I deeply apologize for not having updated our communication on this matter, but this is working as intended as it is currently on Holodeck.
It was determined very late in our testing that keeping these items BoA instead of BoC represented a significant risk for our overall reward structure, and might encourage aberrant behavior among players (Level multiple DRs to 50 utilizing potential XP Loopholes/Exploits, just to pass off the Upgrade Kits). Because of this risk, we decided to change them to Bind-to-character-on-Pickup.
Again, we should have updated our communication on this when the change was made, and we apologize for the miscommunication. We'll see about getting the Q&A updated, and the linked Dev Post will be edited to include a link back to THIS post.
Sorry, but this revisionist history behavior you guys are on, is kinda getting out of hand. It's false advertisement, plain and simple. If you had been a serious company, with actual paying customers, you'd be liable to get your pants sued for all the false advertising that goes on around here. The blog clearly stated:
Q: Is there a reason to create more than one Delta Recruit?
A: Some of the character-specific rewards, which are granted to every Delta Recruit, can be used to benefit your Fleet. And a few of the rewards, such as the Delta Vanguard Upgrade Techs that are earned upon reaching Level 50, can be sent to other characters on your account once they are earned. It is up to each player to determine if that is sufficient reward for their efforts.
The blog has since been updated to read:
Q: Is there a reason to create more than one Delta Recruit?
A: Some of the character-specific rewards, which are granted to every Delta Recruit, can be used to benefit your Fleet. And a few of the rewards, such as the Energy Credits you receive for completing each Story Arc, can be transferred to other characters on your account using your Account Bank. It is up to each player to determine if that is sufficient reward for their efforts.
Blatantly lying to your customers again and again. You guys should learn to honor what is originally stated. If you can't fulfill what is stated, then it should never have been said in the first place. But you guys choose to engage in revisionist history, and continually get away with it.
Sorry, but this revisionist history behavior you guys are on, is kinda getting out of hand. It's false advertisement, plain and simple. If you had been a serious company, with actual paying customers, you'd be liable to get your pants sued for all the false advertising that goes on around here. The blog clearly stated:
The blog has since been updated to read:
Blatantly lying to your customers again and again. You guys should learn to honor what is originally stated. If you can't fulfill what is stated, then it should never have been said in the first place. But you guys choose to engage in revisionist history, and continually get away with it.
You do realise they had it as being subject to change? I think they learnt from the JHAS fiasco...
As with most of our announcements, please remember that all of the above reward details are subject to change at any time. We will do our best to communicate any changes that may occur between now and the conclusion of the Delta Recruit Event in a timely manner.
You do realise they had it as being subject to change? I think they learnt from the JHAS fiasco...
That assumes they learn anything at all. 5 years into STO's lifetime, and they still make the same TRIBBLE-poor cash-grabbing "mistakes" over and over.
If they've learnt anything over the past 5 years, it's how to best sucker their customers into believing the horse-manure that keeps getting shoveled down their throats.
We will do our best to communicate any changes that may occur between now and the conclusion of the Delta Recruit Event in a timely manner.
Timely manner you say? After nearly a week of Delta Recruitment event ongoing, and the blog having been posted prior to the events start. So I guess 1 week is what is considered "timely manner" in Crypticland?
That assumes they learn anything at all. 5 years into STO's lifetime, and they still make the same TRIBBLE-poor cash-grabbing "mistakes" over and over.
Cash grabbing? Really? You grabbing at straws perhaps, as you seem to be suggesting this is a regular occurrence... There have been 2 examples, the JHAS and this... This not even being that big an issue, as you're the only one kicking up a huge fuss...
If they've learnt anything over the past 5 years, it's how to best sucker their customers into believing the horse-manure that keeps getting shoveled down their throats.
Well, that is interesting... An account created in March 2015 with 13 posts, yet you speak as if you've been playing for 5 years, are you hiding or something, while you rant like this?
Timely manner you say? After nearly a week of Delta Recruitment event ongoing, and the blog having been posted prior to the events start. So I guess 1 week is what is considered "timely manner" in Crypticland?
Yep, they answered within the first week of the event... It was clarified within a couple days of the issue first coming to light, that would generally be considered timely to anyone with a modicum of patience and not simply looking for reasons to be offended...
Well, that is interesting... An account created in March 2015 with 13 posts, yet you speak as if you've been playing for 5 years, are you hiding or something, while you rant like this?
