I really like the idea of Star Trek being set in a less than ideal setting. We've never seen a Federation in the underdog position before. A series set during the collapse of the Federation would be awesome.
Imagine a Federation very close to collapse. Hope is luxury most cannot afford. But then there are rumors. Someone brought much needed supplies to Vulcan....in a starship. Where did someone get a starship? Starfleet was thought lost. Orion Pirates thwarted near Tellar Prime??? Thwarted by a starship called Enterprise. Then rumor turns to reality. The Enterprise is there. Has hope blossomed again?
This idea is sparking my imagination. With this premise you're not telling the same old stories of transporter duplicates or the holodeck going crazy and now trying to take over the ship. We have a crew and ship that have become symbols of hope. They have a multi purpose mission: Defend the Federation Remnant. Find out what happened. Find out the condition of the other galactic powers. Find other remnants of Star fleet.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I tend to think the standards are written on a species basis: what is health for X species and can someone either naturally or through corrective treatment or assistive technology, meet said standard? Starfleet, unlike IRL, does not seem to be very picky about how conformance is accomplished so long as it is by some means.
The reason I assume "by species" is that that prevents a human from being judged by, say, Vulcan standards. Melora is likely judged by a specific Elaysian standard of health, and in my own stories, Teeglar, Thraz, and Alyosha each meet standards written for their species. (For Alyosha since his species was unknown at time of admission, this was accomplished by submitting documentation showing that no evidence could be found of anything compromising observed normal functioning of his body.) Because of the diversity of standards versus a single one, there are probably occasions when people of one species are admitted successfully under the standard precedent of another species, as their capabilities are regarded as equivalent. For all we know, LaForge came in under an Aenar standard, since technology gave him an equivalent ability to serve as someone like Thraz.
Neurological things appear to be the Federation's weakest area in terms of medical technology, but I'd say we can't count anything out until we get a qualified canon Starfleet medical opinion (if that makes any sense).
That's a reasonable idea.
I prefer to think of it as "Starfleet has next to no physical requirements for positions other than infantry or shipboard security", but given that canon says nothing on the matter that's an entirely reasonable point of view.
Also, there is the important question "Would dwarfs still exist"? Not likely, as we see in several episodes, the UFP utilizes a form of Genetic Screening to prevent any complications during pregnancy. This would prevent any of the abnormalities we see today. (I don't think they ever explain how Geordi was born blind, or why he's the only one in all of the Federation.)
This one is simple to answer - the Federation might not have been capable of that level of genetic screening at the time of Geordi's brith. There's also the issue that a large number of Federation citizens might object to "designer babies". That is, the genetic screening can be done if there's any reason to think there might be serious health risks to mother or child. A dwarf does not necessarily face either of these, nor would a blind man - and considering that the Federation bias against genetic engineering is strong enough that, in the books, they were willing to allow one of their founding members, the Andorians, to die out rather than use genetic engineering to save themselves, such that the Andorians had to actually leave the Federation to survive (that is, leave so that they no longer have to care about Federation law) I can see how this attitude might be common.
Military's do not care about Political Correctness or equality, it's why the military gets pissed off every time politicians try to arbitrarily change the fitness requirements in order to please a voting base. They care about having a capable and effective fighting force capable of accomplishing all of its duties on a moments notice.
I really like the idea of Star Trek being set in a less than ideal setting. We've never seen a Federation in the underdog position before. A series set during the collapse of the Federation would be awesome.
Imagine a Federation very close to collapse. Hope is luxury most cannot afford. But then there are rumors. Someone brought much needed supplies to Vulcan....in a starship. Where did someone get a starship? Starfleet was thought lost. Orion Pirates thwarted near Tellar Prime??? Thwarted by a starship called Enterprise. Then rumor turns to reality. The Enterprise is there. Has hope blossomed again?
