New players spend the cash. New players will spend (Splurge) a bunch of money and when they relize what thier really getting they are gone. Then the next bunch rolls in. Then we vets have to put up with new players who are playing the missions for the first time. Rinse and repeat. Its all about the money don't ever think its not.
Bull! I was using a Fleet Sovereign with Mk XII Rep and Fleet gear - that anyone can get simply by playing - and I was doing 15,000 DPS.
Post DR I am using a T5U Fleet Sovereign - I used my free Upgrade Token. I am currently blowing through ASTFs with ease using the same Mk XII free gear. In fact in the last 7 months, since DR came out, I have only Upgrades 3 pieces of gear to Mk XIII - and managed to get a few Mk XIII drops. Most of my ship is still Mk XII and I have nothing at Mk XIV. I have not failed an ASTF yet.
And in case you were unaware, Shareholders are investors. In fact based on PW's 2014 year ends $71 million of their profits will go to Shareholders this year. When you are a publicly traded company you always have investors.
Bull! I was using a Fleet Sovereign with Mk XII....Fleet gear - that anyone can get simply by playing - and I was doing 15,000 DPS.
Depends on how much stuff you have to turn into fleet credits, how many projects are available to put the stuff in, what tier the holding needed to get the gear is and what tier your fleet has reached, if you have $5-$25 bucks in fleet modules, if your fleet has enough requisitions, permission settings and how they effect you acquiring fleet stuff, oh and actually being in a fleet.
It honestly astounds me how people throw fleet gear out there as a solution to the DPS problem when its not that easy to get outside of a mega fleet.
Except thats pretty much where the difficulty spike came from. People basically complaining about how easy STFs had gotten with the new gear without considering the capabilities of the majority of the player base.
Unless that's simply not the reason why, yeah? Cryptic runs their metrics, they get their reports...separated between private runs and standard runs...seeing how quickly things are being done.
So they knew how quickly the average folks were doing - they know what they're adding to the game - they changed it because of that...while having an idea of who should be running what in place - which they even stated.
"Our goal was to make basic difficulty and the story content something everyone can play - even with a standard T5 ship. Levels 1-50 are generally pretty easy at basic difficulty, so we felt 51-60 should step things up a bit. Although we expect 51-60 accessible everyone, those in T5 ships and non-upgraded gear should to start to feel a definite challenge as they approach level 60. We expect Advanced to be for more skilled players and those who have invested in the game (ships and gear). And we expect Elite to be for the best of the best. We don't expect most players to succeed on elite difficulty."
"We did warn you that Elite is not for everyone. Its pretty extreme. Seriously, most players should not be able to do it."
Warn people? Yes, there was Matt Miller's blog on Sep 19th about it: Queue Revamp
If you see an Elite mode on a queued event after Delta Rising has launched, you should know that this is not for the faint of heart. These queues are designed to test our best and most powerful Captains in the game. Players have yearned for a challenge, and this is it. Enemies on Elite will hit significantly harder and be harder to kill, and at the same time, the missions themselves will take clockwork precision to complete.
And there is the supposed increase in difficulty for players "yearning" for a challenge were to get. Not Advanced...Elite. Cause the challenge path goes Normal -> Advanced -> Elite. The Elite level was missing. What about Advanced? From the same blog...
"Advanced does offer some new challenges as well. Many objectives that were optional in Normal mode are now required in Advanced mode. We hope you were paying attention during your playthroughs of Normal before jumping into Advanced. Beginning with the release of Delta Rising, failure to complete these formerly optional objectives will result in the immediate failure of the mission. Upon failure, you will receive a portion of the rewards that you would have received for completing the mission, so you still are rewarded for your time spent in the event."
Oh, that pay attention in Normal - learn in Normal thing that players had been saying for years before DR was ever hinted at...and...have continued to say; cause so many players ignore it.
Course, Cryptic tends to lack a certain level of finesse and show a history (imho) of being heavy handed, so Advanced at launch...was so much lolwut...which led to Geko's thread on Nov 4th addressing that: More changes to space critter difficulty
"Shortly after launch of Delta Rising, I made a post asking for your input on balance for levels 51-60 balance. I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for their input. Raising the level cap with 3 difficulty settings is a big task. The difference in skill and gear from one player to another can be very large, so getting the balance right can be a challenge.
A little over a week or so ago, we made some changes to difficulty. Based on additional feedback, as well as continuing data mining, we are in the process of making another pass. We will be noticeably reducing the HP and shields of all space critters from levels 51-60. This change will have more of an effect at level 60 than 51. This change will affect Basic and Advanced difficulty, but not affect Elite Difficulty."
And they nerfed the mobs into the Ground, with the reduced difficulty requiring around half the DPS that was required at launch...meaning that Advanced would generally only require 1-3k DPS per player than the old Elite did. Still, players go on complaining as if it requires twice what it did at DR's launch.
It also doesn't help that the changes were basically more ships, making them HP sponges, and making things people probably didn't pay that much attention to before now mandatory, and slashing the rewards you get for doing it, not to mention making success the higher difficulties based on gear gotten from the rng based upgrade system. or the fact that the difficulty spike seems more like normal>>>>>>>>advanced>>elite, than normal>>>advanced>>>elite.