I don't hide from anything. It's called taking a break from the forums (and game), and after returning to the forums, being forced to choose a new name and finding the registration date had been reset. You probably don't even have a clue about the "Big forum reset of 2012"
I don't hide from anything. It's called taking a break from the forums (and game), and after returning to the forums, being forced to choose a new name and finding the registration date had been reset. You probably don't even have a clue about the "Big forum reset of 2012"
That was a significant break then, and upon your return, you have immediately dived right in, kicking off by sticking the boot in over a massively inflated issue... Good job...
You also conveniently ignored everything else I said... Good job there also... Simply trolling are we?
You also conveniently ignored everything else I said... Good job there also... Simply trolling are we?
I didn't ignore it. I just chose to respond defensively, to your accusatory and potentially flamable posting in regards to my membership status (specifically when it was started). Because quite honestly, what business is it of yours?
I didn't ignore it. I just chose to respond defensively, to your accusatory and potentially flamable posting in regards to my membership status (specifically when it was started). Because quite honestly, what business is it of yours?
It is as much my business as it is that of anyone who decides to make comments on a public forum...
You speak as if you have been a long-time player, and that this is normal behaviour from Cryptic (which, though they have their flaws, this does not happen all the time) yet you seemed to be a new forum member... I just found curious as it's not unheard of for people to create multiple accounts, to prevent their primary account being penalised, when they decide to unload on a developer, like you did...
Sorry, but I'm call BS on this... First up... It was clearly aimed at gaining new players and helping them bridge the gap with existing players... The Delta Recruits promo was not about alts for existing players, but existing players were able to benefit all the same...
The tech upgrades being the main driving force behind creating characters, in the vast majority of cases, I personally consider highly doubtful... That's alot of work for a tech upgrade that really isn't all that fantastic IMO...
The Delta Tech upgrades may indeed provide 110k research XP, but you will not receive an upgrade in quality using them meaning they are only really useful for items which are already Gold quality anyway, limiting their usefulness from my experience, as high level items (rep gear and the like) will have even less chance of being upgraded to UR, or Epic, before reaching Mk XIV and requiring the massive resource investment needed at that point...
It was an error in a blog which Cryptic have since come out and officially acknowledged was a mistake... They've owned the mistake when they could have just ignored it...
Call whatever you like, i dont care about quality and min-maxing, all i want is to be able to upgrade my consoles without having to divert boatloads of dilithium away from other projects, so while YOU might think these upgrades aren't that good to other players who don't have access to loads of stuff they are pretty important, the upgrades are the ONLY reason i bothered doing uneasy allies aswell, so yeah you are entitled to your opinion but dont automatically think that it applies to everyone
I deeply apologize for not having updated our communication on this matter, but this is working as intended as it is currently on Holodeck.
It was determined very late in our testing that keeping these items BoA instead of BoC represented a significant risk for our overall reward structure, and might encourage aberrant behavior among players (Level multiple DRs to 50 utilizing potential XP Loopholes/Exploits, just to pass off the Upgrade Kits). Because of this risk, we decided to change them to Bind-to-character-on-Pickup.
Again, we should have updated our communication on this when the change was made, and we apologize for the miscommunication. We'll see about getting the Q&A updated, and the linked Dev Post will be edited to include a link back to THIS post.
Changing the promised rewards during a running event is AGAIN (this isnt the first time) a nice way to tell the players that cryptic is not reliable.
No, actually the explanation given even tells us more... the developers consider every player a potential "exploiter/cheater".
Fact is however, that there are people that started to play Delta recruitment based on false information (you also could call it a "lie") so they can get hands on these upgrades in order to use them on their main alt.
Now that this is not possible, one important reason to play delta recruitment is gone.
The developers totally ignore the fact that a player needs to invest a specific time to reach level 50 on a delta alt.
But lets do a small calculation on how fast a player has to be in order to exploit something:
We get 2 delta upgrades with 110.000 TP each, right?
so 220.000 TP in total... without any quality upgrade chance
an ordinary superior upgrade has 12,800 TP.... so you would need 18 superior upgrades
assuming you play 4 adv. or elite STFs with your main per hour (clearly more is possible actually) you will have all required resources to produce the 18 superior upgrades after 4,5 hours of normal gameplay on your main.
Plus... you have a chance for a rarity upgrade.
The dilithium costs are pretty much non-existent considering that you earn just about that dil play playing adv. and elite PVEs.
