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i just need to be reminded again why this game has a AFK Penalty concept?

hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
edited March 2015 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
who's idea was it again to have this concept in the game i went and forgot
Post edited by hamster1234 on
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It was added because there used to be people that would just join a queue and do nothing at all. Since many queues could not be failed it just made the mission take a LONG time. If you quit you got the leaver penalty so the person that AFKed really had no motivation to play.

    Sometimes you would start an STF and have 4 AFKers and you could either leave and get a large lockout or do the mission solo and have it take forever.

    Overall the AFK penalty sucks but the alternative is worse and if you want to remove the AFK penalty you would have to come up with a better way to solve the same problem.
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    thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    immudzen wrote: »
    It was added because there used to be people that would just join a queue and do nothing at all.

    Tada! It's just that simple. /thread
    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    well this is my thing must it be a 2 hr wait?

    must the penalty be also account bound?

    and can't we have a player voting system then a system decision?

    and can't it reward marks still then trying to take everything away?
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    ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    because we can't TK leachers
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So long as you do more than 2-3% of the damage IIRC you don't get the AFK penalty. That means that even if you only do 500 dps that is enough not to get the AFK penalty. If you are going the AFK penalty you pretty much have to be AFK or somehow you ended up on a team where everyone else was 100K+ range.

    Also if you can't play for the next 15 minutes then don't join a queue. I understand life happens but if you join a queue and can't actually play that makes it harder for everyone else and many other players have limited time also and you would be ruining their time.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Voting would be horribly abused by this community.

    AFK thresholds, imho, should be something they take a look at - so that it registers fewer false positives. There are all sorts of situations that might trigger an AFK penalty where it's not really a case of the person being AFK or trying to leech.

    Another thing, imho, would be a case of looking into reducing the penalty for it - perhaps some sort of sliding scale mechanism in play for what happened - getting more into the threshold thing. Somebody shows up and doesn't do diddly from the start isn't AFKin' like the guy that might have lagged out a bit near the end of the fight but had been contributing throughout...and so forth.

    It's just a royal PITA that can unjustly affect certain players because of the actions of others, and the logical fix for it would just be a nightmare because of certain players again...

    ...it definitely gets frustrating, meh. Well, er, not that I've gotten an AFK penalty - so not frustrating in that sense; just one of those things where, imho, you just can't help but feel for the folks getting screwed over by the way things end up having to work because of a small group of leeches/trolls/etc in the game.
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    liniisanliniisan Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    immudzen wrote: »
    It was added because there used to be people that would just join a queue and do nothing at all. Since many queues could not be failed it just made the mission take a LONG time. If you quit you got the leaver penalty so the person that AFKed really had no motivation to play.

    Sometimes you would start an STF and have 4 AFKers and you could either leave and get a large lockout or do the mission solo and have it take forever.

    Overall the AFK penalty sucks but the alternative is worse and if you want to remove the AFK penalty you would have to come up with a better way to solve the same problem.

    then why not just make an afk penalty for the queue???
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ok what happened was i went into a space pve and before i went into it, starbase incursion was having 4 persons at the ready sitting in queued when i got done with the space pve it was still sitting at 4 persons in queued, so not being a selfish type person i went and been person

    number 5 because they was waiting for i am sure a fair while and i thought it be kind of me to get that process started for them so they can move onto other things what ever they got to do, anyways i forgot to check if i was set up on my alt for ground combat and i was not and in

    the mission i was busy trying to hurry as fast as i could getting myself ready for ground combat but by the time i was ready the penalty went into effect while i was still in the mission, so tell me for some of you that believes in the concept 100% was i in the wrong for caring about others and not so much myself?
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    peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    well this is my thing must it be a 2 hr wait?

    must the penalty be also account bound?

    and can't we have a player voting system then a system decision?

    and can't it reward marks still then trying to take everything away?

    1. Yes

    2. Didn't know it was.

    3. Good God no!

    4. Not sure what you are even asking here.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    peetapipmac wrote: »
    1. Yes

    2. Didn't know it was.

    3. Good God no!

    4. Not sure what you are even asking here.
    ok do you get marks still if you have the penalty going into effect on you?
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    peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    ok do you get marks still if you have the penalty going into effect on you?

    based on the dev blogs when the penelty was introduced you shouldn't, though I have never actually gotten the penalty (despite on occasion actively trying too) so I don't know if it actually does.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
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    shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    ok what happened was i went into a space pve and before i went into it, starbase incursion was having 4 persons at the ready sitting in queued when i got done with the space pve it was still sitting at 4 persons in queued, so not being a selfish type person i went and been person

    number 5 because they was waiting for i am sure a fair while and i thought it be kind of me to get that process started for them so they can move onto other things what ever they got to do, anyways i forgot to check if i was set up on my alt for ground combat and i was not and in

    the mission i was busy trying to hurry as fast as i could getting myself ready for ground combat but by the time i was ready the penalty went into effect while i was still in the mission, so tell me for some of you that believes in the concept 100% was i in the wrong for caring about others and not so much myself?