Making the ships HP sponges (which they were, but then weren't) isn't about increasing difficulty - it increases time. It slows things down a little. Mobs still hit for laughable damage compared to what players do and mobs still attack once in a blue moon compared to how fast players spam stuff.
And again, players not paying attention is the fault of players...plenty of other folks somehow managed to pay attention, no? So what is the argument there - "players shouldn't have to pay attention" or some such?
Is Normal too easy for many folks? Yeah, but that hasn't changed - some folks have better gear and are better players, so Normal is easier for many than it was prior to DR - but Normal being too easy isn't anything new. Want to close the gap between Normal and Advanced? Then address the Normal tier, no?
1) Normal is far too easy.
2) The gap between Normal and Advanced is too wide.
Folks are saying that Normal needs to be more difficult. And well, imho, it should be. Normal should be harder than 5 players teamed doing an episode on Normal...cause it's a "dungeon", and even at Normal it should be harder than 5 players teamed doing an episode on Normal, yeah?
As far as needing better gear for Advanced, maybe if they'd left it at the difficulty they had at the launch of DR. With what they dropped it down to, folks don't need anything more than a T5 9 console boat with a mix of mission rewards/drops...cause the required DPS is low even by pre-DR potential DPS.
All things do is allow you to run things faster and faster...allows one to run that treadmill to nowhere faster.
That run that took 18 minutes, starts to take 15 minutes, starts to take 12 minutes, starts to take 9 minutes, starts to take 6 minutes, starts to take 3 minutes...it's not that you need the gear for that 3-6 minute run to do it at all...just to do it faster and faster.
Which is probably why the ques are empty because they aren't challenging, they're just a pain that doesn't given enough rewards to be worth the time, effort, and aggravation to do them.
The queues are likely empty for a plethora of reasons. Let me see if I can find the post...and I can't. The words are too common to search and Google's just laughing at me.
So I guess a feeble attempt at recreating a partial list, eh?
The public queues were already dying as folks have been moving to channel runs (whether DPS League, Star Trek Battles, Fleets, or various other channels) over the years. That was already in play...cause people have long been tired of playing with the unprepared, the leechers, and the trolls. Some people just gave up, not bothering to go to channel runs and just ignoring the queues altogether.
The stuff paxdawn's been offering as advice and people have been arguing about...it's the same advice that folks were given in 2014, 2013, 2012, etc - cause the problem's not new.
If somebody is just running a particular queue for an item, say an E-Mark, they only need so many of them...then they no longer need to run them, yeah? Beyond that, with the way Cryptic has continued to make those (and everything else) easier to get elsewhere - is there even the need to run them in the first place?
"And everything else" - yeah, if one doesn't need to run something cause they can get it elsewhere, unless they enjoy it - are they going to run it? And those that enjoy a certain queue, are they going to put up with the unprepared, leechers, and trolls or head to some sort of channel run?
You've also got things like the Specializations as well as Upgrades...which some folks see as anti-alt-friendly, cause they can't easily max out their 15-40 alts. But yeah, those folks that might have been doing all their alts to the max, they would have been running all those toons through the queues, yeah?
Meh, I really wish I could have found the list I did - it was a long one of so many reasons that explain why the queues are the way they are and how it shouldn't come as a surprise.
I mean, seriously, years of folks asking for everything outside of the queues...Cryptic doing that...just what would one expect to happen to the queues, eh?
This isn't the first thread about this...the first thread about this didn't come with Delta Rising...it's always been a small group complaining and making excuses, year after year after year.
It honestly astounds me how people throw fleet gear out there as a solution to the DPS problem when its not that easy to get outside of a mega fleet.
Personally I bought access to a Fleet's shipyards and pay to access their fleet stores periodically.
It's cost me a number of lockbox keys or items over time, but I've found it to be a good investment. Especially because I've not found a fleet/guild/whatever in any game I'm generally happy with as a member.
But I can see why a newer player without an LTS/huge investment in this game would feel uncomfortable going that route. (I also have a personal fleet to grind FC for myself, my fiance, and brother.)
Depends on how much stuff you have to turn into fleet credits, how many projects are available to put the stuff in, what tier the holding needed to get the gear is and what tier your fleet has reached, if you have $5-$25 bucks in fleet modules, if your fleet has enough requisitions, permission settings and how they effect you acquiring fleet stuff, oh and actually being in a fleet.
It honestly astounds me how people throw fleet gear out there as a solution to the DPS problem when its not that easy to get outside of a mega fleet.
And I will say bull to you too.
There are T5 Fleets on this forum who advertise free access for people to just join and get things they might want. Sure, you might have to play a bit to earn some Fleet Credits, but it is a game. It is supposed to be played. Likewise, Fleet Modules can be purchased via the Dilthium Exchange or on the regular Exchange - all in-game currencies earned via playing.
At the end of the day it is nothing more then a whine about how X is not automatically given to us. Poor me! I have to play for a month or two to earn something. It is too hard and time consuming.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Got to love the varied pricing, yeah?
Yeah, just get rid of the E-Marks and sort out the pricing on things...ie...Task Force Omega Space Set gear needs to be cheaper.
