riiiiight. causes loss of fun. sure. because everyone in here hasn't spent I don't know....MONTHS complaining about grinding Argala. now you have to play different things.
We ground Argala because it was the best source of XP for the time it took. Now they've halfed the amount of XP it gives and slapped a 30 minute cooldown on it. So yeah, it's a nerf.
When we said we wanted other sources of XP, we meant they needed to seriously up the XP gains across the game, not slightly increase them (by seriously around 1K for the most part... when you need 160K per rank that's pointless) everywhere else whilst halving the best source.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
why not just make it so it is totally based on play time... if you take 10 mins to finish the patrol you get awarded X amount... if I take 100 mins then I get 10 times X...
just put a cap on it for max amount you can earn in each patrol... folks will then stay in each patrol for the max amount of time needed...
that way all patrols have the same max amount you can possibly earn... if you stay for the max duration.
why not just make it so it is totally based on play time... if you take 10 mins to finish the patrol you get awarded X amount... if I take 100 mins then I get 10 times X...
just put a cap on it for max amount you can earn in each patrol... folks will then stay in each patrol for the max amount of time needed...
that way all patrols have the same max amount you can possibly earn... if you stay for the max duration.
Shoot 4 waves, go make a coffee, eat, shower or something, finish. Yeah, at least the metrics would seem right...
Shoot 4 waves, go make a coffee, eat, shower or something, finish. Yeah, at least the metrics would seem right...
If anything the reward should be higher if you manage it faster than the estimated average completion time.
In the beginning this would pay out a lot more than it is probably worth, but over time the reward would self correct as more realistic completion times would emerge.
why not just make it so it is totally based on play time... if you take 10 mins to finish the patrol you get awarded X amount... if I take 100 mins then I get 10 times X...
just put a cap on it for max amount you can earn in each patrol... folks will then stay in each patrol for the max amount of time needed...
that way all patrols have the same max amount you can possibly earn... if you stay for the max duration.
Shoot 4 waves, go make a coffee, eat, shower or something, finish. Yeah, at least the metrics would seem right...
What woodwhity said is exactly the reason they don't use that type of system.
Back when they started 'fixing' foundry rewards by tying them to mission which took a certain amount of time, people did cheat the system by simply going AFK in the mission for ten minutes then coming back killing everything and leaving to get the reward.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
We hope you are enjoying the recent improvements to the rewards. This recent update added a lot of different ways to earn more Skill Points, Expertise and Dilithium. Based on feedback and session data collected over the weekend, we are seeing a trend that some patrols are seeing more play than others based on their Dilithium reward. Most patrols are rewarding 480 Dilithium. Some are awarding 360 Dilithium, while a few are rewarding 720. In order to simplify the system and encourage play of any patrol for the Dilithium, we are making every patrol reward 480 Dilithium for completion. This change will not affect the Skill Points or Expertise being rewarded and will only affect the Delta Quadrant and Tau Dewa Patrols that were recently modified.
We will continue to monitor the play session, as well as your feedback, and make further changes as needed.
Charles Gray
Lead Content Designer
Star Trek Online
^^^
Translation:
"Hi, we've backtracked YET AGAIN and decided Dilithium really isn't a time based currency; and while we'll data mine FOR WEEKS (and not respond to player posts) regarding XP and reward reductions when we feel players aren't using content the way WE want them to; we'll QUICKLY undo reward increases with just a short datamined sample period. I mean yes, we limit Dilithium introduction into the STO economy to 8000 per day (9000 if a player really works at it); but hey, can't have players with limited playtime playing efficiently to advance.
If we find you players are NOT playing the game the way we think you should be, we'll nerf rewards on 'more popular' content until you do. You should all realize by now that NOT playing our way is effectively an exploit (even if we at Cryptic don't explicitly say it is), should feel bad, and should not complain when we AGAIN nerf rewards.
Thanks for grinding...; er, I mean playing Star Trek Online"
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Translation:
"Hi, we've backtracked YET AGAIN and decided Dilithium really isn't a time based currency; and while we'll data mine FOR WEEKS (and not respond to player posts) regarding XP and reward reductions when we feel players aren't using content the way WE want them to; we'll QUICKLY undo reward increases with just a short datamined sample period. I mean yes, we limit Dilithium introduction into the STO economy to 8000 per day (9000 if a player really works at it); but hey, can't have players with limited playtime playing efficiently to advance.
