I have to +1 this. I'm running some PI and armor consoles and I'm doing great, even in my squishy fleet Nova.
TIP: Everyone knows if you get all the sphere agro they're going to take out your shilds. Healing them while being drained will cause the Heals to also get drained. Moving away, hitting BFI, and waiting to heal your shields until after you get drained will give you your full heal and bring your shields right back up.
Yes, good point. Even if I get my shields drained a bit, I often don't bother going for an immediate heal. Just pop a BFI (with the doff for AllDmg resistance), or a PH even, or an EF, if you have it.
Where did you get the idea it's just good for weapons power drain?! Nadion Inversion reduces any power drain to any of your ship's power systems, from without (like ES being used on you) or from within (like thru firing weps).
Derp.
Brian TRIBBLE. I was thinking of something else. You're right
I did adapt, by spending skill points in skills that should have some effect and carefully choosing my gear to counter shield drains. When those skills and all bonuses have zero effect, shield drains are broken (hence the title of this thread). It's that simple.
It is not that simple the problem is not the drain it is the counter, resistance, and spam that is broken not the drain. If you want a fix fix what is broke not what players dont like. While i understand poeple are having a hard time adapting to new tactics. I would even go as far as maybe borg frain needs to be tonned down, or tunned because of the spam.
Engineer, tac command cruiser, two lower copies of overwhelm Emitters, delta shields with 50 percent drain resistance, skilled in insulators. 6 points of threat and 20k dps in pugs. Shields never drop.
Yeah I gotta agree with this, is it to hard to run EPTS and ST? Oh wait that's right...DPS junkies forgo defense in order to go pure offense...well maybe it's time to give that up?
Adapt and overcome.
How come so many players mistake scrubs for dps-players? The latter ones have no problems with any changes ingame and have likely adapted before the change hits holodeck. The first ones are the ones failing stfs and complaining without even thinking of change.
How come so many players mistake scrubs for dps-players? The latter ones have no problems with any changes ingame and have likely adapted before the change hits holodeck. The first ones are the ones failing stfs and complaining without even thinking of change.
5 DPS players with no good defenses every console to DPS have no issues with the current content/Shield draining
Because they have so much team DPS the borg are destroyed before they can shoot back !
Put that same player and ship in a pug...and most likely he goes Boom a lot , However he might be intelligent and reconfigure his ship just to pug............Some DPS players only did a copy and paste of there builds and don't know how to make a PUG build
nothing special about most DPS players except they know where to get someone elses build at and how to copy it
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If all I cared about was how realistic the simulation is, I would play Desert Bus.
Instead, I'd rather not be a statistic that a story lieutenant rattles off to the captain: "Captain, scanners have found 26 ships in that debris field. The residual energy signatures look like plasma fire... from a Borg cube." I want to be the captain who hears that and says "RAMPAGING BORG? NOT ON MY WATCH, LIEUTENANT SWEETCHEEKS!" and deploys the plot armor and saves the day and gets a maneuver named after him or something. You know, the captain who actually lives and gets to DO STUFF. Because this is a video game.
As it is, Borg shields drains (Borg Shield Neutralizer as well as Tachyon Beam) don't have an adequate level of counterplay. This is due to the raw shield stripping numbers (probably around 5k per second), and the fact that Borg abilities have no CD. Try using Hazard Emitters as soon as a Borg Shield Neutralizer hits you. It will be cleared, and then the Borg will repeatedly attempt to reapply it, and as soon as HE fades, the Shield Neutralizer will stick, and you'll have no shields for 30 seconds. Of course, you didn't have any shields during those 15 seconds anyway because of the Borg's Tachyon Beam, so now you have lots of hull-tanking practice. You'll be fine!
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Borg aren't limited to elite STFs. They also appear in Advanced STFs, Normal STFs, and even some ordinary story episodes. Go play a few random story episodes with space combat, then try the Fluid Dynamics episode. You may observe that, while you can coast through many episodes without even balancing your shield facings, the Borg will balance your shield facings for you by making them all zero within two seconds of entering combat. At that point, you will find out whether you're set up for hull tanking - which, if you're trying to remain sort of true to the lore, you won't be, because Everyone Has Shields.
Well playing around with shields with power insulator ratings in the 125 plus points theres none to very little performance difference between a mk xii common resilient [plas] shied and a Ultra Rare mk XIV fleet res b shield in Borg stfs.
Advice with upgrading shields is save your dil and r&d materials and don't bother. TB laughes at whatever mark of shield you are running anyway.
My toons use a variety of shields
Borg, Nukara, elite fleet, dyson and a single toon used the common one. Fancy shields mean squat with current shield drains.
Common shield was used on a rom engineer. Changed him to a VR version of the same shield and the white common version was better ?