This idea is sparking my imagination. With this premise you're not telling the same old stories of transporter duplicates or the holodeck going crazy and now trying to take over the ship. We have a crew and ship that have become symbols of hope. They have a multi purpose mission: Defend the Federation Remnant. Find out what happened. Find out the condition of the other galactic powers. Find other remnants of Star fleet.
i could see something like this being focused on a group or crew forming over time, different ships and backgrounds, some kind of interplay or historical links but maybe in search of the enterprise, rather than about the enterprise, having the enterprise as an ideal, or a standard. maybe the old enterprise is never found, maybe it was never meant to be found, it was the crew that made the ship after all, and the crew and that ship that really kindled the whole federation. kind of like a Post Apocalyptic, pre enterprise.. inspired by the old enterprise, and her crews thing.
that would also allow the story to flow over greater distances and cover far more ground than the actions of a single vehicle, although things will start to converge over time as these individuals come together.. so much scope lol and there in lies a part of the problem, how much can you reasonably squeeze in without it being too thin around the edges and loosing cohesion?
This one is simple to answer - the Federation might not have been capable of that level of genetic screening at the time of Geordi's brith. There's also the issue that a large number of Federation citizens might object to "designer babies". That is, the genetic screening can be done if there's any reason to think there might be serious health risks to mother or child. A dwarf does not necessarily face either of these, nor would a blind man - and considering that the Federation bias against genetic engineering is strong enough that, in the books, they were willing to allow one of their founding members, the Andorians, to die out rather than use genetic engineering to save themselves, such that the Andorians had to actually leave the Federation to survive (that is, leave so that they no longer have to care about Federation law) I can see how this attitude might be common.
Quite right, too.
genetic screening is all well and good, but im guessing those facilities wont be available at every colony out there.. there will always be room for things to occur.. o natural like
Into sciences, it's worth noting, not command. And Starfleet has allowed in others that no real-world military would - Barclay, for example, would never pass real-world mental health examinations to join the military (at least not going off of what he's like when we first met him), never mind reach the rank of lieutenant jr. grade. Palzar also, given her age, would have joined Starfleet Academy during a period of relative peace - i.e., during Season 2 or earlier of TNG, before the Borg showed up (or at least before they were widely known about) and started Borging things up.
(She's an ensign in 2370 and had previously been stationed on another ship. Assuming that she was on that ship for one year and assuming the Academy is a four-year course puts her joining Starfleet in 2365, only one year after the Farpoint mission in TNG)
Starfleet is not solely a military organization and, in fact by Picard's time is pretty obviously fairly demilitarized, given that they have ships flying around with notable civilian populations including children aboard. Lookin' at you,D.
Whatever physical examinations Melora somehow passed when joining Starfleet, I severely hope their standards had changed by the time the Borg started Borging things, the Dominion started Dominioning things, the Klingons got back to being Klingons, etc.
(But really, this is Starfleet's own fault for apparently being a relatively loose joint military-civilian organization)
This. For a real-life comparison, NPR has been following a US Marine Corps infantry training company, the first-ever to include women now that they're allowed in active combat. A LOT of the female infantry candidates have dropped out because of physical issues.
Another example: Iraq and Afghanistan vets with missing limbs are now getting to go back on active duty because of improved prosthetics, where less than two decades ago their injuries would have meant medical discharge. But they're NOT serving in combat occupations.
Your comparison of Melora Pazlar is a similar situation. She's a science officer, not a combat specialty. It's not discrimination to not allow somebody to do a job they are physically incapable of performing; in fact it's negligent to let them TRY because it's bad for them AND the rest of the organization.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
genetic screening is all well and good, but im guessing those facilities wont be available at every colony out there.. there will always be room for things to occur.. o natural like
I would also point out that not all congenital abnormalities are genetic in origin. Many are...not all. At least in the 21st century, that is the case.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
i could see something like this being focused on a group or crew forming over time, different ships and backgrounds, some kind of interplay or historical links but maybe in search of the enterprise, rather than about the enterprise, having the enterprise as an ideal, or a standard. maybe the old enterprise is never found, maybe it was never meant to be found, it was the crew that made the ship after all, and the crew and that ship that really kindled the whole federation. kind of like a Post Apocalyptic, pre enterprise.. inspired by the old enterprise, and her crews thing.
and Idea I was thinking about...piggy backing on the already awesome ideas people put forth in this thread is...that maybe someone found the Star Fleet Mothball fleet. In the US Navy ships aren't just destroyed when they are decommissioned. They go to a moth ball fleet and are maintained in case of a war they can call up more ships as needed. I imagine Star Fleet probably does something similar.
