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birzark
Member Posts: 634 Arc User
There are many players myself included that are bothered by the Surgical Strikes Nerf. I just am curious how it affected everyone's build, I lost about 1/3 of my DPS considering I built the ship around that ability. How much did it affect you?
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I think I lost damage because the AMP core got nerfed.
I parsed a week ago and this weekend it is 8k less dps on ISA
From what I read, even tho there was a slight nerf, its still better than its other single targer counterparts
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
I'm not so sure why you'd be bothered by it. It was a crutch... a nice crutch to be sure... but a crutch... and it was most certainly overperfoming and causing unbalance in both PvE and PvP.
It's a nice skill... still is... but it's much better balanced now... and shouldn't have been needed to accomplish any content in this game.
I didn't think it was over performing in PVE, also i was bothered by it because i built my ship around that ability. I prefer using Surgical Strikes over FAW, because I didn't like targeting every ship around me. Also what really bothers me is this quote before the change from Borticus
He tuned the ability in favor of 1 vs 1 while PVE got hit very hard. 1/3 of my total DPS lost is a BIG difference. Then he talks about the changes to SS on Red Shirt Notes:
i would love to know without being a romulan how do you get to 200 crit severity? I think if i maxed everything out(too resource heavy for my taste) but if i did i think i would get to maybe 170ish certainly not 200.
I just wish it was handled better when they balanced it.
- Char base: 50
- maxed skill tree: ~25*
- Bio Neural MK14 Epic: 25
- Borg: ~10
- Tachio: ~ 10
- 2 sup. operatives: 10
- AP Crit D x 4: 100*
->> 230 on a fed (and thats not even considered a thrid operative on some ships, DHCs or the 3 piece dyson weapons set)
*local crit d mods so not displayed on ship stats
Its not that hard to pull fed toons with 25% crit H under upper mentioned D conditions. If you add AP Alpha, flanking as well as SS3 one comes close to 75% critical chance. After the nerf one still crits at least 2 out of 3 times under these conditions and deals more than 3 times of the regular dmg then.
Two seasons ago a ground kit module granting similar absurd numbers was swiftly adjusted. I think SS3 comes out of the nerf hammer still pretty nice.
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If one ability is good for 1/3 of the DPS of an entire ship, then that ability is ridiculously OP. I've never used this thing but I'm glad they nerf OP stuff.
Don't look at how much BFAW contributes then...
He actually stated it wrong. According to the OP, the change cost him 1/3 of his damage output. The nerf didn't remove the entire skill from the game, it just lowered its strength a bit. That cost him 1/3. But at the same time, borticus stated this: Whaver his original damage was, it must have been beyond what BFAW gave anyone.
AMP core? Do you mean the AMP modifier for warp/singularity cores?
[/SIGPIC]
Corbin is the most qualified to say on this due to his toon being the highest DPS currently an SS ability achieved.
In my opinion, nerfing an ability just because a few whiny PvPers say so is not good at the expense of PvE users. Never was SS OP in PvE since you cannot one shot tac cubes with 100kish per shot.
Let the minority PvP whiners adapt for change. Imagine if another game nerfed marauders just because a few players got pawned in their 12 battlecruisers by 1 marauder. rather than adapting and bringing counters or thinking new ways to counter, they whine to dev for a nerf. If they dont get what they want, they discourage the community and destroy the community and blame the game mechanics for it.
The cycle of whining and nerfing has got to stop.
Forget PVP. Imagine it doesn'T exist, and that no PVP player ever complained about anything, because they all don't exist in STO, since STO has no PvP.
Now imagine a world where you have the choice between Cannon Rapid Fire or Beam Fire At Will or Surgical Strike, and Surgical Strike always yields more DPS.
Now imagine you had to choose between two ships - one ship has access to all 3, the other ship has only access to BFAW and CRF.
You realize that the second ship is forever disadvantages. And now imagine that the second ship is your favourite ship.
That's why things need to be balanced.
How many Galaxy Retrofit threads exist that complain that the Galaxy is the weakest of the Cruisers? You know why that is? Because balance problems were not fixed, and some ships have access to better skills than others.
Its not fair to compare Surgical Strikes to Fire at Will because the SS3 is a Comm slot ability and FAW3 is a LTC slot ability. Also i understand the balance because when NPC's gain the ability, but even just dropping the accuracy or accuracy and critH, fine. But they did that AND dropped the damage which is over kill in my opinion.
They dropped the values to something where the damage parsed reasonable compared to the alternatives.
And my fundamental point is not about specific values. That's just haggling over the price. The fundamental thing that every single player has to accept is that balance matters even in a PvE only game, even if the ability is only available to players. So an ability that's too good? It gets nerfed. No crying, whining or complaining, no accusations of greed, bait & switch, no shifting the blame to players, none of that, will change that.
If you can't accept that, you will just have to live with disappointment.
There was no good counter except damage reflection or speeding away. It was like CRF on steroids.
NO skill/weaopn/other item should be "needed" to go and play whatever mission/PvP field.
That there was a thing like SS only resulted in a big disadvantage for those not using it.
This nerf was clearly justifiable, IMHO.
I wouldnt give to much credibility to their testing. They have shown one after another that their testing techniques are (usually) far from the actual, realistic result.
I guess they fired from 9.99km with weapon power set to 25 against a single target or something like that.
Well what do you expect? People like big numbers...they're going to be upset with any nerf to their dps no matter what reason or how cheesey it is...Plasma Doping and the AMP were both bugs people were taking advantage of...doesn't matter if they were bugs...people used them to get bigger numbers and now they're upset.
SS3 was just outrageous...another example where they're upset...getting bigger numbers seems to be the only purpose in the game for them...silly I know but to each is own I guess.
So you prefer a "Iwin" crutch that was far and beyond any other single damage boss skill in the game? Please explain why you need a skill to compete with competent players who are doing just fine without using such a grossly out of balance skill. Do they need to add a difficulty level below easy for you?
When I started noticing SS1 being = to my BFAW2, than to me there is an issue.
I mean, how can a skill granting a x2-x2.5 dmg boost + 20%-40% [acc][crth], not be seen as pretty OPing?
And, I don't even play PVP at all to notice this!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I no longer use and avoid them,
Thus invalidating their hard work as a "reward" for their actions.
Completely concur. Besides, if it really accounts for 1/ of your total DPS, you should have known in the back of your mind this wasn't going to last.
Yes I mean the AMP mod for the Spire cores. I was talking with someone from the dps channel and he told me he actually had an damage increase after that nerf/fix, opposite to my experience but his core is epic in rarity mine not. Mine has no upgrades.