* * * * *
They were basically Tracking Marks for metrics - getting players to do certain things and keeping tabs on it - but with the various changes they've done, those E-Marks can no longer serve that purpose...so yeah, just get rid of them.
I think it's because the old borg stf's, give the most numerous amount of marks, compared to most of the newer ones on average.
See what F2P has done to gaming. In this instance, the developers have made the game so hard that only the people who have the best gear are able to complete the stfs. What does that require, Money. People don't have the patience (nor should they have to) to grind out materials for months to be able to play with thier friends. Its a crying shame, it reallly is. Whats worse is if STO has investors it has to please every month. Now if that is the case theres nothing in the game thats safe from being monetized, nothing.
Best gear? I still run thru these using mkxi + freebie ship no less on one toon and, he does perfectly fine so, it isn't actually needed in normal & advanced.
Yes but lets be honest here, its what some of the hardcore players are thinking when they complain about que performance.
Actually, I think most are thinking "arrogantly ignorant".
They're absolutely convinced they're awesome, they have nothing left to improve in terms of skill/build/knowledge, so obviously the problem is everything else.
The most common example being the "the only reason I can't do it is because my gear isn't fancy enough!" people.
I appreciate those players who say, "you should learn how to do the missions on normal before moving to advanced or elite." However, people who say that really aren't paying attention to what is happening in the game.
After the devs added the fail conditions to the PVE queues I immediately went back to "relearn" all of the queues. I am 100 percent CERTAIN that I know what to do in any PVE that I queue as advanced or elite.
Still, I end up in at least two public advanced queues every time I play that fail.
I'm not the freaking problem. The problem is the idiot players who don't know what they are doing and RUIN the entire match for everyone on the team.
They didn't just fail and lose out on rewards ... they WASTED the time of all the other team members who queued that instance. All team members end up losing rewards, waiting for the cool down on that event to clear, and losing valuable playing time. The last part might not bother kids or people with really flexible schedules, but working adult players might only have a few hours to play each week and the insta-fails make that limited time even more limited.
Sure, some people will say, "make friends or join an in-game channel to find other players who know what they are doing and only play private queues."
Again, if my play time is limited then I don't want to have to limit my time even further to when my friends are available or when a handful of other serious players are looking at the in-game chat.
Almost all MMOs rely on public/open team play in order to maintain an active player base. If the open/public queues with decent rewards (the advanced or elite queues) are constantly failing because of idiots then it makes people not want to play.
There are several ways the devs could solve this and here are just a few that come to mind:
1) Make it so that even the "normal" queues are guaranteed to reward ONE item needed for reputation gear advancement (a Borg neural processor, Iconian orb, whatever). Advanced queues reward TWO of those items and Elite queues reward THREE.
This way idiots can play on normal and still get the stuff they need to slowly acquire reputation gear without TRIBBLE over other players in advanced and elite queues.
2) Build logic into the game to identify which team member screwed up, and at the end of the match that player and that player ALONE ends up with a consolation prize of only 10 marks and a message telling them they screwed up. All other team members get the full rewards.
3) Build logic into the game to identify which team member screws up, and if they TRIBBLE up then ALL advanced and elite queues are locked out for 24 hours for that player or until the player successfully completes 6 PVE queues on the normal setting.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
There are several ways the devs could solve this and here are just a few that come to mind:
1) Make it so that even the "normal" queues are guaranteed to reward ONE item needed for reputation gear advancement (a Borg neural processor, Iconian orb, whatever). Advanced queues reward TWO of those items and Elite queues reward THREE.
This way idiots can play on normal and still get the stuff they need to slowly acquire reputation gear without TRIBBLE over other players in advanced and elite queues.
This would become a leech farmers dream so, not the ultimate best idea!
2) Build logic into the game to identify which team member screwed up, and at the end of the match that player and that player ALONE ends up with a consolation prize of only 10 marks and a message telling them they screwed up. All other team members get the full rewards.
Really bad idea, because there would be virtually no reason to succeed and, follows what I mentioned for #1.
3) Build logic into the game to identify which team member screws up, and if they TRIBBLE up then ALL advanced and elite queues are locked out for 24 hours for that player or until the player successfully completes 6 PVE queues on the normal setting.
A tad harsh on the 24hrs bit but, I can agree with the needing to do some normals, for them to be able to do advanced - elite.
The problem is, how would it even really know exactly who screwed it up, seeing how it could be all 5 players combined, that actually screwed it up?
A tad harsh on the 24hrs bit but, I can agree with the needing to do some normals, for them to be able to do advanced - elite.
The problem is, how would it even really know exactly who screwed it up, seeing how it could be all 5 players combined, that actually screwed it up?
Should all 5 players than be punished?
also you need to consider whether it was action or inaction that caused things to fail. Or maybe it was an appropriate action, that was timed wrong? (like using TBR but hitting the button at the wrong time and pushing them closer instead of farther.)
Comments
Since they added the marks for special item projects. I do STf's only for the marks. Soon as I get the marks I need, I bail. Borg STF's are still the best/only way to earn Omega marks.