So lets say our lead character finds the mothball fleet and the only ship they can get running is the NX Enterprise. I chose this ship because it had a crew of 85 and could probably operate with half that number...anything else...other than a Defiant is just too big. So maybe thee find the museum ship and get it working...and the museum ship is that first Enterprise.
We have the person who found the ship...they will be the captain and they will want to be a beacon of hope. However they don't know the first thing about starships so the Executive officer is a former Star Fleet officer...he's or she been through the wringer and came through changed. While the captain wants to be a beacon of hope the XO wants to take the news ship and make whomever did this to them pay. He's quick to pull the trigger and this causes problems between CO and XO.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Problem with using the NX-01 is that, at least insofar as the books are concerned, it was irrepairably damaged at the end of the Earth-Romulan War and retired because of it. It became a part of the Smithsonian's orbital annex - it's a museum, its warp drive removed and replaced with a fake, disarmed, etc.
You could, however, use an old Miranda-class ship. Khan ran that with a crew of, what, 17 at most?
I would also point out that not all congenital abnormalities are genetic in origin. Many are...not all. At least in the 21st century, that is the case.
And some are sometimes congential, and other times not. Autism, for instance, can be caused by any of a number of genetic quirks - or by a de novo mutation, one not found in the parent generation. (In this way, it's a little similar to dwarfism - the word describes the end effect, rather than any specific cause, as opposed to Down's syndrome, which in all cases is caused by trisomy 21, a third copy of the 21st gene.)
I suppose the reason we haven't seen a dwarf Human in charge of a starship yet is because we haven't seen that many starship commanders on screen, and the number of people with dwarfism is small (if you'll pardon the expression). We just haven't run across the two or three ships in the entire fleet with dwarf captains.
You can use this same reasoning for any species/race/gender.
As I recall, the only place I've seen a Tellarite starship commander was in my set of captains. Doesn't mean Tellarites are excluded from command, just that Starfleet is so human-dominated that we haven't seen a Tellarite captain yet.
We're still ignoring that Starfleet is a Military Organization and as such has physical requirements as any other. Some species may have species-specific requirements insofar as they can make up for it in other unique-to-their-species ways, but this may also be why Starfleet is so human dominated; Not all species are fit for or want to perform combat/war and pass that duty on to other races in Starfleet like Humans and Andorians.
There may be very specific exceptions in cases where recruitment is low and very specific non-combat positions need filling, but these would likely be postings on science ships and ships that will never see combat, and would never be deployed on a ship or ground posting that would see combat.
Even barring that; with a much larger population, multiple species, and the huge advances in medical technology that, if not outright eliminated have lessened cases of dwarfism, that the odds of seeing a dwarf in starfleet, let alone as captain, are so infinitesimally small as to be irrelevant to discussion.
You're assuming that dwarfism is some kind of disease that needs to be cured?
Small stature is not a problem to my mind.
Any issues that may happen to come *with* it, ranging from serious joint/connective tissue dysfunction, excess fluid on the brain, or severe stroke potential (potential complications of diastrophic, achondroplasic, and primordial types of dwarfism respectively), however, would probably constitute treatable conditions just as individuals seek treatment for them now. Though how said treatment occurs I have no idea what would be by the 25th century.
