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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

Accidental Warp Field

rekurzionrekurzion Member Posts: 697 Arc User
edited May 2015 in Ten Forward
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/04/nasa-may-have-accidentally-developed-a-warp-drive/

More strangeness from the EmDrive.
Post edited by rekurzion on

Comments

  • raj011raj011 Member Posts: 987 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I hope this is true. One step closer to making it a reality.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    raj011 wrote: »
    I hope this is true. One step closer to making it a reality.

    and knowing our primitive understanding, technology and risk taking, there is just as much an equal chance of this thing is causing a dooom!!!11!!1!!!1!! situation.

    i remain very skeptical.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • rekurzionrekurzion Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    mirrorchaos wrote: »
    i remain very skeptical.

    Of course but this device is getting stranger and stranger with each test.
  • raj011raj011 Member Posts: 987 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rekurzion wrote: »
    http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/04/nasa-may-have-accidentally-developed-a-warp-drive/

    More strangeness from the EmDrive.
    mirrorchaos wrote: »
    and knowing our primitive understanding, technology and risk taking, there is just as much an equal chance of this thing is causing a dooom!!!11!!1!!!1!! situation.

    i remain very skeptical.

    Best to be skeptical of course. More evidence needed. Obviously they will see both the positives and negatives of this technology and hopefully they will use this to help humanity and the Earth. Laws will be made to make sure this technology is not miss used and may be have high authority to use it. I am hoping this will unite us or at least bring us one step closer.
  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rekurzion wrote: »
    http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/04/nasa-may-have-accidentally-developed-a-warp-drive/

    More strangeness from the EmDrive.

    Link won't work
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    This "device" has never been tested in vacuum. The most likely explanation so far for its supposed "reactionless drive" involves microwave heating of the air inside the device.

    The physics supposedly behind it are nonsense as well. I class this as being only slightly more plausible than the Dean Drive, and this report as being the worst sort of sensationalization surrounding a lack of data.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • rekurzionrekurzion Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    and this report as being the worst sort of sensationalization surrounding a lack of data.

    it is. there were only two articles online when this popped up. so i'm definitely keeping an eye out in the coming days. but this "device" is taking the attention of NASA, even if it is a few guys part of a small fringe department, strange results keep popping up.
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited April 2015
    rekurzion wrote: »
    Of course but this device is getting stranger and stranger with each test.

    As was cold fusion for a short time back in the late 80s. ;)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Enh... scientific advancement is about trying stuff and recording the results. Explanations for what happens.... we'll get to that eventually.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • rekurzionrekurzion Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    UPDATES

    From NASASpaceFlight.com

    And apparently it DOES work in a vacuum...

    But no official word from the EmDrive NASA team about that little bit on getting light particles to travel faster than light.

    Still this should be fun: explain how this device violates a pillar of physics axioms by creating new physics or realize your forgot to carry the 1
  • raj011raj011 Member Posts: 987 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rekurzion wrote: »
    UPDATES

    From NASASpaceFlight.com

    And apparently it DOES work in a vacuum...

    But no official word from the EmDrive NASA team about that little bit on getting light particles to travel faster than light.

    Still this should be fun: explain how this device violates a pillar of physics axioms by creating new physics or realize your forgot to carry the 1

    Yes, I and many others have been commenting on this on nasaspaceflight.com. Hopefully this is true and Lockheed Martin makes their compact nuclear fusion reactor or another organisation making a fusion reactor to power the EM drive.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Personally, I don't care how interstellar travel is accomplished, just that it happens within my lifetime. It could be a drawing on the ground that is activated through some verbal response for all we know. After all, Demon Summoning involves transporting beings from a parallel universe to our universe. It should be relatively easy to convert it to summon humans from Earth to Alpha Centauri.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    And again, while I'd love this to be true, I'm not going to go getting all hopeful until this is published somewhere besides an online discussion forum. There's no guarantee the "results" you're reading on there are even coming from NASA.

    Now, if/when there's an official press release, or better yet publication in a peer-reviewed journal (or, best of all, a press conference held in orbit of Alpha Centauri B in the wake of a successful test), I'll get all excited about it. But I've seen too many Dean Drives and suchlike over the decades.
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  • nuwok1nuwok1 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Don't believe the hype. The EmDrive doesn't work. This is just another case of bad reporting.

    http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/08/01/dont-buy-stock-in-impossible-space-drives-just-yet/

    Also, mysteriousuniverse.org is a pseudoscience website. If you want science, don't read websites that talk about the paranormal or conspiracy theories.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rekurzion wrote: »
    UPDATES

    From NASASpaceFlight.com

    And apparently it DOES work in a vacuum...