If we find you players are NOT playing the game the way we think you should be, we'll nerf rewards on 'more popular' content until you do. You should all realize by now that NOT playing our way is effectively an exploit (even if we at Cryptic don't explicitly say it is), should feel bad, and should not complain when we AGAIN nerf rewards.
Thanks for grinding...; er, I mean playing Star Trek Online"
I'm too exhausted to post my own take , but ^^ this is close enough ... .
or to quote G1 Megatron : " ... I see incompetence breeds even more incompetence , muhahahahahaaa ..."
the rewards should be probably related to time spent while in red alert mode vs outside the alert to get campers and afkers and dps over extended time to get those who try to cheat the previous check, so that it'll reward more for missions that are harder.
it'll take into account people who will just sit and wait to artificially extend the mission (out of combat vs in combat counter, the more time spent in combat vs outside combat, the better the reward, so just sitting idly and waiting to get more time would actually hurt the rewards), or who will attack the enemy with mk1 weapons every 3 seconds to artificially prolong the battle and increase in combat timer (dps check, very low output would nerf the rewards significantly).
this is especially for skill point rewards, mostly influenced by getting a "whopping" 2k skill points from an elite stf. that's even less than a story replay, at 150k per spec point the progression is still very slow considering how much effort has to go into those, especially the ones with timed failure conditions.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I'd like to suggest raising the refine cap on dilithium to 16,000 daily, given developments in the game which have dramatically increased Dilithium consumption and demand, 8k seems a bit low for the current meta.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Well, I was talking with a friend, and we think we have everything figured out.
1-They make a list of the content most of the players are not playing.
2-They post the list in the game for players to see.
3-They list how many days they want players to play that content.
4-They boost the reward in that content.
5-Make a new list for the next week.
This way they don't have to keep TRIBBLE up the rewards, and xp payout for missions, and they will get the unused content played, while at the same time not slapping players in the face for playing content they like to play.
Seems like a good idea to me.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
If anything the reward should be higher if you manage it faster than the estimated average completion time.
In the beginning this would pay out a lot more than it is probably worth, but over time the reward would self correct as more realistic completion times would emerge.
that's all well and good if you are paying to get the dilithium to get the new shinies and are a min maxer. the average F2P person gets shafted in that sort of model.
that's all well and good if you are paying to get the dilithium to get the new shinies and are a min maxer. the average F2P person gets shafted in that sort of model.
Cryptic aren't interested in whether we enjoy the content only thing they are interested in is getting players to open up their wallets.
Although I thought rewarding 720 dil for a patrol mission was generous to change it within a week due to them seeing certain patrols were not being run is a prime example.
Take the Romulans sector for example japori and carraya were rewarding 720 for killing 5 waves of npcs. I can do this within 90-120 secs. Then you have that geki herding mission it's not as much fun or the barter for a component mission they take longer and reward less.
Which one am I going to run ? The one that a. Rewards the best b. takes the least time.
Now they all pay out the same. Just because someone at cryptic saw me not playing those other 2 and brought the patrols inline to reward equal amounts am I going to play those patrols I wasn't playing before.
Answer is no, why ? Because I don't enjoy them. The geki one could reward 17x the amount and I wouldn't play it.
Cryptic put that into your metrics and smoke it. Certain content people don't enjoy so that's why it doesn't get run. Nerf everything else all you want if it's not liked it doesn't get played.
Borg stfs battered bruised butchered and unbalanced npcs since DR but these are still the most played end game content. Why people enjoy them.
I'm no geki I won't be herded into playing the game you're way, once you finally kill all the fun for me I'll go play a different game, simple metrics, no fun no play no customers no money game dies
That's the first rule of business! Make a product that nobody will enjoy, nobody wants, and you'll make billions in no time! :rolleyes:
They did release a product that was enjoyable, but with every timegate, every reduction in rewards, every hitpoint sponge they pass as a differcult challenge, Every dilithium sink and new gear that requires it , it will eventually get to a point where there is no fun as you're waiting for everything to come off timers before you can play a fluid game
Why did they put time gates on patrol missions. Answer to slow down XP grinding and force players into touring the Galaxy to play other content, Not only does it slow down Specialization point progress, But it slows down starship mastery levelling aswell. The fact dil was introduced was just a token gesture to try to sweeten this nerf.