Whether or not such complications exist is entirely an individual matter. Some people don't have any at all, and I would be royally screwed in any sports competition or fight. (Though not a human example of a person with little person stature, the way I've imagined Captain Teeglar, he'd likely have me screaming to make the beat down stop in seconds. A little person in good physical condition could doubtless accomplish the same IRL though I can't say I have actually competed to find that out.) Others have severe and life-threatening complications. The genetic and other causes are so diverse that I know well enough to know I can't make blanket statements.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I remember. I liked Andromeda (first two years anyway), but Andromeda still came across as something of a sunny disposition. I'd like to see the Federation remnants without that sunny forecast, to struggle in the crucible a good long while not only to survive physically, but as a political and philosophical entity. What is that philosophy worth if never put to a real test? We actually saw cracks in it during DS9's Dominion War. (Remember, for example, Quark's observation to Nog about humans?) What may come from the ashes here is a reforged philosophy, possibly somewhat different than that which Kirk and Picard defended, but stronger.
EDIT:
Hmm, wow. It doesn't go far enough, but is a lot more than I ever thought I'd see. I'd have watched it. (The ship is, um, interesting, but I'd love to have the uniforms in-game)
A fusion of Andromeda and the reimagined BSG?
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Melora was the only one we know of from canon. It's reasonable to assume there were others as IIRC there was no mention of Melora's physical limitations being "unique".
Thank you for making my point for me. In fact the episode states that Melora is the first Elaysian to ever enter the service precisely BECAUSE they're functionally immobilized in standard gravity. Even Melora couldn't move without a powered exoskeleton, one so crude she had trouble making it through doors (one scene has her fall over and have to be rescued).
Barring Bashir's gene therapy (which she rejected) or a much more reliable prosthesis, Melora might be allowed to command a research unit but she'd never be given a combatant ship because she'd be physically useless in any number of situations.
There's no reason a capable dwarf couldn't command a starship.
I never said one couldn't. I'm saying that it would be difficult to find one who could pass PT (for the reasons gulberat mentioned, among others). I recall Tuvok doing PT with the Maquis members in VULCAN gravity, no allowances for species, which gives you some idea of what Starfleet considers appropriate physical fitness aboard combatant ships.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Just to be clear, I don't want to say exactly who could and couldn't pass PT in Starfleet, but I do not consider it a guarantee.
As an example of an individual with a confirmed genetic disorder in service, I have a Pakled tactician on the Macet who has been controlling his disorder well with medication since early childhood. (For reasons too complicated to go here, genetic manipulation even for a cure was complete anathema to his people whereas a Fed citizen might have taken it.) However, it is clearly established that the reason he is pursuing advanced degrees so aggressively is that he knows that if his condition deteriorates and he is no longer able to meet his species' established physical criteria, he will be grounded, and he intends to be ready to either teach in Starfleet or be the equivalent of a Department of Defense employee or a civilian tactical/strategic consultant. He is currently doing a master's degree and most likely by the time this becomes a concern he will at least be underway with his doctorate, if not already BE a Ph D.
But until his genetic disorder catches up with him and the current method of treatment no longer works effectively enough to prevent any symptoms, Starfleet has no problem with him remaining in service since right now, he is not manifesting any ill effects.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Warwick Davis could hold a phaser and I'm pretty sure he could to the Shatner drop kick too.
Yeah, in a Starfleet that accepts Humans and Vulcans equally...and accepts Tellarites, most if not all of whom are very short by Human standards, and has some Klingons, who are incredibly durable--the hiring standards for physical fitness are probably near-zero.
Yeah, in a Starfleet that accepts Humans and Vulcans equally...and accepts Tellarites, most if not all of whom are very short by Human standards, and has some Klingons, who are incredibly durable--the hiring standards for physical fitness are probably near-zero.