    But no official word from the EmDrive NASA team about that little bit on getting light particles to travel faster than light.

    Still this should be fun: explain how this device violates a pillar of physics axioms by creating new physics or realize your forgot to carry the 1
    I don't see it as a huge deal. Scientific "laws" are merely constructs created by the human imagination in an attempt to explain what the world does and how it does it. When our understanding improves these constructs will change. It's inevitable.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    Personally, I don't care how interstellar travel is accomplished, just that it happens within my lifetime. It could be a drawing on the ground that is activated through some verbal response for all we know. After all, Demon Summoning involves transporting beings from a parallel universe to our universe. It should be relatively easy to convert it to summon humans from Earth to Alpha Centauri.

    .....w-what?
    nuwok1 wrote: »
    Don't believe the hype. The EmDrive doesn't work. This is just another case of bad reporting.

    http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/08/01/dont-buy-stock-in-impossible-space-drives-just-yet/

    Actually you should read your article a bit closer. It doesn't even remotely say that it doesn't work. What it actually says is that the results are essentially inconclusive and more tests need to be done. The device apparently produces some kind of force, but they don't know what that is just yet.

    So pretty much the words of the day are "we're still working on it."
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    kojirohellfire wrote: »
    .....w-what?

    My point is that I don't care which ridiculous method is used to allow for interstellar travel as long as I can see it in my lifetime and it works. Magic has as much of a chance to work as any of the other ideas used. After all, a few of the interstellar travel theories requires exotic matter which is currently a theoretical substance and might not even exist. For all we know, exotic matter could be fairy dust and Peter Pan was actually using a FTL drive that was powered by exotic matter.
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited May 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    For all we know, exotic matter could be fairy dust and Peter Pan was actually using a FTL drive that was powered by exotic matter.

    And yet another reboot Peter Pan origin story script is born. :rolleyes: :D
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    steamwright wrote: »
    And yet another reboot Peter Pan origin story script is born. :rolleyes: :D

    Make him a grey alien and you've really got something spooky and intuitive.

    Kidnaps children in the middle of the night? Check.
    Looks short and childlike? Check.
    Based on fairy lore? CHECK!

    Peter Pan is ready to probe you at a theater near you.
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    This "device" has never been tested in vacuum.
    Wrong. They did a vacuum test in early April. It still produced the mysterious thrust.

    http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/
    However, Paul March, an engineer at NASA Eagleworks, recently reported in NASASpaceFlight.com’s forum (on a thread now over 500,000 views) that NASA has successfully tested their EM Drive in a hard vacuum – the first time any organization has reported such a successful test.

    So that already debunks this:
    The most likely explanation so far for its supposed "reactionless drive" involves microwave heating of the air inside the device.

    What they haven't done in vacuum yet, is measuring space-time inside this device with their interferometer.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    And you apparently didn't bother reading further. I have posted again, you know.

    And I'm still not going to run about flailing my arms until we get something a little more reliable than a post in an online forum, which is the only place any of this has been "published". It's not exactly a peer-reviewed journal, is it? And you're probably not old enough to remember the Dean Drive, but you may be old enough to remember Pons and Fleischman's cold fusion "breakthrough". Turned out to be a chemical reaction that Pons and Fleischman hadn't expected, rather than the nuclear-fusion reaction they imagined it might be. (In the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, speaking ex cathedra as Sherlock Holmes, "It is a capital mistake to theorise in the absence of data. Insensibly, one begins to twist fact to fit theories, rather than theories to fit facts.")
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    kojirohellfire wrote: »
    Make him a grey alien and you've really got something spooky and intuitive.

    Kidnaps children in the middle of the night? Check.
    Looks short and childlike? Check.
    Based on fairy lore? CHECK!

