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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Confused over vaudwaur polaron ground weapons

stuart1965stuart1965 Member Posts: 691 Arc User
edited March 2015 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I have the vaudwaur dual pistols and the minigun and am abit confused by them.
They are powerful now as i upgraded them to level 14.
The confusion is when fired, they both eject what looks like cartridge casings, which i would normally associate with conventional guns.
Polaron is a type of laser if my knowledge is correct, and this would not normally use types of cartridges like bullets. anyone have a clue on this????
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'm just gonna wait until someone suggests that they are "mini-power cartridges that deplete themselves to supply the power for each shot" or somesuch.

    I think they were gonna go with conventional (read kinetic/physical) damage but went with the trusty old weirdo standby, polaron!
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  • bloodyrizbloodyriz Member Posts: 1,756 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Ever read the Hammers Slammers by David Drake? Powergun ammo.
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  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bloodyriz wrote: »
    Ever read the Hammers Slammers by David Drake? Powergun ammo.

    I have actually read some of his other stuff...I like his style for Military Scifi.
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  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bloodyriz wrote: »
    Ever read the Hammers Slammers by David Drake? Powergun ammo.
    I did, a while back (in fact, there's even a pen-and-paper RPG setting based on it)... and given the nature of Vaadwaur tech, the idea of their pistols and rifles having an ammo mechanic similar to powerguns isn't one I'd dismiss out of hand.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The entire faction is an homage to WW1 and 2 Germany.. from the trench coats and gas-masks to the trenches they fight in to the 'super-soldier master race' to the leader himself(who I'll avoid spoiling their true nature) to even the naming of their ships. (If you thought Laser-Dinosaurs was dumb, we've basically been fighting Space-TRIBBLE through most of the Delta Quadrant.)

    I believe the original blog about them mentioned something about the ejected casings being a kind of depleted power cell or some such. Obviously, it's just a "treknobable" excuse to give them an interesting theme(not knocking the weapons; I love them personally).

    (Also, the minigun might be a little overpowered because there is no spool/charge-up time on its secondary fire - unlike every other assault minigun out there.)
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    I have the vaudwaur dual pistols and the minigun and am abit confused by them.
    They are powerful now as i upgraded them to level 14.
    The confusion is when fired, they both eject what looks like cartridge casings, which i would normally associate with conventional guns.
    Polaron is a type of laser if my knowledge is correct, and this would not normally use types of cartridges like bullets. anyone have a clue on this????

    I don't think Star Trek has used "laser" technology in its weapons in ages except to point out a race that's not particularly well-developed. Polarons are referred to as an energy type but "energy" is a very vague physics principle that can cover quite a wide range of interactions. Polarons are a real-world particle that I'm not even going to try to pretend to understand, but they're definitely not concentrated light.

    The ejected shells don't necessarily have to be the ammunition system. In Mass Effect 2 and 3, the ejected clips were the heat sinks for the guns, not the spent ammunition casings, just as an example.
    The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They're probably concentrated bolts of polaron energy that are stored inside of a cartridge. That cartridge probably has a primer that is activated by the gun itself, discharging the bolt of polaron energy down the barrel. The spent cartridge is then ejected to clear the barrel for a new one.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,009 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    The entire faction is an homage to WW1 and 2 Germany.. from the trench coats and gas-masks to the trenches they fight in to the 'super-soldier master race' to the leader himself(who I'll avoid spoiling their true nature) to even the naming of their ships. (If you thought Laser-Dinosaurs was dumb, we've basically been fighting Space-TRIBBLE through most of the Delta Quadrant.)

    I believe the original blog about them mentioned something about the ejected casings being a kind of depleted power cell or some such. Obviously, it's just a "treknobable" excuse to give them an interesting theme(not knocking the weapons; I love them personally).

    (Also, the minigun might be a little overpowered because there is no spool/charge-up time on its secondary fire - unlike every other assault minigun out there.)

    This is probably your answer. It's just a visual design of their race (something Cryptic entirely made up, there's nothing in the show to reinforce it) and people get wet panties for machine guns and conventional ammunition, so they delivered.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    I have the vaudwaur dual pistols and the minigun and am abit confused by them.
    They are powerful now as i upgraded them to level 14.
    The confusion is when fired, they both eject what looks like cartridge casings, which i would normally associate with conventional guns.
    Polaron is a type of laser if my knowledge is correct, and this would not normally use types of cartridges like bullets. anyone have a clue on this????
    While the word "polaron" is apparently a real scientific concept (check it on wikipedia if you're interested), it doesn't look like it has anything to do with lasers.

    In Star Trek the word is used simply as a sciencey-sounding name for a ray gun as is typical in the genre. It doesn't really say anything about how it works.

    The cartridge casings are there because it looks cool. I suppose they could be explained in-story as fuel containers or batteries or whatever. Better question is, why don't you have to reload them? :D
  • theredcomettheredcomet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Star trek and science have as much to as science and scientology.

    Gold Pressed Latinum is obviously just dropping the P from Platinum which is as expensive as Gold today.

    Sub atomic bacteria in one of the TNG episodes where riker ends up a BoP captain is mind numbingly stupid.

