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Uniting with the Borg Collective. What?

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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Curious, there are even more symbols on this one: http://i.imgur.com/7GyxizF.png
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Theyre notorious for going back on their word the moment the opportunity arises.

    Then let them. Until then if they see the need assist they may do so as well. :)
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The Cooperative looks like THAT, 4 clawed hands uniting together, so no.

    I recently saw the two-parter where Lore took over Hugh's Borg group (Descent?), and the logo they use is not the one you're showing here. It's the "regular" Borg logo.

    http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200303/tng-252-a-horde-of-borg-comes/320x240.jpg
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  • grylakgrylak Member Posts: 1,594 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    kirimuffin wrote: »
    Actually, the symbol first showed up in "Q, Who?" So yes, it is the Collective symbol. Hugh's faction is the one that used it upside-down.


    Huh. Never knew that. Though that symbol is a bit hard to make out. Learn something new every day.


    Guess it can stop bothering me now that everyone used that symbol upside down. Also.... nice piece of symbolism in Descent in that case.
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  • dmtdmt Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    But during the 2800 episodes Eraun states that the Dominion is sitting out the war.

    The Iconians even reveal that they're not approaching the Dominion until we're all dead.

    What has changed to have them join the alliance?
  • grylakgrylak Member Posts: 1,594 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Maybe they discovered the Iconians are spying on them? As seen in Sphere of Influence? And that annoyed them.
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  • dmtdmt Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Then we can't lose! Just throw every Jem'Hadar within arm's reach at the Iconians and watch them drown beneath the Dominion's legions!
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    dmt wrote: »
    But during the 2800 episodes Eraun states that the Dominion is sitting out the war.

    The Iconians even reveal that they're not approaching the Dominion until we're all dead.

    What has changed to have them join the alliance?

    Perhaps nothing? Perhaps we are just looking at propaganda and our governments want us to believe our cause is just and we have the backup of the entire Milky May at our disposal even though this is not the case?

    The posters as well as the general “war is upon us and our entire galaxy is at stake” thingy just shows that our STO governments are desperate and try to call upon every free soul to assist.

    Either they are not entirely truthful to us soldiers (which happened b4 in history) or they have some hidden negotiations going on which details remain hidden from us...yet. :)

    Borg, Dominion… whatever evil is out there we have worked with them together if greater evil threatens us as well as them with imminent destruction.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I recently saw the two-parter where Lore took over Hugh's Borg group (Descent?), and the logo they use is not the one you're showing here. It's the "regular" Borg logo.

    http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200303/tng-252-a-horde-of-borg-comes/320x240.jpg
    He;s talking about the logo the Cooperative uses within STO. It looks kinda like a 4-petaled flower with the Collective logo as the petals.
    Curious, there are even more symbols on this one: http://i.imgur.com/7GyxizF.png
    Hmm... the only ones that catch my attention are the Kobali and Xindi logos.
    Top(right to left): Federation, Vulcan, Romulan Republic, Reman, Nausicaan
    bottom: Klingon, Gorn, Orion, Andorian, Xindi, Cardassian, Kobali.

    Which fits the picture since each of the logos cooresponds to one or more ships in the picture.

    The curious part is the big Orion ship... It's a Warbarge, not the playable T5 ship.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I know we're getting desperate considering what happened in "Blood of the Ancients", but...
    this loading screen... Really?

    The Dominion, the Breen, the remains of the RSE, the Gorn Confederation (reference to ST Starfleet Command?), I can understand, but the Borg, really?
    Even after what happened with Voyager, Vega, and the rest, the Borg gets the honor of being in a "Unite" poster, instead of say.... the Undine, the Voth or the Tholians?
    We're asking for BIG trouble.

    And this is why... the Federation needs to be eliminated. It was their idea. Just like every other bad idea they've had.
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  • phantrosityphantrosity Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It all comes down to racism, really.

    The federation is more willing to ally themselves with humanoid species - even the borg collective - over nonhumanoids like the tholians.

    It's basically spitting on Roddenbury's legacy.
  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    variant37 wrote: »
    I can't view the screenshot...but are we sure it's the Collective? As opposed to the Borg Cooperative, Hugh's group?

    It's the Collective logo. The Cooperative has a different one.
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  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,164 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Devs... make a mission where we need to make a "costly" choice.... Side with the Borg or the Undine. :P
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  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    In TNG, in the episode Descent, the banners and floor of the Borg compound had the single clawed hand symbol. That's hard canon. ANYTHING released for STO is soft canon at best. So when it isn't trumping itself, hard canon trumps soft canon...

    That wasn't the Cooperative. That was simply Lore's Disconnected Borg army. The Cooperative was established in a Voyager episode.
    Og12TbC.jpg

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  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I can think of another reason not to side with the Borg besides the expected betrayal later. I don't want to support the Collective in assimilating iconian stuff...... no, I really don't. :o
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    No comment on canon implications, but if I remember right the Federation teamed up with The Borg during the Federation campaign in Star Trek Armada 2 to counter the Undine. And it happened again in Voyager for the same reason.

    Of course I believe both deals went sour as soon as the task was finished. So the problem isn't working with The Borg, it's stopping them from assimilating you afterwards.

    In regards to other suitable allies for this war. I can believe that Voth or Tholians wouldn't be interested, especially The Voth - they made no effort to get involved with the Delta Alliance.