    Peter Pan is ready to probe you at a theater near you.
    so that's what the stick was for....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    And I'm still not going to run about flailing my arms until we get something a little more reliable than a post in an online forum, which is the only place any of this has been "published". It's not exactly a peer-reviewed journal, is it?
    That forum thread has scientists, engineers and most importantly Mr. March himself discussing his results in a scientific manner.
    It may not have the official "peer-reviewed" stamp on it but in essence, that's what it is.
    Or, to be more precise, it's a peer review in progress.
    In the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, speaking ex cathedra as Sherlock Holmes, "It is a capital mistake to theorise in the absence of data. Insensibly, one begins to twist fact to fit theories, rather than theories to fit facts."
    But they have data and they're theorizing about the possible implications resulting from said data.
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  • nuwok1nuwok1 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    kojirohellfire wrote: »
    .....w-what?



    Actually you should read your article a bit closer. It doesn't even remotely say that it doesn't work. What it actually says is that the results are essentially inconclusive and more tests need to be done. The device apparently produces some kind of force, but they don't know what that is just yet.

    So pretty much the words of the day are "we're still working on it."

    Let me rephrase. It worked even when it was off - when it wasn't supposed to get a positive result.
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    nuwok1 wrote: »
    Let me rephrase. It worked even when it was off - when it wasn't supposed to get a positive result.
    It did NOT work without the Cavity.

    A lot of people are getting facts and falsely reported information mixed up.

    here's a good writeup of actual facts:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/34cq1b/the_facts_as_we_currently_know_them_about_the/
    Cannae Tests So Far

    The only independent (not conducted by the inventor, the inventor's company, or by labs hired by the inventor) tests of the Cannae Drive that I can verify have been done by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center.
    They performed three tests:
    1. The device as the inventor designed it.
    2. The device as the inventor designed it without the slotting that the inventor claimed was critical. (Called the "null test".)
    3. A control test that used the same energy, but without the cavity present in the design.
    The results of these tests were as follows:
    1. Approximately 25 micronewtons of thrust at 50 Watts.
    2. The same results as test #1, showing that at the very least, the slotting provided no benefit or detriment to the effect happening.
    3. No measurable thrust.
    For each of these tests they use a torsion pendulum which could measure thrust down to about 10 micronewtons or so. They also ran the test multiple times. In addition, they ran the test in two directions, making sure that the directional thrust changed with the direction of the device (to attempt to eliminate the possibility of noise or instrumentation error). The Cannae Drive passed these test, and the control test showed it was unlikely (although not impossible) to be a heating or air current effect.
    The confusion over the naming of the "null test" however led many people to think that NASA reported the same thrust in the control test. This was not the case. The fact that the null test showed only that the inventor's ideas for why thrust was being measured were incomplete or wrong, but it is certain that thrust was measured. That still does not eliminate other factors in measurement or the test setup that might have accounted for the measured thrust, although the control test does make the list smaller.
    The "null test" also was only performed on the Cannae Drive, and has no bearing on the EmDrive tests, as the EmDrive has no such features which might have be tested in this way, which has been another point of confusion among many people.


    EmDrive Tests

    The following independent tests have been performed for the EmDrive.
    1. A test at 2500 W of power during which a thrust of 750 millinewtons was measured by a Chinese team at the Chinese Northwestern Polytechnical University.
    2. A test at 50 W of power during which a thrust of 50 micronewtons was measured by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center at ~760 Torr of pressure. (Summer 2014)
    3. A test at 50 W of power during which a thrust of 50 micronewtons was measured by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center at ~5.0
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  • rekurzionrekurzion Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Even in failure we will have learned something.
  • quintarisquintaris Member Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Enh... scientific advancement is about trying stuff and recording the results. Explanations for what happens.... we'll get to that eventually.

    Science still can't explain Beiber, so...
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,596 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    nuwok1 wrote: »
    Also, mysteriousuniverse.org is a pseudoscience website. If you want science, don't read websites that talk about the paranormal or conspiracy theories.

    Conspiracy theories I can understand, but Paranormal?

    Never watched Ghost Hunters? They don't just go in like other groups who are basically "The absense of evidence is evidence" or "Its a Demonic". The TAPS team actually goes in to DEBUNK a haunting. Anything they can't explain is filed under unexplained, and unless they get evidence such as EVPs or even video evidence of something moving on its own or an apparition, they don't jump on the "Place is haunted" bandwagon. IMO TAPS is the most credable team out there that investigates the Paranormal. They were even invited by the MILITARY to investigate some places.

    Also... most of the so called "Orbs" that are caught on camera... easily explained as either dust or bugs 99% of the time. Orbs mean nothing.

    I don't buy the Psychic stuff. I want scientific evidence. And TAPS provides that for sure.
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    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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