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In ANOTHER 50-100 years...
d3cubed
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(Edited)
The Iconians have been defeated, and whatever is left of the Romulan people have joined the Republic. What happens next?
My best bet is that the Dominion invade the Delta Quadrant, and the Alpha Alliance becomes divided about what to do. The Klingons and some branches of Starfleet push for a new Dominion war alongside their Delta allies, but the majority of the Federation and the Republic desire to return to peace after many hard-won conflicts. The Federation public decides not to go to war, but half of Starfleet defects and goes with the Klingons anyway. As a result, the Anti-War starfleet attempt to apprehend them (not intending to start a war), but the pro-war AWOL Starfleet fights back, and sparks a civil war in Starfleet, with the Klingons allied to one side, and the Romulans to the other. Meanwhile, the Borg Cooperative becomes the leading Delta Alliance member, trying to stop the Dominion advance while the Alpha powers squabble.
What do you guys think?
The Iconians have been defeated, and whatever is left of the Romulan people have joined the Republic. What happens next?
My best bet is that the Dominion invade the Delta Quadrant, and the Alpha Alliance becomes divided about what to do. The Klingons and some branches of Starfleet push for a new Dominion war alongside their Delta allies, but the majority of the Federation and the Republic desire to return to peace after many hard-won conflicts. The Federation public decides not to go to war, but half of Starfleet defects and goes with the Klingons anyway. As a result, the Anti-War starfleet attempt to apprehend them (not intending to start a war), but the pro-war AWOL Starfleet fights back, and sparks a civil war in Starfleet, with the Klingons allied to one side, and the Romulans to the other. Meanwhile, the Borg Cooperative becomes the leading Delta Alliance member, trying to stop the Dominion advance while the Alpha powers squabble.
What do you guys think?
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Post edited by d3cubed on
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Edit: But not I don't think the Dominion are going to invade anything. Whatever is going on in the Gamma Quadrant is pretty much at the least keeping the Dominion occupied... at worse is kicking its collective behind.
My guess is it'll spill out over into Federation Territory and we'll end up fighting our next big bad... which whatever it is ... is keeping the Dominion occupied.
The other thing is it's quite possible that the Iconians are what's keeping the Dominion occupied and the Iconian storyline is going to drag on longer then the Wheel of Time series.
Starfleet can not go on a warmongering spree unchecked.. the game already indicates "Anti war riots" taking place that fed aligned chars can "Peacefully disperse".
I wonder if we'll get a "Transport rioters to fun camp" mission. lol
Thing is... in canon we know the Federation lasts longer then another 100 years.
Though when has canon ever been an issue with Cryptic.
The collective will not fall.
Your culture will be assimilated.
Resistance is futile.
So, if Cryptic are sticking to established canon, it's entirely plausible that they are working around the Iconian war being what cements the relationship between the Federation, the Klingon Empire and even the Romulan Republic, to enter into a permanent alliance within the next 100 years...
It could even be possible that the Iconian war is actually what sets the scene for the Temporal Cold War of the 26th Century, as Daniels is somewhat vague on who the antagonists in the Temporal Cold War are... They could very well be the remnants of the Iconians... It could also be the remaining Servitor races deciding that, with the defeat of the Iconians, they will become the 'masters', such as in Babylon 5 and the races subservient to The Shadows continuing forward with The Shadows ideology after The Shadows were 'defeated'...
Are the Iconians actually doing something with the Dominion? I thought they did not recommend invading the Gamma Quadrant till the Alpha/Beta Alliances were conquered?
Only thing I remember seeing to do with the Gamma Quadrant was the teaser of the Borg using the Wormhole...
Who knows... we know that the Iconians and their servitors are watching the Dominion. While the Iconians may not recommend invading the Gamma Quadrant... they may simply decide to ... keep them occupied... much the way that they kept the Undine occupied.
We know something is happening in the Gamma Quadrant... we know the Iconians are keeping a very sharp eye on the Gamma QUadrant... other then that it's grasping at straws.