    Star trek is full of junk science... they got the idea of warp vaguely right though.
    (Not that i mind... it is fiction)
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,693 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Cryptic even winks at the junk science in some of the story and Dyson sphere missions -- you repair things by choosing the correct nonsense technobabble sentence, which might be "kick the puppyfier" or "grimble the sassafrass"
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot
    thunderfoot#5163
         Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    No matter how it gets explained, the Vaadwaur Ground weapons still look good in game. And the cartridge ejection thing gives them a visual cue which is unique to them. I have the one weapon which is a mission reward and I like it.
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  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    from the trench coats
    Those coats are Jedi robes. See for yourself. And thanks to the Tholians, you have lightsabers too.
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  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    theredcomet wrote: »
    Sub atomic bacteria in one of the TNG episodes where riker ends up a BoP captain is mind numbingly stupid.
    I remember that episode, though not for the 'subatomic bacteria'. You did, however, remind me of the macrovirus Voyager ran into...
    lindaleff wrote: »
    Those coats are Jedi robes. See for yourself. And thanks to the Tholians, you have lightsabers too.
    That's a nice shot; did you submit it to the uniform screenshot thread? If you didn't, you should; it's worthy.
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lindaleff wrote: »
    Those coats are Jedi robes. See for yourself. And thanks to the Tholians, you have lightsabers too.

    lol is that the Catian version of Kraftwerk?
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    (Also, the minigun might be a little overpowered because there is no spool/charge-up time on its secondary fire - unlike every other assault minigun out there.)
    Wait... what ? Seriously ? Finally ? I'm going to buy this minigun ASAP, I've wanted a weapon that fired like a minigun/machine gun, and not a burst mode AR for a long time, and besides the Romulan weapon, the choice is rather limited.


    EDIT : re-read "secondary fire". Suddenly much less interested.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,689 Community Moderator
    edited March 2015
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    The ejected shells don't necessarily have to be the ammunition system. In Mass Effect 2 and 3, the ejected clips were the heat sinks for the guns, not the spent ammunition casings, just as an example.

    I think this is the most viable answer. The "shell casings" do not fly off after every bolt like the shotgun and TR-116, and come out glowing red for a moment, which could indicate they're hot. So... I think its safe to say that these casings are actually spent heat sinks. Vaadwaur tech is different from Federation. Starfleet can regulate the heat generated by their weapons, and maybe even harness it somehow. The Vaadwaur... probably can't with their ground weapons and have to rely on the ejectable Heat Sink to keep their weapons functioning in heavy combat.
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  • lordfuzunlordfuzun Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think this is the most viable answer. The "shell casings" do not fly off after every bolt like the shotgun and TR-116, and come out glowing red for a moment, which could indicate they're hot. So... I think its safe to say that these casings are actually spent heat sinks. Vaadwaur tech is different from Federation. Starfleet can regulate the heat generated by their weapons, and maybe even harness it somehow. The Vaadwaur... probably can't with their ground weapons and have to rely on the ejectable Heat Sink to keep their weapons functioning in heavy combat.

    Just because they are glowing hot does'nt discount the possibility the casings are power cells. It seems that 24-25th century power cells are alot like our battery technology. Draw too much energy out of them too quickly and they will begin to get hot. And they may fail in a catastrophic way (aa phaser on overload).
  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So, each shot consumes one battery, and then that battery gets ejected?
    shadowfirefly00 wrote: »
    That's a nice shot; did you submit it to the uniform screenshot thread? If you didn't, you should; it's worthy.
    I did a search, but I could not find any such thread.
    welcome2earf wrote: »
    lol is that the Catian version of Kraftwerk?
    I have never heard of Kraftwerk. Sorry, but I have no clue what that is.
    I completed a 2-man CSE, ISE, and KASE, Optionals included. And I soloed Winter Invasion.
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  • artemisa0kartemisa0k Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    not really sure of real reason, if I was going to make one up...

    Each cartridge contains a gas which is carried along the polaron wave and on impact disperses across the target destabilizing shields and weakening armor.

    The gas inside the cartridges is inert until exposed to the polaron however a side effect is that excess heat is generated during the reaction, the solution is to use the ejectable cartridge thereby preventing premature overheating of the weapon.
  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    warpangel wrote: »
    While the word "polaron" is apparently a real scientific concept (check it on wikipedia if you're interested), it doesn't look like it has anything to do with lasers.

    In Star Trek the word is used simply as a sciencey-sounding name for a ray gun as is typical in the genre. It doesn't really say anything about how it works.

    The cartridge casings are there because it looks cool. I suppose they could be explained in-story as fuel containers or batteries or whatever. Better question is, why don't you have to reload them? :D


    Boy, you young kids! *"tsks" repeatedly*.

    Back in the bad old days of "Television" the only time a character ever ran out of ammunition was to build tension.. and... it was ALWAYS the good guy that had an ammo issue (Lone Ranger anyone?)

    This is fanatasy! You NEVER reload the gun unless there is a plot reason for it!

    *yea I know, players should be slipping in power packs or what not during a long fight... just think of the rate of fire.....

    *character slides the carry frame into line with the target, and thumbs the electric drive on the barrel assembly* The star ship following me.. carries my ammo supply man! 30 rounds per second... I go through a bit...
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  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Tension? That is....IF those of us who actually have shot a real gun, and know how a real gun works had not already stormed out of the theatre by the time the tension part happened.

    The movie is set in 1880, and the main character is carrying a Colt Single Action Army. The main character fires 20 rounds without ever needing to reload. Granted, I do know and understand the writers have probably never even SEEN a real gun in their lives, but there is no excuse for that level of non-realistic foolery. Guns need ammo, and they need to be reloaded. And in the case of revolvers, the vast majority could only carry 6 rounds before needing to be reloaded. Get with the program, MGM.




    /end rant
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