    Ok, based off of this misleading story, I am going to assume to rightfully deserved the penalty.

    2hrs. is plenty sufficient, to try and drive off player's, who would leech via afk idling.

    I have absolutely no remorse for them, none!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    shadowwraith77 wrote: »
    Ok, based off of this misleading story, I am going to assume to rightfully deserved the penalty.

    2hrs. is plenty sufficient, to try and drive off player's, who would leech via afk idling.

    I have absolutely no remorse for them, none!
    misleading when i just told the truth of that's what really happened? so i dare ask the question misleading how? was you there in the same mission i was?
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    ok what happened was i went into a space pve and before i went into it, starbase incursion was having 4 persons at the ready sitting in queued when i got done with the space pve it was still sitting at 4 persons in queued, so not being a selfish type person i went and been person

    number 5 because they was waiting for i am sure a fair while and i thought it be kind of me to get that process started for them so they can move onto other things what ever they got to do, anyways i forgot to check if i was set up on my alt for ground combat and i was not and in

    the mission i was busy trying to hurry as fast as i could getting myself ready for ground combat but by the time i was ready the penalty went into effect while i was still in the mission, so tell me for some of you that believes in the concept 100% was i in the wrong for caring about others and not so much myself?

    That does come off as you brought it on yourself there...would have been that quick check, that wham bam (normal process) thing before hitting up a queue (Space or Ground)...and you wouldn't have had an issue there. Sure, you saw four folks sitting there and figured you'd go along as the fifth to help them out - but if they were sitting there, what rush was there in wanting to help them out, eh? Taking that moment to make sure you were ready to help out and all that...

    ...what I said earlier, I still stand by that - but er - what I said before I wouldn't apply to this situation as it was described...though, I guess the scaling for the penalty would still come into play (basically allowing for somebody to work their way back from an AFK penalty (though, just how long would it take to switch the switchable stuff))...but oh well.
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    misleading when i just told the truth of that's what really happened? so i dare ask the question misleading how? was you there in the same mission i was?

    In reading the initial complaint, I wouldn't have expected the explanation that followed...so that might have been what he saw as misleading. I didn't assume any attempt, personally, so I wouldn't label it as misleading - but yeah, didn't expect the explanation that was presented for the initial complaint.
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    virusdancer wrote: »
    That does come off as you brought it on yourself there...would have been that quick check, that wham bam (normal process) thing before hitting up a queue (Space or Ground)...and you wouldn't have had an issue there. Sure, you saw four folks sitting there and figured you'd go along as the fifth to help them out - but if they were sitting there, what rush was there in wanting to help them out, eh? Taking that moment to make sure you were ready to help out and all that...

    ...what I said earlier, I still stand by that - but er - what I said before I wouldn't apply to this situation as it was described...though, I guess the scaling for the penalty would still come into play (basically allowing for somebody to work their way back from an AFK penalty (though, just how long would it take to switch the switchable stuff))...but oh well.



    In reading the initial complaint, I wouldn't have expected the explanation that followed...so that might have been what he saw as misleading. I didn't assume any attempt, personally, so I wouldn't label it as misleading - but yeah, didn't expect the explanation that was presented for the initial complaint.
    thing is i have learned over the years when it comes to the forms the saying damned if you don't tell the truth damned if you do tell the truth persons judge the way they want to and could care less how wrong they are doing it in the first place what can you say...
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    sopwithsnipe wrote: »
    Cryptic being wusses worried about losing paying customers doesn't have the spheres to implement an AFK penalty with real teeth so we got saddled with this milktoast penalty that simply annoys people.
    i do not agree with the one size shoe fits all concept i rather it be for that pve mission only, not even category specific just it be for mission bound because locking someone out of all of the pve missions just gets persons annoyed at PWE more
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    shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    misleading when i just told the truth of that's what really happened? so i dare ask the question misleading how? was you there in the same mission i was?

    It's how you crammed all of your wording together!

    Makes it seem, like it all runs together.

    Also, it shouldn't have taken you, an entire ground queue, just to get ready for a ground queue!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

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    ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Why do you think it was being helpful to bring ungeared alt into a queue

    It wasn't being helpful it was mooching
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    shadowwraith77 wrote: »
    It's how you crammed all of your wording together!

    Makes it seem, like it all runs together.

    Also, it shouldn't have taken you, an entire ground queue, just to get ready for a ground queue!
    yeah it was my fault for not being ready you got me there and you win with your point there i won't fight you on that, but i really honestly forgot to check, also not all of us is the me me me mind set, i do have the mind set of a care bear yes i know weird coming from a guy but it is who i am and if i can try to help someone as best as i can i will go and do it
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    tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    shadowwraith77 wrote: »
    It's how you crammed all of your wording together!

    Makes it seem, like it all runs together.

    Also, it shouldn't have taken you, an entire ground queue, just to get ready for a ground queue!

    What Wraith said, you can't seriously be saying it took you THAT LONG to gear up, and hell its Starbase Incursion. My Bridge Officer once beamed in during a rather long period of that beam-in bug being around, and she wiped the floor with the Borg with a half-decent set-up, and if my Boff can do that with the lack of AI most NPC's have then you have no excuse frankly.