The normal difficulty is easy enough, you can run many multiples and rack up all teh marks you need without near as much effort as it used to take.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
1) Get better.
2) Fly with those that are better.
3) Profit.
1) Do something else.
2) Work the Exchange.
3) Profit.
1) Continue doing the same.
2) Complain on forums.
3) No Profit.
Or they're mostly casual, don't care about DPS, can't afford the gear necessary to care about DPS, don't go near the forums becuase of its reputation as a cesspool, don't want to spend their free time researching a video game just to be able to play it, and if they do probably don't want to have to navigate the place to find one and then go through it to see if its an actually useful guide that actually knows anything about what the basic casual player does and doesn't have access to or can afford to get.
Why did you start that off with an "Or"...when you didn't say anything different?
Player A) What can I do so that I am able to do this?
Player
They don't like each other.
Because I'm pointing out that often its not very useful advice, or sometimes comes in an incredible snarky or condescending manner that can be off putting especially if they spend more time insulting you and stroking their own ego than giving actual advice, or involves so much effort to find if you do even find it that its probably not worth it the long run.
In other words its not them being lazy per say just so much as the advice might not actually be helpful.
This is what was said...
"In other words its not them being lazy per say..."
Lazy wasn't said at all...
They don't want to learn...no reason given, simply they don't.
They just want pre-DR back where they could be carried...no reason given for why they want to be carried, simply they want to be carried.
They don't want to do better...no reason given for wh they don't want to do better, simply they don't want to do better.
Which is why I wondered why you started with the "Or", since you didn't disagree - rather you just gave reasons for why they don't want to learn, want to be carried, and don't want to do better.
I had a KSN (yeah, I've been running a bunch of Normals on late to spend a little more time watching what folks do). They kept rushing in to Donatra so she would cloak. I didn't say anything. I wanted to see if they'd figure it out. "Hrmm, Jerry, each time I fly in close to her she cloaks." "Tom, let's see what happens if you don't do that." Nope, they just kept on doing it. Nobody else said anything either. So it's done, and I'm typing out the "Cheers, all...btw, flying in on Donatra like that causes" and that's as far as I got cause they'd already all left. History suggests mentioning it while it's happening doesn't tend to go well, no matter how one might try to say it.
Then again, Hell, odds of folks even speaking the same language to communicate things...lol...
So yeah, somebody hears the forums are a cesspool...they can hit up Google, no? Set the time filter, yeah?
It goes on and on, cause it's nothing new...it's not even a DR discussion...the same arguments have been going on as long as I can remember...getting far worse with F2P and since.
Something is offered as a reward for additional effort/investment/etc.
Player A) what do I need to do to do this?
Player
One might say it goes hand in hand with the game going F2P and the kind of folks that invites, eh?
And even when it doesn't get into that, it's going to be the lolwut definition of casual some folks have.
"Hi, I'm casual...I need everything now. I need it now!"
Lolwut???
Here's mine...
"Hi, I'm casual...I'll get what I want when I get it. It's all cool."
The first...that's hardcore entitlement; ain't a damn thing casual about it.
The second...maybe I've only got so much time to spend, so it happens when it happens - maybe I'm only going to do this easier and less frustrating stuff, so it will take however long it takes.
Now, if the first person were actually saying...
"Hi, I'd like to participate in some hardcore PvE or PvP; and this stuff just takes too long to get or do so that I can do what I want to do - cause I need that stuff now to do what I want."
...that's pretty straightforward, no? It can be brutal to get into some of the high-end stuff in the game with how long it can take now compared to how it was prior to S7 or even S6 - and it just keeps getting worse.
But that compared to...
"Hi, I'm casual - I need all the best gear right now so that all my ships are kitted out perfectly cause I like to sit in orbit and look at all my cool stuff."
...and one should consider seeking some therapy. Cause that's a condition.
Cause normal is going to be...
"Hi, I'm casual - it's been pretty nifty collecting stuff as I go along and as I can, so I can sit here in orbit and check out the cool visual FX or just dork around with things."
* * * * *
Yep, it's a game mainly focused on casual play - extremely casual play - that doesn't mean that everything is going to be provided in gift baskets and there might just be stuff in the game for other folks to do as well.
I know I'm babbling here, but these discussions have been going on for years and the game has only gotten worse cause Cryptic inevitably listens to folks posting in them...with neither those posters nor Cryptic giving two seconds thought about how the changes would affect the game.
* * * * *
Hey, hartzilla, just wanted to say I know I might be raging a bit (aggro's high cause my blood sugar's high), but that I'm not raging at you...
VD pointed very well what are casuals. On other threads with this same issue with casuals, I pointed that those who want to do advance, belong at normal and not improve self arent casuals. Because, in real definition, not self created definition, casuals shouldnt care about these rewards and stuff.
We have identified what specific type of player who wants advance mission nerfs. Its players who refuse to improve self/team but insists on being at somewhere they dont belong and has nothing to do with real definition casual players that wants this nerf.
How sure are you that is the sentiments of majority of the players?
How sure are you that majority of the playerbase dont do this or that? You TRIBBLE cryptics stat?
There are players who dont care about rewards
There are players who dont do STFs
There are players who are content with Normal or whatever they are doing.