So you devs really tell us here that the risk for exploits have been too high while the requirement for these delta upgrades is to reach lvl50 on a delta alt?
I doubt that any Delta alt is going to lvl 50 in 4.5 hours.
The delta vanguard upgrades are rubbish junk.
Every average player could earn higher upgrade rewards in a much shorter amount of time by sticking to their main chars.
This entire limitation is absolutly pathetic and once more damages the trust between players and developers.
Cash grabbing? Really? You grabbing at straws perhaps, as you seem to be suggesting this is a regular occurrence... There have been 2 examples, the JHAS and this... This not even being that big an issue, as you're the only one kicking up a huge fuss...
Well, that is interesting... An account created in March 2015 with 13 posts, yet you speak as if you've been playing for 5 years, are you hiding or something, while you rant like this?
If you can only remember 2 then I question where the heck you have been hiding all this time
I deeply apologize for not having updated our communication on this matter, but this is working as intended as it is currently on Holodeck.
It was determined very late in our testing that keeping these items BoA instead of BoC represented a significant risk for our overall reward structure, and might encourage aberrant behavior among players (Level multiple DRs to 50 utilizing potential XP Loopholes/Exploits, just to pass off the Upgrade Kits). Because of this risk, we decided to change them to Bind-to-character-on-Pickup.
Again, we should have updated our communication on this when the change was made, and we apologize for the miscommunication. We'll see about getting the Q&A updated, and the linked Dev Post will be edited to include a link back to THIS post.
A better fix would have been to make them a once per account thing, but still BoA. It doesn't affect me, I've decided I'm not gonna bother getting anything over mk xii unless i find it cheap on the exchange, and plan on keeping my delta as a regular alt. However, many people are leveling a Delta just for the account rewards, and I'd imagine this will come as a big kick in the pants for them.
With Cryptic's other decisions going a long way towards mending their image, this is just a major step backwards.
Changing the promised rewards during a running event is AGAIN (this isnt the first time) a nice way to tell the players that cryptic is not reliable.
No, actually the explanation given even tells us more... the developers consider every player a potential "exploiter/cheater".
Fact is however, that there are people that started to play Delta recruitment based on false information (you also could call it a "lie") so they can get hands on these upgrades in order to use them on their main alt.
Now that this is not possible, one important reason to play delta recruitment is gone.
The developers totally ignore the fact that a player needs to invest a specific time to reach level 50 on a delta alt.
But lets do a small calculation on how fast a player has to be in order to exploit something:
We get 2 delta upgrades with 110.000 TP each, right?
so 220.000 TP in total... without any quality upgrade chance
an ordinary superior upgrade has 12,800 TP.... so you would need 18 superior upgrades
assuming you play 4 adv. or elite STFs with your main per hour (clearly more is possible actually) you will have all required resources to produce the 18 superior upgrades after 4,5 hours of normal gameplay on your main.
Plus... you have a chance for a rarity upgrade.
The dilithium costs are pretty much non-existent considering that you earn just about that dil play playing adv. and elite PVEs.
So you devs really tell us here that the risk for exploits have been too high while the requirement for these delta upgrades is to reach lvl50 on a delta alt?
I doubt that any Delta alt is going to lvl 50 in 4.5 hours.
The delta vanguard upgrades are rubbish junk.
Every average player could earn higher upgrade rewards in a much shorter amount of time by sticking to their main chars.
This entire limitation is absolutly pathetic and once more damages the trust between players and developers.
You do realise playing STO is like hire purchase Yeh. .
We rent our toons from them thus meaning they can make what ever changes when ever they like with just reason and I wouldn't say making something bound to toon isn't a ooh my god thing.
A better fix would have been to make them a once per account thing, but still BoA. It doesn't affect me, I've decided I'm not gonna bother getting anything over mk xii unless i find it cheap on the exchange, and plan on keeping my delta as a regular alt. However, many people are leveling a Delta just for the account rewards, and I'd imagine this will come as a big kick in the pants for them.
With Cryptic's other decisions going a long way towards mending their image, this is just a major step backwards.
Better for the average player. Another option would be that the first set unlocked is BoA, but all following unlocks are BoC ... infact that would probably be perfect, as it modtly matches what was advertised for vets, still gives all deltas access to upgrades, and prevents any potential abuse.
Just to be clear though, I don't really care about this particular issue per say, as I said I'm completely ignoring the upgrade mechanic on all toons. What I DO care about is the game itself, and alienating veterans who have already been alienated multiple times is bad for the game.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I created a DR alt to play the game, not to farm a tech upgrade.