    Undine would be possible. The last we saw of them Tuvok convinced the 'hive mind ship' to think for itself. It may occur to it in the meantime that they'd better get in on this war to protect fluidic space. They've got just as much reason as anyone else to fight The Iconians.
  • walshicuswalshicus Member Posts: 1,314 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I wish they'd stop showing Vulcan and Andorian logos separate from the Federation. They're members, not foreign!
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  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It all comes down to racism, really.

    The federation is more willing to ally themselves with humanoid species - even the borg collective - over nonhumanoids like the tholians.

    It's basically spitting on Roddenbury's legacy.

    Why does it have to be racism? The Tholians have pretty much made it clear that they want nothing to do with the Alliance at this point. And an alliance with the Collective has happened before, short-lived as it was.
    Og12TbC.jpg

    Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.

    I dare you to do better.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    walshicus wrote: »
    I wish they'd stop showing Vulcan and Andorian logos separate from the Federation. They're members, not foreign!
    So? It's also been doing that with the Orions, Nausicaans, and Gorn...
    valoreah wrote: »
    That one Borg terminal reminds me of this old Borg website.
    Hunh, cool. I'm pretty sure the general art style is something the Borg used in the tv shows. here's one.
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  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    In TNG, in the episode Descent, the banners and floor of the Borg compound had the single clawed hand symbol. That's hard canon. ANYTHING released for STO is soft canon at best. So when it isn't trumping itself, hard canon trumps soft canon...

    Whens the last time we saw that group using the actual Borg Collective symbol?


    Okay then. Lets stop trying to connect dots we all know have nothing to do with each other. The only Borg Faction in this game currently using that symbol is the actual Borg Collective.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It all comes down to racism, really.

    The federation is more willing to ally themselves with humanoid species - even the borg collective - over nonhumanoids like the tholians.

    It's basically spitting on Roddenbury's legacy.

    The Tholians have always been portrayed as extremely xenophobic isolationists. They most likely chose to not participate in the alliance, as opposed to being excluded.
  • seriousxenoseriousxeno Member Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The Collective isn't stupid. Of course they would agree to an alliance in order to survive. Odds are that right after the Iconians defeat, they will go back to business as usual.

    An idea I had for a while was to change the programming. Change the Borg's main directive (achieve perfection via assimilation of all viable life and technology) with something else. The Collective seems huge but its only one entity when you think about it. Data managed to hack a Cube in BOBW Part 2 and ordered it to regenerate all drones on board. I'm certain that, given enough time and effort, one could potentially change the very nature of the Borg... permanently.
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  • dragnockdragnock Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Its the Borgs Symbol. And the OP has a point. If theres one group I would not feel all too safe about having my back. Its the Borg. Theyre notorious for going back on their word the moment the opportunity arises.

    Thats why we put them on the front lines lol
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I know we're getting desperate considering what happened in "Blood of the Ancients", but...
    this loading screen... Really?

    The Dominion, the Breen, the remains of the RSE, the Gorn Confederation (reference to ST Starfleet Command?), I can understand, but the Borg, really?
    Even after what happened with Voyager, Vega, and the rest, the Borg gets the honor of being in a "Unite" poster, instead of say.... the Undine, the Voth or the Tholians?
    We're asking for BIG trouble.

    Ahem to quote voyager:

    Collective to jayneway: "Our survival is your survival, species 8472 must be stopped"

    Just change the undine to "iconians" and there you have the collectives motive.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Ahem to quote voyager:

    Collective to jayneway: "Our survival is your survival, species 8472 must be stopped"

    Just change the undine to "iconians" and there you have the collectives motive.

    That's forgetting the Borg were the ones who attacked the Undine first and were lucky to have gullible trigger-happy fools like Janeway to antagonize the Undine even more.

    "Our survival is your survival" really hides their true intentions: "if we get wiped out, we can't assimilate you" and really means "We're gonna take advantage of the fact you screwed up by making yourself look bad in the Undine's eyes and say you need to help us otherwise you too are doomed".
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  • demonicaestheticdemonicaesthetic Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I know we're getting desperate considering what happened in "Blood of the Ancients", but...
    this loading screen... Really?

    The Dominion, the Breen, the remains of the RSE, the Gorn Confederation (reference to ST Starfleet Command?), I can understand, but the Borg, really?
    Even after what happened with Voyager, Vega, and the rest, the Borg gets the honor of being in a "Unite" poster, instead of say.... the Undine, the Voth or the Tholians?
    We're asking for BIG trouble.

    Hey, they may be treacherous unprincipled b*****ds, but they are OUR treacherous unprincipled b*****ds, you can't assimilate worlds if they are destroyed, you can't assimilate people if you are dead and dust...

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend...
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  • demonicaestheticdemonicaesthetic Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    dragnock wrote: »
    Thats why we put them on the front lines lol

    They have a surfeit of cannon fodder...

    *cough*

    I meant to say tough fearless ground troops...

    Welcome! Brothers in arms! Iconian resistance will be futile!
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  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Not reading to see if it was mentioned, but I am pretty sure I did see the Undine in a Unite poster. Xenophobic as they are, I could still see at least a faction of them convinced to help. They have a damn good reason to have a grudge against the Iconians, of course--dragging them into a war on false pretenses just as the Undine did to the normal-space powers.

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