I would like to know why when I finished Revalations on my main character a couple of months ago, the Vaadwaur cluster Torpedo was only rare quality, with a single modifier, yet now it is very rare quality with additional modifiers. Yet, it is impossible for me to replay the mission and get an improved Torpedo. So what, everyone who jumped on the missions right away just gets screwed on the mission rewards? "Sorry, you have spend a truckload of Dilithium if you want improved items!" Is that pretty much what it comes to? I also believe the exact same thing happened with the mission rewards for Reunion. I got blue quality on my main, yet all my alts get purple, simply because they didn't do the missions until months later.
just to let you know the mission at the gates and the last stand [the 1st kobali mission and last mission] u still dont get the ancient power cells......:mad:
just to let you know the mission at the gates and the last stand [the 1st kobali mission and last mission] u still dont get the ancient power cells......:mad:
now let the ranting continue:D
The missions are...
"Breaking the Wall" - with the associated open mission "At The Gates"...
"With Our Last Breath" - with the associated open mission "The Last Stand"...
...both Act III missions available from the replay console.
They're the last two missions. "At The Gates" is not "Defense At The Gates" which is attached to "The Calvary" which is the first mission.
just to let you know the mission at the gates and the last stand [the 1st kobali mission and last mission] u still dont get the ancient power cells....
I've been able to get them just fine...
Up to two a day (one from each open mission).
I have played through several times since this update was put into play and now I only need 4 more to APC to complete my Delta Rep ground set and unlock a new costume. Yay me. :cool:
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
The main goal we had in mind was to treat Skill Points, Expertise, and Dilithium more like a time currency that is, you play for X minutes you will earn Y rewards. Although this will never be an exact science, we wanted to ensure that time invested would earn you similar rates of these rewards across the game regardless of what you choose to play.
If this was the intent, then why do episode replays reward less than patrols, even though episodes take longer? I know you said it is not an "exact science", but you don't have to be "exact" to see a huge difference between a 5 minute patrol rewarding 480 dilithium and a 10 minute episode replay rewarding 197 dilithium. That's not even in the same ballpark.
Comments
We ground Argala because it was the best source of XP for the time it took. Now they've halfed the amount of XP it gives and slapped a 30 minute cooldown on it. So yeah, it's a nerf.
When we said we wanted other sources of XP, we meant they needed to seriously up the XP gains across the game, not slightly increase them (by seriously around 1K for the most part... when you need 160K per rank that's pointless) everywhere else whilst halving the best source.
just put a cap on it for max amount you can earn in each patrol... folks will then stay in each patrol for the max amount of time needed...
that way all patrols have the same max amount you can possibly earn... if you stay for the max duration.
Shoot 4 waves, go make a coffee, eat, shower or something, finish. Yeah, at least the metrics would seem right...
If anything the reward should be higher if you manage it faster than the estimated average completion time.
In the beginning this would pay out a lot more than it is probably worth, but over time the reward would self correct as more realistic completion times would emerge.
What woodwhity said is exactly the reason they don't use that type of system.
Back when they started 'fixing' foundry rewards by tying them to mission which took a certain amount of time, people did cheat the system by simply going AFK in the mission for ten minutes then coming back killing everything and leaving to get the reward.
Translation:
"Hi, we've backtracked YET AGAIN and decided Dilithium really isn't a time based currency; and while we'll data mine FOR WEEKS (and not respond to player posts) regarding XP and reward reductions when we feel players aren't using content the way WE want them to; we'll QUICKLY undo reward increases with just a short datamined sample period. I mean yes, we limit Dilithium introduction into the STO economy to 8000 per day (9000 if a player really works at it); but hey, can't have players with limited playtime playing efficiently to advance.
If we find you players are NOT playing the game the way we think you should be, we'll nerf rewards on 'more popular' content until you do. You should all realize by now that NOT playing our way is effectively an exploit (even if we at Cryptic don't explicitly say it is), should feel bad, and should not complain when we AGAIN nerf rewards.