For BoA upgrades, Cryptic gave us piles of Omega Tech upgrades (as many as we could stand to grind) and the 3 upgrades from Uneasy Allies. Not giving me one more on top of that is a non-issue for me.
People in the forums have claimed they leveled a DR to 50 "in a day" so the prospect of exploiting the DR reward appears to be real.
I dont think using the DVT makes an unbound item bound.
so just get your VR Mk 2 item and upgrade it till Epic. if the Mk isnt 14, then transfer to a toon with the DVT and apply. upgrade till Mk 14 or as high as you can get with those points. Trade back to toon who will use item.
You do realise playing STO is like hire purchase Yeh. .
We rent our toons from them thus meaning they can make what ever changes when ever they like with just reason and I wouldn't say making something bound to toon isn't a ooh my god thing.
no its just another time the people we "rent the stuff from" were lying to us
I wonder how you will react when they decide to tell you that your gold membership or your lifetime subscriptions is being limited to 10 dil per year
point is... you dont treat customers in such a respectless way
It's one thing to be upset about changes. Even abrupt ones. This game will perpetually be evolving and expanding, and with that an ebb and flow of changes.
It's another point entirely to lash out with a dev who comes in to the forum thread to speak directly with everyone, explain the situation, and apologize profusely. Borticus came into the thread, behest of nobody but his own accord and good will. He's a really awesome dude.
One of my biggest wants is to help foster a good communication relationship between the devs and ya'll. That goes both ways. Borticus is trying. Some of you are too.
But as things stand, this thread has gotten far out of hand.
Comments
Sorry, but this revisionist history behavior you guys are on, is kinda getting out of hand. It's false advertisement, plain and simple. If you had been a serious company, with actual paying customers, you'd be liable to get your pants sued for all the false advertising that goes on around here. The blog clearly stated:
The blog has since been updated to read:
Blatantly lying to your customers again and again. You guys should learn to honor what is originally stated. If you can't fulfill what is stated, then it should never have been said in the first place. But you guys choose to engage in revisionist history, and continually get away with it.
You do realise they had it as being subject to change? I think they learnt from the JHAS fiasco...
That assumes they learn anything at all. 5 years into STO's lifetime, and they still make the same TRIBBLE-poor cash-grabbing "mistakes" over and over.
If they've learnt anything over the past 5 years, it's how to best sucker their customers into believing the horse-manure that keeps getting shoveled down their throats.
Timely manner you say? After nearly a week of Delta Recruitment event ongoing, and the blog having been posted prior to the events start. So I guess 1 week is what is considered "timely manner" in Crypticland?
Cash grabbing? Really? You grabbing at straws perhaps, as you seem to be suggesting this is a regular occurrence... There have been 2 examples, the JHAS and this... This not even being that big an issue, as you're the only one kicking up a huge fuss...
Well, that is interesting... An account created in March 2015 with 13 posts, yet you speak as if you've been playing for 5 years, are you hiding or something, while you rant like this?
Yep, they answered within the first week of the event... It was clarified within a couple days of the issue first coming to light, that would generally be considered timely to anyone with a modicum of patience and not simply looking for reasons to be offended...
I don't hide from anything. It's called taking a break from the forums (and game), and after returning to the forums, being forced to choose a new name and finding the registration date had been reset. You probably don't even have a clue about the "Big forum reset of 2012"
That was a significant break then, and upon your return, you have immediately dived right in, kicking off by sticking the boot in over a massively inflated issue... Good job...
You also conveniently ignored everything else I said... Good job there also... Simply trolling are we?
I didn't ignore it. I just chose to respond defensively, to your accusatory and potentially flamable posting in regards to my membership status (specifically when it was started). Because quite honestly, what business is it of yours?
It is as much my business as it is that of anyone who decides to make comments on a public forum...
You speak as if you have been a long-time player, and that this is normal behaviour from Cryptic (which, though they have their flaws, this does not happen all the time) yet you seemed to be a new forum member... I just found curious as it's not unheard of for people to create multiple accounts, to prevent their primary account being penalised, when they decide to unload on a developer, like you did...