Not really. Tellarites, humans, Andorians, Bajorans, and most of the other species in the Federation all have homeworlds at or around 1 gravity, so there isn't going to be much of a strength difference between them on average. Dramatically stronger species (Vulcanoids and Klingons) or dramatically weaker species (Elaysians) are very much outliers. So Starfleet can probably pretty well afford to use humans as the baseline, and training them to something resembling Vulcan baseline wouldn't be that hard with a 24th century understanding of physiology and nutrition. I note non-Vulcan Starfleet personnel having a distinct lack of difficulty dealing with Vulcan's 1.5 gravities in the TOS movies.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think what humans have the most trouble with on Vulcan until they acclimate is breathing. The increased gravity and heat take a greater toll when you are not breathing properly. That's why they are given tri-ox for respiratory support.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
a Post Apocalyptic Trek.. wow, that really does sound awesome, it may be the only thing left that will really work. everything else has pretty much been done and redone to death.. it is getting unrealistically to the point of galactic peace and harmony, well aside from the iconians. dont they say that its the journey that is important, currently how much travel do we have left? going all Post Apocalyptic would require a redrawing of maps and boundries, an initial contraction and consolidating of societies and species, working towards a point of being able to reach out, finding out how our neighbours are.. if they are! searching for any isolated remnants of our repsective associations. trying to recreate those associations, but instead creating totally new associations that are dependant on need and neccessity over canon. yup i could get behind that, while that may not look totally trek, i think it would definately feel more trek than what we have currently.
I think you've connected to what I was trying (poorly) to express. :cool:
and Idea I was thinking about...piggy backing on the already awesome ideas people put forth in this thread is...that maybe someone found the Star Fleet Mothball fleet.
That's really an intriguing thought. If not the NX-01, likely something else noteworthy.
I really like the idea of Star Trek being set in a less than ideal setting. We've never seen a Federation in the underdog position before. A series set during the collapse of the Federation would be awesome.
Imagine a Federation very close to collapse. Hope is luxury most cannot afford. But then there are rumors. Someone brought much needed supplies to Vulcan....in a starship. Where did someone get a starship? Starfleet was thought lost. Orion Pirates thwarted near Tellar Prime??? Thwarted by a starship called Enterprise. Then rumor turns to reality. The Enterprise is there. Has hope blossomed again?
i could see something like this being focused on a group or crew forming over time, different ships and backgrounds, some kind of interplay or historical links but maybe in search of the enterprise, rather than about the enterprise, having the enterprise as an ideal, or a standard. maybe the old enterprise is never found, maybe it was never meant to be found, it was the crew that made the ship after all, and the crew and that ship that really kindled the whole federation. kind of like a Post Apocalyptic, pre enterprise.. inspired by the old enterprise, and her crews thing.
that would also allow the story to flow over greater distances and cover far more ground than the actions of a single vehicle, although things will start to converge over time as these individuals come together.. so much scope lol and there in lies a part of the problem, how much can you reasonably squeeze in without it being too thin around the edges and loosing cohesion?
I like the ideas you present. Right off the bat, I'm not sure how the scope of the thing would be handled, unless initially, a large portion of the first season is done as an anthology of stories and only later do some of them sort out to show an ongoing cast. A very different concept than what TV does, so..risky.
I too have been thinking on the suggestion in my OP. The scenario developing in my mind is an invasion on a quadrant scale. Think locust-like: incredibly huge swarm of enemy entering from beyond the galaxy (possibly extra-dimensional or parallel universe), devastating all in its path, taking whatever they want, and (very important) moving on. The tale is told from the viewpoint of a ship returning from deep exploration which runs smack into the middle of the rear guard of the swarm, taking huge damage and losses but managing to survive. They limp for the next couple of weeks, understaffed, and held together with "string & chewing gum". Silence on interstellar chatter (the swarm has destroyed subspace relays). Approaching the first known inhabited planets they find phenomenal devastation and the pattern repeats wherever they go. The crew finds the graveyard of a great space battle, and among the wreckage they find a ship of the same model as their own. Carbon scoring and damage block the view of most of the name but "ENT...E" are visible. The captain orders his crew to use all they find on the hulk of the ship to rebuild their own. The ship's dedication plaque is found and in a moment of inspiration, the captain decides that with a large portion of his rebuilt ship being part of the other, a "spirit" of sorts has been transferred. He will re-christen his ship the Enterprise, knowing the name is a legend and will bring hope to all they help. In ceremony, he hangs the dedication plaque, and strikes out to begin helping rebuild the Federation. Along the way, he'll likely find survivors who are retired Starfleet personnel or even civilians who are good at sciences and engineering to restaff his ship. But it is one ship and the effects of such a huge disaster are just beginning to be understood.