There are players who can do advance and/or elite without the devs changing stuff.
This issue specifically stems from players who cannot complete advance STF PuGs by refusing other in game mechanics but believe they deserve to be in advance STF. Can you say that this specific playerbase is the majority?
You can get Processors from the Defera Adventurezone.
You can get Implants from the Dyson Ground Battlezone.
You can get Injections from the Dyson Space Battlezone.
You can get Power Cells from the Kobali Adventurezone.
You can get Data Cores from the Kobali Adventurezone.
They also added the 100 Marks -> 1 Elite Mark conversion every 20 hours.
edit: Almost forgot the E-Marks given at T5.
Neither New Romulus nor Nukara gear requires any Elite Marks.
edit2: As for taking far longer...cause I just noticed the rest of the post (it was odd that you disagreed with one poster and agreed with the other who said the same as the first).
What is far longer?
With the Delta/Iconian stuff...
Deflector 5
Engines 5
Core 5
Shields 5
Console 2
Weapon#1 2
Weapon#2 2
So that's 26 E-Marks...right? 13 days for all the E-Marks one would need.
While the Voth/Undine require the same 26, one can get those E-Marks much faster than just 2 a day.
With Omega, the weapon set doesn't require BNPs and there's no Core. 15 BNPs for a 3pc set if one wanted it.
Without a Sponsorship token, one is looking at it taking 40 days (40x 20 hour projects) to get to T5. During those 40 days, one can accumulate all sorts of Marks and E-Marks and will receive more Marks and E-Marks upon hitting T5...as well as working up some Dil for the items as well as EC...and getting more upon hitting T5 as well.
No, we're not back preS7 where one could be done with a character in less than a week - sometimes done if they started Friday after getting home from work and before they went to bed Sunday night.
edit3: As for players not knowing if they have any options...what exactly is stopping them from asking?
"Man, this kind of sucks - in order to get this stuff I have to do this? I'm not ready to do this. Meh, I wonder if there's any other way to get this stuff? Hrmmm, maybe I'll go look..."
Just sticking with the E-Marks and not considering the VR R&D Mats, you'd said this...
...and so let's look at what else you said...
Er, first with this bit...STF is Special Task Force...has nothing to do with Space or Ground, as there are both Space and Ground STFs as well as general PvE queues (for those that are sticklers on STF being applied to queues other than those initial STFs). But yeah, some folks prefer Space over Ground (outside of a handful of BHE/BHAs I ran, I've only run one other Ground queue in over three years and that was by accident). The GBZ, Defera, Kobali are just so easy though - don't even have to worry about switching out any traits or gearing, etc - like I would if I was doing any Ground queues.
But the key bit, imho, would be the "as they take FAR longer" aspect. Well, if you're giving 1 E-Mark in Normal and 2 E-Marks in Advanced...Normal could be seen as taking twice as long as Advanced...Normal could be seen as taking three times as long as Elite.
So unless there was some form of gating in place with that...how much would it change the issues that exist already with Advanced and Elite and will only get worse as Cryptic rolls out their other changes?
How does it become the best option there? Cause folks could just steamroll through Normals to get stuff done - flipping through a bunch of them - getting it done? But that kind of shows an element of effort, no? If somebody's showing that element of effort - just how much more effort would it take for them to hit up Advanced and do the same, eh?
Course, Cryptic having made them available outside of the queues like they have has removed that value from them...the sheer speed that one can get some of those E-Marks outside of queues has basically killed the queues attached to them.
Would it be the E-Mark to Dil thing? Well, Dil's falling like rain during monsoon season - so that's not really much of an issue, yeah? We wouldn't have all the increase the refine cap threads if it weren't a case that folks just weren't tripping all over the place with Dil, right?
So yeah, offer those E-Marks in Normal...course, why are we still calling them Elite Marks at this point? Nothing Elite about getting them already. Couldn't call them Special Marks either, cause there's nothing Special about them either. The Other Marks, eh?
It's kind of gotten to the point one could say there really isn't a need for any of those Other Marks, yeah? Sure, they provide a discount on items and can be traded for Dil...but the normal Marks can be too.
One could say a solution would be to remove them, simply increasing the cost of the items by the discount those Other Marks provided.
3 E-Marks = 1000 Dilithium
100 Marks = 1 E-Mark
Wouldn't be too difficult just to adjust the prices of everything based on that...bumping either the Marks required, Dilithium required, or some combination of the two.
Voila...no more E-Mark issues!
But it still wouldn't have addressed the issues with Advanced and Elite, eh? Cause even if it's raining Dilithium all over the place...not all Reps are raining Marks equally, so some folks are going to be looking at those Advanced/Elite queues to get those Marks while not being prepared in the least to do so.
The gist? The problem with so many of the solutions offered to fix some problem?
Folks will usually acknowledge that it is a player created issue...but they don't offer solutions that take into account the players...often ignoring how those solutions will just make those player created issues worse.