Noting that there was something remarkably like a Vor'cha in the Battle of Procyon V, I think it's up for debate whether the Klingons have actually "joined" the Federation, or whether this was Daniels simplifying the situation in order to explain it to Archer quickly (and explain why something that Archer could have recognised as a Klingon vessel was present). IMO that's less of a stretch than the Klingons managing to become Federation members in a century.
An interesting question is how the Klingon Empire will evolve. ENT hinted that it had actually been far less militant in its past, and its arc over the 22nd-24th centuries seems to have been a parabola from there; from a fairly loose, aggressive but not mindlessly expansionist empire in the 22nd century, through to the neo-stalinist state of TOS, to a relatively (!) peaceful period in the 24th century and a progressive leadership under Martok and J'm'pok.
Yes, J'm'pok - who started a "war" with the Federation and therefore gets painted as a raving looney, but has actually presided over an astonshingly forward-looking transformation of the Empire.
Such a tiny part of the milky way has been explored natural exploration should bring first contact with new star faring empires ..Some nice some not so nice
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
1. Peace with the Borg. The Borg have "assimilated" the Federation way of benovelent expansion and only accept people that want to be part of the Hive Mind.
2. Klingons, Ferengi, Romulans, Breen and Cardassians have joined the Federation, the Tholians are moving towards an alliance.
3. Dominion has expanded further, and there are now shared borders between Federation and Dominion space. Trade is ongoing, Federation is trying to allay the suspicions of the Founders against Solids, trying to reconcile differences.
4. Much of the Milky Way is considered explored, with many Delta Quadrant factions joining the Federation.
5. Starfleet is starting intergalactic exploration missions, maknig first contact with species in other galaxies. Some galaxies have similar galactic-spanning civilizations, some do not. Some hostile, some not.
Benevolence is irrelevant.
All will become Borg.
Resistance is futile.
Perfection is Relevant.
Violence is not Perfection.
^^^^^^ This!
in 50-100 years, the KDF has finally gotten another ship
Timey wimey.
In different timelines, the Federation was defeated by the Klingons, the Borg, the Xindi and who knows what else.
In some timelines, the Klingons will certainly join.
We do not know what timeline STO follows in that regard. It would not even break canon for a change if it is a different one. It is just that - a different timeline.
For the most part, the Dominion are their own; they only (initially) came here because they thought we were a threat to them, and their answer to a threat was to extinguish it. They aligned with the Cardassians (a means to an end) and the same with the Breen. I wouldn't have be surprised if (had they won) their attention would have ultimately been turned inward, and toward the Confederacy.
One thing is certain for me though, if the Iconian didn't die out all those years ago, then they're not going to be defeated by a Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance. There will always be Iconian somewhere in the Galaxy.
We know that the Klingons (and likely Romulans) are suppose to join the Federation (officially) at some point, and we know that by the 30th Century, the Enterprise-J is fighting the Sphere Builders. Between now, and then, it's anyone's guess really. The Alpha/Beta Quadrants are always going to have their share of opposition, it'll likely be in the form of a new threat that'll crop up - we know the Borg are always on the Horizon too.
What a horrible outlook.
And boring from a writing perspective.
The Federation had more then enough growing. It is time for some shrinking and strife.
Every struggle the Feds had, they managed to overcome and be stronger then before.
It is a damn Mary Sue state and has to be punched in the face if taken seriously in the future.
and yet his empire still wont help the Ferasans or lethians build a ship :mad:
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
The first pure science ship the KDF had that was Klingon came outta a lock box.. a ship from several centuries in the future.. Technically being manufactured for KDF use by the Ferengi. *scratches head* It was that or fly Gorn.. and I love Gorn ships.
Krenn Temporal Destroyer... its actually a a rather nice ship.. good hull, shield, seating, consoles.
And just a bit of a note here.. out of simple curiosity..
Why haven't the Gorn gone and slapped the Voth silly for being a bunch of meat heads?
Gorn sure ain't mammian..
Daniels never said that the Klingon EMPIRE would become part of the Federation. He just said there were Klingons that were part of the Federation in the 25 or 26th century. It might well be just a faction of Klingons.