As I see it, the issue isn't with shield drains per say... it's the spamming of them. I can generally counter one or two Borg ships in STFs hitting me with shield drains, it's when three or more start doing it simultaneously that it's essentially impossible.
Way back when Cryptic had issues with the CoT mages in City of Heroes mass spamming roots/holds/stuns to the point of absurdity.Nice to see they learned from their mistakes....
Man, I miss that game...and yeah, I do remember the perma-root madness of the Circle of Thorn magi. As to learning from their mistakes, I wonder if there are any coh devs still working for cryptic.
nothing special about most DPS players except they know where to get someone elses build at and how to copy it
No, there's one additional criteria - basic piloting skills.
Not talking about good piloting skills, but basic things like not putting FAW and attack patterns on Spacebar, having proper buff cycles, not hanging out at 9.9km to fight, Weapon Power at 100, that sort of thing.
The new tachyon beams made shield heals and other shield buffs obsolete (in those missions). Why bother slotting TSS if you're going to get drained in 2 seconds and have to wait 43 more seconds to heal again?
The only counter here is the same one that works on everything else: increase your DPS. Killing everything faster means you're less likely to get killed.
I don't like that being the only solution, but then I don't make the rules.
No. That would just make science skills again useless. The solution would be to adjust the spheres drain in that case, and even then, most people are doing ISA runs fine even with the boost.
Not really. Like I mentioned the main problem is not that their TB is OP. It's when you can min/max your PI skill and not see a noticeable reduction of shield drain. And a slight buff to the effect of PI would still do nothing to prevent 3 or more TB attacks against you, which would still be devastating. I'm referring specifically to a one of one situation. Captain skills are investments which require trade offs, and if choose to max out my PI in the skill tree in addition to gear buffs then I should have a decided advantage in dealing with a single TB attack from a single enemy. After all, PI is a science skill as well and if maxed my shields are still fully drained with one attack doesn't that equally make that skill useless?
The TB drain is perfect in my opinion. It's effective, it's dangerous, it's devastating in multiple numbers. And for a player who chose to forego skill points in PI to invest elsewhere and rely soley on gear should be at a disadvantage to a degree. But to the player with high investment in PI skill they should be awarded an better advantage.
Not really. Like I mentioned the main problem is not that their TB is OP. It's when you can min/max your PI skill and not see a noticeable reduction of shield drain. And a slight buff to the effect of PI would still do nothing to prevent 3 or more TB attacks against you, which would still be devastating. I'm referring specifically to a one of one situation. Captain skills are investments which require trade offs, and if choose to max out my PI in the skill tree in addition to gear buffs then I should have a decided advantage in dealing with a single TB attack from a single enemy. After all, PI is a science skill as well and if maxed my shields are still fully drained with one attack doesn't that equally make that skill useless?
The TB drain is perfect in my opinion. It's effective, it's dangerous, it's devastating in multiple numbers. And for a player who chose to forego skill points in PI to invest elsewhere and rely soley on gear should be at a disadvantage to a degree. But to the player with high investment in PI skill they should be awarded an better advantage.
I think you explained this rather well. I'm annoyed when my normal ~80 does nothing about it, when I add on effectively 4 sci consoles and go to 200, I expect to have a noticeable impact on it. It's simply a frustrating mechanic when it's impossible to stop the shield drain and there are 100k base damage torpedos flying at your hull that are invisible and will one-shot you unless your shields up.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
And the debate between those who actually draw aggro, and those who don't drags on...
The changes would be fine if the spheres didn't target just one ship.
Funny thing. I do draw aggro and I still don't care because I'm never without shields. Why? Because I have *gasp* shield healing powers! I subscribe to the notion that the best offense is an impenetrable defense. Within reason. I still need to kill people with something other than old age.
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
Comments
lucho80 tested it and says it helps fight any drain.
Yes, good point. Even if I get my shields drained a bit, I often don't bother going for an immediate heal. Just pop a BFI (with the doff for AllDmg resistance), or a PH even, or an EF, if you have it.
Derp.
Brian TRIBBLE. I was thinking of something else. You're right
It is not that simple the problem is not the drain it is the counter, resistance, and spam that is broken not the drain. If you want a fix fix what is broke not what players dont like. While i understand poeple are having a hard time adapting to new tactics. I would even go as far as maybe borg frain needs to be tonned down, or tunned because of the spam.
Tank captain and comedian!
I kind of like the notion that the BORG are good at draining shields.......like in the tv shows.......
IMO people coomplained that the borg were too weak and did not pose a threat any more.....
They still do not.....but this is a step in the right direction IMO
And I do get shot at ....
How come so many players mistake scrubs for dps-players? The latter ones have no problems with any changes ingame and have likely adapted before the change hits holodeck. The first ones are the ones failing stfs and complaining without even thinking of change.
Free Tibet!
But peoples likes to turrets!