Zero-Point Energy Conduit: 30,000 EC - 15,000 Dilithium - 500 Romulan Marks
Nukara Particle Converter: 30,000 EC - 15,000 Dilithium - 500 Nukara Marks
Proton Particle Stabilizer: 30,000 EC - 15,000 Dilithium - 500 Dyson Sphere Marks - 2 Voth Cybernetic Implants
Hydrodynamics Compensator: 30,000 EC - 15,000 Dilithium - 500 Undine Marks - 2 Isomorphic Injections
Bio-Neural Gel Pack: 30,000 EC - 15,000 Dilithium - 500 Delta Marks - 2 Ancient Power Cells
Sustained Radiant Field: 30,000 EC - 15,000 Dilitihium - 500 Iconian Marks - 2 Iconian Probe Datacores
* * * * *
Hell, they're not even providing a discount.
* * * * *
Assimilated Deflector Array: 40,000 EC - 32,500 Dilithium - 900 Omega Marks - 3 Borg Neural Processors
Honor Guard Deflector Dish: 40,000 EC - 34,000 Dilithium - 1000 Omega Marks - 5 Borg Neural Processors
Romulan Advanced Prototype Deflector Dish: 40,000 EC - 32,000 Dilithium - 750 Romulan Marks
Nukara Deflector Array: 40,000 EC - 32,500 Dilithium - 750 Nukara Marks
Dyson Deflector Array: 40,000 EC - 32,500 Dilithium - 750 Dyson Sphere Marks - 5 Voth Cybernetic Implants
Counter-Command Deflector Array: 40,000 EC - 32,500 Dilithium - 750 Undine Marks - 5 Isomorphic Injections
Delta Alliance Deflector Array: 40,000 EC - 32,500 Dilithium - 750 Delta Marks - 5 Ancient Power Cells
Iconian Resistance Deflector Array: 40,000 EC - 32,500 Dilithium - 750 Iconian Marks - 5 Iconian Probe Datacores
* * * * *
Got to love the varied pricing, yeah?
Yeah, just get rid of the E-Marks and sort out the pricing on things...ie...Task Force Omega Space Set gear needs to be cheaper.
* * * * *
They were basically Tracking Marks for metrics - getting players to do certain things and keeping tabs on it - but with the various changes they've done, those E-Marks can no longer serve that purpose...so yeah, just get rid of them.
Yes but lets be honest here, its what some of the hardcore players are thinking when they complain about que performance.
No but it will probably be made easier for the casuals to get it as that means more people are doing the things to get them.
Otherwise we may find those things getting removed from the game as Cryptic might start seeing them as a waste of time and resources.
They are already talking about removing ques.
Except thats pretty much where the difficulty spike came from. People basically complaining about how easy STFs had gotten with the new gear without considering the capabilities of the majority of the player base.
It also doesn't help that the changes were basically more ships, making them HP sponges, and making things people probably didn't pay that much attention to before now mandatory, and slashing the rewards you get for doing it, not to mention making success the higher difficulties based on gear gotten from the rng based upgrade system. or the fact that the difficulty spike seems more like normal>>>>>>>>advanced>>elite, than normal>>>advanced>>>elite.
Which is probably why the ques are empty because they aren't challenging, they're just a pain that doesn't given enough rewards to be worth the time, effort, and aggravation to do them.
While I enjoy those kinds of thrills. I feel there are vastly superior ideas available for epic failures than a boot right in my backside!
Creating epic thrills requiring everything from a battery to a Hail Mary can be programmed. I know Cryptic has a fundamental understanding of RNG, they just need to use their imagination better. Inflated hitpoints and getting kicked out is, in my book, lazy!
Brody
Post DR I am using a T5U Fleet Sovereign - I used my free Upgrade Token. I am currently blowing through ASTFs with ease using the same Mk XII free gear. In fact in the last 7 months, since DR came out, I have only Upgrades 3 pieces of gear to Mk XIII - and managed to get a few Mk XIII drops. Most of my ship is still Mk XII and I have nothing at Mk XIV. I have not failed an ASTF yet.
And in case you were unaware, Shareholders are investors. In fact based on PW's 2014 year ends $71 million of their profits will go to Shareholders this year. When you are a publicly traded company you always have investors.
Its becasue STO goes through New players like X-Lax. I would imagine that only a handful of ppl that play the game have been here longer than 6 months and thats only the vets. I hardly ever hear of anyone buying a life time sub anymore and if you think about it. Compared to what cryptic used to, how often do they even advertise or run the lifetime sale anymore. Its becasue they know New players spend the cash. New players will spend (Splurge) a bunch of money and when they relize what thier really getting they are gone. Then the next bunch rolls in. Then we vets have to put up with new players who are playing the missions for the first time. Rinse and repeat. Its all about the money don't ever think its not.
Good for you. You win the internet.
Depends on how much stuff you have to turn into fleet credits, how many projects are available to put the stuff in, what tier the holding needed to get the gear is and what tier your fleet has reached, if you have $5-$25 bucks in fleet modules, if your fleet has enough requisitions, permission settings and how they effect you acquiring fleet stuff, oh and actually being in a fleet.
It honestly astounds me how people throw fleet gear out there as a solution to the DPS problem when its not that easy to get outside of a mega fleet.