Unless one of the writers of that episode said something about it off screen, there is no evidence that the entire Klingon empire will ever join the Federation. Some people (myself included) would want that, but that doesn't change anything to the fact that Daniels just mentioned a few species, Klingons included, but he didn't say anything about the Empire.
Even that is irrelevant.
If STO follows one of the infinite amounts of quantum realities in which the Klingon Empire (or even a faction) does not join the Federation, that is not breaking canon or contradicting Daniel's statements.
I am always amazed when this argument is brought up.
We clearly know from other canon episodes, that the Feds being crushed by the Klingon Empire is a clear possibilty - just like the Klingons joining the Federation is another possibility.
Or everyone falling to the Borg.
I disagree. Star Trek is written to give people hope that despite all the idiocy, brutality, callousness, ignorance, violence, unfairness and short-sightedness, wars, plagues and what-you-have humanity will last, that we will stay around, that we will advance, that things will improve.
There is plenty of chance for new chaos or strife in the new galaxies to explore, with new things that challenge our convictions and require us to think about ourselves. It doesn't have to mean everything gets grimdark and the Federation breaks apart. That would be considerably too cheap and obvious. We can establish new franchises for stuff like that.
Also, Star Trek was a vehicle for moral plays. I think the topics of the ethics of warfare and political strife have been touched a lot already, but there might be potential in other areas.
A prosperous, affluent and successful Federation could for example talk about the challenges of new technologies that can change what humanity are. You can create allegories on genetic engineering and similar topics that are less transparent and dated as the ones Star Trek did in the past.
We could also delve into topics like Transhumanism and taking the "Post-Scarcity" society much more serious than Trek ever did so far.
That is correct. But since you'd already pointed that out, and since it would be pointless for me to repeat what you had already stated, I decided to focus on Daniels' statement itself
You can have all that if you want another 100 years later.
I just would like to see the Federation overcoming a real challenge. Something which leaves its ideals as challenged, many worlds in ruins, the ecnomy crumbling and its allies turning away from it for a change.
Something twisting the "humans (Feds in that case - we all know the Feds are anthopocentric) are special" trope.
How can I take the Feds seriously if everything they achieve comes in rather cheaply? Even the Borg and the Dominion war were nothing but minor setbacks on the grand scale of things.
Right thereafter, the Feds were growing and prospering again.
What lesson is in there? That you just have to think about sunshine and that everything will be allright? That you can face darkness and you will overcome it without paying a price?
Single episodes were often enough about paying the price, but nothing ever really inflicted sufficient damage on the Federation to impede its cancer-like growth into every direction.
I want to see the Federation in the underdog position. Retreating. Losing despite the best efforts of its people (and heroes).
Let the Feds overcome a century or two of hardship and we will see what material they are made of.
Fair enough.
Twisting "humans" could be done in a potenitally more interesting ways: Star Trek is full of humanoids. New galaxies might be different, and we could turn the origin of all these humans into a different light - in the other Galaxies, humanoids might be hated or feared, because once upon a time, the Progenitor species (what are they called again?) visited those Galaxies and did more than just set the seeds for humanoid life - they might have eradicated other forms of life. The few humanoids that existed could be responsible for terrible crimes...
The Dominion War did not leave as much as a dent in the Federations progress.
I am talking about losing the Dominion War or a Dominion War scenario.
Betazed was conquered by the Dominion during the War. Earth came under attack. A Starfleet Officer tried to take over the government.
The home of our heroes - Deep Space Nine - got taken over by the enemy.
One of our heroes supported an assassination plot to acquire an unwilling ally.
Billions of people died in the war.
What can you really add that would add something substantially new here, that isn't more than juist a cheap shock effect? (Let's blow up Earth this time!)
This, with the exception of:
*The Feds' allies desert them all the time. The only permanent Federation allies end up as part of it.
**While the Battles of Wolf 359 and Sector 001 were relatively minor blows to the Federation, I would argue that the Dominion War did accomplish some of the above goals. It forced the "sunshine and puppies" feds to come to terms with reality. Now I just want to see a civil war that pits the remaining sunshine and puppies feds (who are apparently still prevalent) against those who acknowledge the difficult realities of the universe.