I wouldn't mind an African woman, myself. Maybe an ethnic Masai?
Or someone of an Arab ethnicity...maybe an Inuit?
Anything but ANOTHER straight white male. Please.
I was hoping for a self-depricating, Statist, Bisexual, Latino, and Janist myself. Really though, if the actor, character concept and script is good a persons sex, race and sexual orientation shouldn't even get noticed. But I do acknowledge that some people put a lot of weight in those things. Hey lets have the Captain be morbidly obese too!
Thank you for making my point for me. In fact the episode states that Melora is the first Elaysian to ever enter the service precisely BECAUSE they're functionally immobilized in standard gravity. Even Melora couldn't move without a powered exoskeleton, one so crude she had trouble making it through doors (one scene has her fall over and have to be rescued).
Barring Bashir's gene therapy (which she rejected) or a much more reliable prosthesis, Melora might be allowed to command a research unit but she'd never be given a combatant ship because she'd be physically useless in any number of situations.
I never said one couldn't. I'm saying that it would be difficult to find one who could pass PT (for the reasons gulberat mentioned, among others). I recall Tuvok doing PT with the Maquis members in VULCAN gravity, no allowances for species, which gives you some idea of what Starfleet considers appropriate physical fitness aboard combatant ships.
Peter Dinklage seems to vet around just fine, and hes a damned good actor. Be interesting to have him a the main on a series.
Comments
Imagine a Federation very close to collapse. Hope is luxury most cannot afford. But then there are rumors. Someone brought much needed supplies to Vulcan....in a starship. Where did someone get a starship? Starfleet was thought lost. Orion Pirates thwarted near Tellar Prime??? Thwarted by a starship called Enterprise. Then rumor turns to reality. The Enterprise is there. Has hope blossomed again?
This idea is sparking my imagination. With this premise you're not telling the same old stories of transporter duplicates or the holodeck going crazy and now trying to take over the ship. We have a crew and ship that have become symbols of hope. They have a multi purpose mission: Defend the Federation Remnant. Find out what happened. Find out the condition of the other galactic powers. Find other remnants of Star fleet.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That's a reasonable idea.
I prefer to think of it as "Starfleet has next to no physical requirements for positions other than infantry or shipboard security", but given that canon says nothing on the matter that's an entirely reasonable point of view.
This one is simple to answer - the Federation might not have been capable of that level of genetic screening at the time of Geordi's brith. There's also the issue that a large number of Federation citizens might object to "designer babies". That is, the genetic screening can be done if there's any reason to think there might be serious health risks to mother or child. A dwarf does not necessarily face either of these, nor would a blind man - and considering that the Federation bias against genetic engineering is strong enough that, in the books, they were willing to allow one of their founding members, the Andorians, to die out rather than use genetic engineering to save themselves, such that the Andorians had to actually leave the Federation to survive (that is, leave so that they no longer have to care about Federation law) I can see how this attitude might be common.
Quite right, too.
i could see something like this being focused on a group or crew forming over time, different ships and backgrounds, some kind of interplay or historical links but maybe in search of the enterprise, rather than about the enterprise, having the enterprise as an ideal, or a standard. maybe the old enterprise is never found, maybe it was never meant to be found, it was the crew that made the ship after all, and the crew and that ship that really kindled the whole federation. kind of like a Post Apocalyptic, pre enterprise.. inspired by the old enterprise, and her crews thing.
that would also allow the story to flow over greater distances and cover far more ground than the actions of a single vehicle, although things will start to converge over time as these individuals come together.. so much scope lol and there in lies a part of the problem, how much can you reasonably squeeze in without it being too thin around the edges and loosing cohesion?
genetic screening is all well and good, but im guessing those facilities wont be available at every colony out there.. there will always be room for things to occur.. o natural like
This. For a real-life comparison, NPR has been following a US Marine Corps infantry training company, the first-ever to include women now that they're allowed in active combat. A LOT of the female infantry candidates have dropped out because of physical issues.