Unless that's simply not the reason why, yeah? Cryptic runs their metrics, they get their reports...separated between private runs and standard runs...seeing how quickly things are being done.
So they knew how quickly the average folks were doing - they know what they're adding to the game - they changed it because of that...while having an idea of who should be running what in place - which they even stated.
Geko's Oct 15th thread: New Difficulty
"Our goal was to make basic difficulty and the story content something everyone can play - even with a standard T5 ship. Levels 1-50 are generally pretty easy at basic difficulty, so we felt 51-60 should step things up a bit. Although we expect 51-60 accessible everyone, those in T5 ships and non-upgraded gear should to start to feel a definite challenge as they approach level 60. We expect Advanced to be for more skilled players and those who have invested in the game (ships and gear). And we expect Elite to be for the best of the best. We don't expect most players to succeed on elite difficulty."
Geko posted this in ciranfera's Oct 14th thread: Difficulty Feedback (was "Terrible Elite Mode")
"We did warn you that Elite is not for everyone. Its pretty extreme. Seriously, most players should not be able to do it."
Warn people? Yes, there was Matt Miller's blog on Sep 19th about it: Queue Revamp
If you see an Elite mode on a queued event after Delta Rising has launched, you should know that this is not for the faint of heart. These queues are designed to test our best and most powerful Captains in the game. Players have yearned for a challenge, and this is it. Enemies on Elite will hit significantly harder and be harder to kill, and at the same time, the missions themselves will take clockwork precision to complete.
And there is the supposed increase in difficulty for players "yearning" for a challenge were to get. Not Advanced...Elite. Cause the challenge path goes Normal -> Advanced -> Elite. The Elite level was missing. What about Advanced? From the same blog...
"Advanced does offer some new challenges as well. Many objectives that were optional in Normal mode are now required in Advanced mode. We hope you were paying attention during your playthroughs of Normal before jumping into Advanced. Beginning with the release of Delta Rising, failure to complete these formerly optional objectives will result in the immediate failure of the mission. Upon failure, you will receive a portion of the rewards that you would have received for completing the mission, so you still are rewarded for your time spent in the event."
Oh, that pay attention in Normal - learn in Normal thing that players had been saying for years before DR was ever hinted at...and...have continued to say; cause so many players ignore it.
Course, Cryptic tends to lack a certain level of finesse and show a history (imho) of being heavy handed, so Advanced at launch...was so much lolwut...which led to Geko's thread on Nov 4th addressing that: More changes to space critter difficulty
"Shortly after launch of Delta Rising, I made a post asking for your input on balance for levels 51-60 balance. I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for their input. Raising the level cap with 3 difficulty settings is a big task. The difference in skill and gear from one player to another can be very large, so getting the balance right can be a challenge.
A little over a week or so ago, we made some changes to difficulty. Based on additional feedback, as well as continuing data mining, we are in the process of making another pass. We will be noticeably reducing the HP and shields of all space critters from levels 51-60. This change will have more of an effect at level 60 than 51. This change will affect Basic and Advanced difficulty, but not affect Elite Difficulty."
And they nerfed the mobs into the Ground, with the reduced difficulty requiring around half the DPS that was required at launch...meaning that Advanced would generally only require 1-3k DPS per player than the old Elite did. Still, players go on complaining as if it requires twice what it did at DR's launch.
Making the ships HP sponges (which they were, but then weren't) isn't about increasing difficulty - it increases time. It slows things down a little. Mobs still hit for laughable damage compared to what players do and mobs still attack once in a blue moon compared to how fast players spam stuff.
And again, players not paying attention is the fault of players...plenty of other folks somehow managed to pay attention, no? So what is the argument there - "players shouldn't have to pay attention" or some such?
Is Normal too easy for many folks? Yeah, but that hasn't changed - some folks have better gear and are better players, so Normal is easier for many than it was prior to DR - but Normal being too easy isn't anything new. Want to close the gap between Normal and Advanced? Then address the Normal tier, no?
1) Normal is far too easy.
2) The gap between Normal and Advanced is too wide.
Folks are saying that Normal needs to be more difficult. And well, imho, it should be. Normal should be harder than 5 players teamed doing an episode on Normal...cause it's a "dungeon", and even at Normal it should be harder than 5 players teamed doing an episode on Normal, yeah?
As far as needing better gear for Advanced, maybe if they'd left it at the difficulty they had at the launch of DR. With what they dropped it down to, folks don't need anything more than a T5 9 console boat with a mix of mission rewards/drops...cause the required DPS is low even by pre-DR potential DPS.
All things do is allow you to run things faster and faster...allows one to run that treadmill to nowhere faster.
That run that took 18 minutes, starts to take 15 minutes, starts to take 12 minutes, starts to take 9 minutes, starts to take 6 minutes, starts to take 3 minutes...it's not that you need the gear for that 3-6 minute run to do it at all...just to do it faster and faster.
The queues are likely empty for a plethora of reasons. Let me see if I can find the post...and I can't. The words are too common to search and Google's just laughing at me.
So I guess a feeble attempt at recreating a partial list, eh?