Thanks for grinding...; er, I mean playing Star Trek Online"
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'm too exhausted to post my own take , but ^^ this is close enough ... .
or to quote G1 Megatron : " ... I see incompetence breeds even more incompetence , muhahahahahaaa ..."
it'll take into account people who will just sit and wait to artificially extend the mission (out of combat vs in combat counter, the more time spent in combat vs outside combat, the better the reward, so just sitting idly and waiting to get more time would actually hurt the rewards), or who will attack the enemy with mk1 weapons every 3 seconds to artificially prolong the battle and increase in combat timer (dps check, very low output would nerf the rewards significantly).
this is especially for skill point rewards, mostly influenced by getting a "whopping" 2k skill points from an elite stf. that's even less than a story replay, at 150k per spec point the progression is still very slow considering how much effort has to go into those, especially the ones with timed failure conditions.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
1-They make a list of the content most of the players are not playing.
2-They post the list in the game for players to see.
3-They list how many days they want players to play that content.
4-They boost the reward in that content.
5-Make a new list for the next week.
This way they don't have to keep TRIBBLE up the rewards, and xp payout for missions, and they will get the unused content played, while at the same time not slapping players in the face for playing content they like to play.
Seems like a good idea to me.
that's all well and good if you are paying to get the dilithium to get the new shinies and are a min maxer. the average F2P person gets shafted in that sort of model.
Thats what the dilithium refining cap is for, no?
Although I thought rewarding 720 dil for a patrol mission was generous to change it within a week due to them seeing certain patrols were not being run is a prime example.
Take the Romulans sector for example japori and carraya were rewarding 720 for killing 5 waves of npcs. I can do this within 90-120 secs. Then you have that geki herding mission it's not as much fun or the barter for a component mission they take longer and reward less.
Which one am I going to run ? The one that a. Rewards the best b. takes the least time.
Now they all pay out the same. Just because someone at cryptic saw me not playing those other 2 and brought the patrols inline to reward equal amounts am I going to play those patrols I wasn't playing before.
Answer is no, why ? Because I don't enjoy them. The geki one could reward 17x the amount and I wouldn't play it.
Cryptic put that into your metrics and smoke it. Certain content people don't enjoy so that's why it doesn't get run. Nerf everything else all you want if it's not liked it doesn't get played.
Borg stfs battered bruised butchered and unbalanced npcs since DR but these are still the most played end game content. Why people enjoy them.
I'm no geki I won't be herded into playing the game you're way, once you finally kill all the fun for me I'll go play a different game, simple metrics, no fun no play no customers no money game dies
That's the first rule of business! Make a product that nobody will enjoy, nobody wants, and you'll make billions in no time! :rolleyes:
They did release a product that was enjoyable, but with every timegate, every reduction in rewards, every hitpoint sponge they pass as a differcult challenge, Every dilithium sink and new gear that requires it , it will eventually get to a point where there is no fun as you're waiting for everything to come off timers before you can play a fluid game
Why did they put time gates on patrol missions. Answer to slow down XP grinding and force players into touring the Galaxy to play other content, Not only does it slow down Specialization point progress, But it slows down starship mastery levelling aswell. The fact dil was introduced was just a token gesture to try to sweeten this nerf.
now let the ranting continue:D
The missions are...
"Breaking the Wall" - with the associated open mission "At The Gates"...
"With Our Last Breath" - with the associated open mission "The Last Stand"...
...both Act III missions available from the replay console.
They're the last two missions. "At The Gates" is not "Defense At The Gates" which is attached to "The Calvary" which is the first mission.
Well, technically, the next to last two missions.
I've been able to get them just fine...
Up to two a day (one from each open mission).
I have played through several times since this update was put into play and now I only need 4 more to APC to complete my Delta Rep ground set and unlock a new costume. Yay me. :cool:
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
ty 4 the clarification
Yeah what he said.
If this was the intent, then why do episode replays reward less than patrols, even though episodes take longer? I know you said it is not an "exact science", but you don't have to be "exact" to see a huge difference between a 5 minute patrol rewarding 480 dilithium and a 10 minute episode replay rewarding 197 dilithium. That's not even in the same ballpark.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Oh, I beg to differ Your Grand Naginess... They're in the same ballpark, watchin the same game, it's just one has better seats than the other...
http://i.imgur.com/UezGGtF.jpg
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
LOL, well done.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Lol, I needed that...I'm always happy as can be when I come across something like that which makes me laugh despite myself.
Thank you, thank you... I just flew in this morning and boy are my arms tired!
...I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses, avoid the tuna.
:P
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.