Another example: Iraq and Afghanistan vets with missing limbs are now getting to go back on active duty because of improved prosthetics, where less than two decades ago their injuries would have meant medical discharge. But they're NOT serving in combat occupations.
Your comparison of Melora Pazlar is a similar situation. She's a science officer, not a combat specialty. It's not discrimination to not allow somebody to do a job they are physically incapable of performing; in fact it's negligent to let them TRY because it's bad for them AND the rest of the organization.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I would also point out that not all congenital abnormalities are genetic in origin. Many are...not all. At least in the 21st century, that is the case.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
and Idea I was thinking about...piggy backing on the already awesome ideas people put forth in this thread is...that maybe someone found the Star Fleet Mothball fleet. In the US Navy ships aren't just destroyed when they are decommissioned. They go to a moth ball fleet and are maintained in case of a war they can call up more ships as needed. I imagine Star Fleet probably does something similar.
So lets say our lead character finds the mothball fleet and the only ship they can get running is the NX Enterprise. I chose this ship because it had a crew of 85 and could probably operate with half that number...anything else...other than a Defiant is just too big. So maybe thee find the museum ship and get it working...and the museum ship is that first Enterprise.
We have the person who found the ship...they will be the captain and they will want to be a beacon of hope. However they don't know the first thing about starships so the Executive officer is a former Star Fleet officer...he's or she been through the wringer and came through changed. While the captain wants to be a beacon of hope the XO wants to take the news ship and make whomever did this to them pay. He's quick to pull the trigger and this causes problems between CO and XO.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You could, however, use an old Miranda-class ship. Khan ran that with a crew of, what, 17 at most?
I suppose the reason we haven't seen a dwarf Human in charge of a starship yet is because we haven't seen that many starship commanders on screen, and the number of people with dwarfism is small (if you'll pardon the expression). We just haven't run across the two or three ships in the entire fleet with dwarf captains.
There may be very specific exceptions in cases where recruitment is low and very specific non-combat positions need filling, but these would likely be postings on science ships and ships that will never see combat, and would never be deployed on a ship or ground posting that would see combat.
Even barring that; with a much larger population, multiple species, and the huge advances in medical technology that, if not outright eliminated have lessened cases of dwarfism, that the odds of seeing a dwarf in starfleet, let alone as captain, are so infinitesimally small as to be irrelevant to discussion.
I don't play identity politics or political correctness, but i won't let you draw me into a debate that is that off topic.
Small stature is not a problem to my mind.
Any issues that may happen to come *with* it, ranging from serious joint/connective tissue dysfunction, excess fluid on the brain, or severe stroke potential (potential complications of diastrophic, achondroplasic, and primordial types of dwarfism respectively), however, would probably constitute treatable conditions just as individuals seek treatment for them now. Though how said treatment occurs I have no idea what would be by the 25th century.
Whether or not such complications exist is entirely an individual matter. Some people don't have any at all, and I would be royally screwed in any sports competition or fight. (Though not a human example of a person with little person stature, the way I've imagined Captain Teeglar, he'd likely have me screaming to make the beat down stop in seconds. A little person in good physical condition could doubtless accomplish the same IRL though I can't say I have actually competed to find that out.) Others have severe and life-threatening complications. The genetic and other causes are so diverse that I know well enough to know I can't make blanket statements.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
A fusion of Andromeda and the reimagined BSG?
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Barring Bashir's gene therapy (which she rejected) or a much more reliable prosthesis, Melora might be allowed to command a research unit but she'd never be given a combatant ship because she'd be physically useless in any number of situations.