5 DPS players with no good defenses every console to DPS have no issues with the current content/Shield draining
Because they have so much team DPS the borg are destroyed before they can shoot back !
Put that same player and ship in a pug...and most likely he goes Boom a lot , However he might be intelligent and reconfigure his ship just to pug............Some DPS players only did a copy and paste of there builds and don't know how to make a PUG build
nothing special about most DPS players except they know where to get someone elses build at and how to copy it
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Turret boat FTW!
/10char
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yet there was that complaint the other day in dps10k that a CCA comprised of peeps from there has failed?
Pssst, perhaps I was reading in wrong chat and it was local instead of dps10000. lol
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You're not Turretboating right if it's not Rainbow Turreting!
But of course!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Instead, I'd rather not be a statistic that a story lieutenant rattles off to the captain: "Captain, scanners have found 26 ships in that debris field. The residual energy signatures look like plasma fire... from a Borg cube." I want to be the captain who hears that and says "RAMPAGING BORG? NOT ON MY WATCH, LIEUTENANT SWEETCHEEKS!" and deploys the plot armor and saves the day and gets a maneuver named after him or something. You know, the captain who actually lives and gets to DO STUFF. Because this is a video game.
As it is, Borg shields drains (Borg Shield Neutralizer as well as Tachyon Beam) don't have an adequate level of counterplay. This is due to the raw shield stripping numbers (probably around 5k per second), and the fact that Borg abilities have no CD. Try using Hazard Emitters as soon as a Borg Shield Neutralizer hits you. It will be cleared, and then the Borg will repeatedly attempt to reapply it, and as soon as HE fades, the Shield Neutralizer will stick, and you'll have no shields for 30 seconds. Of course, you didn't have any shields during those 15 seconds anyway because of the Borg's Tachyon Beam, so now you have lots of hull-tanking practice. You'll be fine!
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Borg aren't limited to elite STFs. They also appear in Advanced STFs, Normal STFs, and even some ordinary story episodes. Go play a few random story episodes with space combat, then try the Fluid Dynamics episode. You may observe that, while you can coast through many episodes without even balancing your shield facings, the Borg will balance your shield facings for you by making them all zero within two seconds of entering combat. At that point, you will find out whether you're set up for hull tanking - which, if you're trying to remain sort of true to the lore, you won't be, because Everyone Has Shields.
Advice with upgrading shields is save your dil and r&d materials and don't bother. TB laughes at whatever mark of shield you are running anyway.
My toons use a variety of shields
Borg, Nukara, elite fleet, dyson and a single toon used the common one. Fancy shields mean squat with current shield drains.
Common shield was used on a rom engineer. Changed him to a VR version of the same shield and the white common version was better ?
Man, I miss that game...and yeah, I do remember the perma-root madness of the Circle of Thorn magi. As to learning from their mistakes, I wonder if there are any coh devs still working for cryptic.
No, there's one additional criteria - basic piloting skills.
Not talking about good piloting skills, but basic things like not putting FAW and attack patterns on Spacebar, having proper buff cycles, not hanging out at 9.9km to fight, Weapon Power at 100, that sort of thing.
Or how about you not call it a "nerf", but instead call it what this really is--which is "a needed correction to an ability 'suped up' far too much"?
The only counter here is the same one that works on everything else: increase your DPS. Killing everything faster means you're less likely to get killed.
I don't like that being the only solution, but then I don't make the rules.
Not really. Like I mentioned the main problem is not that their TB is OP. It's when you can min/max your PI skill and not see a noticeable reduction of shield drain. And a slight buff to the effect of PI would still do nothing to prevent 3 or more TB attacks against you, which would still be devastating. I'm referring specifically to a one of one situation. Captain skills are investments which require trade offs, and if choose to max out my PI in the skill tree in addition to gear buffs then I should have a decided advantage in dealing with a single TB attack from a single enemy. After all, PI is a science skill as well and if maxed my shields are still fully drained with one attack doesn't that equally make that skill useless?
The TB drain is perfect in my opinion. It's effective, it's dangerous, it's devastating in multiple numbers. And for a player who chose to forego skill points in PI to invest elsewhere and rely soley on gear should be at a disadvantage to a degree. But to the player with high investment in PI skill they should be awarded an better advantage.
I think you explained this rather well. I'm annoyed when my normal ~80 does nothing about it, when I add on effectively 4 sci consoles and go to 200, I expect to have a noticeable impact on it. It's simply a frustrating mechanic when it's impossible to stop the shield drain and there are 100k base damage torpedos flying at your hull that are invisible and will one-shot you unless your shields up.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
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The changes would be fine if the spheres didn't target just one ship.
Funny thing. I do draw aggro and I still don't care because I'm never without shields. Why? Because I have *gasp* shield healing powers! I subscribe to the notion that the best offense is an impenetrable defense. Within reason. I still need to kill people with something other than old age.
Let the stupid suffer