Call whatever you like, i dont care about quality and min-maxing, all i want is to be able to upgrade my consoles without having to divert boatloads of dilithium away from other projects, so while YOU might think these upgrades aren't that good to other players who don't have access to loads of stuff they are pretty important, the upgrades are the ONLY reason i bothered doing uneasy allies aswell, so yeah you are entitled to your opinion but dont automatically think that it applies to everyone
Changing the promised rewards during a running event is AGAIN (this isnt the first time) a nice way to tell the players that cryptic is not reliable.
No, actually the explanation given even tells us more... the developers consider every player a potential "exploiter/cheater".
Fact is however, that there are people that started to play Delta recruitment based on false information (you also could call it a "lie") so they can get hands on these upgrades in order to use them on their main alt.
Now that this is not possible, one important reason to play delta recruitment is gone.
The developers totally ignore the fact that a player needs to invest a specific time to reach level 50 on a delta alt.
But lets do a small calculation on how fast a player has to be in order to exploit something:
We get 2 delta upgrades with 110.000 TP each, right?
so 220.000 TP in total... without any quality upgrade chance
an ordinary superior upgrade has 12,800 TP.... so you would need 18 superior upgrades
assuming you play 4 adv. or elite STFs with your main per hour (clearly more is possible actually) you will have all required resources to produce the 18 superior upgrades after 4,5 hours of normal gameplay on your main.
Plus... you have a chance for a rarity upgrade.
The dilithium costs are pretty much non-existent considering that you earn just about that dil play playing adv. and elite PVEs.
So you devs really tell us here that the risk for exploits have been too high while the requirement for these delta upgrades is to reach lvl50 on a delta alt?
I doubt that any Delta alt is going to lvl 50 in 4.5 hours.
The delta vanguard upgrades are rubbish junk.
Every average player could earn higher upgrade rewards in a much shorter amount of time by sticking to their main chars.
This entire limitation is absolutly pathetic and once more damages the trust between players and developers.
A better fix would have been to make them a once per account thing, but still BoA. It doesn't affect me, I've decided I'm not gonna bother getting anything over mk xii unless i find it cheap on the exchange, and plan on keeping my delta as a regular alt. However, many people are leveling a Delta just for the account rewards, and I'd imagine this will come as a big kick in the pants for them.
With Cryptic's other decisions going a long way towards mending their image, this is just a major step backwards.
Better for who?
I get the feeling Bort drew the short straw and will now be 'the bad news scapegoat' for the forseeable future..
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You do realise playing STO is like hire purchase Yeh. .
We rent our toons from them thus meaning they can make what ever changes when ever they like with just reason and I wouldn't say making something bound to toon isn't a ooh my god thing.
Better for the average player. Another option would be that the first set unlocked is BoA, but all following unlocks are BoC ... infact that would probably be perfect, as it modtly matches what was advertised for vets, still gives all deltas access to upgrades, and prevents any potential abuse.
Just to be clear though, I don't really care about this particular issue per say, as I said I'm completely ignoring the upgrade mechanic on all toons. What I DO care about is the game itself, and alienating veterans who have already been alienated multiple times is bad for the game.
Or, I had the professionalism to own up to a decision I had no small part in making.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Nah, something isn't right, there...
:rolleyes:
I created a DR alt to play the game, not to farm a tech upgrade.
For BoA upgrades, Cryptic gave us piles of Omega Tech upgrades (as many as we could stand to grind) and the 3 upgrades from Uneasy Allies. Not giving me one more on top of that is a non-issue for me.
People in the forums have claimed they leveled a DR to 50 "in a day" so the prospect of exploiting the DR reward appears to be real.
so just get your VR Mk 2 item and upgrade it till Epic. if the Mk isnt 14, then transfer to a toon with the DVT and apply. upgrade till Mk 14 or as high as you can get with those points. Trade back to toon who will use item.
no its just another time the people we "rent the stuff from" were lying to us
I wonder how you will react when they decide to tell you that your gold membership or your lifetime subscriptions is being limited to 10 dil per year
point is... you dont treat customers in such a respectless way
It's one thing to be upset about changes. Even abrupt ones. This game will perpetually be evolving and expanding, and with that an ebb and flow of changes.
It's another point entirely to lash out with a dev who comes in to the forum thread to speak directly with everyone, explain the situation, and apologize profusely. Borticus came into the thread, behest of nobody but his own accord and good will. He's a really awesome dude.
One of my biggest wants is to help foster a good communication relationship between the devs and ya'll. That goes both ways. Borticus is trying. Some of you are too.
But as things stand, this thread has gotten far out of hand.
Closed.