I never said one couldn't. I'm saying that it would be difficult to find one who could pass PT (for the reasons gulberat mentioned, among others). I recall Tuvok doing PT with the Maquis members in VULCAN gravity, no allowances for species, which gives you some idea of what Starfleet considers appropriate physical fitness aboard combatant ships.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
As an example of an individual with a confirmed genetic disorder in service, I have a Pakled tactician on the Macet who has been controlling his disorder well with medication since early childhood. (For reasons too complicated to go here, genetic manipulation even for a cure was complete anathema to his people whereas a Fed citizen might have taken it.) However, it is clearly established that the reason he is pursuing advanced degrees so aggressively is that he knows that if his condition deteriorates and he is no longer able to meet his species' established physical criteria, he will be grounded, and he intends to be ready to either teach in Starfleet or be the equivalent of a Department of Defense employee or a civilian tactical/strategic consultant. He is currently doing a master's degree and most likely by the time this becomes a concern he will at least be underway with his doctorate, if not already BE a Ph D.
But until his genetic disorder catches up with him and the current method of treatment no longer works effectively enough to prevent any symptoms, Starfleet has no problem with him remaining in service since right now, he is not manifesting any ill effects.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Yeah, in a Starfleet that accepts Humans and Vulcans equally...and accepts Tellarites, most if not all of whom are very short by Human standards, and has some Klingons, who are incredibly durable--the hiring standards for physical fitness are probably near-zero.
Not really. Tellarites, humans, Andorians, Bajorans, and most of the other species in the Federation all have homeworlds at or around 1 gravity, so there isn't going to be much of a strength difference between them on average. Dramatically stronger species (Vulcanoids and Klingons) or dramatically weaker species (Elaysians) are very much outliers. So Starfleet can probably pretty well afford to use humans as the baseline, and training them to something resembling Vulcan baseline wouldn't be that hard with a 24th century understanding of physiology and nutrition. I note non-Vulcan Starfleet personnel having a distinct lack of difficulty dealing with Vulcan's 1.5 gravities in the TOS movies.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I think you've connected to what I was trying (poorly) to express. :cool:
That's really an intriguing thought. If not the NX-01, likely something else noteworthy.
You also appear to get my concept. :cool:
I like the ideas you present. Right off the bat, I'm not sure how the scope of the thing would be handled, unless initially, a large portion of the first season is done as an anthology of stories and only later do some of them sort out to show an ongoing cast. A very different concept than what TV does, so..risky.
I too have been thinking on the suggestion in my OP. The scenario developing in my mind is an invasion on a quadrant scale. Think locust-like: incredibly huge swarm of enemy entering from beyond the galaxy (possibly extra-dimensional or parallel universe), devastating all in its path, taking whatever they want, and (very important) moving on. The tale is told from the viewpoint of a ship returning from deep exploration which runs smack into the middle of the rear guard of the swarm, taking huge damage and losses but managing to survive. They limp for the next couple of weeks, understaffed, and held together with "string & chewing gum". Silence on interstellar chatter (the swarm has destroyed subspace relays). Approaching the first known inhabited planets they find phenomenal devastation and the pattern repeats wherever they go. The crew finds the graveyard of a great space battle, and among the wreckage they find a ship of the same model as their own. Carbon scoring and damage block the view of most of the name but "ENT...E" are visible. The captain orders his crew to use all they find on the hulk of the ship to rebuild their own. The ship's dedication plaque is found and in a moment of inspiration, the captain decides that with a large portion of his rebuilt ship being part of the other, a "spirit" of sorts has been transferred. He will re-christen his ship the Enterprise, knowing the name is a legend and will bring hope to all they help. In ceremony, he hangs the dedication plaque, and strikes out to begin helping rebuild the Federation. Along the way, he'll likely find survivors who are retired Starfleet personnel or even civilians who are good at sciences and engineering to restaff his ship. But it is one ship and the effects of such a huge disaster are just beginning to be understood.
I was hoping for a self-depricating, Statist, Bisexual, Latino, and Janist myself. Really though, if the actor, character concept and script is good a persons sex, race and sexual orientation shouldn't even get noticed. But I do acknowledge that some people put a lot of weight in those things. Hey lets have the Captain be morbidly obese too!
Peter Dinklage seems to vet around just fine, and hes a damned good actor. Be interesting to have him a the main on a series.