    Also, the few times I have issues (and that is incredibly rare) quick equip allows me to sort myself in a few seconds.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ursusmorologus wrote: »
    Why do you think it was being helpful to bring ungeared alt into a queue

    It wasn't being helpful it was mooching
    it was not that she was geared because she was it was more along the lines of my hot bar not being mapped right and my keyboard not being mapped right
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    sopwithsnipe wrote: »
    No one is ever locked out of all PVE missions when they acquire an AFK penalty. They simply can't use the queue for an hour or two on that specific character. They are still free to solo on that character or switch to another character.

    That's why the AFK penalty is ineffective in this game. It's easily circumvented and ignored by switching characters, or soloing until the penalty expires.


    I do need clarification on private teams tho. Does the AFK penalty stop people from forming private teams outside the queue feature? If not then the AFK penalty only stops pugging for a short period of time.
    sir when it goes into effect for me it don't let me join none of pve missions at all no joke ether
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    shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    it was not that she was geared because she was it was more along the lines of my hot bar not being mapped right and my keyboard not being mapped right

    Eck! *Double facepalm* Lesson learned for next time, be prepared in advance!
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    sir when it goes into effect for me it don't let me join none of pve missions at all no joke ether

    It is only subjected, to the character that received it initially.

    Switching to another character in the mean time, that isn't under any penalties, can go ahead and re-queue.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

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    jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    immudzen wrote: »
    It was added because there used to be people that would just join a queue and do nothing at all.


    Used to be?

    I see people AFK'ing at least 3 times per week. During the Crystalline Cataclysm Event I saw it happen at least once per day.
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    peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    Used to be?

    I see people AFK'ing at least 3 times per week. During the Crystalline Cataclysm Event I saw it happen at least once per day.

    That's cause the afk penalty doesn't apply to that mission. There are a few that are like that.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
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    jrq2jrq2 Member Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    If anything that needs fixing is that stupid bug where when you fail the mission and you beam out you get hit with the one hour Leavers penalty.

    There is nothing worse than being stuck with a bunch of clueless players, that has never done the mission before.

    We are literally held hostage until the timer runs out and even then there is no guarantee that it still won’t hit you if you beam out.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hamster1234 wrote: »
    it was not that she was geared because she was it was more along the lines of my hot bar not being mapped right and my keyboard not being mapped right

    Was it mapped before...but lost in the transition to the map? Cause the "before" would lend itself to that prepared thing...the "lost" is an annoying PITA that needs to DIAF and go away. It's frustrating as Hell to go into something where everything was fine but then it's all jacked up...
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jrq2 wrote: »
    If anything that needs fixing is that stupid bug where when you fail the mission and you beam out you get hit with the one hour Leavers penalty.

    There is nothing worse than being stuck with a bunch of clueless players, that has never done the mission before.

    We are literally held hostage until the timer runs out and even then there is no guarantee that it still won’t hit you if you beam out.

    Sounds like a good opportunity to spend some time possibly helping folks better understand what needs to be done for next time...whether one actually feels they're being helpful to do that or they're just hoping that more folks will learn and they'll be less likely to run into a group like that. Heh, works for both the selfless and the selfish. ;)

    Still though, didn't they verify that as a bug at one point and they were going to work on that? Can't remember...thought they had...
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    jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jrq2 wrote: »
    If anything that needs fixing is that stupid bug where when you fail the mission and you beam out you get hit with the one hour Leavers penalty.


    Or worse....


    I used to play Undine Infiltration Advanced a lot until about 2 months ago; I wanted to take a break from STFs and then focus on others. One of the last time I played the mission it failed because there were only 3 of us trying to stop the Undine from stealing the Orb (none of us were engineers). I do not know what the hell the other two players were doing because I never saw them after we all left the starting point.

    Anywaste... we took down 4 Undines before the mission failed. Okay, no big deal... players started to leave the mission and I was the last to leave. To my surprise, I got smacked with a 2 hour AFK penalty. I am pretty sure I did more 1% of the total damage since I was the 2nd to appear on the scene to stop the Undine.
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    jrq2jrq2 Member Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    virusdancer wrote: »
    Sounds like a good opportunity to spend some time possibly helping folks better understand what needs to be done for next time...whether one actually feels they're being helpful to do that or they're just hoping that more folks will learn and they'll be less likely to run into a group like that. Heh, works for both the selfless and the selfish. ;)

    Still though, didn't they verify that as a bug at one point and they were going to work on that? Can't remember...thought they had...

    I’m all for that, but that is not the issue, the issue is when you get stuck with clueless players that don’t speak the same language as you.

    Every run I always throw out quick Tells like:

    Follow us
    Stay close
    This way
    We are (X) here and so on.

    It’s when they don’t listen and end up dying more times than normal is when I assume that we don’t share the same language.

    And at that point I feel the whole hostage thing going on.

    What can one do in this kind of situation?

    Other than regret queueing for a PUG run, but other than that what can we do?
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