The public queues were already dying as folks have been moving to channel runs (whether DPS League, Star Trek Battles, Fleets, or various other channels) over the years. That was already in play...cause people have long been tired of playing with the unprepared, the leechers, and the trolls. Some people just gave up, not bothering to go to channel runs and just ignoring the queues altogether.
The stuff paxdawn's been offering as advice and people have been arguing about...it's the same advice that folks were given in 2014, 2013, 2012, etc - cause the problem's not new.
If somebody is just running a particular queue for an item, say an E-Mark, they only need so many of them...then they no longer need to run them, yeah? Beyond that, with the way Cryptic has continued to make those (and everything else) easier to get elsewhere - is there even the need to run them in the first place?
"And everything else" - yeah, if one doesn't need to run something cause they can get it elsewhere, unless they enjoy it - are they going to run it? And those that enjoy a certain queue, are they going to put up with the unprepared, leechers, and trolls or head to some sort of channel run?
You've also got things like the Specializations as well as Upgrades...which some folks see as anti-alt-friendly, cause they can't easily max out their 15-40 alts. But yeah, those folks that might have been doing all their alts to the max, they would have been running all those toons through the queues, yeah?
Meh, I really wish I could have found the list I did - it was a long one of so many reasons that explain why the queues are the way they are and how it shouldn't come as a surprise.
I mean, seriously, years of folks asking for everything outside of the queues...Cryptic doing that...just what would one expect to happen to the queues, eh?
This isn't the first thread about this...the first thread about this didn't come with Delta Rising...it's always been a small group complaining and making excuses, year after year after year.
Personally I bought access to a Fleet's shipyards and pay to access their fleet stores periodically.
It's cost me a number of lockbox keys or items over time, but I've found it to be a good investment. Especially because I've not found a fleet/guild/whatever in any game I'm generally happy with as a member.
But I can see why a newer player without an LTS/huge investment in this game would feel uncomfortable going that route. (I also have a personal fleet to grind FC for myself, my fiance, and brother.)
There are T5 Fleets on this forum who advertise free access for people to just join and get things they might want. Sure, you might have to play a bit to earn some Fleet Credits, but it is a game. It is supposed to be played. Likewise, Fleet Modules can be purchased via the Dilthium Exchange or on the regular Exchange - all in-game currencies earned via playing.
At the end of the day it is nothing more then a whine about how X is not automatically given to us. Poor me! I have to play for a month or two to earn something. It is too hard and time consuming.
I think it's because the old borg stf's, give the most numerous amount of marks, compared to most of the newer ones on average.
Best gear? I still run thru these using mkxi + freebie ship no less on one toon and, he does perfectly fine so, it isn't actually needed in normal & advanced.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Actually, I think most are thinking "arrogantly ignorant".
They're absolutely convinced they're awesome, they have nothing left to improve in terms of skill/build/knowledge, so obviously the problem is everything else.
The most common example being the "the only reason I can't do it is because my gear isn't fancy enough!" people.
I appreciate those players who say, "you should learn how to do the missions on normal before moving to advanced or elite." However, people who say that really aren't paying attention to what is happening in the game.
After the devs added the fail conditions to the PVE queues I immediately went back to "relearn" all of the queues. I am 100 percent CERTAIN that I know what to do in any PVE that I queue as advanced or elite.
Still, I end up in at least two public advanced queues every time I play that fail.
I'm not the freaking problem. The problem is the idiot players who don't know what they are doing and RUIN the entire match for everyone on the team.
They didn't just fail and lose out on rewards ... they WASTED the time of all the other team members who queued that instance. All team members end up losing rewards, waiting for the cool down on that event to clear, and losing valuable playing time. The last part might not bother kids or people with really flexible schedules, but working adult players might only have a few hours to play each week and the insta-fails make that limited time even more limited.
Sure, some people will say, "make friends or join an in-game channel to find other players who know what they are doing and only play private queues."
Again, if my play time is limited then I don't want to have to limit my time even further to when my friends are available or when a handful of other serious players are looking at the in-game chat.
Almost all MMOs rely on public/open team play in order to maintain an active player base. If the open/public queues with decent rewards (the advanced or elite queues) are constantly failing because of idiots then it makes people not want to play.
There are several ways the devs could solve this and here are just a few that come to mind:
1) Make it so that even the "normal" queues are guaranteed to reward ONE item needed for reputation gear advancement (a Borg neural processor, Iconian orb, whatever). Advanced queues reward TWO of those items and Elite queues reward THREE.
This way idiots can play on normal and still get the stuff they need to slowly acquire reputation gear without TRIBBLE over other players in advanced and elite queues.
2) Build logic into the game to identify which team member screwed up, and at the end of the match that player and that player ALONE ends up with a consolation prize of only 10 marks and a message telling them they screwed up. All other team members get the full rewards.
3) Build logic into the game to identify which team member screws up, and if they TRIBBLE up then ALL advanced and elite queues are locked out for 24 hours for that player or until the player successfully completes 6 PVE queues on the normal setting.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
A tad harsh on the 24hrs bit but, I can agree with the needing to do some normals, for them to be able to do advanced - elite.
The problem is, how would it even really know exactly who screwed it up, seeing how it could be all 5 players combined, that actually screwed it up?
Should all 5 players than be punished?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing